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Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

IGuessItsOver

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Just fans saying that adding Indie characters lose the Nintendo Legendary status of characters going against each other. Especially Shantae.
That's ridiculous. Shantae was born in a Nintendo console and sll her games have been consistently good. Meanwhile Isaac is from a classic cult franchise that hasn't gotten any new entries, and for Geno, it's mostly bandwagoning.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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I'm not hating on Shantae but the GBA Golden Sun games were pushed as one of the premiere titles for the GBA and both sold well over a million copies which is a big deal, Nintendo wanted Camelot to make a third game immediately but some of the old staff left and the new staff were inexperienced in comparison. The only thing kind of against Isaac is the dormancy of the franchise but I feel like it's going to come back one day especially with how big the outcry for a new game is getting. But for indie reps Shantae definitely has the most support from me and I'd love to see her in =) she's even in my sig
 
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zferolie

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Ah so that 1 picture was proven fake. Some of the choices seemed solid but Agnis seemed like an odd choice when Sakurai knows how big Geno is. Only way I see Geno not making it in is if SE says no.

I know I am late on this, but I honestly cannot see Bandana Dee as playable... it just... I don't know, he feels too boring. He's a minion with a spear. Yeah he's popular, but I don't seem him as a base roster kinda guy. DLC i see it more likely, but when you are hyping the original release of the game he just doesn't seem like a great fit. As for Skull kid I feel like while he is popular, he was only a villain in 1 game. I can see him being a boss in story mode, but not playable in the base roster. Isaac I think has a lot of popularity, and could make it in, its just if Nintendo and Camelot want to bring back the series. Its possible they can use Smash as a gauge.

Isaac: Venus Adept Isaac: Venus Adept Cool sig pictute you got there, All seem like Nice choices... Man I have pretty much given up on ever see Jill from Drill dozer again... that was such a good game. Would be amazing to see her in as a playable, but at this point her returning as an AT would be nice.

Well guys, its basically the waiting game again.
 

EarlTamm

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Anyway, and I mentioned it a couple pages back, but what do you guys think of the possibility of the newcomer reveal order being decided by the characters first appearance? The exception would be the Inkling, but there reveal was the announcment of the game and they were kind of the most obvious choice, so it makes sense why they would be an exception to the rule. So far we have Ridley, originating on Aug 6, 1986, Simon, originating on Sep 26 1986, and K.Rool, originating on Nov 21 1994.
 

zferolie

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Anyway, and I mentioned it a couple pages back, but what do you guys think of the possibility of the newcomer reveal order being decided by the characters first appearance? The exception would be the Inkling, but there reveal was the announcment of the game and they were kind of the most obvious choice, so it makes sense why they would be an exception to the rule. So far we have Ridley, originating on Aug 6, 1986, Simon, originating on Sep 26 1986, and K.Rool, originating on Nov 21 1994.
If that was the case then we wouldn't have any retro characters, which is odd since we have gotten one every game and Sakurai seems to like to include those
 

loozer2

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Anyway, and I mentioned it a couple pages back, but what do you guys think of the possibility of the newcomer reveal order being decided by the characters first appearance? The exception would be the Inkling, but there reveal was the announcment of the game and they were kind of the most obvious choice, so it makes sense why they would be an exception to the rule. So far we have Ridley, originating on Aug 6, 1986, Simon, originating on Sep 26 1986, and K.Rool, originating on Nov 21 1994.
I wouldn't count on that just yet. We haven't gotten enough new fighters that I'd rule out coincidence, but if the trend continues in the next direct I'd believe it.
 

EarlTamm

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If that was the case then we wouldn't have any retro characters, which is odd since we have gotten one every game and Sakurai seems to like to include those
Well, this Smash is not really abiding by what Sakurai wants, more so what the fans want. So far every choice in the game seems to be following that idea, and with the list of newcomers being shorter, I would not be surprised if there is no retro pick.

