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Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

conTAgi0n

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That polls results have Goku as a 3rd party character in third place, and again as a meme character in first place.
I hate the internet >_<
Yeah the results from this poll are kinda dumb. Waluigi far and away in first place among first parties is a surprise. Crash Bandicoot winning among third parties (if you combine the categories Crash Bandicoot + Crash) is an obvious result of his N. Sane Trilogy coming to Switch. Shovel Knight that close behind him makes sense I guess, but Rayman and Goku of all characters neck in neck for third is pretty ridiculous.

It's hard to know exactly what to make of this poll. All these online polls have to be taken with a grain of salt, since the methodology can never be that great. I believe this was posted only on Reddit, primarily on r/smashbros, a community which definitely has its own biases.

I do suspect that Waluigi has low key been one of the most popular picks all along. Reddit seems to have a particular fondness for him due to his meme status, but also on the occasions when I asked more casual gamers or semi-gamers in real life about the ballot, Waluigi's name came up often. His surprise dominance here may not be a fluke. Of course Goku is popular, but him showing up so strong in this poll surprises me as well. I would put it down to either Dragon Ball FighterZ, or loads of people memeing, or both. Rayman I think owes a permanent debt of gratitude to the Smashified guy for putting him on everyone's radar for Smash with that fake leak. He'd still be doing okay otherwise, but I think it helped him quite a lot.

Our girl Shantae comes in at a respectable but modest 7th among third party characters, after you combine "Crash" and "Crash Bandicoot". Definitely not as well as I was hoping. If anyone hasn't gone and cast a vote for her, I encourage you to do so.



Whether this poll is an accurate reflection of public opinion or not, I do think Shantae's star has somewhat faded. Why? Because honestly, Half Genie Hero just wasn't that great of a game. I've been meaning to write about this for a while now. Bear with me, because this is gonna be long and I'm about to get pretty negative, but it comes from a place of love for the series. I think seeing where HGH went wrong is important for understanding the series as a whole.





WHY HALF GENIE HERO IS THE WORST SHANTAE GAME



HGH wasn't a bad game. It was competently made. The artwork and music were great. I did have fun with it. But it was also lackluster and forgettable.

Half Genie Hero on its own merits

Considered on its own terms, it's a platformer with 5 or 6 large, multi-part levels. It's a relatively short game, stretched out by a lot of required backtracking through previously played levels. The gameplay and level design are fine, but nothing special. The overarching story is quite forgettable, with most of the levels driven by unrelated sub-quests. The world of Shantae is decently charming, if not a little superficial. The dialogue is fine. I only just started the DLC, but it seems very disappointing, in that it's just playing the same levels with new characters. Overall it's a respectable game, but it doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Shovel Knight or Celeste.

To see what a step backwards Half Genie Hero represents though, you have to compare it to the previous games, particularly its direct predecessor, Pirate's Curse.

Half Genie Hero vs Pirate's Curse

Pirate's Curse outclasses Half Genie Hero in basically every possible way.

First consider gameplay. Pirate's Curse was bold enough to ditch the genie powers altogether and show that Shantae and her series could work just fine without them. It was a really fresh direction for the series. Plus the gameplay is really fun - just watching the trailers makes you want to try out all her different abilities, and they are just as satisfying to use as they look.

Half Genie Hero, by contrast, feels mostly like a rehash of the gameplay from Risky's Revenge. The main differences are that it adds one magic spell (the most boring one, the shield), and a few very boring transformations. They didn't even do much to balance out the spells they ripped from Risky's Revenge, which varied widely in usefulness. The complete list of new transformations is: bat, crab, mouse, gem jug, dryad, and blob fish. The only one that isn't completely boring is the crab, and honestly I found the crab really annoying to play as. Overall, the gameplay is still fun, but controlling Shantae in this game isn't nearly as enjoyable as in Pirate's Curse. With the larger character models, and no abilities like the scimitar charge or scimitar dive, or the pirate's hat (such a great item), Shantae feels much more sluggish.

Not only is the gameplay in Pirate's Curse better, but there's a lot more of it. It's a bigger world, and Scuttle Town transforms the further you get into the game, making the whole world feel dynamic. The world of Half Genie Hero is much smaller, only partially because of the linear level design, and nothing ever changes. No matter how many times you kick ass in main street, it's always overrun with pirates.

Half Genie Hero compares even more unfavorably in terms of story telling. Pirate's Curse told a much more compelling and focused story, plus the game had a much grander feel to it. Not only that, but Pirate's Curse found a lot of time to develop the side cast. Bolo, Rottytops, Sky, and Risky Boots all had their characters fleshed out, and were made more complex and relatable. Those same characters in Half Genie Hero, by contrast, all come off as very shallow and one-note. Plus the dialogue is better in Pirate's Curse, and the jokes are funnier. I'm also disappointed that for the third time in a row, it's the same old townspeople, who have less interesting things to say than ever before.

