Mcscruff
Smash Ace
if fox takes out the blaster, hes basically asking for a knee.
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Sheik, FTW?
- Thread starter NJzFinest
- Start date
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Shiek players have to say Fox/Shiek isn't even.
They need something to "cry" about, since they don't even need to really try against anyother character.
Fox can't be chain grabbed, so
Fox>>>>>>Shiek
Right?
KeepSpeedN
Smash Ace
because he's the fastest character in the game.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
LMAO. Marth is the best character, if we are talking about a perfect game, how do you imply on getting through the range of his sword if he doesn't let you since he'll be playing a perfect game?
lol, all of you sit here and think about that for a minute. please.
lol, all of you sit here and think about that for a minute. please.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
This has got to be the most interesting arguement I've witnessed lol. Many good points going on here...glad I took a look at this topic, was deciding to make my secondary falcon or shiek or falco, by the way, I main marth.
Mcscruff
Smash Ace
yeah... i guess you have a point. i can **** a fox that is at my level, but what i mean is I have trouble against noucles or speedN level foxes...
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
lmao you and your ad hominem arguments, you don't even bring up any valid points.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
So...no one is going to bother answering me?
lol, he was merely stating a common fact about Sheik players. If you read at least a few of his other posts, you would find that he does bring up a good argument with valid points >_> Then again, it's pretty hypocritical for you to say he doesn't bring valid points.
Go with Sheik or Falco. Use whichever one fits you since they both ****, or you can try picking up both.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
many thanks Njzfinest, I was afraid of going with falco as falco ditto's scare me
I know marth can chain throw to tipper the space animals but the secondary I choose, I want to be able to stand up to dittos with them. I can use falcon well and tech chase great with him..ledgeteching consistly with him too but shiek seems to have a big advantage with combos..falco..well..I'm just really technical with him.
I know marth can chain throw to tipper the space animals but the secondary I choose, I want to be able to stand up to dittos with them. I can use falcon well and tech chase great with him..ledgeteching consistly with him too but shiek seems to have a big advantage with combos..falco..well..I'm just really technical with him.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
how do you figure mr.c?
Playing a perfect game with marth to me is hitting your opponent with your range and a disjointed hitbox against what you all say sheik falco fox can beat him. wrong. if marth doesn't allow them in his sword range, which he won't, he will win without being hit. no matter how perfect any of the others play. his range and strength with his range defeats any other competitors. that is why ken is top tier. plz realize that marth will win any of those match ups if he is playing a "perfect game" because nobody can get inside of him.
Playing a perfect game with marth to me is hitting your opponent with your range and a disjointed hitbox against what you all say sheik falco fox can beat him. wrong. if marth doesn't allow them in his sword range, which he won't, he will win without being hit. no matter how perfect any of the others play. his range and strength with his range defeats any other competitors. that is why ken is top tier. plz realize that marth will win any of those match ups if he is playing a "perfect game" because nobody can get inside of him.
untrue, marths aerials/smash attacks have to much lag for him "never to get hit"
your also forgeting spamable projectiles.
ken isnt "top tier" because he plays marth, ken is top tier because he is a amazing smash player.
but then if marth was so great and ken is top tier with him
why is pc's falco, kdj's sheik, fox, m2ks sheik, fox all beating him?
your also forgeting spamable projectiles.
ken isnt "top tier" because he plays marth, ken is top tier because he is a amazing smash player.
but then if marth was so great and ken is top tier with him
why is pc's falco, kdj's sheik, fox, m2ks sheik, fox all beating him?
Ares726
Smash Ace
Dude, don't even. If you talk about perfect games you lose every time. If you think your perfect Marth beats my perfect Sheik, you're wrong. If you try to hit me, I'll powershield it. If I try to hit you, you'll powershield it. Perfect games are stupid to even talk about.
But, to answer your question about getting through Marth's range I'll say this: needle cancel->grab->dthrow->dsmash->_____(depends on damage).
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Your right about that him never being able to get hit, but ken is top tier because he is amazing with marth and fox, but if it weren't for him playing marth we wouldn't be talking about marth so much, it'd be like peach or cf. as far as all the pros beating him, people such as azen and chudat said that he has been having a bad year, but i guess no johns, but marth has too much going for him to be the worst of the four, he definetly top 3, if anything falco or fox is lowest.
ares, thats what we are talking about here, and about the powershielding, u'll just get grabbed lol. anyways, we are discussing who is the best as far as playing a perfect game.
ares, thats what we are talking about here, and about the powershielding, u'll just get grabbed lol. anyways, we are discussing who is the best as far as playing a perfect game.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Um, it's not a "fact." Do you know what fact means?
"Shiek players have to say Fox/Shiek isn't even."
Oh, so that's a fact.
"They need something to "cry" about, since they don't even need to really try against anyother character."
I guess that's one, too.
lollerskates, how is it hypocritical for me to say what I said? Seriously, do not use words you heard in your 11th grade English class if you don't fully understand them...
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
I used to think Sheik was the best for a long time, but now I'm starting to think it's Marth. I main Sheik and I picked her because her only bad matchup was ICs, everyone else she ***** or she was even with. However, Marth's only bad matchup is Sheik, and it's a lot more doable than Sheik vs ICs. Plus Azen somehow beats Sheiks, so it must be possible.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Mr. C mains Marth.
Of courses he's gonna make character johns.
