Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[SneakyLink]

I am back to support my favorite Half-Genie Hero!

 

[Astraltar]

I enjoyed the last 3 Shantae games. I couldn't get into the first one on Gameboy Color though. And i'd enjoy seeing her in Smash, as would the developers at Way Forward. They were begging for her inclusion in SSB4 (and I think even Brawl) But now that she has more games under her belt, her chances are probably much better. I'll consider myself a Shantae supporter.

 

[Eisendrachen]

I seem to be supporting a lot of longshot characters, so one more for the glorious shotgun!

Though Shantae may have better chances than my others. So there's that. I do see I need to go make a preorder, though...

 

[Alex Night]

Sign me up! I've been wanting this genie in Smash Bros for as long as Smash 4 has been announced.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Shantae and fellow indie Shovel Knight stand to gain the most from the ballot. Here's where we see who had the better vote bots more vocal fans.

 

[conTAgi0n]

NEWS
Pirate's Curse is coming to the Switch!
https://nintendoeverything.com/shantae-the-pirates-curse-coming-to-switch-out-next-week/

DISCUSSION
What do you all think of Shantae's chances at this point, now that we know Smash is coming to the Switch?

Here are my own opinions. TL;DR at the bottom.

At first, I was feeling kind of pessimistic. I really felt like Shantae fervor peaked during the Smash Ballot days. Also, this is maybe a topic for a different post, but I felt HGH was a very good game but not a great game. On top of that, HGH was multiplat from the start, and there have been a lot of very prominent 3rd party and indie games on the Switch that have made a big splash, for example Snipperclips. In other words, lots of potential rivals for Shantae's spot have kind of overshadowed her on the Switch.

After thinking about it a little more though, I think her chances are actually pretty decent.

When Bayonetta was announced as the one and only winner of the Smash Ballot, I was pretty salty, because I felt like the whole ordeal must have been a sham. How could Bayonetta already be that far along in development, when the ballot had concluded less than 2 months previously, and they had two other characters in the works at the same time? It seems a lot more likely that they began work long before the ballot was over, and quite possibly before it even started. What was the point of all all that ballot campaigning if Nintendo had already picked a winner from the start? Why did they even have a ballot if they were going to rig it?

Now that we know Smash is coming to Switch THIS YEAR, that all makes a lot more sense. Most likely, the true purpose of the Smash Ballot was to collect data on new characters to include in Smash on the Switch, rather than the Smash 4. Using all that valuable information to boost a new Smash on a new console makes more sense than squeezing a little extra DLC out of Smash 4 more than a year after its prime. Holding the Smash Ballot roughly 3 years before Smash on Switch also gives them time to fully and properly develop the characters in time for the game's release, and to settle the necessary legal arrangements in the case of third party characters.

If they are indeed using Smash Ballot data to help decide on roster additions, that bodes very well for Shantae. No character gained more from the Smash Ballot than Shantae did. Shantae became one of the most discussed characters, and according to the very imperfect but also very plentiful online polls, one of the most popular as well. And she is still significantly more popular and prominent than she used to be as a result of the ballot.

Finally, I remember reading an interesting tidbit from this post on the HGH Kickstarter:

Happy Nintendo Switch Day!

Last but not least, are you buying the new Nintendo Switch? The team over here is excited for Switch, and WayForward is a Switch developer. And yet, we haven’t announced… anything at all? It makes you think we’re up to something. It’s all so suspicious! Don't worry - we'll have more info for you soon. Enjoy launch day, and we’ll see you on the other side!

Now okay, this was probably just hinting at Half Genie Hero coming to Switch, which I don't believe was announced at the time... but it is just a little strange that they weren't listed early as one of the many Switch developers. Based on how early HGH released on the Switch, they were definitely working on it well before the console's launch. Is it possible that as part of a NDA related to Shantae's inclusion in Smash, both Nintendo and WayForward played down their status as a Switch developer? I know I'm kind of reaching here, but hey, it's possible, right?



TL;DR: Despite being overshadowed by other 3rd parties and indies on the Switch, Shantae probably still has significantly better chances of making it than you might think, because of how wildly popular she was during the Smash Ballot, which Nintendo was probably planning to use for decisions on Smash Switch rather than Smash 4 all along.

 

[SethTheMage]

Fully on board with Shantae since I played Pirate's Curse in 2014. She and Shovel Knight would be the perfect candidates to represent the indie scene, but I lean more towards Shantae if I had to pick one. Her transformations make for easy specials or Smash attacks (I can already see her elephant doing a shoulder bash for fsmash), and she has plenty to work with besides that to fill out a unique moveset.

