Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Captain Hazama]

But I want to give them attention, screw the high ground in this, I want to rub it in their faces!

Please don't. That's like adding gasoline to a forest fire.

 

[MoveMan1]

But I want to give them attention, screw the high ground in this, I want to rub it in their faces!

YEAH! Take that, Geno fans! That's what you get for arrogantly assuming your Rpg side character is somehow more important than Paper Mario, Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger! EAT IT!

...That is what we're talking about, right?

 

[Shinuto]

YEAH! Take that, Geno fans! That's what you get for arrogantly assuming your Rpg side character is somehow more important than Paper Mario, Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger! EAT IT!

...That is what we're talking about, right?

No just people on mostly 4chan who vehemently hate her for little to no reason and utterly assault fans verbally. Im gonna have a field day on /v/ if she gets revealed.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Of course
3. She's not in because they never got contacted
is possible too. But I think he would've straight up said "Shantae isn't in Smash and you guys shouldn't expect her to be."

Actually, he wouldn't even be able to talk about smash ultimate since that project hadn't been revealed at the time of the interview.


He acted like he didn't know what project Sakurai was working on.
Tbh, it's likely he was lying. The tweet about his reaction to smash ultimate feels like a ruse. His behavior and strong implication that Shantae is in smash in some form make it hard to say that he genuinely doesn't know anything.

I believe directly stating there is no new Smash underway would break NDA?....

He didn't say anything it was basically a "I don't about anything Sakurai is working on" type of thing.

If you aren't a detective or a lawyer, you can't be up in this fandom. xD



This **** is too stressful!

That's what makes this thread, best thread.

As in ace attorney games, finding contradictions, will lead to the truth.

So yeah... given the unnatural speech patterns and the constant reassurance, I would have to conclude two things: 1) he IS under an NDA and 2) Shantae is an AT.

As I mentioned before, his Smash Bros knowledge is too extensive. He literally mentions every other form of representation, including playable fighter, other than AT. If the NDA is specifically drafted to prevent talk about her status as an AT, then he wouldn't be able to mention Shantae and ATs in the same sentence. He literally mentions everything else but AT.

There is a contradiction in this inference with evidence present before. Namely the appearance of Shovel Knight in fighting games, and the exclusion of Shantae. If Shantae is assist, why is she not in those fighting games while shovel knight is?

If your inference is wrong it could be because he might be including Assist trophies when he says "trophies" or he could just not have brought it up since he had a lot of things on his mind. Regardless, if someone accepts that this means she is an assist, there still needs to be an explanation for why Shantae is missing in fighting games.

It's all very pessimistic in tone.

That could be a result of being self-conscious and being afraid of saying the wrong thing. Or he might be acting and he came across as being overly pessimistic (because inexperienced actors often over exaggerate). I honestly don't think he would have a genuinely negative view of Shantae being in Smash in any form given that he just explained how many barriers there are for indie games.

 

[Teeb147]

Alright. So. I'm trying to look at this step by step, with the latest find,
and first if we look at what James is responsible for, we can see if he matters for an NDA or not. This is info on him:
http://shantae.wikia.com/wiki/James_Montagna

Already, first of all, he's considered a director at WF, but this is all he's known for with Shantae: "He was in charge of the level design on Shantae: Risky's Revenge and was assistant director on Shantae and the Pirate's Curse. "

And it's said elsewhere that he did some designing besides that.

-This to me is clear that he may oversee a few things for Shantae, but is not as largely involved with the franchise a some might think, besides maybe some designing. It's possible that Matt determined it wasn't necessary to inform him about Shantae until (much?) later than the interview in 2017. There's be no reason to until more stuff hits the fan for smash. (like when the game was announced.) James seems more involed in other projects, or maybe directing in general, depending on how much he's there.

It's likely that James did not know about Shantae's inclusion at the time. considering everything he said in the interview.