Half Genie Hero vs Risky's Revenge

Most people think Pirate's Curse is the best Shantae game, so perhaps it's not surprising that HGH fares poorly in that comparison. But it also doesn't live up to either of the first two games.

As mentioned before, the gameplay in HGH is similar to that of Risky's Revenge, so in terms of controlling Shantae, they are pretty comparable. I don't care for any of the new transformations or the new magic spell in HGH, so I personally might favor Risky's Revenge for not having any extra crap. However, I'll call it a toss up when it comes to controlling Shantae. In terms of level design and world design though, Risky's Revenge is clearly better. There is a world to explore, plus dungeons, and the mechanics of controlling Shantae are much better suited to world exploration than linear platforming levels. Risky's Revenge also has a better story, and funnier jokes.

Half Genie Hero vs the original Shantae

The original Shantae game has a bit of a barrier to entry for most people. It doesn't guide you appropriately in where to go next or the importance of items, and is unforgiving at some points. For this reason, it's the one Shantae game most people would probably rank below HGH.

I think if you look past those difficulties though, it's clear that the original Shantae game is very special, I think also much better than HGH. I'll admit now that it's my favorite in the series, so feel welcome to accuse me of bias.

First of all, consider gameplay. Shantae feels very good to control in this game, and with the fighter's gear has a wide variety of moves. I personally think the dancing mechanic is amazing. It's one of my favorite gameplay mechanics of all time, and there's nothing out there quite like it. Inputting the dances is just so satisfying for some reason, and it makes the transformations feel more special somehow. Speaking of which, the different transformations and items are surprisingly well balanced, so that nothing is extra or unnecessary. One of the reasons most people struggle to get through the early portions of the game is that they don't realize how important the liberal use of items is. The puzzles, dungeons, and overworld are all very well designed. I also love that this has a big, completely unified 2D world to explore, with a number of neat little mini-games scattered throughout too. I have frequently picked this game back up just to mess around with moving Shantae and playing with all her different items, transformations, and abilities. Half Genie Hero never inspires me to do that.

The aesthetics really are top notch, pretty much the pinnacle of what the Game Boy Color could do, and they give the game a really unique, almost Wario Land-esque vibe to it that none of the other games emulate. The sprite work holds up beautifully, and the music is so good. There are still tracks in the original that I'm hoping they bring back. The strong point of Half Genie Hero is music and aesthetics though, so I can't say there's an objective winner here.

Unsurprisingly for a GBC game, the original doesn't boast a super in depth story, but it is simple and solid and surprisingly effective. There are also several towns filled with interesting NPCs.

The Big Picture

Now consider broader direction of the series. The original Shantae game was a masterpiece by GBC standards, and brings to life a colorful new world and cast of characters, and is full of great and original gameplay ideas. Ages later, Risky's Revenge finally came along, and while it wasn't as inspired as the original, it did a fine job bringing Shantae out of gaming history and into the modern era. Pirate's Curse hit a new high for the series by most people's reckoning, refining everything good about Risky's Revenge, while also doing something different and fresh with the series. It is the most traditional metroidvania, but it is executed so well, and actually adds depth to the world and to the characters. When the Half Genie Hero kickstarter succeeded, the future was looking really bright for Shantae. She was getting better with each game, and was already great in the last one. There was every reason to think the next one would be out of this world.

That was when the Smash Ballot happened. It was way easier to get people hyped about Shantae back then, because she had an awesome history and was clearly on the rise. It felt like her moment.

Then Half Genie Hero came out, and it just did not continue that upward trajectory at all. Shantae's latest game was very pretty to look at, but underneath the graphics was a game that was good but nothing to write home about. It wasn't a game that could sustain the Shantae hype, because it's not worthy of her legacy.

If Half Genie Hero had topped Pirate's Curse, people would be way more hyped for Shantae right now. Even in that dumb poll, whatever its flaws, she'd probably be competing with or beating Shovel Knight, rather than losing to ****ing Goku.

Keep in mind that even Mario doesn't have a perfect track record. You don't write off a franchise or a character because of one underwhelming game. As I mentioned in a previous post, I think Shantae may have hit her peak at just the right time to maximize her chances at a Smash appearance. But for an indie series with just a few games, the most recent one has the greatest impact on perception.