Edit: Well, I was bored and decided to place a lot of the top contenders in a list to see a possible order. Keep in mind a few of these characters were pulled from the Consolidation Poll. Please inform me if i got my dates wrong or if you think someone should be listed here but is not for whatever reason.

Ridley - August 6, 1986
Simon - September 26, 1986
K.Rool - November 21, 1994
Rayman - September 1, 1995
Geno - March 9, 1996
Bandana Dee - March 21, 1996
Banjo & Kazooie - June 29, 1998
Skull Kid - November 21, 1998
Paper Mario - August 11, 2000
Issac - August 1, 2001
Sora - March 28, 2002
Shantae - June 2, 2002
Magalor - October 24, 2011

Double edit: Forgot to link the poll. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469
 
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AngrySun88

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Also, did any of you already see this:
Fake. The models look off and it comes across as a sloppy Photoshop job, and it's piggybacking off of other leaks with the inclusion of Isabelle and Skull Kid, so I'm not buying it. I'm pretty sure that the Skull Kid model is from the Smash 4 trophy.

And a random Square character over Geno, one of the most requested characters since Brawl? Not buying it.
 
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IGuessItsOver

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I think the next character reveal will be the "wtf" addition. We've always had one of those in every game (Jigglypuff in 64, G&W in Melee, Rob in Brawl and Wii Fit Trainer in SSB4) so i don't see it being different this time.
 
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zferolie

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I think the next character reveal will be the "wtf" addition. We've always had one of those in every game (Jigglypuff in 64, G&W in Melee, Rob in Brawl and Wii Fit Trainer in SSB4) so i don't see it being different this time.
Retro/WTF sometimes go hand in hand (G+W and ROB come to mind), so I am banking on that happening this game. I am torn between Hikari and Donbe(Shin Onigashima), Lip (Panel De Pon), Ayumi(Famicom detective), Mach Rider (Mach Rider) or Prince Sable(I won't even try to spell that one). With Takumaru still a trophy, I see those 5 as the logical choices, rated in order of who I want the most. Though the most likely one would probably be Mach Rider or Ayumi, as Sakurai has stated he wanted them in smash in the past. Lip also has a great chance due to her item being long in the series, and really is the only item in this game tied to a game series with no character playable.

Mach Rider removed from Melee due to not sure how to make a moveset work for them, but with Duck hunt taking from all light gun games, they(since we aren't sure if they are male or female), could take from a few classic Nintendo Racing games. Heck Maybe even having them use Excite bike somehow, like a side B sending out a mini biker to attack.

Ayumi was removed as Sakurai was worried that it was a Japanese only game, but with the world more connected then before, this could not be as big of an issue. Plus with Duck Hunt a fighting style might be better for him to design now then back in Melee.

Lip could represent the Puzzle game genre as a whole, as we don't have that in this game. She will use her Lip's stick item of course, and her smash attacks could add flowers to the heads, but she could also drop blocks, use tetris stuff, or other flower like abilities.

Though I myself Want Hikari and Donbe the most, due to they look cool, the game is unique, and could have a cool fighting style, I know their chances are slim. Still really want them.
 

AngrySun88

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Shantae could technically fit that WTF/retro checklist as well, depending on your definition of retro. Her first game was on the Gameboy Color in 2002 and I still see people who are absolutely convinced that she won't be included.

Although some of the choices listed above would obviously fit the definition better, but the thing is it's impossible to predict Sakurai.
 

EarlTamm

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I mean, can't Simon kinda be seen as retro? Maybe not, as his series is still going, but he is still pretty big NES character.
 

DOTBHDD

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Sorry to keep bringing this up but I have to say that the #ShantaeforSmash love WayForward has been getting under the 60K Tweet is so amazing to see. Shantae has gone a far way and the silence from WayForward has me to believe Shantae is 100% in Smash in some way.
 

SimonferSmash

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So how many of you here feel that her moveset would utilize Risky's pirate gear as well as having her transformation mechanic still being the main selling point or just have her use abilities from her titles sans Shantae and the Pirate's Curse?

Cause I feel a compromise could be feasible.
 