If he DID know, is the interview damning? No, it's quite vague, but it is strange that he would doubt Shantae's inclusion that much unless he's trying to play it off.
Frankly, it's strange that he would do the interview at all if he knew. I think the likeliest explanation is still that he didn't know. Why would he take the interview knowing he could endanger the contract? But if he did know, he did a somewhat bad job with his poker face, but still did a good job not mentioning anything that would break the NDA, which would just be asserting that she is in smash, which he didn't do.


Now if I try to answer some of Jazzy Jinx 's concerns..

His voice cracks during that monologue and the subtext is undoubtedly Shantae. It doesn't sound enthusiastic at all.

None of us were enthusiastic about Shantae's inclusion in the past, we weren't even sure Nintendo would consider indie reps, but actually we know now they do (with shovel knight), and that they cater to the votes, which Shantae got a lot of. It's as simple as that he wasn't enthusiastic because he thought like some of us did back then, and really he's a gamer, it's clear with everything he tweets about.
If it seemed like he knew and wasn't all glad about it, that's likely a specific interpretation of it, because it doesn't seem like that at all to me. And if I entertain him knowing, it just seems like he's not over-emoting so he doesn't spill any beans. (Like lots of people know to do since emotions can reveal things, like in poker)


As for optimism clouding perception. It's really that any emotion can cloud perception if it brings you into a narrow place of thinking. and especially if it takes you away from a stable approach and place. I wasn't swayed as much by the interview because I know it's better to look at it from a bigger place, rather than jumping into the negative reactions with the mind, just like being desperately optimistic can overlook the bits that could go against it. I'm not desperate for Shantae. I'd love her to be in, but I can be realistic too. I look at the optimistic side because we need it for our aims, which is to see that she can be in. That doesn't mean denying what goes against, just being true to ourselves and exploring the good side about the truth too.


Thanks for reading. Have a good day, and I'll check back in once in a while when I have time.
<3

 

[Shinuto]

How's Shantae faring in wait for the acceptance letter and if it says her being requested for a trophy, be an assist trophy, or join the roster?

 

[shinhed-echi]

YEAH! Take that, Geno fans! That's what you get for arrogantly assuming your Rpg side character is somehow more important than Paper Mario, Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger! EAT IT!

...That is what we're talking about, right?

I'm a bit lost... But I have a feeling this sentence is like the rainbow that leads to the pot of gold.

What's this about Geno?
And I'm also trying to make sense of everything Shantae today, but my hype levels have my attention all over the place, so forgive me.
Have I missed anything?

 

[MattX20]

I'm a bit lost... But I have a feeling this sentence is like the rainbow that leads to the pot of gold.

What's this about Geno?
And I'm also trying to make sense of everything Shantae today, but my hype levels have my attention all over the place, so forgive me.
Have I missed anything?

It's a jab at people who think characters like Geno or Shantae have no chances ala 4Chan.

 

[zferolie]

It's a jab at people who think characters like Geno or Shantae have no chances ala 4Chan.

Its probably best to just ignore everything 4chan says. its full of trolls. Just do what this eva unit does in this video

 

[MoveMan1]

It's a jab at people who think characters like Geno or Shantae have no chances ala 4Chan.

Actually, I genuinely dislike Geno, but it appears quite a few geno fans are in this thread, so I took the opportunity to remind them not to get so smug themselves.

 

[Michel]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Nindies Showcase direct of next week (I mean, too hopeful but anything can happen now)

 

[Shinuto]

Its very unlikely to show a Smash Reveal in the Indie Direct, even if said hypothetical reveal wee to show an Indie, its just not sensible to me.

 

[WingedSupernova]

That's what makes this thread, best thread.
As in ace attorney games, finding contradictions, will lead to the truth.

I heard someone mention Ace Attorney so I was summoned O_O.
Also holy cow I love how much the support for this thread has gone through the roof in the last week. I woke up today to 6 unread pages on here. 6!

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Nindies Showcase direct of next week (I mean, too hopeful but anything can happen now)

Oh we definitely have haha. I personally don't wanna get my hopes up too high since I'll be crushed if I do, so I'm at least banking on her appearance as an AT. That small outlying idea that there's a reason Shantae hasn't appeared in any crossover games since the Smash project plan's conclusion is enough to give me some peaceful dreams though.

