Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Shinuto]

It's probably a bad idea to read too much into what game developers do or don't tweet... buuuuut I agree that it does seem pretty uncharacteristic for WayForward to stay so silent. This is the same company that literally tweeted promotional artwork for their character as soon as the Smash Ballot was announced. And if I were Phil Spencer, I wouldn't want to have to explain to Nintendo why my twitter response about B&K in Smash is within the terms of the NDA. Nintendo doesn't **** around with NDAs.

But really, we don't know. It's encouraging at least.


This is an interesting point. I'll take it one step further and consider just indie characters. There may very well be more than 2 spots reserved for third parties in general, but indies will definitely only have a spot or two. (I think there will probably be at least one, I think two is very possible, I think 3+ is extremely unlikely.)

So working off the theory that Shantae is primarily competing against other indies for 1 reserved spot or maybe 2 if we're lucky, who is her real competition? Here are the main threats, off the top of my head. Let me know if I missed anyone notable.

1. Shovel Knight. I don't think much needs to be said. He is very popular and requested, plus his game is really popular, it's a masterpiece, and it's still pretty recent. No shortage of moveset potential. His main disadvantage is that he only has one game, for which he's not even playable in the DLC. Also, while he is popular, it's not like he's a household name or anything. Which brings us to the next on the list...

2. Steve from Minecraft. Actually, Steve might be the number one threat. Whether Minecraft is still indie is debatable, but it started life that way, so Steve could get counted as an indie rep. Steve had some presence in online ballot polls and discussion during the Smash Ballot, but not that much. However, Minecraft is huge. He may have gotten more votes than online polling would suggest. More importantly, if Sakurai values raw name recognition above all else, then it's all over, because Minecraft has every other indie beat by miles. This is the most likely way that everyone in this thread ends up super salty about the final roster - me included. I think Steve in Smash would be really dumb. Minecraft should have a stage, not a character.

The biggest obstacles for Steve are that his indie status is highly questionable at this point (and he could certainly never be called a "Nindie"), and Nintendo would have to negotiate with Microsoft to get him in the game. The more I think about this one though, the more it seems like such a Sakurai thing to do. Let's move on.

3. Undertale rep. This is a distant third. Undertale was a big hit, and I see Sans for Smash mentioned a lot. However, it seems to be universally a joke. I don't know why, since I haven't played Undertale yet, but I gather there's some good reason he wouldn't fit as a playable character in Smash. Maybe some other Undertale character would though.

...

And this is the awkward moment while writing this post when I realized that, frankly, very few indie characters really stand a chance at getting a spot in Smash. There are a handful I can at least mention, but I don't think any of them have much of a shot.

Spoiler

Quote from Cave Story. Great game, but only one game, and it was a long time ago. He's well-known, but not enough to compensate for how long ago his game came out. Plus it's been released on Nintendo consoles, but not really a close history with Nintendo.

Isaac from Binding of Isaac. It had an early release on Nintendo Switch at least, but I really don't see this one happening.

Meat Boy. He's in a similar situation as Quote, minus the moveset potential and the appearances on Nintendo consoles (until very recently).

SteamWorld rep. This series has a lot of Nintendo releases, but it doesn't have enough recognition, or a clear choice for a main character to make it into Smash.

Lilac from Freedom Planet. Doesn't have nearly enough recognition to make it into Smash.

Owlboy. Only recently came to Nintendo, not THAT well-known, and from what I understand, he doesn't even attack in his game, so I'm not sure how this would work.

Yooka-laylee. Only one game that received a meh reception.

Commander Video. He got a trophy in Smash, so that's pretty cool, right? I don't see the moveset potential here, and nobody is asking for this character. Commander Video isn't even that well-known anymore.


Beyond that, I don't know... Gunman Clive, I guess? Dillon's Rolling Western?

So, IF Nintendo and/or Sakurai decide that there should be some form of indie representation in the cast, then it is really just 2-3 characters competing for 1-2 spots.