DOTBHDD

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So how many of you here feel that her moveset would utilize Risky's pirate gear as well as having her transformation mechanic still being the main selling point or just have her use abilities from her titles sans Shantae and the Pirate's Curse?

Cause I feel a compromise could be feasible.
I always thought her Smash attacks would be transformations with her dancing being the build up. Her specials would be her magic. I think her fire makes up a huge portion of who Shantae is and just the magic in general. I think a few air moves could be the pirate gear.
 

SimonferSmash

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I always thought her Smash attacks would be transformations with her dancing being the build up. Her specials would be her magic. I think her fire makes up a huge portion of who Shantae is and just the magic in general. I think a few air moves could be the pirate gear.
Not sure about her smash attacks solely being her transformations since I feel that wouldn't make Shantae truly unique and bring something to the Smash series that hasn't been seen before.

But then again who really knows what they decide to do if she made the cut.
 
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IGuessItsOver

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I mean, can't Simon kinda be seen as retro? Maybe not, as his series is still going, but he is still pretty big NES character.
I see Simon more as the father of the metroidvania genre that's been so popular recently.
So how many of you here feel that her moveset would utilize Risky's pirate gear as well as having her transformation mechanic still being the main selling point or just have her use abilities from her titles sans Shantae and the Pirate's Curse?

Cause I feel a compromise could be feasible.
IMO her transformations should be part of her final smash and for her normal moveset they should implement her Pirate's Curse gear.
 

loozer2

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Sorry to keep bringing this up but I have to say that the #ShantaeforSmash love WayForward has been getting under the 60K Tweet is so amazing to see. Shantae has gone a far way and the silence from WayForward has me to believe Shantae is 100% in Smash in some way.
Amazing? To be honest it makes me kind of facepalm at the community. Every tweet they put out now just gets bombarded with questions and spam about smash that it borderlines harassment. It might even seriously annoy them. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they just had the word "smash" blacklisted so that tweets didn't show up mentioning them. For real, I think people should give them some space to breath and stop directing tweets about smash at them. There's nothing wrong with showing support but I think people take it a bit too far.
 
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EarlTamm

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Amazing? To be honest it makes me kind of facepalm at the community. Every tweet they put out now just gets bombarded with questions and spam about smash that it borderlines harassment. It might even seriously annoy them. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they just had the word "smash" blacklisted so that tweets didn't show up mentioning them. For real, I think people should give them some space to breath and stop directing tweets about smash at them. There's nothing wrong with showing support but I think people take it a bit too far.
I doubt they have blacklisted everyone, and it really is only a result of how hard Wayforward themselves supported Shantae for Smash back in 4. And a lot of those tweets are not asking questions about Smash, but voicing there support for her getting in.
 

loozer2

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I just feel like a tweet they put out celebrating 60k followers or a twitter thread where they like and respond to a piece of fanart is not the appropriate place to be spamming #shantaeforsmash. It seems rude, in my opinion.
 

EarlTamm

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I just feel like a tweet they put out celebrating 60k followers or a twitter thread where they like and respond to a piece of fanart is not the appropriate place to be spamming #shantaeforsmash. It seems rude, in my opinion.
The post is specifically celebrating the fans, so I think the fans are kinda aloud to voice what they support and what they hope Shantae will be able to accomplish in the future.
 

M00NFIRE94

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I just feel like a tweet they put out celebrating 60k followers or a twitter thread where they like and respond to a piece of fanart is not the appropriate place to be spamming #shantaeforsmash. It seems rude, in my opinion.
A lot may spam the same word but it really could be worse. You should've seen the tweets when people demanded Bayonetta for Smash. Those were the pure definition of toxic.
 
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EarlTamm

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A lot may spam the same word but it really could be worse. You should've seen the tweets when people demanded Bayonetta for Smash. Those were the pure definition of toxic.
Yeah. A lot of the Shantae for Smash tweets are just that, "Shantae for Smash." I don't see many people being out right rude and demanding stuff or being mean about anything, and most people just seem confused about the silence.
 
