Shbawd

[Ronin686]

I can do a SHBAWD about 5% of the time... do you guys use the c-stick or control stick for it?

 

[SmashMac]

C-stick. Right after you jump during your rising animation is when you press the bair so that by the time you're falling down you can waveland. It takes some practice for the timing but once you get it down you'll be set.

 

[sweetooth]

I use the C-stick, it helps if you're runnig foward and need to do one or whatever. But I try to c-stick all arials. for some reason though, i'll find myself using the controller stick for some arials.

 

[St. Viers]

I use the control stick, and get it almost all the time...it would probably be easier with the c-stick, but I never use it except for d-smash and tilted F-smashes. (bad habit, I know)

 

[sweetooth]

its wierd because i kinda go back and forth. i guess its just where my fingers are at the tome

 

[Kashakunaki]

Ronin asked the exact question I wanted to. I guess I'm just not quick enough with the C-Stick to do it that way. I mean, I do all my aerials with the C-Stick, practically. Sometimes I instinctively use the control stick, but that is beside the point. I seem to only be able to SHBAWD with the control stick.

So... Just practice?

 

[Khaine]

i have an insane preferance for the control stick and A.

no idea why.

i only ever use it for Bairs though, any other arial i do with the C stick

-x-

 

[Ronin686]

I've perfected bairing right after I jump, but i dont always get the wavedash in..

And I can only do it to the left lol.

I can barely ever bair right after I jump to the right.

 

[Klowne]

Whenever i need to get an airial out the moment i jump, i use A. I can't get my thumb from the X button all the way down to the C-stick in the time of the character's starting jump frames. Maybe this is your problem too, and if so, i'd suggest trying it with A.

 

[chlor0form]

I use the control stick. I'd understand if the shbawd would be easier to waveland using the c-stick, but I can't. I guess that's just practice right? Anyways, for me, it's control stick for life. >=d

 

[St. Viers]

yeah, as I have like 90%+ success rate with them using control stick, I don't see why I have to change

yeah, and does anyone know why exactly it seem harder to do them in one direction than the other? I think it is just not practicing enough, but with SHBAWDs, I never mess up one direction, but sometimes the other, and I almost never can get a canceled up B when facing to the left...

 

[Dyse]

I use the c-stick AND the A button. It took lots of practice, but I can do it without fail. It's smexy when you BAWL to a ledge grab.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

DON'T use the C-STICK. It's foolish to think it's faster cuz it's not and rising aerials with the c-stick are not crisp. Slide from x/y to A and there you go.....rising aerial...meaning it auto-cancels by the time you hit the ground and you can waveland. Same with up-air, just be gentle with the control stick and even neutral.

 

[D4rkchocolate]

I use the control stick..... im trying to get into the habit of c-stickin it but its hard. lol

*thinking* Does Bobmoney use c-stick?

 

[Kashakunaki]

Lol. I'm not sure about Bob Money. I just do Fairs and Bairs quicker with the A button. However, I Uair and Dair with C-Stick and nothing but.

 

[chu12ch]

(About the c-stick not being faster) I use the c-stick since my thumb is always either on that or the b button... makes doing rising aerials after the jump almost instantaneous (im pretty sure thats faster than having to slide ur finger to another position)... short hop with index finger on x then cstick left/right...

And i cant upb cancel facing left either... only right...

 

[Ronin686]

I can SHBAWD now about 99% of the time going left and right, and I use the C-stick.

 

[Hitman_Yosumi1881]

Lol. I'm not sure about Bob Money. I just do Fairs and Bairs quicker with the A button. However, I Uair and Dair with C-Stick and nothing but.

i do the exact same thing....i just find trying to do shbawd lot easier with control stick+A....maybe it has something to do with me going into training mode and practicing it for awhile (seeing how c-stick isnt used in it )

 

[Dogysamich]

Theoretically, it should be easier to do with control stick + a, unless you

1) keep your thumb on or around the c-stick (i doubt most people do that)

AND

2) you jump with the control stick (doubt most people do this, too).

___

Now I say theoretically cause well, the distance from y/x to a is shorter than the c-stick.

But well, if you're comfortable with moving down to the c-stick, why change it? I can see either one of em working fine.

 

[Bullet Bill]

just a quick question. Are these with shorthops?

 

[Hitman_Yosumi1881]

just a quick question. Are these with shorthops?

well.....yes of course hence the name SHBAWD (Short-Hop Back Aerial WaveDash)

the idea is to use ur Bair while holding the direction ur going followed by a WD....im no master @ this by no means but i know it can be useful

 

[MuBa]

Doc's B-air is one of his most effective attacks in his arsenal b/c of the sheer fact that it has a LOT of priority and a disjointed hitbox.

So learning how to SHBAWD is essential to Doc's game.

 

[Bullet Bill]

how does anyone manage to do this with the c stick? There just isn't enough time to get there after pressing X or Y.

 

[St. Viers]

the idea is to use ur Bair while holding the direction ur going followed by a WD....im no master @ this by no means but i know it can be useful

you can actually jump forward, use b-air, and then WD too, if you either have really quick fingers (as to not mess up momentum by holding back too long) or can do this with a C-stick.