If there is no reserved indie slot, then Shantae is competing with all the other third parties, probably for somewhere in the ballpark of 3-5 new third party spots. An incomplete list of the main competitors would be Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Shovel Knight, Rayman, Bomber Man, Doom Guy, Dark Souls rep, Castlevania rep, Steve, and Sora. Really though, anything is possible.

Man like that's exactly what someone would say if they were trying to hide the fact Shantae is being worked into Smash as we SPEAK!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well Smash already has a precedent for 3rd party females who have attracted controversy for the way the dress, transform into different animals and use their hair to attack.



Ironically enough, Shantae in spite of being indie is actually an older character than Bayonetta, getting her start on the Game Boy Color.

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Beyond that, I don't know... Gunman Clive, I guess? Dillon's Rolling Western?

The only other relevant Indie character I can think of is Hollow Knight. But since the game is taking so long to port and it's now late in smash development, I doubt he'd be making it in. A shame as he's my second indie pick after Shantae, I'd love see both in, even if that's unrealistic.

 

[Shinuto]

What would her reveal trailer be like?

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

A bunch of veteran's playing keep away from Donkey Kong with a banana, as DK gets angry, when suddenly a shape blurs past snatching the banana and returning it to DK. He's surprised to see a little monkey, before it transforms into Shantae on a splash card:

Shantae
dances through the danger!
​

Cue footage of her game-play.

 

[Deleted member]

It's probably a bad idea to read too much into what game developers do or don't tweet... buuuuut I agree that it does seem pretty uncharacteristic for WayForward to stay so silent. This is the same company that literally tweeted promotional artwork for their character as soon as the Smash Ballot was announced. And if I were Phil Spencer, I wouldn't want to have to explain to Nintendo why my twitter response about B&K in Smash is within the terms of the NDA. Nintendo doesn't **** around with NDAs.

Matt's silence is the weirdest, hes been retweeting Japanese fan art for the past month, (makes me think the Shantae push in japan is Working). I try not to read in to it... its just odd

But as for the Indie characters, You missed a pretty popular Japanese indie Character, Inti-Creates' Gunvolt,
hes got a few things going for him, All of his games have launched on Nintendo Consoles, a short Anime OVA was exclusive to the 3ds for a time, Being based in Japan Sakurai might be more aware of him. His solo games were popular enough to warrant 2 separate limited physical releases, one on 3DS and one on switch.
There might be more Indie characters from japan, GV is the only one I'm aware of.

Shovel Knight, I think is our largest competitor, when ever the "indie Smash newcomer" conversation comes up Shovel Knight and Shantae are the 2 brought up. I've had debates with close friends on who has a better chance, teh general consensus is Both would make fantastic additions, Its really a Tie.

i don't think Steve has a much of a chance. If there's gonna be a Microsoft rep, its Banjo & Kazooie. While yes Mine Craft is on a handful of Nintendo Consoles, its more associated with PC and Xbox for obvious reasons, B&K Still have the Nintendo Fan's hearts

 

[Shinuto]

A bunch of veteran's playing keep away from Donkey Kong with a banana, as DK gets angry, when suddenly a shape blurs past snatching the banana and returning it to DK. He's surprised to see a little monkey, before it transforms into Shantae on a splash card:

Shantae
dances through the danger!
​

Cue footage of her game-play.

imagine instead she's fighting off Tinkerbats and then everything goes dark, sh turns around and reacts with absolute horror upon seeing the Smash logo..the Inkling looked shocked, I want to see Shantae look terrified.

 

[Deleted member]

imagine instead she's fighting off Tinkerbats and then everything goes dark, sh turns around and reacts with absolute horror upon seeing the Smash logo..the Inkling looked shocked, I want to see Shantae look terrified.