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IGuessItsOver

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A lot may spam the same word but it really could be worse. You should've seen the tweets when people demanded Bayonetta for Smash. Those were the pure definition of toxic.
Or when people posted that 9/11 edit with Waluigi on Sakurai's profile lol
 

IGuessItsOver

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What do these fake leaks have to do with Shantae?
What else is there to talk about that hasn't already been discussed? The silence from WF, Shantae not being in other indie crossovers, her not being shown alongside Shovel Knight, the ultimate slumber party, the movesets, the stages, the music that they could choose from her games, etc.
 
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EarlTamm

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What do these fake leaks have to do with Shantae?
Honestly, I think at a certain point a thread becomes so big that it starts absorbing general discussion. Issac and Geno seem to be very big victims of this and with the much more speculative nature of this thread, it attracts that sort of discussion.
 

Wademan94

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That's a really cool idea for a moveset - I think maybe a little too intricate on the transformation details (I think each transformation would probably have 1 attack if this was implemented), but the fact that every move or transformation references something from across the Shantae series is a very Sakurai thing to do.

I would say her neutral A would be similar to G&W's, where it does minimal knockback and locks you in, since spamming the hair whip is something you would do in the games.

Also, what design would you have for her? Pirates Curse or Half Genie Hero?
Thank you very much. Yeah I guess I did get carried away with describing the forms, I just wanted to show the utility of each, though I think it would give people more reason to use her transformations by giving her two moves (one attack, one special) and would make the transformations a little less predictable to opponents. I’m starting to agree with the neutral A though, also I went into detail on one of the previous pages before my moveset if you want to see my exact thoughts, but I do want to see the HGH portrait art design for her appearance.

Name me one legal stage where spider Shantae can actually use her webbing.

I just don't like the idea of tranforming into modes that only give you one or two attacks. That's fine for a platformer, not so much in a fighting game where it just telegraphs your intentions.
The webbing would also attach her to the underside of soft platforms and quickly pull her onto top of them or grab onto the edges of solid platforms if she’s directly below.

That’s why I was trying to have it so she’d be able to quickly change into and out of forms with little penalty and having the forms last several seconds at a time anyway. I think if people get the hang with her, you’d be able to switch between forms without missing a beat
 

AngrySun88

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You could at least discuss them in the threads that are specifically for those characters. Those fake leaks have nothing to do with Shantae.
 

LunarLiv

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Why are the mouths so weird in that previous "leak" pic? Ken's mouth looks super odd.

Also that Banjo pic really really looks like promo art. WHAT KAZOOIE LOOKIN AT? WHAT HAS SHE SEEN?

I'm not sure whether to be interested in these leaks because of speculation, or starting to get grumpy because pretty much every photo leak is a bad, kinda blurry/out of focus/poor camera leak of something just on a coloured background, and that's kinda it. Grumble grumble.

Back on to Shantae tho, I'm glad there's support for her out there, and that she's growing in popularity! It's good, even if it does get a little inappropriate or annoying sometimes. More support for my girl is something I like <3

Also the theory that they're revealing newcomers in chronological order is pretty neat! Considering they're trying to put stages in that order, and all star mode, it could make sense!
 
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EarlTamm

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Here's a Shantae question, how would the different color alts affect the transformations color's? Same goes for possible costumes.
 

Wademan94

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Here's a Shantae question, how would the different color alts affect the transformations color's? Same goes for possible costumes.
There’s a high possibility of that happening considering Pokémon Trainer’s palettes. Some color swaps might be more subtle than others, though I could certainly see more radical changes here and there. Let’s say the transformations are based off the 4 original ones in their HGH designs like in my moveset idea. One palette swap idea would be the colors from the GBC original (ex. Brown for monkey and spider). Maybe some enemy colors like the Spider could have Bonelegs and Scorpgal (or Naga) colors, Harpy with Archer colors, etc.

the Nega Shantae palette would have the colors for the monkey and elephant transformations from her boss fight and apply those colors to the spider and harpy
 
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Teeb147

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Name me one legal stage where spider Shantae can actually use her webbing.

