Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[KingofUSA85]

I will just close this conversation and say it's Sakurai's decision in the end whether she becomes a playable character, a Assist Trophy or isn't in the game at all.

Its also WF decision. They hold the copyright not sakurai.

 

[Shadowknight1]

I'm personally still feeling optimistic.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

Off topic, but it looks like Pirate's Curse is now officially rated T. : (

 

[Teeb147]

Off topic, but it looks like Pirate's Curse is now officially rated T. : (
View attachment 170034

Does it matter? Bayonetta is rated M.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Off topic, but it looks like Pirate's Curse is now officially rated T. : (
View attachment 170034

Hmmm...I wonder if a certain outfit in the game might be the reasoning for that.

 

[Deleted member]

Off topic, but it looks like Pirate's Curse is now officially rated T. : (
View attachment 170034

LIES LIES LIES it probably was an issue with the rating just like captain toad was rated mature

 

[ジョルノ ジョフラミンゴ]

Who said anything about an unfinished game? Adding more characters is just extra content. I'm pretty sure he'd like to get as many in as possible, but has to balance and gauge how much time and resources there are left before release, to see which ones can make it as base roster or will end up as dlc.

I dunno, that kinda goes against the whole "project plan" they have going on with the roster. What I'm saying is there's no way Sakurai would decide to start developing a new character halfway through development only to realize they don't have the time to finish them and say "**** it make them dlc" it's just not his style. Now it's entirely possible and very likely they see someone like Rex & Homura show up mid-development and decide "We don't have time to even start making them so let's make them dlc" but I don't see them starting development on them knowing full well they won't finish, it just wastes dev time. Of course Sakurai could completely change his dev style have like 20 characters in a dlc bucket, I doubt it but we won't know until release day.

 

[Teeb147]

I dunno, that kinda goes against the whole "project plan" they have going on with the roster. What I'm saying is there's no way Sakurai would decide to start developing a new character halfway through development only to realize they don't have the time to finish them and say "**** it make them dlc" it's just not his style. Now it's entirely possible and very likely they see someone like Rex & Homura show up mid-development and decide "We don't have time to even start making them so let's make them dlc" but I don't see them starting development on them knowing full well they won't finish, it just wastes dev time. Of course Sakurai could completely change his dev style have like 20 characters in a dlc bucket, I doubt it but we won't know until release day.

I know the ideas people have about the plannings, I just dont think it's true to how development works in general (I could be the one that's wrong though, but I gotta stick with what I think is good sense for now).

What I mean is that there's more flexibility than some people think, when structuring things. If they take care of all the priorities, and are good at gauging things, then there can be some or many left unfinished (maybe not even started) that were going to either make it in either way, to base or dlc.
(it also depends who's working on what)

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Its also WF decision. They hold the copyright not sakurai.

I know that, I'm just saying Sakurai decides who get's in the roster whether it be 1st party or 3rd party. WayForward definitely wants Shantae in Smash, but Sakurai might not. But I don't think Sakurai would over look Shantae, especially since he put Shovel Knight as a Assist Trophy in the game.

 

[candysell]

?

I tried showing this on ifunny but then i started getting the hate

That's ifunny for you

 

[GoldLiger]

4 more to go. Pages that is.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Imagine how fast those pages would go if Nintendo would freaking SAY SOMETHING.

 

[Shinuto]

Imagine how fast those pages would go if Nintendo would freaking SAY SOMETHING.

We'd finally beat Isaac's thread.

 

[KingofUSA85]

Imagine how fast those pages would go if Nintendo would freaking SAY SOMETHING.

Or if wayforward did.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

NO ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG don’t 2 cents anything no doubting I just want to be happy

Yeah sure, but don't close out others opinions. I think its good to think about that as well.

 

[KingofUSA85]

Off topic, but it looks like Pirate's Curse is now officially rated T. : (
View attachment 170034

Why did they have to rerate the game? It was already rated. Its not a different game just because they ported it to the switch. Did they rerate star wars when they moved from VHS to Bluray?

 

[Inoj]

That rerate is curious. Although I guess it does not matter all that much in practice. Still, it is a bit strange for a game to get rerated years later after launch.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Why did they have to rerate the game? It was already rated. Its not a different game just because they ported it to the switch. Did they rerate star wars when they moved from VHS to Bluray?

This DOES happen on occasion, actually. Star Trek The Motion Picture was originally rated G, but was later upgraded to PG due to language when they made a Director's Cut on DVD.

 

[Teeb147]

That rerate is curious. Although I guess it does not natter all that much in practice. Still, it is a bit strange for a game to get rerated years later after launch.

Maybe there's a bit more going on than just the release, causing people to rethink entry into the series (like say oh something would shoot up her popularity somehow.. )?

 

[LaBeteNoire]

My guess is that with it getting released again in Japan they might have taken the opportunity to send it through standards again and this time someone decided it should be rated higher. I still doubt it affects her chance as when she would have been selected her games were considered e10 and the most likely reason for PC now being rated T is because of a costume that wasn't going to show up in Smash Bros anyways.