Be honest. Shantae would probably just see the flaming Ball of death with a gang of shadowy figures in front of it and just say
"oh boogers"

 

[Shinuto]

Be honest. Shantae would probably just see the flaming Ball of death with a gang of shadowy figures in front of it and just say
"oh boogers"

Her face melts like the Gestapo officer in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

[conTAgi0n]

I knew I was forgetting at least a couple important indie characters.

Hollow Knight. I think this guy looks really cool, and I've been looking forward to his game coming out on Switch for ages. I don't think he has a realistic chance at Smash though. His game still hasn't made it to Nintendo, and he doesn't have the star power to make up for that.

Gunvolt. Japanese indies are harder for me to gauge. For Gunvolt to make it, A) he would have to be a really popular request in Japan (since he isn't at all a popular request outside of Japan), and B) Sakurai and Nintendo would have to prioritize the preferences of their Japanese audience far above those of their Western audiences. My hunch is that at least one of those conditions does not hold, but I don't know enough to evaluate either with certainty. Are there any other Japanese indies that might compete for a spot? I can't think of any, but then again I missed Gunvolt the first time around.

Hyper Light Drifter. He seems like a notable indie, but I never see him discussed or hyped as a potential newcomer. There doesn't really seem to be much demand for him to join Smash.

Juan from Guacamelee. Here's another one nobody seems to bring up for some reason. I don't think he has a chance but he's at least worth mentioning. His game was pretty successful and popular, but he only has one. He doesn't have the relationship with Nintendo or the cachet to compete for a spot in Smash.

i don't think Steve has a much of a chance. If there's gonna be a Microsoft rep, its Banjo & Kazooie. While yes Mine Craft is on a handful of Nintendo Consoles, its more associated with PC and Xbox for obvious reasons, B&K Still have the Nintendo Fan's hearts

Hmmmm... Yeah actually, I was considering him through the indie lens, but the fact of the matter is that regardless of his previous status, Steve is owned by Microsoft now, so he would definitely have to be considered as a Microsoft rep. So he would be competing for a dedicated spot for a Microsoft rep, not an indie spot. He would almost certainly lose out to B&K.

Well Smash already has a precedent for 3rd party females who have attracted controversy for the way the dress, transform into different animals and use their hair to attack.



Ironically enough, Shantae in spite of being indie is actually an older character than Bayonetta, getting her start on the Game Boy Color.

This was one of my favorite things about Bayonetta's inclusion, it was so vindicating for Shantae supporters as well. Almost every reason that people gave for being so smugly confident that Shantae had NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER applied equally to Bayonetta, if not more so. All of those ****ty arguments are now completely disproven. Nowadays even naysayers won't claim that Shantae is impossible anymore.


~


I'm not really sure what to expect from a Shantae reveal trailer. There are so many different ways it could go. Maybe it will be in the style of the trailer we saw for the Inklings, in which case it will probably look a lot like what Shinuto suggested. Or maybe now that the game is revealed, they will do more character trailers in the style of Smash 4, in which case it could be practically anything.

One idea I had that I thought would be fun would be something like this:

A couple small characters like Kirby and Pikachu are battling (or just hanging out), and then monkey bullet breezes through them and the screen fades to black. Then a couple characters with multiple jumps like Pit and Meta Knight are shown jumping higher and higher, when a harpy flies up between them and passes them by, as the screen fades to black again. Then a couple heavy characters, like Bowser and K. Rool Donkey Kong are shown battling or taunting next to each other, and an elephant slams to the ground between them, sending them both flying. The camera focuses in on the elephant, which then transforms back into Shantae, who strikes a pose, winks, and exclaims, "I'm RET-2-GO!" Then Shantae's splash card, and then gameplay.

The harpy transformation would work best for that trailer, but they could do something analogous with the spider or the tinkerbat transformations if they used one of those instead.

 

[Shinuto]

People were like "She's too inappropriately DRESSED for Smash!"

I can't believe Im actually glad to hear Wayforward/Matt Bozon is being silent on Twitter, as small as it is, it does possibly point to something going on.