 

[ProtoTwi]

If Sakurai wants a "3rd party western indie character" he has 2 big contenders. Shantae and Shovel Knight.
From what I understand, Wayforward has really been pushing Shantae super hard in japan and having great success. And generally shes more popular then our spaded friend in the east. (i have no hard data so its just my personal experience)

And with her winning that one big Reddit poll with over 2000 votes her shes must have at least caught Sakurai's eye.

Plus I find it kinda off that Wayforward employees (on twitter) are rather quiet about Smash being announced. They have been vocal about Shantae in smash even before the ballot. its probably nothing, i just find it odd.

 

[Shinuto]

I hope her games being released on Switch means higher chances. both HGH and PC are coming to Switch very soon.

 

[conTAgi0n]

If Sakurai wants a "3rd party western indie character" he has 2 big contenders. Shantae and Shovel Knight.
From what I understand, Wayforward has really been pushing Shantae super hard in japan and having great success. And generally shes more popular then our spaded friend in the east. (i have no hard data so its just my personal experience)

And with her winning that one big Reddit poll with over 2000 votes her shes must have at least caught Sakurai's eye.

Plus I find it kinda off that Wayforward employees (on twitter) are rather quiet about Smash being announced. They have been vocal about Shantae in smash even before the ballot. its probably nothing, i just find it odd.

I think these are all very good points. Sakurai may not have seen the Reddit poll (along with the many others) that Shantae won, but that poll is pretty good evidence that she had a strong presence in the Smash Ballot voting, which he definitely will have seen. She definitely got enough votes that Sakurai and friends must have noticed her and discussed the possibility at some point.

None of this is to say Shantae will definitely or even probably make it, but there is decent cause for optimism at least.

Also, I just skimmed through some of Matt Bozon's twitter, and he has re-tweeted quite a few Japanese tweets on Shantae. Especially considering that we know Pirate's Curse on 3DS sold at least decently over there, It seems to me that she has an exceptionally strong presence in Japan for a Western indie character. Can anyone think of a Western indie character who even comes close?

 

[Staarih]

Not sure how big Shovel Knight is in Japan (though I remember seeing Treasure Trove on some list which had games Japanese players recommended to other players), but Shantae does definitely have her fans out there. When HGH for Switch was announced to arrive in Japan like a few weeks ago, the pre-orders of it jumped straight up in the top 10 in Amazon Japan. Now it has dropped off the list but will probably rise again closer to release in May. Shantae also has merch like the Charagumin figure and iirc Rottytops will get that treatment at some point as well. Not to mention all the fan art potential Shantae has.

Not that any of this is necessarily really significant but it could be worse I guess haha! Honestly, I'm more of a Shovel Knight guy, but Shantae would be great as well.

 

[Zem-raj]

Probably old news but here:

Shantae And The Pirate’s Curse Comes To The Switch Next Week https://t.co/ayxxJ5eyyq #Repost #UpcomingReleases #SwitcheShop pic.twitter.com/YWaqzBXtTH

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) March 13, 2018

Another Shantae game for Nintendo Switch.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if they first two games will get Switch ports too.

 

[conTAgi0n]

I wonder if they first two games will get Switch ports too.

The original Shantae game will probably be on Virtual Console when they finally get around to adding that for the Switch. Risky's Revenge could make it to VC as well, but they might have to port a non-Nintendo version, since on DS and I assume Wii U as well, it made use of two screens.

The dream for me though would be a remaster or re-make of the original Shantae for the Switch. The reason most people don't love the original is that it has some rough edges that make it harder to get into. A remaster or re-make that fixes those issues would make all the unique charm of the original way more accessible, which would be awesome because it is still my favorite game in the series. Plus it might help to revive some aspects of the Shantae series that I really want to see return, such as a unified overworld and, above all, the dancing mechanic.

 

[SneakyLink]

The original Shantae game will probably be on Virtual Console when they finally get around to adding that for the Switch. Risky's Revenge could make it to VC as well, but they might have to port a non-Nintendo version, since on DS and I assume Wii U as well, it made use of two screens.

The dream for me though would be a remaster or re-make of the original Shantae for the Switch. The reason most people don't love the original is that it has some rough edges that make it harder to get into. A remaster or re-make that fixes those issues would make all the unique charm of the original way more accessible, which would be awesome because it is still my favorite game in the series. Plus it might help to revive some aspects of the Shantae series that I really want to see return, such as a unified overworld and, above all, the dancing mechanic.

A full remaster of the original game would be better than throwing it into Virtual Console. Maybe give everyone unique art and make the music sound orchestrated (with original graphics and music also available).

 

[smashkirby]

Still support the Half-Genie Hero!

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

So is Bozon the most vocal developer so far regarding campaigning for a character to show up in Smash? I guess her appearance depends on if the interest in her was strong enough for the higher ups to notice, right?

 

[ProtoTwi]

So is Bozon the most vocal developer so far regarding campaigning for a character to show up in Smash? I guess her appearance depends on if the interest in her was strong enough for the higher ups to notice, right?