 

[Shinuto]

I heard someone mention Ace Attorney so I was summoned O_O.
Also holy cow I love how much the support for this thread has gone through the roof in the last week. I woke up today to 6 unread pages on here. 6!

IF Phoenix Wright somehow got in I demand a Franziska Von Karma AT.

 

[WingedSupernova]

IF Phoenix Wright somehow got in I demand a Franziska Von Karma AT.

I wouldn't even be mad if Phoenix is all we get as long as I get some of that sweet pursuit music and a stage.

 

[Jorichi]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Nindies Showcase direct of next week (I mean, too hopeful but anything can happen now)

It would have to be done very delicately for a Smash reveal not to take away from the attention indies need to stay afloat. So much so that I wouldn't expect it. If there were to be anything smash related, it would probably be nothing more than a tease (and in my opinion, we're overdue for one ;P. ).
But right now we just need to wait a few days until it airs, then we might have something to speculate about.

I'm a big fan of indie games though, so I'm watching regardless.

 

[WingedSupernova]

I agree. If we were to get anything relating to indies as playable in Smash during the Nindies presentation, I would expect maybe a short aside at the end of the presentation stating Nintendo's commitment to indies and saying they'll prove how much they love indies in the next couple months or something.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

IF Phoenix Wright somehow got in I demand a Franziska Von Karma AT.

*WHIPS CRACK* *Gumshoe flees in fear*

Actually, I genuinely dislike Geno, but it appears quite a few geno fans are in this thread, so I took the opportunity to remind them not to get so smug themselves.

Shantae above Geno in Smash ballot!!
I kidd though

 

[Yellowlord]

Well guys: I can finally say that I have played through Shantae: Half Genie Hero's main campaign for more then 30 or so minutes as I did way back then. My main intentions are to at least finish that later tonight once I get back from work and well, in terms of me playing as Risky, Bolo, Rottytops, or Sky, we shall see. I can at least guarantee I'll play them at some point, but as soon as I beat Shantae's campaign, I want to get through some other stuff I've been meaning to get through before the summer break ends.

More notably the BOTW DLC, completing XC2's last few chapters, making significant progress or beating the Mario + Rabbids DLC, and well, we'll see what I do from there.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

No just people on mostly 4chan who vehemently hate her for little to no reason and utterly assault fans verbally. Im gonna have a field day on /v/ if she gets revealed.

One should keep in mind that there are also detractors on here that, while more reasonable, still don't believe she has a chance, due to indies not being considered true candidates.

I agree. If we were to get anything relating to indies as playable in Smash during the Nindies presentation, I would expect maybe a short aside at the end of the presentation stating Nintendo's commitment to indies and saying they'll prove how much they love indies in the next couple months or something.

Seems likely. Either that, or show the Smash logo for a split second, or something like that.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I also think Sakurai doesn't contact everyone involved with the character. Mainly just the main heads. Matt and Erin Bozon could have been conversating to Sakurai anywhere from late 2015 to early 2018 about Shanate.

That would make sense, but does that reflect Way forward relative silence and avoidance of smash discussion? How are the employees supposed to know to keep quiet? They have to know to at least not talk about certain topics. Unless of course those lower on totem pole are not as silent like those under Non Disclosure Agreement. I don't know of anyone who works at way forward bringing up Shantae and Smash though.

 

[zferolie]

I know a few people here said, somewhere, that K Rool wasn't allowed to be in tropical freeze due to Sakurai wanting to keep him as a surprise for this game, but where was that said?

 

[SneakyLink]

Edit: Figured the post I made was a little too off topic.

Anyways, what sort of victory poses would we want to see? I can envision dancing quite easily.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if people started making fan art showing that even the game characters are confused about Shantae's stake on things.

It's one thing for an indie developer like Daisuke Amaya (creator of Cave Story) to mostly keep to themselves and not say much, which is understandable in that case, since he's a recluse. But WF? A semi-big company? It's so odd for an outspoken entity to suddenly be so quiet. Though at least they still actually talk to people on most topics more often than Amaya, but still.