 

[Deleted member]

People were like "She's too inappropriately DRESSED for Smash!"

I can't believe Im actually glad to hear Wayforward/Matt Bozon is being silent on Twitter, as small as it is, it does possibly point to something going on.

I actually had an acquaintance of mine recently say Shantae's dancing is too inappropriate for smash.
I just looked at him and said, "Bayonetta" it shut him up real quick.

 

[Shinuto]

I actually had an acquaintance of mine recently say Shantae's dancing is too inappropriate for smash.
I just looked at him and said, "Bayonetta" it shut him up real quick.

When she got revealed, I was desperately hoping she'd have her "Come on!" taunt, where she gets on the ground and puts her legs wide open. it'd be perfect for matches.

 

[Deleted member]

Expecting another wave of free and clueless bashing on poor Shantae during tomorrow's RTC, again...

 

[Shinuto]

Expecting another wave of free and clueless bashing on poor Shantae during tomorrow's RTC, again...

RTC?

 

[Deleted member]

RTC?

I think its the Rate Their Chances (RTC) thread.

edit. Yup Shantae is scheduled for tomorrow in the "Rate Their Chances" thread.

 

[Shinuto]

I just want Shantae confirmed cause of all the Shantae and Bayonetta dance offs fanart.

 

[conTAgi0n]

It'll be nice if someone defends her there, but I'm not really too bothered about the RTC thread. I don't think many people read that thread outside of those who post there, whose minds are already mostly made up. So its influence is limited, and there's not even a ballot going anyway.

I expect @Final Smash Gamer is right that most posters will underrate her over in that thread, but I don't think it will be as bad as it was during the ballot. Cloud + Bayonetta really did change people's perceptions about what is possible.

I guess I might take a look there and make a post on Shantae's behalf tomorrow, but probably not. Quantifying any character's odds of making it as a percentage seems kind of crazy to me. No one has anywhere near enough information to express their confidence in such fine-grained terms.

 

[Shinuto]

It'll be nice if someone defends her there, but I'm not really too bothered about the RTC thread. I don't think many people read that thread outside of those who post there, whose minds are already mostly made up. So its influence is limited, and there's not even a ballot going anyway.

I expect @Final Smash Gamer is right that most posters will underrate her over in that thread, but I don't think it will be as bad as it was during the ballot. Cloud + Bayonetta really did change people's perceptions about what is possible.

I guess I might take a look there and make a post on Shantae's behalf tomorrow, but probably not. Quantifying any character's odds of making it as a percentage seems kind of crazy to me. No one has anywhere near enough information to express their confidence in such fine-grained terms.

I just hope people understand that characters like Shovel Knight, who really only have their popularity going for them in place having no real history or legacy or even more than one game going for them dont have as high a chance as they think said characters do.

 

[Deleted member]

I just hope people understand that characters like Shovel Knight, who really only have their popularity going for them in place having no real history or legacy or even more than one game going for them dont have as high a chance as they think said characters do.

The question is what's more important to Sakurai in a Smash 3rd party newcomer?Popularity or Legacy. Obviously having both is ideal.
Mega Man, Sonic, Pac Man, Ryu, and Cloud all had both a strong legacy in gaming as a whole and being popular characters.
The one exception is Bayonetta. Who unfortunately potentially set a precedent winning the ballot purely on popularity.
Now being the ballot winner could be an '"exception to the rule" and have no bearing on future rosters.

Now the precedent of 3rd parties having both a strong legacy and being popular makes the Shantae V Shovel Knight such a hard call.
What is more important to Sakurai? Popularity(SK) or Legacy(Shantae)

 

[Shinuto]

The question is what's more important to Sakurai in a Smash 3rd party newcomer?Popularity or Legacy. Obviously having both is ideal.
Mega Man, Sonic, Pac Man, Ryu, and Cloud all had both a strong legacy in gaming as a whole and being popular characters.
The one exception is Bayonetta. Who unfortunately potentially set a precedent winning the ballot purely on popularity.
Now being the ballot winner could be an '"exception to the rule" and have no bearing on future rosters.