I also worry about what is next for Shantae. The next Shantae game is probably a long way off, so until then I'll just content myself with how fantastic the original game and Pirate's Curse are. But I really hope that Half Genie Hero goes down in history as a mistake that the Shantae series learns from, rather than the first step into mediocrity. There is so much more potential for greatness from the Shantae series, I would hate to see it squandered.
 
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GoldLiger

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Well with all the work that HGH had when it comes to it's art then it makes sense they will use it for the sequel. Anyone bother to ask Wayforward?
 

Jave

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She's my #1 choice for an Indie character in Smash. Nice to see there's still plenty of support for her.

Put me in the list of supporters!
 

Parallel_Falchion

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Pirate's Curse outclasses Half Genie Hero in basically every possible way.
Too true.

I have played every Shantae game in order, starting with the first one a few years ago. Pirate's Curse is easily the best (and just a great game in its own right). The original has definitely aged, but past that I might actually put it next. For the other two, it kind of depends on what you want from a Shantae game. Risky's Revenge is more metroidvania, 1/2 Genie Hero is more action-platformer. Both are good but not outstanding.
 

Shinuto

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If Shantae DOES get into Smash Switch, what music would you want from her series to be featured in it it? Personally I'd like Boss Battle from Pirate's Curse, that song would ******* hype to fight too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkpNKgiSNS8
 

Shadow Novus

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conTAgi0n

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If Shantae DOES get into Smash Switch, what music would you want from her series to be featured in it it? Personally I'd like Boss Battle from Pirate's Curse, that song would ******* hype to fight too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkpNKgiSNS8
Yeah that Boss Battle theme is a must.

I would hope for at least a medley of the OST from the original game. If possible though, I'd love to get a dedicated remix for at least these two tracks:

Zombie Caravan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1sqdsk3nc

Oasis Town: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQc6ZhwaiB4



By the way everyone, the r/smashbros mods just posted an "official" r/smashbros newcomer wishlist poll. If you are only going to vote in one poll, make it this one. I strongly suspect that this is going to become the most widely referenced poll in any character discussions from here on out, so it would be really great to see Shantae do well.

Here's the original Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/85fi7b/official_rsmashbros_smash_switch_character/

And if for some reason you don't want to visit Reddit, here's the link straight to the poll: CLICK HERE TO FILL OUT THE POLL!

I don't know how many people still visit this thread, but let's get Shantae as many votes as possible!
 
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Shinuto

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Yeah that Boss Battle theme is a must.

I would hope for at least a medley of the OST from the original game. If possible though, I'd love to get a dedicated remix for at least these two tracks:

Zombie Caravan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1sqdsk3nc

Oasis Town: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQc6ZhwaiB4



By the way everyone, the r/smashbros mods just posted an "official" r/smashbros newcomer wishlist poll. If you are only going to vote in one poll, make it this one. I strongly suspect that this is going to become the most widely referenced poll in any character discussions from here on out, so it would be really great to see Shantae do well.

Here's the original Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/85fi7b/official_rsmashbros_smash_switch_character/

And if for some reason you don't want to visit Reddit, here's the link straight to the poll: CLICK HERE TO FILL OUT THE POLL!

I don't know how many people still visit this thread, but let's get Shantae as many votes as possible!
Get more people to know her!
 

ProtoTwi

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So is Anything stopping me from voting for Shantae in all 5 slots?
 

ProtoTwi

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Game Xplain posted a "Game and Watch" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDVFr--AnTI for The switch port of "Pirates Curse". and 90% of the comments are some variation of "Shantae for Smash" so its good to see our girl is popular outside of smashboards.

So a neat little factoid, The Switch version comes with a "new" little Mini game called "Super Shantae Nab", its actually reminiscent of the Wario Ware DYI Micro game I brought up earlier in the thread.
 
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conTAgi0n

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Game Xplain posted a "Game and Watch" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDVFr--AnTI for The switch port of "Pirates Curse". and 90% of the comments are some variation of "Shantae for Smash" so its good to see our girl is popular outside of smashboards.

So a neat little factoid, The Switch version comes with a "new" little Mini game called "Super Shantae Nab", its actually reminiscent of the Wario Ware DYI Micro game I brought up earlier in the thread.
Those YouTube comments are nice to see. Looks like Shantae has retained a lot of the support she earned during the Smash Ballot after all, because everywhere I see her mentioned, the "Shantae for Smash" comments seem to come out of the woodwork.

Also damnit I watched like 3 seconds of Pirate's Curse gameplay and now I need to have it on Switch too. That is too cool that they included an arcade version of that Wario Ware micro game.

~

Here's a new discussion topic I'm curious to hear all your thoughts on:

What unannounced newcomers (or veterans cut in Smash 4) do you think have a better chance than Shantae for Smash on Switch?