Of courses he's gonna make character johns.
Drephen
Smash Master
Yes and Yes
Because you never make sense....lol
Ew...weak, at least finish with a decent insult. Step it up man.
Pikaville
Pikaville returns 10 years later.
With regards to the Marth being the best as far a playing a perfect game is concerned.A fox with perfect tech skill would be unstoppable.(so ive come to know)I thought Sheik has a pseudo chain grab against fox and falco if you predict their tech and chase.Actually everyone could pseudo chain grab if you could predict their techs everytime sorry about that.
Mcscruff
Smash Ace
but, they are facts. most matches below high tier are either counters,an easy match, or an even match(excluding ICs). and top tier matches are pretty much even.
no matchups in smash are fact, theyre all opinion, and opinions aren't easy to change. people shouldn't even bother arguing because everyone is going to be biased. You can say (this character) beats (this character) and it may be true, but in reality, it doesnt ****ing matter, the best player is going to win (excluding low tiers) Maybe fox has an advantage on sheik at certain skill levels, maybe it's even at others. It's not worth arguing over. I've never lost to a fox and thought "****, I only lost because he plays fox." That's not how it works. If you're that upset about how your character does against another, spend a week and learn another character to counterpick.
Whether or not sheik is the best is debatable, on paper she's probably the best, but after YEARS of being on top, she's not doing so well. Why that is is up for debate, but people really need to stop whining about Sheik. She's not ****** up the rankings, and she's not swiping all the tournament wins. In fact, she almost never wins the tournaments, so it must be the players who aren't even in position to win tournaments who are complaining about her.
Grow up, get over your character johns, learn new characters if it's that bad, move on.
Whether or not sheik is the best is debatable, on paper she's probably the best, but after YEARS of being on top, she's not doing so well. Why that is is up for debate, but people really need to stop whining about Sheik. She's not ****** up the rankings, and she's not swiping all the tournament wins. In fact, she almost never wins the tournaments, so it must be the players who aren't even in position to win tournaments who are complaining about her.
Grow up, get over your character johns, learn new characters if it's that bad, move on.
Mcscruff
Smash Ace
plainrkk, are you saying matchups dont mean anything? so you must think that sheik is even with ICs, and shes even with marth and ganon too?
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
I dont main Fox though.
I counterpick with Fox against like Falcon or Peach(maybe) and Marth.
And many others.
All 4 characters are even.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
No, he's saying "You can say (this character) beats (this character) and it may be true, but in reality, it doesnt ****ing matter, the best player is going to win (excluding low tiers)."
Plz read
Art?
Smash Journeyman
in my OPINION, if m2k's fox could play m2k's sheik, fox would win. if kdj's fox could play kdj's sheik, fox would win (i used these two players as examples because they both are extremely good with both sheik and fox).
another (and perhaps better) example would be pc chris, who is just as deadly with fox and sheik, none of whom he mains, whereas the above listed players main fox. pc chris' fox vs his sheik, fox would probably win.
with two equally skilled players (hence why i chose "self-dittos"), fox will always have that slight advantage over sheik. this applies to falco as well.
but just like people have been saying, it all depends on who the overall better player is.
i am also of the opinion that if isai tried his absolute best, his sheik would leave several gaping orifices in everyone he comes across, which inspires me to continue to main sheik, 'cause i think sheik has the potential to truly be the best character, at least 'til some fox player with flawless infinite drillshines comes along, then sheik is fcuksed.
please don't flame me for my opinions. if you wanna argue at least do it respectfully.
another (and perhaps better) example would be pc chris, who is just as deadly with fox and sheik, none of whom he mains, whereas the above listed players main fox. pc chris' fox vs his sheik, fox would probably win.
with two equally skilled players (hence why i chose "self-dittos"), fox will always have that slight advantage over sheik. this applies to falco as well.
but just like people have been saying, it all depends on who the overall better player is.
i am also of the opinion that if isai tried his absolute best, his sheik would leave several gaping orifices in everyone he comes across, which inspires me to continue to main sheik, 'cause i think sheik has the potential to truly be the best character, at least 'til some fox player with flawless infinite drillshines comes along, then sheik is fcuksed.
please don't flame me for my opinions. if you wanna argue at least do it respectfully.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
This "the better player will win" BS is getting really annoying.
Are you all ********?
When someone says something about a certain matchup, it's assumimg both players are of equall skill.
Are you all ********?
When someone says something about a certain matchup, it's assumimg both players are of equall skill.
1) PC mains Fox.
2) Any character can escape drill-shine infinites. You can DI both the drill and the shine to make Fox mess up. It's not very difficult.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Also, not all of a certain smashers characters are equally as good as any given character they play.
P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
since when do fox players complain about sheik >>?
Hank McCoy
Smash Ace
3) I don't know about M2K, but I have played DJ's Fox and Sheik many, many times and I think his Sheik would do just fine.
I think a lot of pros would agree that the best characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, maybe Peach) are all pretty much even at the highest levels of play.
Hank McCoy
Smash Ace
its good, but his fox is better, cuz its fox.
they are closer to even when comparing matchups with low tier chars, but fox and falco are still a notch above the other 3.
oh and zoso sry pc mains falco, he just is good with fox.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Marth and Sheik are even with Fox and Falco.
Anyone who thinks differnt mains Shiek.
Anyone who thinks differnt mains Shiek.
You don't know what you're talking about.