Now the precedent of 3rd parties having both a strong legacy and being popular makes the Shantae V Shovel Knight such a hard call.
What is more important to Sakurai? Popularity(SK) or Legacy(Shantae)

Yes, to pick the more popular one means you can logically get more appeal, but the legacy appeals more to what the characters mean not only in terms of he series/franchise, but to gaming and well Nintendo as a whole while not being as wide as an appeal amongst fans.
You could pull in the most popular but then one could get complaints of just following trends an not respecting those which have been there longer and had more history in the environment. However, going for someone with less popularity could come off as not going with something that has the potential to become a legacy due to its inherent popularity.

Personally just from what I've seen in his actions and read in interviews and what he has said in the past I think that Sakurai has shown he values legacy moreso than popularity. Bayonetta was a special situation as she got in specifically through something designed AROUND being fanservice, that which being the Smash Ballot. So it kinda depends on if the two are put into Smash via a ballot or through the decisions made on the team's and Sakurai's own terms. If its through the results of the previous ballot SK might have more votes, but Shantae may not be too far behind and thus her other factors may help in making more of a reason to put her in.
If its through another ballot than SK might win due to that focusing more on fan demand.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Cloud's inclusion fits with the theory that raw star power and impact on gaming history matter most, and that a relationship with Nintendo is merely optional.

However, Bayonetta's inclusion suggests that a close relationship with Nintendo can be enough to get you into the game, even if you aren't a major gaming icon.

Where popularity fits into this isn't clear to me. Cloud is much more famous than Bayonetta, so shouldn't he be considered more popular? On the other hand, Bayonetta probably got a lot more votes in the Smash Ballot, and maybe that's all that matters.


Now let's look at how this applies to Shantae and Shovel Knight.

Shovel Knight is roughly analogous to Cloud. Obviously he's not nearly as famous, but he is very well-known for an indie character. If we had reliable sales figures for both characters that we could compare, I would guess that Shovel Knight would be significantly ahead of Shantae by that metric.

Shantae is roughly analogous to Bayonetta. She has the closer relationship with Nintendo by far, and she was probably a lot more popular in the Smash Ballot than her general name recognition would suggest. She may also be more popular in Japan, but that is very speculative.

So what can we learn from this? Well, Cloud and Bayonetta both got into the game, so all it really teaches us is that neither Shantae nor Shovel Knight can be ruled out. Sakurai seems to consider these characters on a case-by-case basis, rather than sticking to a concrete set of rules. There's probably not much else to be learned from the comparison.

 

[Shinuto]

Cloud's inclusion fits with the theory that raw star power and impact on gaming history matter most, and that a relationship with Nintendo is merely optional.

However, Bayonetta's inclusion suggests that a close relationship with Nintendo can be enough to get you into the game, even if you aren't a major gaming icon.

Where popularity fits into this isn't clear to me. Cloud is much more famous than Bayonetta, so shouldn't he be considered more popular? On the other hand, Bayonetta probably got a lot more votes in the Smash Ballot, and maybe that's all that matters.


Now let's look at how this applies to Shantae and Shovel Knight.

Shovel Knight is roughly analogous to Cloud. Obviously he's not nearly as famous, but he is very well-known for an indie character. If we had reliable sales figures for both characters that we could compare, I would guess that Shovel Knight would be significantly ahead of Shantae by that metric.

Shantae is roughly analogous to Bayonetta. She has the closer relationship with Nintendo by far, and she was probably a lot more popular in the Smash Ballot than her general name recognition would suggest. She may also be more popular in Japan, but that is very speculative.