My list might look something like this, in roughly descending order of likelihood:

1. ARMS representative, probably Spring Man. There is no way Nintendo won't rep ARMS with a new playable character in this installment. I see this one as practically guaranteed.

2. New Pokémon rep, probably Decidueye, as everyone has been saying. Every single installment of Smash has had a new Pokémon representative. No reason to think this one will be any different.

3. Ice Climbers. They were only cut due to technical limitations in Smash 4. I would be very surprised if Sakurai didn't add them back in now that he doesn't have that problem, especially since he already did a lot of the work for them in Smash 4.

4. New Fire Emblem rep. Every game since Melee has had one. I don't think every FE character will make it back, but as with Pokémon, Sakurai will probably rep one of the newer FE games in this Smash title.


Those are the last of the "safe" picks.


5. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 rep, probably Rex. Nintendo has been pushing this franchise, and XC2 was very successful, and Sakurai even tweeted praising XC2, so I predict this series is going to start getting the Fire Emblem treatment, with another anime-y character added to the roster like clockwork every installment. You can probably tell I'm not super excited for this one. Maybe I should play it before I knock it though. As soon as I have 5000 spare hours to kill, I'll be sure to give it a try. I don't think Sakurai has ever added a significant side character ahead of a game's main protag, so Rex seems the most likely.

5. King K. Rool. Everyone's favorite coked up kremling almost certainly did very well in the Smash Ballot, and Sakurai is probably using that data to help choose newcomers. Plus K. Rool ticks a lot of the boxes for a good Smash newcomer - Nintendo character, underrepresented series, visually distinct, would make a unique fighter, etc. Plus, check out this theory.

6. Waluigi. Sakurai has passed him over each time so far, making me think that he is far from Sakurai's first choice for yet another Mario rep. But I suspect Waluigi did great in the Smash Ballot, which will change Sakurai's calculations. Waluigi is a first party Nintendo character that people would get excited for, and would have a unique moveset and playstyle. Plus Sakurai does like troll characters.



That is the last of the characters that I can say with reasonable confidence seem more probable than Shantae. Here are a few honorable mentions for characters that stick out to me as rivaling Shantae in likelihood. I wouldn't say any of them seem outright more likely than Shantae.

7. Isaac from Golden Sun. Two reasons: he probably did at least pretty well in the Smash Ballot, and Sakurai removed him as an Assist Trophy in Smash 4, just like he did with Little Mac. Why would Sakurai have removed Isaac as an Assist Trophy? Porting him over to Smash 4 couldn't have been that much trouble, and Sakurai kept plenty of more obscure Assist Trophies. He didn't totally forget about Golden Sun, because it at least got another music track. One possibility is that Isaac was intended to be a playable character, but got cut for time. If that is the case, then he is very likely to make the next Smash game. In the end I kept him down here though because that is pretty speculative. Depressing as it may be for Golden Sun fans, it's also reasonable to suppose that Isaac simply wasn't a high enough priority for Sakurai even relative to other Assist Trophies.

8 (tie). Banjo Kazooie. They're here primarily because they probably did super well on the Smash Ballot. If Nintendo announces anything about B&K coming to the Switch in any form, they become a lot more likely. And if Crash Bandicoot can come to the Switch, B&K making their debut on the console would not surprise me. B&K would have had to absolutely dominate in the Smash Ballot otherwise though.

8 (tie). Crash Bandicoot. Opposite of Banjo, the main thing Crash has going for him is obviously the N. Sane Trilogy coming to Switch. He will be popular on all the polls now for that reason too, but back during the Smash Ballot he didn't make waves. I personally kind of side with Honest Game Trailer's acidic commentary on Crash's legacy. Overhyped because of the current moment, in my opinion. The only reason I have him on my list is that the N. Sane Trilogy on Switch does present an opportunity to put him in Smash that must be awfully tempting for both Nintendo and Sony.

10. Wolf. I really liked Wolf in Brawl, but why did he get cut? He's not a third party character, and there were no technical barriers for him, so I suspect that Sakurai just felt he was redundant. I don't see that changing with Smash on Switch, when Sakurai is trying to balance preserving an ever growing list of veterans with a healthy pool of newcomers, all while keeping roster size under control. As a first party veteran though he's certainly got a shot, especially since he probably did decently in the ballot.

11. Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight is very popular, and there is a chance that he outscored Shantae on the Smash Ballot (since they were both very popular it's just impossible to know). Shantae definitely has him beat in history with Nintendo, but Sakurai did add Cloud to the game, which may be an indicator that he values raw popularity above history with Nintendo. I still think Shantae is more likely, but there is absolutely a case to be made here for Shovel Knight.