Yeah Matt was one of the most vocal, if not the most.

 

[Shinuto]

I hate to say this as its a bit offtopic and also kinda mean to say, but I get irrtated with how much support Shovel Knight gets and hoe some people see him as THE indie, when He's still only got one game and is only 4 years old as a series. Its a reason why I think Shantae works better.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Back when speculation for Smash 4 was happening, I hadn't played a Shantae game. Since then, however, I've played all 4, and they're all good games, with Pirate's Curse being the best. I'd really love to see Shantae get her chance to shine in Smash.

 

[Shadow Novus]

Long time no see everyone! Well I'm glad there's still some optimism and support for Shantae going around.

I admit I was very crushed after the result of the Smash Ballot, I felt like all the campaigning was pointless. But reading posts like conTAgi0n's gives me a glimmer of hope. So, here's hoping our genie gets a fair chance

 

[GoldLiger]

Yo guys it has really been a while. When I heard about Shantae and the Pirate's Curse coming to the Switch I knew that I had to support the game plus be here to once again support our beloved Half Genie Hero to be a fighter for the new Super Smash Bros. game.

#ShantaeFor5mash

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Realised something, with Smash Switch not being held back by disk load times or the 3DS, Shantae is free to have a moveset full of full blown transformations.

Maybe even "Hold Down B to cycle forms" if they're feeling bold enough to make multiple movesets in one again.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Yep, I'm certainly down with this. All games played and appreciated on my end that's for sure. I don't believe Sakurai is going to go for transformation characters again, but having her various moves be quick changes into the various creatures? Possible! I'm back on board for her and Shovel Knight, but moreso Shantae.

 

[ProtoTwi]

So it's small and a bit of a stretch. But Shantae has actually already appeared in an official Nintendo game.

She was once featured in Wario Wares DYI.

Spoiler: VIDEO

Now from what I can gather. There was a program where nintendo themselves would have people associated with the games industry create their own Micro game and release themunder the "Big Name Games" And our girl Shantae had a micro game made by Matt Bozon himself.

I know it's a real stretch Lol, but it's at least another small example of Way-Forward's and Nintendo's close Relationship

 

[conTAgi0n]

Realised something, with Smash Switch not being held back by disk load times or the 3DS, Shantae is free to have a moveset full of full blown transformations.

Maybe even "Hold Down B to cycle forms" if they're feeling bold enough to make multiple movesets in one again.

In my opinion, that would be the only good way to do it.

The caveat is that her transformations shouldn't be fully fledged characters. I don't think true transformation characters are coming back, but more importantly, giving a complete moveset to each of Shantae's transformations wouldn't really be faithful to the source material.

In the Shantae games, Shantae's human form is always her most versatile, and the form in which she has the most different moves and abilities. Each of her transformations can do something that her normal form can't, but are otherwise fairly limited.




Thus I think your "hold down b to cycle forms" suggestion is absolutely the right way to go. It would work best for Smash, and it is the most faithful to the games, since it worked exactly that way in Risky's Revenge. Similar to Monado Arts, Shantae can stay in each transformation for a limited amount of time, and then she has to wait for it to recharge before she can use that transformation again.

Instead of being a fully-fledged character, each transformation would have just a couple attacks, be immune to grabs, and be unable to shield or grab. They wouldn't be able to grab ledge either, but that's not as bad as it sounds, because Shantae could end the transformation and then recover normally. They can still all walk, dash, and double jump, and they all have their own unique weight, gravity, air speed, dash speed, etc.




I think 3 transformations is just the right number. Monkey and elephant are a must, and I would propose either spider or tinkerbat for her last form. Originally I thought spider would be better, but I can't think of how to make that work well. The tinkerbat would lend itself better to Smash, and also it would just be plain awesome.

Here is how I envision them:

Monkey: Very small, very light, same run speed as Shantae, but very high jumps and very high air speed. Can climb walls, of course.

A button attack: Monkey claw. Low damage, but disjointed, very fast, and with a pretty good hitbox.
B button attack: Monkey bullet. Fast moving, average priority, relatively low damage and knockback.​

Tinkerbat: Smaller than Shantae, but with similar weight to Shantae. Very fast on the ground, maybe around Fox speed. Decent jumps and air speed.

A button attack: Scimitar swing. Fast for a sword move, with an arc that swings over her head and in front of her. Moderate damage, pretty high base knockback, very low knockback growth.
B button attack: Battering ram. Functions similarly to Ike's side b, in that you can hold down the button to go further, but it charges faster and automatically releases when it reaches its maximum charge. Goes through projectiles and if it makes contact with a shield, bounces back and does high shield damage (since it is a battering ram). Low damage, pretty high base knockback, low knockback growth, sends opponents in a mostly horizontal trajectory. Endlag starts very low but scales up the longer you charge it.​

Elephant: Large, extremely heavy, medium-slow on the ground, very poor jumps.