So what can we learn from this? Well, Cloud and Bayonetta both got into the game, so all it really teaches us is that neither Shantae nor Shovel Knight can be ruled out. Sakurai seems to consider these characters on a case-by-case basis, rather than sticking to a concrete set of rules. There's probably not much else to be learned from the comparison.

I'd say we also have to consider Cloud's franchise's connection to Nintendo.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Reading through the RTC two things are common:

• People who don't want an indie character in Smash
• People who think Shovel Knight would be more likely

I haven't played Shovel Knight, but I really can't follow that. Sure, Shovel Knight had a big push in the ballot, but it was because the game came out right around then, and not much has really happened with the series since. It feels like a Geno situation, where he was super popular in the Brawl speculation days but really dropped off in pre-Smash 4. I guess he's got the amiibo.

 

[Deleted member]

Reading through the RTC two things are common:

• People who don't want an indie character in Smash
• People who think Shovel Knight would be more likely

I haven't played Shovel Knight, but I really can't follow that. Sure, Shovel Knight had a big push in the ballot, but it was because the game came out right around then, and not much has really happened with the series since. It feels like a Geno situation, where he was super popular in the Brawl speculation days but really dropped off in pre-Smash 4. I guess he's got the amiibo.

To his credit, his game has added 2 new characters stories with remixed music, stages, and base gameplay. A 3rd campaign is on the way.
Nintendo published Shovel Knight in Japan.
Adding on to his Amiibo, his series is getting 3 more soon.

Shovel Knight is a good choice, While i think our girl Shantae kinda deserves a spot more because of her 16 year long history with Nintendo, His popularity isn't unwarranted.

 

[Shinuto]

I''m so confused by some people thinking an Undertale rep is more likely than Shantae. Now I LOVE Undertale ever since I got it back in October of 2015 but that game is NOT getting a character in Freaking Smash before Shantae
I mean Undertale literally just got announced on the Switch a couple weeks ago.

Seeing a lot of posts in there confirmed my thoughts that a lot of people really underplay Shantae's chances. Others also think hovel Knight has closer tie to Nintendo, in 4 years, than Shantae does in 16.

 

[Morbi]

I''m so confused by some people thinking an Undertale rep is more likely than Shantae. Now I LOVE Undertale ever since I got it back in October of 2015 but that game is NOT getting a character in Freaking Smash before Shantae
I mean Undertale literally just got announced on the Switch a couple weeks ago.

Seeing a lot of posts in there confirmed my thoughts that a lot of people really underplay Shantae's chances. Others also think hovel Knight has closer tie to Nintendo, in 4 years, than Shantae does in 16.

I have to be real, given that Shovel Knight, her direct competitor, took off and she more or less stagnated, I too believe that if they decided against him, for whatever reason, and still wanted an indie, they would go with the sensation that was Undertale over Shantae.

I do agree that the timing makes that extremely unlikely, but that is how I feel about Shantae. In general, time spent with a company has nothing on how much money you make a company.

 

[Shinuto]

I have to be real, given that Shovel Knight, her direct competitor, took off and she more or less stagnated, I too believe that if they decided against him, for whatever reason, and still wanted an indie, they would go with the sensation that was Undertale over Shantae.

I do agree that the timing makes that extremely unlikely, but that is how I feel about Shantae. In general, time spent with a company has nothing on how much money you make a company.

I disagree since Undertale has no history with Nintendo (its ONLY connection is it is based off Earthbound)

 

[BigShad]

Supported her for Sm4sh, and still gonna support that cute lil' genie today! I remember the huuuge push for her back when the ballot was a thing, and then Matt eventually saying something about his hopes for her being in Smash 5 after it was all said and done. Even if she only has a few games, she's still got that long-running history with Nintendo (and hey, the fact that Bayonetta can get in definitely makes me think she's got a fair chance... even if I said otherwise in the RTC thread.) Mind adding me to the support list?