 

[ArcNatural]

I think a very important tactic to this is to learn to go to neutral after practically every move you do. I tend to do sh bair (with A or c-stick, whichever I'm reacting to atm) and then put control stick to neutral, then wavedash. This is extremely helpful as you can then wavedash both ways, and it helps you maintain fast finger placement so you can decide to do something else. I used to have a terrible time sh dair pillaring with falco because I would hold down between shines for unknown reasons (since I used c-stick to dair) and I would miss the fast fall, once I changed to letting go after moves it became much easier. Now I do this with every character I use.

Basically the faster you can do the aerial and go to neutral if your doing combos and such, the faster you can be random and have the availability for more options.

 

[DrGrimReaper]

how does anyone manage to do this with the c stick? There just isn't enough time to get there after pressing X or Y. -Bullet Bill

(About the c-stick not being faster) I use the c-stick since my thumb is always either on that or the b button... makes doing rising aerials after the jump almost instantaneous (im pretty sure thats faster than having to slide ur finger to another position)... short hop with index finger on x then cstick left/right... --chu12ch

What Chu12ch is describing here seems god-awful uncomfortable, placing your index finger on the front of the controller. I can't think of a single video game I have ever played in my whole entire life where my index finger was up in front.

--Regardless, this technique is the best as it will allow you to DI your SHBAWD in any direction you want as opposed to using the control stick where you automatically would start to influence your short-hop behind you.

Hope this clears things up a bit. :D

 

[Kanzaki]

A lot of Fox's and Falco's use that hand position to pillar and what not. I believe it's called "claw" grip or what ever.

 

[Hylian]

DON'T use the C-STICK. It's foolish to think it's faster cuz it's not and rising aerials with the c-stick are not crisp. Slide from x/y to A and there you go.....rising aerial...meaning it auto-cancels by the time you hit the ground and you can waveland. Same with up-air, just be gentle with the control stick and even neutral.

What are you talking about? The c-stick makes all attacks come out 2 frames faster then the A button meaning..yes..it is faster then A. Not crisp? Describe crisp? I bet you money I can do this 100% and make it look crisp everytime with the C-stick. And your telling people to UAIR with the C-stick? Wtf? Don't listen to this person he doesn't know what he is talking about and is obviously biased for some reason. Use whatever you can do it with. Simple as that.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Someone already noted that it's faster with the C-STICK if you keep your thumb near or on the C-STICK at all times, my assumption was that few people do this, however if you claw I guess that's fine.

BTW, people who claw are much less fluid than people who don't, and no this doesn't just mean tech savvy. This is a fact, and those who claw HAVE to accept it.

As for the up-airs.......I said be gentle with the CONTROL STICK, note this is the stick that makes you move. I never said one should use the c-stick, however falling aerials are much easier with the c-stick.

Now let's consider the typical hand position when playing smash, thumb on A button. Are you telling me that you can get, with the typical hand position, a difference of 1/30'th of a second between going from ( y or x ) to A vs. c-stick? If so, then that only breaks even on the 2 frame difference, if you can do it faster than please by all means contain your way of play, but I highly doubt anybody else would want to deal with that miniscule difference.



P.S. Remember, I'm not following you around the boards, it's actually the other way around.

 

[chu12ch]

How can it not be "fluid", the jump and the attack come out near simultaneously... If that isn't "fluid" i don't understand ur definition of fluid...

And about the claw, i've been using it for the past like 6 years, it's just second nature to me now...

(and why shouldnt you uair with the c-stick, if that applies only to those who dont use claw grips, disregard this part)

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Is there anyone as fluid as bombsoldier? Case closed.

 

[chu12ch]

Objection!!! You didnt address a thing from my post...

You might as well have said, "Is there anything as fluid as a liquid? Case closed."

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Actually there's something more fluid than liquid, in some ways. It's called super-critical fluid and occurs at extremely high temperatures for various different substances.

Anyway, I guess you could be as fluid, but the claw seems somewhat unnatural even if it has become natural to you. As far as I have seen, which admittedly may not be that much, bombsoldier has played with the most fluidity, not necessarily raw tech-skill.

 

[chu12ch]

So theoretically, why can't the claw be as "fluid" as a normal grip... It can definitely be as fast, and faster, but what does the hand grip have to do with how "fluid" the person plays...

 

[chlor0form]

man... what way do you hold your controller, teh lulz

 

[chu12ch]

instead of using my thumb to push x (or y for some people), i keep my index finger on it which leaves my thumb above the c-stick or on the a/b buttons, so attacking the first frame after the jump is possible...

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Aight well I haven't seen the claw being used as effectively as other methods, is what I'm trying to say, but then again maybe I haven't seen enough.

I also have a somewhat unconventional controller style, open-hand closed-hand.

 

[chu12ch]

Wow... This is utterly amazing!!! Dreamcloud finally accepting somebody else's opinion and not forcing his ideas upon others...

I have now joined an elite few on these boards...

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Well the acceptance is pending, when I see a truly fluid clawer then I can confirm your argument, which I think I may eventually.

 

[chu12ch]

One more thing... What exactly do you mean by fluidity, is it how fast the person can move from one move to the other?