I know a few people here said, somewhere, that K Rool wasn't allowed to be in tropical freeze due to Sakurai wanting to keep him as a surprise for this game, but where was that said?

Here: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

 

[Derpy619]

Well, As an Indie representation in the game, shantae is my #1 pic, even above Shovel Knight. I'd like to support her

 

[zferolie]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if people started making fan art showing that even the game characters are confused about Shantae's stake on things.

It's one thing for an indie developer like Daisuke Amaya (creator of Cave Story) to mostly keep to themselves and not say much, which is understandable in that case, since he's a recluse. But WF? A semi-big company? It's so odd for an outspoken entity to suddenly be so quiet. Though at least they still actually talk to people on most topics more often than Amaya, but still.



Here: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

Yeah I agree with that article, that waiting to bring back K Rool till this made a much bigger splash, and just put the hype much higher then if he appeared in tropical freeze first. Sounds like he could start appearing more in future games, which would be awesome

 

[Shinuto]

Edit: Figured the post I made was a little too off topic.

Anyways, what sort of victory poses would we want to see? I can envision dancing quite easily.

Shantae doing the stage clear pose from HGH.

 

[Veodok]

Shantae doing the stage clear pose from HGH.

But she does a different pose depending on the game mode.

 

[Jorichi]

Shantae doing the stage clear pose from HGH.

As long as it's not Jammies mode clear pose. I cannot take the cuteness overload that is the jammies mode clear pose.

 

[Teeb147]

If I had to bet, I would say that Shantae is in Ultimate in some form. It points to that. Now as far as her being playable, there's some evidence for it, but we can't be sure at all, at this point I'm at the 50/50 stage, lol.

I would figure that not everyone has to sign NDAs, and that it applies mostly to the top honchos, and those in communication and costumer relations.
Since, the least people know, the better. And if someone does find out accidentally, you make them sign an NDA at that time. So we can't be sure of the timeframe for some of them.

I gotta go soon, but before I go for most of the day, I just want to cover my thoughts a little bit about the possible non-compete clause that could explain why Shantae isn't in any other fighting game (unlike Shovel Knight).
We can't know for sure it's the case. But it's meaningful enough, considering there's little reason to keep her away from some of those games, and to me it's what makes me lean towards the case of her being playable.
If they didn't want to taint Shantae's image, would they really have her look like this?:

Lol. I mean I'm playing around abit, but I still think they'd just make sure nothing is overly bad about how she is in another game.

So with that, I leave y'all to have fun chatting.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

But she does a different pose depending on the game mode.

No biggie, characters have more than one victory pose in Smash anyways.

 

[Xevious 1]

I honestly think Geno, Skull Kid, Shantae, and Isaac are the most likely characters. Maybe I am biased because I also want all those characters, but there is good evidence of them being in.
-Geno, Sakurai wanted him in Brawl, he has always been a very popular character, he got a mii costume, and Square Enix is involved. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get in.
-Skull Kid, Sakurai is clearly aware of his popularity as he had to state that he wasn't a character in his AT reveal in 4, his assist trophy is suspiciously absent, Majora's Mask was a mii hat, Majora's Mask 3d came out around the time, and although he wasn't big on the ballot due to him being an AT, he has always been the most popular Zelda newcomer since Brawl.
-Shantae, someone posted a video explaining why she is likely in that summed it up really well. Shovel knight being an AT despite being as popular as Shantae in the ballot, Sakurai would have chose her due to having more history with Nintendo, the subtle hints in jammies mode, Wayfowards silence, lots of moveset potential, and the fact that having an indie character playable in Smash is huge
-Isaac, I'm really only going of that tweet that Sora posted with Marth and Link fighting Ratholos as it was a clear Golden Sun battle reference. Also he was in the top 5 worldwide on the ballot. And he has good moveset potential

I also see Bandana Dee as likely due to his popularity and being part of Sakurai's creation. A rhythm heaven rep due to one almost being in Sm4sh and the series Japanese popularity. Banjo and kazooie are interesting, the head of Xbox said he was okay with them in Smash, Sakurai thought about them for Melee, and they were overwhelmingly popular on the ballot (by far the most popular third party). I also think they'd make great final reveal. The only issue is that having a character from a rival console in Smash has never happened and Nintendo might not like working with a rival.