 

[Shinuto]

Supported her for Sm4sh, and still gonna support that cute lil' genie today! I remember the huuuge push for her back when the ballot was a thing, and then Matt eventually saying something about his hopes for her being in Smash 5 after it was all said and done. Even if she only has a few games, she's still got that long-running history with Nintendo (and hey, the fact that Bayonetta can get in definitely makes me think she's got a fair chance... even if I said otherwise in the RTC thread.) Mind adding me to the support list?

theres a support list?

 

[BigShad]

theres a support list?

Checked again to make sure my eyes weren't messing with me... yep, there is. Check the OP, it's just below the "Fan Art" section.

 

[Shinuto]

Add me to the list.

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree since Undertale has no history with Nintendo (its ONLY connection is it is based off Earthbound)

I think with the addition of Cloud in Smash 4, the speculation floodgates were opened. Add the fact the Switch is selling REALLY well lots of companies are gonna obviously port/develop games for the System. As that makes perfect business sense. not too mention that hardly any game doesn't go Multi-platform at some point. Over time alot of games are gonna be on the switch. This muddies the Speculation pool.

A character is being ported to the Switch doesn't hold much weight in these days, but people are treating it as it does.
Crash coming to switch isn't that big of a deal, hes been Multi-plat for years,
Undertale was ported to the PS4 and Vita.
Doom is on Everything, But i've seen Doom Guy threads.
PayDay 2 is on switch. Masked bank robbers in Smash
Does Cartman have a chance because South Park FBH is being ported?

What I'm getting at is basically anyone can get their title on Switch. If they are willing to publish it.

To be in smash as a 3rd party guest character you have to offer more then, I was ported to switch.

 

[conTAgi0n]

I don't think Shovel Knight should be underestimated. Popularity seems to be enough for a character to earn consideration at least, and Shovel Knight's game is really good, and he would fit well in the cast. His game is still relatively recent, and is still receiving DLC, even if he's not in it. To claim that he has as close a relationship with Nintendo as Shantae can only be willful ignorance on the part of Shovel Knight fans, but he does have some advantages.

I think it's pretty farfetched to believe that an Undertale rep is more likely than Shantae though. By all accounts, Undertale is great, but the game still isn't even out for Switch yet. They probably didn't even start work porting it before the roster for Smash Switch was mostly finalized. Plus fans haven't exactly been clamoring to see the game represented in Smash. The game wasn't even out during the Smash Ballot. Sans didn't become even a meme pick until a few weeks ago.

It's a popular, successful game, but it came too late, and despite its popularity, probably isn't requested much for Smash.

I have to be real, given that Shovel Knight, her direct competitor, took off and she more or less stagnated, I too believe that if they decided against him, for whatever reason, and still wanted an indie, they would go with the sensation that was Undertale over Shantae.

I do agree that the timing makes that extremely unlikely, but that is how I feel about Shantae. In general, time spent with a company has nothing on how much money you make a company.

Can you clarify what you mean when you say that Shovel Knight took off, and Shantae stagnated? I personally don't know of anything to support that claim, so I'm curious what you are basing that off.

Time spent with a company has a lot to do with how much money you make a company. Making a company X amount of money per year goes a lot further if you've been working with them for 20 years vs. 5 years. The Shantae series has sold respectably over a long period of time. More importantly, it's too reductive to think that Sakurai is choosing characters on the basis of, "which company has made Nintendo the most money?"

 

[Deleted member]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say that Shovel Knight took off, and Shantae stagnated? I personally don't know of anything to support that claim, so I'm curious what you are basing that off."

It's a small fact. But Shantae's Kickstarter for Half Genie Hero actually made more then double the amount of money that Shovel Knight's did. does't sound too stagnate to me.

 

[Shinuto]

I have to be real, given that Shovel Knight, her direct competitor, took off and she more or less stagnated, I too believe that if they decided against him, for whatever reason, and still wanted an indie, they would go with the sensation that was Undertale over Shantae.