Smash on Switch seems like it will at least be marketed as a new game, even if it ends up recycling the engine and most of the assets from Smash 4. I don't see them pushing a new Smash game without at least a dozen new characters, if not more. Beyond a few safe bets, it's very unpredictable who gets those spots. Assuming Sakurai really did consider the Smash Ballot data in his decisions, Shantae still appears to be a very competitive candidate, when you consider who else is in the race.
 
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SneakyLink

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Those YouTube comments are nice to see. Looks like Shantae has retained a lot of the support she earned during the Smash Ballot after all, because everywhere I see her mentioned, the "Shantae for Smash" comments seem to come out of the woodwork.

Also damnit I watched like 3 seconds of Pirate's Curse gameplay and now I need to have it on Switch too. That is too cool that they included an arcade version of that Wario Ware micro game.

~

Here's a new discussion topic I'm curious to hear all your thoughts on:

What unannounced newcomers (or veterans cut in Smash 4) do you think have a better chance than Shantae for Smash on Switch?

My list might look something like this, in roughly descending order of likelihood:

1. ARMS representative, probably Spring Man. There is no way Nintendo won't rep ARMS with a new playable character in this installment. I see this one as practically guaranteed.

2. New Pokémon rep, probably Decidueye, as everyone has been saying. Every single installment of Smash has had a new Pokémon representative. No reason to think this one will be any different.

3. Ice Climbers. They were only cut due to technical limitations in Smash 4. I would be very surprised if Sakurai didn't add them back in now that he doesn't have that problem, especially since he already did a lot of the work for them in Smash 4.

4. New Fire Emblem rep. Every game since Melee has had one. I don't think every FE character will make it back, but as with Pokémon, Sakurai will probably rep one of the newer FE games in this Smash title.


Those are the last of the "safe" picks.


5. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 rep, probably Rex. Nintendo has been pushing this franchise, and XC2 was very successful, and Sakurai even tweeted praising XC2, so I predict this series is going to start getting the Fire Emblem treatment, with another anime-y character added to the roster like clockwork every installment. You can probably tell I'm not super excited for this one. Maybe I should play it before I knock it though. As soon as I have 5000 spare hours to kill, I'll be sure to give it a try. I don't think Sakurai has ever added a significant side character ahead of a game's main protag, so Rex seems the most likely.

5. King K. Rool. Everyone's favorite coked up kremling almost certainly did very well in the Smash Ballot, and Sakurai is probably using that data to help choose newcomers. Plus K. Rool ticks a lot of the boxes for a good Smash newcomer - Nintendo character, underrepresented series, visually distinct, would make a unique fighter, etc. Plus, check out this theory.

6. Waluigi. Sakurai has passed him over each time so far, making me think that he is far from Sakurai's first choice for yet another Mario rep. But I suspect Waluigi did great in the Smash Ballot, which will change Sakurai's calculations. Waluigi is a first party Nintendo character that people would get excited for, and would have a unique moveset and playstyle. Plus Sakurai does like troll characters.



That is the last of the characters that I can say with reasonable confidence seem more probable than Shantae. Here are a few honorable mentions for characters that stick out to me as rivaling Shantae in likelihood. I wouldn't say any of them seem outright more likely than Shantae.

7. Isaac from Golden Sun. Two reasons: he probably did at least pretty well in the Smash Ballot, and Sakurai removed him as an Assist Trophy in Smash 4, just like he did with Little Mac. Why would Sakurai have removed Isaac as an Assist Trophy? Porting him over to Smash 4 couldn't have been that much trouble, and Sakurai kept plenty of more obscure Assist Trophies. He didn't totally forget about Golden Sun, because it at least got another music track. One possibility is that Isaac was intended to be a playable character, but got cut for time. If that is the case, then he is very likely to make the next Smash game. In the end I kept him down here though because that is pretty speculative. Depressing as it may be for Golden Sun fans, it's also reasonable to suppose that Isaac simply wasn't a high enough priority for Sakurai even relative to other Assist Trophies.

8 (tie). Banjo Kazooie. They're here primarily because they probably did super well on the Smash Ballot. If Nintendo announces anything about B&K coming to the Switch in any form, they become a lot more likely. And if Crash Bandicoot can come to the Switch, that wouldn't surprise me either. B&K would have had to absolutely dominate in the Smash Ballot though.