 

[AngrySun88]

If Shantae isn't in the base roster and she's not an AT, then I think she will probably be one of the first DLC characters we get. We know that with SK Sakurai is thinking about indies, and what better indie character than one who has been with Nintendo since the Gameboy Color days?

Same goes with Banjo-Kazooie for that matter. Nintendo would be printing money with them as DLC.

 

[zferolie]

I honestly think Geno, Skull Kid, Shantae, and Isaac are the most likely characters. Maybe I am biased because I also want all those characters, but there is good evidence of them being in.
-Geno, Sakurai wanted him in Brawl, he has always been a very popular character, he got a mii costume, and Square Enix is involved. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get in.
-Skull Kid, Sakurai is clearly aware of his popularity as he had to state that he wasn't a character in his AT reveal in 4, his assist trophy is suspiciously absent, Majora's Mask was a mii hat, Majora's Mask 3d came out around the time, and although he wasn't big on the ballot due to him being an AT, he has always been the most popular Zelda newcomer since Brawl.
-Shantae, someone posted a video explaining why she is likely in that summed it up really well. Shovel knight being an AT despite being as popular as Shantae in the ballot, Sakurai would have chose her due to having more history with Nintendo, the subtle hints in jammies mode, Wayfowards silence, lots of moveset potential, and the fact that having an indie character playable in Smash is huge
-Isaac, I'm really only going of that tweet that Sora posted with Marth and Link fighting Ratholos as it was a clear Golden Sun battle reference. Also he was in the top 5 worldwide on the ballot. And he has good moveset potential

I also see Bandana Dee as likely due to his popularity and being part of Sakurai's creation. A rhythm heaven rep due to one almost being in Sm4sh and the series Japanese popularity. Banjo and kazooie are interesting, the head of Xbox said he was okay with them in Smash, Sakurai thought about them for Melee, and they were overwhelmingly popular on the ballot (by far the most popular third party). I also think they'd make great final reveal. The only issue is that having a character from a rival console in Smash has never happened and Nintendo might not like working with a rival.

All of those are pretty safe bets and can see them in. I do think Nintendo and Microsoft are buddy buddy enough to get Banjo and Kazooie into the game. They are pushing cross platform play, and seem to be on friendly terms. Plus is free advertising for a Microsoft platform, and they could use this to bring back Banjo-Kazooie series, maybe have them on both Switch and Xbox One only.

 

[Wademan94]

Edit: Figured the post I made was a little too off topic.

Anyways, what sort of victory poses would we want to see? I can envision dancing quite easily.

Well she needs to have the animation of her spinning around in the air since that’s been in the first three games. Another one I want is her monkey dashing to grab a gem and turning back to dance (Referencing the Shantae NAB! microgame from Warioware D.I.Y.). If Risky is a boss/assist trophy, another potential victory animation idea I thought of is Shantae fighting Risky and landing the final blow on her, knocking off her hat and scimitar. Shantae grabs them both and poses for the camera with them while Risky seethes in anger in the background.

 

[Slycrow]

........................

 

[Shinuto]

Well she needs to have the animation of her spinning around in the air since that’s been in the first three games. Another one I want is her monkey dashing to grab a gem and turning back to dance (Referencing the Shantae NAB! microgame from Warioware D.I.Y.). If Risky is a boss/assist trophy, another potential victory animation idea I thought of is Shantae fighting Risky and landing the final blow on her, knocking off her hat and scimitar. Shantae grabs them both and poses for the camera with them while Risky seethes in anger in the background.

you just know someone would make an edit of that with a zoom in on Risky's face with edited letters from Shantae font to make the word "SEETHING" under her.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Spoiler

I personally think that actions speak louder than words ( the interview) ; She is not included in any fighting games but she is in other games, we had plenty of obvious hints in jammies mode here and there, the whole company behaves very silent whenever smash's topic is brought up to them ect
I may be deluded, but to me that interviews does not weight nearly as much as these FACTS.