I do agree that the timing makes that extremely unlikely, but that is how I feel about Shantae. In general, time spent with a company has nothing on how much money you make a company.

uhh actually Half Genie Hero's kickstarter got more money and backers then Shovel Knight did.

 

[conTAgi0n]

On top of that, I still firmly believe that the Smash Ballot results will be the data that Nintendo uses to judge the popularity of various characters. Assuming I'm right, then a character's popularity during the Smash Ballot is what matters for their inclusion in Smash for Switch. Whatever happens with a character's popularity after that is basically irrelevant.

 

[Morbi]

I don't think Shovel Knight should be underestimated. Popularity seems to be enough for a character to earn consideration at least, and Shovel Knight's game is really good, and he would fit well in the cast. His game is still relatively recent, and is still receiving DLC, even if he's not in it. To claim that he has as close a relationship with Nintendo as Shantae can only be willful ignorance on the part of Shovel Knight fans, but he does have some advantages.

I think it's pretty farfetched to believe that an Undertale rep is more likely than Shantae though. By all accounts, Undertale is great, but the game still isn't even out for Switch yet. They probably didn't even start work porting it before the roster for Smash Switch was mostly finalized. Plus fans haven't exactly been clamoring to see the game represented in Smash. The game wasn't even out during the Smash Ballot. Sans didn't become even a meme pick until a few weeks ago.

It's a popular, successful game, but it came too late, and despite its popularity, probably isn't requested much for Smash.


Can you clarify what you mean when you say that Shovel Knight took off, and Shantae stagnated? I personally don't know of anything to support that claim, so I'm curious what you are basing that off.

Time spent with a company has a lot to do with how much money you make a company. Making a company X amount of money per year goes a lot further if you've been working with them for 20 years vs. 5 years. The Shantae series has sold respectably over a long period of time. More importantly, it's too reductive to think that Sakurai is choosing characters on the basis of, "which company has made Nintendo the most money?"

I am not sure if I put "in relation to Nintendo" or not, I usually do when talking about Shantae. But Shovel Knight was one of the only series granted the honor of a third-party amiibo outside of Monster Hunter, which was a massive success (and beyond that, I never even heard to the amiibo). And that, to me, demonstrates they are moving forward with Nintendo whereas Shantae is same old, same old. Beyond that, Shovel Knight himself as been expanding and making himself more of a gaming/indie icon whereas Shantae is more or less just staying in her lane. I, personally, have heard a LOT more about Shovel Knight since the ballot compared to Shantae.

I do not believe it is "reductive" when pertaining to third-party characters specifically, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Shinuto]

I am not sure if I put "in relation to Nintendo" or not, I usually do when talking about Shantae. But Shovel Knight was one of the only series granted the honor of a third-party amiibo outside of Monster Hunter, which was a massive success (and beyond that, I never even heard to the amiibo). And that, to me, demonstrates they are moving forward with Nintendo whereas Shantae is same old, same old. Beyond that, Shovel Knight himself as been expanding and making himself more of a gaming/indie icon whereas Shantae is more or less just staying in her lane. I, personally, have heard a LOT more about Shovel Knight since the ballot compared to Shantae.

I do not believe it is "reductive" when pertaining to third-party characters specifically, but that is just my opinion.

did Nintedo come to them for the amiibo or was it the other way around?

also yeah cause YCG have been and Im not trying to mean in saying this but shoving a cameo of him into practically every single indie game that has come out since his debut. Of course people are going to hear about him more when he's a guest in 50 trillion indie games.

 

[Morbi]

did Nintedo come to them for the amiibo or was it the other way around?

also yeah cause YCG have been and Im not trying to mean in saying this but shoving a cameo of him into practically every single indie game that has come out since his debut. Of course people are going to hear about him more when he's a guest in 50 trillion indie games.

That is honestly a good question. I would have to assume that they approached Nintendo at least one of the times, the other one might have been Nintendo themselves.

I definitely agree, they are sort of tricking him out to anyone and everyone.