8 (tie). Crash Bandicoot. Opposite of Banjo, the main thing Crash has going for him is obviously the N. Sane Trilogy coming to Switch. He will be popular on all the polls now for that reason too, but back during the Smash Ballot he didn't make waves. I personally kind of side with Honest Game Trailer's acidic commentary on Crash's legacy. Overhyped because of the current moment, in my opinion. The only reason I have him on my list is that the N. Sane Trilogy on Switch does present an opportunity to put him in Smash that must be awfully tempting for both Nintendo and Sony.

10. Wolf. I really liked Wolf in Brawl, but why did he get cut? He's not a third party character, and there were no technical barriers for him, so I suspect that Sakurai just felt he was redundant. I don't see that changing with Smash on Switch, when Sakurai is trying to balance preserving an ever growing list of veterans with a healthy pool of newcomers, all while keeping roster size under control. As a first party veteran though he's certainly got a shot, especially since he probably did decently in the ballot.

11. Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight is very popular, and there is a chance that he outscored Shantae on the Smash Ballot (since they were both very popular it's just impossible to know). Shantae definitely has him beat in history with Nintendo, but Sakurai did add Cloud to the game, which may be an indicator that he values raw popularity above history with Nintendo. I still think Shantae is more likely, but there is absolutely a case to be made here for Shovel Knight.



Smash on Switch seems like it will at least be marketed as a new game, even if it ends up recycling the engine and most of the assets from Smash 4. I don't see them pushing a new Smash game without at least a dozen new characters, if not more. Beyond a few safe bets, it's very unpredictable who gets those spots. Assuming Sakurai really did consider the Smash Ballot data in his decisions, Shantae still seems like a pretty competitive candidate, when you consider who else is in the race.
Of all the characters listed, I would say the first 4 are near guaranteed with a Xenoblade character potentially getting in.

As for the rest:

K. Rool is the only other character I hope to see in this installment besides Shantae so I hope he gets in.

Waluigi I honestly don't get though with him appearing in a majority of spin offs, maybe he could get his chance?

Isaac might be a 'retro' rep if GBA can now be considered retro.

I would say Banjo has no chance, but Microsoft is playing nice these days with cross platform play in Minecraft/Microsoft skins on Switch/Wii U (Including Banjo!) so I hope I'm wrong.

Crash is almost not getting in, his popularity now a days is mostly due to N-Sane Trilogy doing well and getting ported.

Wolf is the only veteran I want back at this point, so I'll accept him.

Shovel Knight does already have an amiibo so he could be added. But do the expansions to the game even feature him as playable?
 

CannonStreak

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Out of all the indies characters I have seen, Shantae is the one I want the most in Smash. She has a long history with Nintendo, and I do see some things about her that would make her unique, so I guess I am in as a supporter.
 

ProtoTwi

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I agree with pretty much your whole list. But I think we should narrow our focus,
While its cool that shes a strong contender in the overall smash newcomer-verse, I feel its more reasonable to assume Shantae is really only fighting the other 3rd parties for a spot or 2 specifically earmarked for 3rd parties.
 

Freelance Spy

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Hey Shantae fans, I'm with ya, and what's more, I am part of a small independent film company and am in the process of writing some Shantae for Smash promotional trailers.

So yeah, add me to the list and if anyone here is artistically inclined, hit me up.

I say that if we all work together, we can have the best campaign provided there is another ballot.
 

Shinuto

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Hey Shantae fans, I'm with ya, and what's more, I am part of a small independent film company and am in the process of writing some Shantae for Smash promotional trailers.

So yeah, add me to the list and if anyone here is artistically inclined, hit me up.

I say that if we all work together, we can have the best campaign provided there is another ballot.
given the amount of cool insanity brought about from the previous ballot, I'd say another ballot is likely.
 

ProtoTwi

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Hey Shantae fans, I'm with ya, and what's more, I am part of a small independent film company and am in the process of writing some Shantae for Smash promotional trailers.

So yeah, add me to the list and if anyone here is artistically inclined, hit me up.

I say that if we all work together, we can have the best campaign provided there is another ballot.
Having some campaign material done early and on stand by could be extremely valuable.
Would allow Shantae to come out the gates swinging and hopefully get some early momentum.

We aren't gonna have the hype of the 'Half Genie Hero" kickstarter to back is up in the event of a new ballot.
 
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conTAgi0n

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Hey Shantae fans, I'm with ya, and what's more, I am part of a small independent film company and am in the process of writing some Shantae for Smash promotional trailers.

So yeah, add me to the list and if anyone here is artistically inclined, hit me up.

I say that if we all work together, we can have the best campaign provided there is another ballot.
Wow that's super awesome actually. You don't have to spill all your secret plans if you don't want to, but I am really curious about what sort of stuff you have in mind for promotional trailers.