The bolded could easily be evidence for an NDA involving an AT as well, though. Keep in mind, WF has been trying to get even just a regular trophy of Shantae in Smash for years now. It's only natural they would be ecstatic with something like an AT. Especially in lieu of YCG literally celebrating getting in as an AT.

As for the fighting game exclusions, though I do find it suspect, there's no compelling reason why she must make an appearance in those games either. Guest inclusions are at the discretion of the two parties. Any number of reasons can account for exclusion.

There is a contradiction in this inference with evidence present before. Namely the appearance of Shovel Knight in fighting games, and the exclusion of Shantae. If Shantae is assist, why is she not in those fighting games while shovel knight is?

If your inference is wrong it could be because he might be including Assist trophies when he says "trophies" or he could just not have brought it up since he had a lot of things on his mind. Regardless, if someone accepts that this means she is an assist, there still needs to be an explanation for why Shantae is missing in fighting games.

As said previously, any number of reasons can account for exclusion. Shantae is not required to be in those games. YCG is far more loose with Shovel Knight's appearances. For all we know, WF could be weird about this stuff.

Also, I find it difficult that James couldn't just say "assist" when he knows what Mii costumes are and is a Smash fan. Especially when an AT guest appearance is such an obvious suggestion.

That could be a result of being self-conscious and being afraid of saying the wrong thing. Or he might be acting and he came across as being overly pessimistic (because inexperienced actors often over exaggerate). I honestly don't think he would have a genuinely negative view of Shantae being in Smash in any form given that he just explained how many barriers there are for indie games.

I don't believe his view would be negative either. I took it as him reassuring confused fans that would wonder why she's an AT, not that he isn't actually excited that she is one. Fans expect more without realizing the hurdles developers face to make certain ideas a reality. Even getting in as an AT is massive.

Perhaps, as a Smash fan and as a developer that understands these hurdles indies face, he was worried about fan backlash at her being an AT. Or... perhaps I am just reading too much into it. The thing that shoots up red flags to me is more that he won't just come right out and state his desire to have Shantae playable. Why not specifically state her name? Why opt for vague subtext instead when you, as one of the directors, could offer more direct and more conclusive assurance. I have to assume he's under an NDA.

I think it's more difficult to argue he doesn't know anything because there is a massively stark contrast between when he's referring to Shantae and when he's referring to any other character. If he's not under an NDA, he's free to be as optimistic or direct as he wants. Sure, he could be tempering expectations, but he could also be a lot more direct about it.

Now it could be that we have an announcer situation... As a previous poster stated, James would be involved with correspondence between WF and Japan, so he'd basically have to be under NDA. But, it could be that he's not directly involved in the design process. And so maybe they gave him only a vague understanding as to her status. Much in the same way that they made the announcer call out several different names so he wouldn't know who is actually a character.

None of us were enthusiastic about Shantae's inclusion in the past, we weren't even sure Nintendo would consider indie reps, but actually we know now they do (with shovel knight), and that they cater to the votes, which Shantae got a lot of. It's as simple as that he wasn't enthusiastic because he thought like some of us did back then, and really he's a gamer, it's clear with everything he tweets about.
If it seemed like he knew and wasn't all glad about it, that's likely a specific interpretation of it, because it doesn't seem like that at all to me. And if I entertain him knowing, it just seems like he's not over-emoting so he doesn't spill any beans. (Like lots of people know to do since emotions can reveal things, like in poker)

See my previous response.

As for optimism clouding perception. It's really that any emotion can cloud perception if it brings you into a narrow place of thinking. and especially if it takes you away from a stable approach and place. I wasn't swayed as much by the interview because I know it's better to look at it from a bigger place, rather than jumping into the negative reactions with the mind, just like being desperately optimistic can overlook the bits that could go against it. I'm not desperate for Shantae. I'd love her to be in, but I can be realistic too. I look at the optimistic side because we need it for our aims, which is to see that she can be in. That doesn't mean denying what goes against, just being true to ourselves and exploring the good side about the truth too.