I just don't like the idea of tranforming into modes that only give you one or two attacks. That's fine for a platformer, not so much in a fighting game where it just telegraphs your intentions.
We can't expect transformations to have elaborte movesets. 2 or 3 specialties would be fine and it could even automateicall revert back to shantae after using an attack. It doesn't have to, and it could be manual, and if it's fast like pokemon trainer switches, then there's no problem.

Well, I think we lost that a long time ago. The roster is certainly not comprised of "legendary" characters and Issac is certainly not one of them in the grand scheme of things. That is not an insult mind you, I think the same of Geno despite my full support of him and knowing full well his history. While I think SMRPG did a lot of important stuff, it's often not recognized for it, not really making it any form of legendary.
mario rpg not legendary? Can I point you to the wii shop description?

"
Set in the Mushroom Kingdom and featuring its cast of well-known characters, this adventure RPG [...] Along the way, they'll gain experience and grow more powerful, while also meeting new characters whose unique abilities will be needed to take on Smithy and his gang. Striking a perfect balance of traditional RPG elements and the action-packed game play Mario is famous for, it's easy to see why this title has earned "legendary" status!
"

;)
 

Luminario

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Name me one legal stage where spider Shantae can actually use her webbing.

I just don't like the idea of tranforming into modes that only give you one or two attacks. That's fine for a platformer, not so much in a fighting game where it just telegraphs your intentions.
It could work depending on how they go about doing it. Monkey could have the combo potential of Sheik's fair with great speed and a tiny hitbox, Elephant causes heavy shield damage with a Bowser Bomb ground pound, Spider's great at long distance projectile pestering, and Harpy's got fantastic edgeguarding skills. I kinda agree on the Spider Web criticizm though, how about instead of simply grabbing onto platforms above it's a Brawl ZSS up B type attack that pulls opponents down from straight above?
 
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EarlTamm

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mario rpg not legendary? Can I point you to the wii shop description?

"
Set in the Mushroom Kingdom and featuring its cast of well-known characters, this adventure RPG [...] Along the way, they'll gain experience and grow more powerful, while also meeting new characters whose unique abilities will be needed to take on Smithy and his gang. Striking a perfect balance of traditional RPG elements and the action-packed game play Mario is famous for, it's easy to see why this title has earned "legendary" status!
"
I pretty much said it was not legendary because it's never recognized for all the big things it have done. We know why Super Mario Bros is legendary. We know why Legend of Zelda is legendary. I feel like i have explained why SMRPG is important about a half dozen times and then some. It's never recognized for it's awesome stuff by the gaming public, and that saddens me. How can I call something legendary if most people barley recognize it's importance. I am glad the Wii seems to know, though. And hey, if Geno gets in, perhaps more people realize just how important that game is.
 

Teeb147

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I pretty much said it was not legendary because it's never recognized for all the big things it have done. We know why Super Mario Bros is legendary. We know why Legend of Zelda is legendary. I feel like i have explained why SMRPG is important about a half dozen times and then some. It's never recognized for it's awesome stuff by the gaming public, and that saddens me. How can I call something legendary if most people barley recognize it's importance. I am glad the Wii seems to know, though. And hey, if Geno gets in, perhaps more people realize just how important that game is.
Mario RPG was way ahead of its time and redefined how so many things could be in RPGs (and other games). It doesn't matter if some people don't look into it, it has an important part in gaming history, and having it played it myself back then, it was crazy good (even if on the short side), and some great stuff in it still doesn't show up that often in games these days, it's definitely a legendary game, at least historically. It's just too bad it was just 1 game, and that's probably what makes it less known for people.
And, not to mention that it and Chrono Trigger had amazing attention to detail and lots was hand-made and hand-picked, unlike all the generic stuff we see elsewhere. Also, not many rpgs were funny (& didn't take themselves fully seriously), I think just Earthbound besides smrpg, that I know of.

Shantae on the other hand is going strong to this day, so that's one thing the franchise has going :)
 
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