As for the possibility of another Smash Ballot: I think it's somewhat unlikely. My belief, which I've seen echoed elsewhere, is that the original Smash Ballot was intended mainly to collect data for Smash on Switch, rather than for Smash 4 DLC (as was advertised). I doubt there will be another Smash game before the next console, and especially given how incredibly successful the Switch is shaping up to be, that's probably a long way off. It's not impossible that they might do another ballot for Smash Switch DLC, but I'm not expecting it.

That's not to say that a promotional trailer, or something related, would be pointless. Far from it. There are a lot of worthy purposes it could have: raising awareness for Shantae and her series, gaining a lot of views and attention for your studio, and straight up just creating an awesome piece of Shantae fan work (you can bet that WayForward, and Matt Bozon in particular, would be over the moon about it). I would just say that if you proceed with an ambitious project like that, you should make sure that those motivations are reward enough. While it's still possible that it could positively impact Shantae's chances at making it into Smash, for all we know the roster is already set in stone.

I hope you do it though, I think that has the potential to be ridiculously cool. I'd be happy to help however I could, but unfortunately I don't really have any relevant artistic skills lol.
 

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Wow that's super awesome actually. You don't have to spill all your secret plans if you don't want to, but I am really curious about what sort of stuff you have in mind for promotional trailers.
The plan will remain secret until I can lock down a crew for it unfortunately. The project may also have to be pushed back until spring depending on my team's individual schedules. Even if she never makes it in, I'm hoping to help out Wayforward in whatever way I can. Either way, my goal will be building Shantae hype.

When the day comes tho, I'm going to need the help of everyone here to bump it up and to also go crazy in support of Shantae like you never have before. I'm hopeful that she can become at least top five in polls if it comes down to it.
 

Parallel_Falchion

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On music:

Some version of boss battle (from the first three games) and Burning Town are absolutes. The longshot that I'd love, though, and possibly my favorite track in the series, is Streamworks. A remix of the classic Labyrinth theme would also probably make me cry. And for the title as much as the track itself, Counterfeit Mermaids.
 

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On the topic of music, I definitely agree Burning Town and Boss Battle from Pirate's Curse are musts.

My personal favorite who I'd love to see in is Rave in the Grave. Such an amazingly upbeat track and it would fit perfectly in Smash.
 

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On the topic of music, I definitely agree Burning Town and Boss Battle from Pirate's Curse are musts.

My personal favorite who I'd love to see in is Rave in the Grave. Such an amazingly upbeat track and it would fit perfectly in Smash.
Man, think all those newbies who will get to experience Shantae's great music for the first time if she gets into Smash?
 

AvionFinch

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Shantae is my most wanted indie for sure, Pirate's Curse is legit one of my favorite games (totally getting it on my Switch tomorrow). So yeah, definitely count me as a supporter.

Not only would we get some of the great music from her games, we could even get Jake in as a guest composer to do some sick remixes.
 

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Phil Spencer just re-affirmed his support for Banjo joining Smash on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/976118125891485696

It's not proof, but I think this decreases the likelihood that B&K have made it into the new Smash. Simply answering "yep" to the question of whether he is open to B&K in Smash might not violate a NDA, but I think it's much more likely that Phil Spencer would simply just not respond in that case.

EDIT: caught a typo
 
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ProtoTwi

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Phil Spancer just re-affirmed his support for Banjo joining Smash on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/976118125891485696

It's not proof, but I think this decreases the likelihood that B&K have made it into the new Smash. Simply answering "yep" to the question of whether he is open to B&K in Smash might not violate a NDA, but I think it's much more likely that Phil Spencer would simply just not respond in that case.
Matt, and WayForward are still silent on twitter about smash.
 

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yeah. with them promoting Pirates Curse on switch its been brought up a bunch.
Don't get my hopes up ******, I can't take waiting another 3 to 4 years or whatever.
 

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Wayforward being quiet can only mean 1 of 2 things:
1. Strict NDA to not reveal anything until Nintendo gives the go-ahead
2. They don't want to bother with this installment.

But it is strange to see the company be quiet after (what I can presume was) a great ballot run.
 

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Wayforward being quiet can only mean 1 of 2 things:
1. Strict NDA to not reveal anything until Nintendo gives the go-ahead
2. They don't want to bother with this installment.

But it is strange to see the company be quiet after (what I can presume was) a great ballot run.
Given how much they supported last time and how much people are STILL wanting her in Smash, I can't see 2. being true.
 