 

[WampaWreckage]

Thanks for your fair take on it all. Tho I do feel there is an important part about Jammies mode that you might have missed.

You can say it's just a fan reference to Smash Ultimate, but the problem with that is that it released only a few weeks after Ultimate was revealed. As in, people not working on Smash didn't know the game was going to be called Ultimate or that the tag line "Everyone is here" would be a key phrase for the game.

If Wayforward didn't know about Smash Ultimate, then when they were scripting and programming Jammies mode all they would have known about the next Smash game would be what everyone else saw in the Inkling reveal teaser. So their plot about putting together the "ultimate" party where "everyone" was invited would have had to have been an amazing coincidence.

Most of these points don't mean much on their own, but all of them happening all around the same time makes things very suspicious.

For me, Jammies mode is an almost guarantee that the folks at Wayforward had some advanced knowledge about Ultimate. But that could just be evidence that she is an assist like Shovel Knight. And that's where the second most important point comes in: Her exclusion from all the indie fighter games.

She has guest starred in many indie games, so we know WF and Matt aren't against the idea, so why not any of the three indie fighting games? We know that indie pogo asked to use her and were turned down, and Blade Strangers made a public statement saying they would love to have her but it would be up to WF and Matt, yet there has been no statement further on that. Having her in these games would only be more money and exposure for them and they wouldn't have to do any of the work, so why not have her in?

Shovel Knight is in all of these games and is an assist trophy in Ultimate, so if the reason for her not being in them is Smash related, then it would mean her inclusion in Smash would have to be a bigger deal than SK's inclusion if she had extra limitations. So this plus Jammies is what makes me almost certain that she is playable in the base roster or planned as DLC.

Hey bro, thanks for explaining an aspect of that point that I didn't see! The fact it was released a few weeks later is really suspicious and I 100% agree with the fact that it's too much of a coincidence when the development team would've only had a short time to develop that DLC.

I honestly meant to bring up the point of her not being in other fighting games, and no matter what approach you take, it's weird. It's like you said LeBete, there's no point for Shantae to turn down other Indie fighting games. Thanks for bringing this up as well, everything just keeps stacking up.

Also, maybe I'm just a dumb@$$, but I never realized that Shantae is basically the face of Indie's for Nintendo. I didn't know she was being supported by Nintendo for 16 years, that's mind-blowing. As someone whose never really had experience with Indie's, it's crazy how I could've glossed everything over with Shantae. During the Ballot a couple of years ago, I never really got the hype for Shovel Knight & Shantae. Fast forward to a couple of days ago, I just thought that Shantae was going to be regulated to Assist Trophy status like Shovel Knight, and never really thought twice about it. Then, I saw that Shantae video and I'm so glad I did. It's been a blast talking to you guys and seeing what a hardcore fan thinks. Now, I will be honestly shocked if Shantae isn't playable in Ultimate's lifetime.

Thanks LaBete for your response and I'm so glad we could have this talk and get perspectives of Shantae fans and why this character has such a passionate following. Thanks for being welcoming when I, an outsider, wanting to discuss Shantae instead of kicking me to the curb. It's been a blast and it was fantastic getting to know more about Shantae and her chances!

P.S. Sorry about the massive delay in a response, especially since it's not relevant to the topic anymore. I wanted to type this response up on a computer when I got the chance because I'm mediocre whenever I type on the phone.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Did you guys hear about that leak today regarding a future direct on the 24th? It’s claiming to have decideueye as the Pokémon rep and having both Isaac and Shantae as assist trophies. (Shudders)

 

[meleebrawler]

Fair enough there.

So…? Unless cowardice doesn't count.

The thing in common with all the examples I mentioned was that they're heroes that people pretty much expect the world from (or at least that's what they think), and fear becoming pariahs should they fail (or watching everyone die because of it).

But as we all know, nobody pays attention to Weegee.

He has little to no expectations set upon him, because almost all of it rests on his big bro. Any nervousness or uncertainty about his capabilities he may feel tend to be counterbalanced by the drive to prove himself as being just as great of a hero as Mario.

 

[Teeb147]

Did you guys hear about that leak today regarding a future direct on the 24th? It’s claiming to have decideueye as the Pokémon rep and having both Isaac and Shantae as assist trophies. (Shudders)

We saw other stuff about a direct around that time. So this one's late to the party. The date could be good, but anyone can tack on stuff. Decidueye's an interesting claim, considering everything. There's too many leaks though, not worth too much time.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Hey bro, thanks for explaining an aspect of that point that I didn't see! The fact it was released a few weeks later is really suspicious and I 100% agree with the fact that it's too much of a coincidence when the development team would've only had a short time to develop that DLC.

I honestly meant to bring up the point of her not being in other fighting games, and no matter what approach you take, it's weird. It's like you said LeBete, theres no point for Shantae to turn down other Indie fighting games. Thanks for bringing this up as well, everything just keeps stacking up.