With all due respect, you psycho-analyze people on this board too much. You seem to be under the assumption that I (and others in other threads) are speaking from a place of emotional instability or immaturity, and you tend to dismiss lines of logical reasoning that you find to be outside of your line. Just because you can't infer something in the same manner doesn't mean that the inference is impossible or unsound.

I'm not desperate for Shantae either (despite her being my #1). I would be content with an AT and I would be ecstatic with a playable character. However, I am realistic. Even now, I'd place her chances at around 30%. You might find that pessimistic, I would disagree. I'm very much a "watch and wait" type of person. I placed Geno's chances at around 30% prior to K. Rool's reveal and the confirmation of the ballot being used. Now I'd say he has a 70% chance in lieu of new information. If she can survive another AT massacre later down the line, I would place her chances significantly higher.

You say you'd rather keep the discussion optimistic as "we need it for our aims" but I would posit that a balanced discussion of both detracting views and supporting views is more conducive to her salience as a potential newcomer. If we're all just in here being overly optimistic then we'll be placing ourselves in a confirmation bias bubble. A fate that, sadly, befell the Ashley fanbase. However, having a true to form debate can be great in terms of bringing her cons to light and diminishing their value as points against her.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to "lose" the debate as her cons would seem less and less valid.~

Again, no disrespect. I have no doubt you're being well-intentioned but I simply do not appreciate the dismissiveness of your tone towards myself and others.

---

Shifting gears a bit, I'm interested in the charagumin figures. Does anyone know how often American-made characters are presented in their line-up? Also, I really enjoy their glowing praise for the character:

"The long-awaited Shantae, heroine of the hit action/adventure video game series developped by the US company WayForward Technologies and having also passionate fans in Japan, becomes a resin kit figure! Look at her charming pose that embodies the original pop and exotic world of the game!
Build with your hands this half-genie girl who keeps attracting gamers worldwide!!
2 kind of eye-stickers included!!"

 

[Klimax]

Actually, I genuinely dislike Geno, but it appears quite a few geno fans are in this thread, so I took the opportunity to remind them not to get so smug themselves.

Lol

I honestly think Geno, Skull Kid, Shantae, and Isaac are the most likely characters. Maybe I am biased because I also want all those characters, but there is good evidence of them being in.
-Geno, Sakurai wanted him in Brawl, he has always been a very popular character, he got a mii costume, and Square Enix is involved. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get in.
-Skull Kid, Sakurai is clearly aware of his popularity as he had to state that he wasn't a character in his AT reveal in 4, his assist trophy is suspiciously absent, Majora's Mask was a mii hat, Majora's Mask 3d came out around the time, and although he wasn't big on the ballot due to him being an AT, he has always been the most popular Zelda newcomer since Brawl.
-Shantae, someone posted a video explaining why she is likely in that summed it up really well. Shovel knight being an AT despite being as popular as Shantae in the ballot, Sakurai would have chose her due to having more history with Nintendo, the subtle hints in jammies mode, Wayfowards silence, lots of moveset potential, and the fact that having an indie character playable in Smash is huge
-Isaac, I'm really only going of that tweet that Sora posted with Marth and Link fighting Ratholos as it was a clear Golden Sun battle reference. Also he was in the top 5 worldwide on the ballot. And he has good moveset potential

I also see Bandana Dee as likely due to his popularity and being part of Sakurai's creation. A rhythm heaven rep due to one almost being in Sm4sh and the series Japanese popularity. Banjo and kazooie are interesting, the head of Xbox said he was okay with them in Smash, Sakurai thought about them for Melee, and they were overwhelmingly popular on the ballot (by far the most popular third party). I also think they'd make great final reveal. The only issue is that having a character from a rival console in Smash has never happened and Nintendo might not like working with a rival.