MoveMan1

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It is possible that they just don't feel like talking about it. I know Yacht Club didn't bring it up for a while, and then they retweeted a article that was all "ten guys we want in smash", and Shovel Knight was one of those ten. Interestingly, the same article brought up Shantae on the list, and Wayforward didn't retweet it.
 

conTAgi0n

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It's probably a bad idea to read too much into what game developers do or don't tweet... buuuuut I agree that it does seem pretty uncharacteristic for WayForward to stay so silent. This is the same company that literally tweeted promotional artwork for their character as soon as the Smash Ballot was announced. And if I were Phil Spencer, I wouldn't want to have to explain to Nintendo why my twitter response about B&K in Smash is within the terms of the NDA. Nintendo doesn't **** around with NDAs.

But really, we don't know. It's encouraging at least.

I agree with pretty much your whole list. But I think we should narrow our focus,
While its cool that shes a strong contender in the overall smash newcomer-verse, I feel its more reasonable to assume Shantae is really only fighting the other 3rd parties for a spot or 2 specifically earmarked for 3rd parties.
This is an interesting point. I'll take it one step further and consider just indie characters. There may very well be more than 2 spots reserved for third parties in general, but indies will definitely only have a spot or two. (I think there will probably be at least one, I think two is very possible, I think 3+ is extremely unlikely.)

So working off the theory that Shantae is primarily competing against other indies for 1 reserved spot or maybe 2 if we're lucky, who is her real competition? Here are the main threats, off the top of my head. Let me know if I missed anyone notable.

1. Shovel Knight. I don't think much needs to be said. He is very popular and requested, plus his game is really popular, it's a masterpiece, and it's still pretty recent. No shortage of moveset potential. His main disadvantage is that he only has one game, for which he's not even playable in the DLC. Also, while he is popular, it's not like he's a household name or anything. Which brings us to the next on the list...

2. Steve from Minecraft. Actually, Steve might be the number one threat. Whether Minecraft is still indie is debatable, but it started life that way, so Steve could get counted as an indie rep. Steve had some presence in online ballot polls and discussion during the Smash Ballot, but not that much. However, Minecraft is huge. He may have gotten more votes than online polling would suggest. More importantly, if Sakurai values raw name recognition above all else, then it's all over, because Minecraft has every other indie beat by miles. This is the most likely way that everyone in this thread ends up super salty about the final roster - me included. I think Steve in Smash would be really dumb. Minecraft should have a stage, not a character.

The biggest obstacles for Steve are that his indie status is highly questionable at this point (and he could certainly never be called a "Nindie"), and Nintendo would have to negotiate with Microsoft to get him in the game. The more I think about this one though, the more it seems like such a Sakurai thing to do. Let's move on.

3. Undertale rep. This is a distant third. Undertale was a big hit, and I see Sans for Smash mentioned a lot. However, it seems to be universally a joke. I don't know why, since I haven't played Undertale yet, but I gather there's some good reason he wouldn't fit as a playable character in Smash. Maybe some other Undertale character would though.

...

And this is the awkward moment while writing this post when I realized that, frankly, very few indie characters really stand a chance at getting a spot in Smash. There are a handful I can at least mention, but I don't think any of them have much of a shot.

Quote from Cave Story. Great game, but only one game, and it was a long time ago. He's well-known, but not enough to compensate for how long ago his game came out. Plus it's been released on Nintendo consoles, but not really a close history with Nintendo.

Isaac from Binding of Isaac. It had an early release on Nintendo Switch at least, but I really don't see this one happening.

Meat Boy. He's in a similar situation as Quote, minus the moveset potential and the appearances on Nintendo consoles (until very recently).

SteamWorld rep. This series has a lot of Nintendo releases, but it doesn't have enough recognition, or a clear choice for a main character to make it into Smash.

Lilac from Freedom Planet. Doesn't have nearly enough recognition to make it into Smash.

Owlboy. Only recently came to Nintendo, not THAT well-known, and from what I understand, he doesn't even attack in his game, so I'm not sure how this would work.

Yooka-laylee. Only one game that received a meh reception.

Commander Video. He got a trophy in Smash, so that's pretty cool, right? I don't see the moveset potential here, and nobody is asking for this character. Commander Video isn't even that well-known anymore.


Beyond that, I don't know... Gunman Clive, I guess? Dillon's Rolling Western?

So, IF Nintendo and/or Sakurai decide that there should be some form of indie representation in the cast, then it is really just 2-3 characters competing for 1-2 spots.

If there is no reserved indie slot, then Shantae is competing with all the other third parties, probably for somewhere in the ballpark of 3-5 new third party spots. An incomplete list of the main competitors would be Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Shovel Knight, Rayman, Bomber Man, Doom Guy, Dark Souls rep, Castlevania rep, Steve, and Sora. Really though, anything is possible.
 
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