A button attack: Elephant charge. Travels a fixed distance, moderate startup, high end lag, high damage and knockback, lots of super armor. Deals heavy shield damage.
B button attack: Elephant stomp. If you use this on the ground, Shantae first hops slightly into the air and then slams onto the ground. If you use from the air, startup is very low. Very high knockback, damage, priority, and shield damage. When Shantae hits the ground, the move also generates a shockwave hitbox around her.​

Each transformation plays a role that Shantae can't fill easily: highly maneuverable aerial master, quick grounded zonebreaker, and tanky, hard hitting superheavy.







I'll take a moment to reiterate why I am really not a fan of the idea of Shantae's transformations being used as single moves. An example of this would be her up b turning her into a harpy, flying her up, and then turning her back. Even worse would be smash attacks. Gameplay-wise, transforming for a single move would be super clunky. It would also require Shantae to transform without dancing, which is totally contrary to all of her games. Plus the fun in Shantae's transformations is in getting to roam around and explore as them. By restricting them to simply appearing as one move, you take away the players' ability to really take control of Shantae's different forms.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Monkey and Elephant are musts but in my head the 3rd form would be Harpy and, here's the catch, it would be the last form on the default cycle. That way there's a risk to using it to recover instead of Shantae's default recovery method, whatever it may be.

And while I agree with the limited moveset, I'd expand it from only two attack.

Basically, Shantae's other forms could and could not do the following

Could

• A attacks (ground and air)
• Shield
• Dodge
• Jump
• Dash
• Use items
• Taunt

Couldn't

• Special attack (hitting the button returns Shantae to her default cutie-pie form)
• Grab
• Smash attack

Also, being grabbed would return Shantae to her default too.

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

I'll add my support for Shantae, she seems such a perfect fit for smash. And, this will never happen, but I really want Risky Boots in as her own character too. Hopefully Shantae has made enough waves in Japan to get in this smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well, a new Nindies showcase is coming Tuesday.

Let the rampant speculation begin and unrealistic raising of hopes begin!

 

[ProtoTwi]

Well, a new Nindies showcase is coming Tuesday.

Let the rampant speculation begin and unrealistic raising of hopes begin!

OMGURD SHATAETAE FOR SMASH!!!!!!

lol In all likelihood we will see Pirates Curse in the showcase as its being released Tuesday (i think)

Edit, it is the 20th and you can Pre purchase it on switch!

 

[MoveMan1]

If you're expecting an announcement, it's more likely that it'll be on June 2, aka Shantae's birthday.

 

[conTAgi0n]

I kind of doubt anything else is getting announced for Smash until E3 unfortunately.

Here's a new character poll on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/84x9go/rsmashbros_smash_switch_character_survey/

I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore because the roster for Smash on Switch is probably already finalized anyway, but it would still be nice to see Shantae get some support.

 

[andimidna]

I like her design and her games look fun. I’d like her as a character

 

[Shinuto]

OMGURD SHATAETAE FOR SMASH!!!!!!

lol In all likelihood we will see Pirates Curse in the showcase as its being released Tuesday (i think)

Edit, it is the 20th and you can Pre purchase it on switch!

nah too close to E3 while being BEFORE E3.

 

[Shinuto]

If you're expecting an announcement, it's more likely that it'll be on June 2, aka Shantae's birthday.

too close to E3

 

[Shadow Novus]

I kind of doubt anything else is getting announced for Smash until E3 unfortunately.

Here's a new character poll on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/84x9go/rsmashbros_smash_switch_character_survey/

I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore because the roster for Smash on Switch is probably already finalized anyway, but it would still be nice to see Shantae get some support.

That polls results have Goku as a 3rd party character in third place, and again as a meme character in first place.
I hate the internet >_<

 

[GoldLiger]

Man that "Goku in Smash" meme needs to just die lol. It has been stated over and over plenty of times that only VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS are the only picks. Goku is a MANGA character. I just hope someone can make a serious poll with actual picks of characters that debuted in Video games.

Just in case people will say something on Cloud then remember he did make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories on a Nintendo handheld so yeah the two rule theory still holds.

 

[Shinuto]

I just hope that maybe we'll get a new Shantae game announced at this Nindies showcase this Tuesday, not only cause it'd be cool to know she's got new stuff but also more fuel for her to get into Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if the next game will use some of 0.5GH's assets or will go back to the GBA styles of the last two games.

 

[ProtoTwi]

I wonder if the next game will use some of 0.5GH's assets or will go back to the GBA styles of the last two games.

i laughed pretty hard at the 0.5 part. Thats was glorious.