To be honest, i don't think that Skull Kid is likely. The character is great and could be really unique but he didn't have a big popularity until recent weeks (bandwagon effect). I don't think that we can compare his popularity to many characters' popularity. I'd be surprised but still really happy to see him getting in the game. I really think that Shantae is far more likely than Skull Kid since she's FAR more popular than him since we know for a fact that she did well in the ballot.

 

[zferolie]

Spoiler

The bolded could easily be evidence for an NDA involving an AT as well, though. Keep in mind, WF has been trying to get even just a regular trophy of Shantae in Smash for years now. It's only natural they would be ecstatic with something like an AT. Especially in lieu of YCG literally celebrating getting in as an AT.

As for the fighting game exclusions, though I do find it suspect, there's no compelling reason why she must make an appearance in those games either. Guest inclusions are at the discretion of the two parties. Any number of reasons can account for exclusion.



As said previously, any number of reasons can account for exclusion. Shantae is not required to be in those games. YCG is far more loose with Shovel Knight's appearances. For all we know, WF could be weird about this stuff.

Also, I find it difficult that James couldn't just say "assist" when he knows what Mii costumes are and is a Smash fan. Especially when an AT guest appearance is such an obvious suggestion.



I don't believe his view would be negative either. I took it as him reassuring confused fans that would wonder why she's an AT, not that he isn't actually excited that she is one. Fans expect more without realizing the hurdles developers face to make certain ideas a reality. Even getting in as an AT is massive.

Perhaps, as a Smash fan and as a developer that understands these hurdles indies face, he was worried about fan backlash at her being an AT. Or... perhaps I am just reading too much into it. The thing that shoots up red flags to me is more that he won't just come right out and state his desire to have Shantae playable. Why not specifically state her name? Why opt for vague subtext instead when you, as one of the directors, could offer more direct and more conclusive assurance. I have to assume he's under an NDA.

I think it's more difficult to argue he doesn't know anything because there is a massively stark contrast between when he's referring to Shantae and when he's referring to any other character. If he's not under an NDA, he's free to be as optimistic or direct as he wants. Sure, he could be tempering expectations, but he could also be a lot more direct about it.

Now it could be that we have an announcer situation... As a previous poster stated, James would be involved with correspondence between WF and Japan, so he'd basically have to be under NDA. But, it could be that he's not directly involved in the design process. And so maybe they gave him only a vague understanding as to her status. Much in the same way that they made the announcer call out several different names so he wouldn't know who is actually a character.



See my previous response.



With all due respect, you psycho-analyze people on this board too much. You seem to be under the assumption that I (and others in other threads) are speaking from a place of emotional instability or immaturity, and you tend to dismiss lines of logical reasoning that you find to be outside of your line. Just because you can't infer something in the same manner doesn't mean that the inference is impossible or unsound.

I'm not desperate for Shantae either (despite her being my #1). I would be content with an AT and I would be ecstatic with a playable character. However, I am realistic. Even now, I'd place her chances at around 30%. You might find that pessimistic, I would disagree. I'm very much a "watch and wait" type of person. I placed Geno's chances at around 30% prior to K. Rool's reveal and the confirmation of the ballot being used. Now I'd say he has a 70% chance in lieu of new information. If she can survive another AT massacre later down the line, I would place her chances significantly higher.

You say you'd rather keep the discussion optimistic as "we need it for our aims" but I would posit that a balanced discussion of both detracting views and supporting views is more conducive to her salience as a potential newcomer. If we're all just in here being overly optimistic then we'll be placing ourselves in a confirmation bias bubble. A fate that, sadly, befell the Ashley fanbase. However, having a true to form debate can be great in terms of bringing her cons to light and diminishing their value as points against her.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to "lose" the debate as her cons would seem less and less valid.~

Again, no disrespect. I have no doubt you're being well-intentioned but I simply do not appreciate the dismissiveness of your tone towards myself and others.

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Shifting gears a bit, I'm interested in the charagumin figures. Does anyone know how often American-made characters are presented in their line-up? Also, I really enjoy their glowing praise for the character:

Ok, that is a very cool figure and I want her, but money is low atm