Also, maybe I'm just a dumb@$$, but I never realized that Shantae is basically the face of Indie's for Nintendo. I didn't know she was being supported by Nintendo for 16 years, that's mind-blowing. As someone whose never really had experience with Indie's, it's crazy how I couldv'e glossed everything over with Shantae. During the Ballot a couple of years ago, I never really got the hype for Shovel Knight & Shantae. Fast forward to a couple of days ago, I just thought that Shantae was going to be regulated to Assist Trophy status like Shovel Knight, and never really thought twice about it. Then, I saw that Shantae video and I'm so glad I did. It's been a blast talking to you guys and seeing what a hardcore fan thinks. Now, I will be honestly shocked if Shantae isn't playable in Ultimate's lifetime.

Thanks LaBete for your response and I'm so glad we could have this talk and get perspectives of Shantae fans and why this character has such a passionat following. Thanks for being welcoming when I, an outsider, wanting to discuss Shantae instead of kicking me to the curb. It's been a blast and it was fantastic getting to know more about Shantae and her chances!

P.S. Sorry about the massive delay in a response, especially since it's not in topic anymore. I wanted to type this response up on a computer when I got the chance because I'm mediocre whenever I type on the phone.

Hey, thank you for giving us your opinion. it's very easy to get tunnel vision when you are only talking to the converted, so hearing your take on things really helps put everything into perspcetive.

I mean, of course all of this stuff seems convincing to a Shantae fan and hopeful, but to hear someone with no present bias agree that it all seems suspicious really helps me feel that we are all still keeping a (mostly) level head about our girl's chances

(I say mostly because we are still constantly running out of tin foil in this thread lol)

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, here's a couple of rules I tend to go by that keeps me grounded. I feel this thread deserve to see these things. I know I'll be quoting them in the future:

Vᴇᴏᴅᴏᴋ's Gᴜɪᴅᴇ ᴛᴏ Tʜɪs Tʜʀᴇᴀᴅ ​

1. Text leaks are always fake.

2. Until real, substantiable, and easily verifiable evidence is provided for any leak, consider them to be fake.

3. If there is reasonable doubt about the credibility or verifiability of a leak or leaker, then it's always best to air on the side of "false".

3. Not all "evidence" has the same weight. Some have more value than others, and every peice of "evidence" should be discussed to determine its worth.

4. Shantae's inclusion (or exclusion) from Smash Ultimate in any form should not reflect negatively on WayForward/Nintendo or any employee therein.

5. Don't make this thread the center of your life.

6. Check your headspace. If you can't handle dissapointment or hype, you probably shouldn't frequent this thread.

7. If you want to leave, don't attempt to bring people down with you. It has been seen to only cause problems.

8. Remember that this is a Shantae support thread, and it is an apparent rarity on the internet. Unwarranted pessimism only makes people upset. If you'd like to discuss why Shantae is not in Smash, you could simply look literally anywhere else on the internet and you'll find plenty of people with the same opinion. We know we could be blindly hoping for a character that wont happen, but frankly we don't care.

9. This thread is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

KoopaSaki

Read this it will help you calm down

As for all of you any text leak that has shantae and Isaac as assists are FAKE!!!

 

[KoopaSaki]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

 

[Teeb147]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

Sometimes you just gotta let people have their opinions and you have yours. What we have, for being playable, is kind of long to explain, we dont have one definite thing that makes it that she's playable for sure. The 'coincidences' in Jammies mode and her absence from fighting games are probably the stongest points for it but it takes a while to explain why. WayForward's silence is the strongest, but that doesn't rule out that she might be an Assist.

She most likely got a ton of votes. Also, she's got a lot going for her, including being expressive, and just good qualities to be a fighter especially this time around

Sometimes you gotta believe some, too

 

[KingofUSA85]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

Because she doesnt make sense as an assist.

 

[ジョルノ ジョフラミンゴ]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

The biggest piece of evidence is her absence from any of the indie fighting games while being in any other genre of indie crossover. Not a single person has been able to explain this away without coming to the conclusion of a Non-Competition Clause, some detractors have said things like "Matt Bozon is just being stingy" which makes no sense since she's in Runbow, Blaster Master, Mutant Mudds, & Indivisible. If she's just an AT I see zero reason for Wayforward to exclude her from other fighters.

 

[Teeb147]

The biggest piece of evidence is her absence from any of the indie fighting games while being in any other genre of indie crossover. Not a single person has been able to explain this away without coming to the conclusion of a Non-Competition Clause, some detractors have said things like "Matt Bozon is just being stingy" which makes no sense since she's in Runbow, Blaster Master, Mutant Mudds, & Indivisible. If she's just an AT I see zero reason for Wayforward to exclude her from other fighters.

That was probably the shortest someone could make it and still get it across, lol.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

The biggest piece of evidence is her absence from any of the indie fighting games while being in any other genre of indie crossover. Not a single person has been able to explain this away without coming to the conclusion of a Non-Competition Clause, some detractors have said things like "Matt Bozon is just being stingy" which makes no sense since she's in Runbow, Blaster Master, Mutant Mudds, & Indivisible. If she's just an AT I see zero reason for Wayforward to exclude her from other fighters.

Pretty much this. Like if all those games publicly said they didn't want her, or if there weren't tons of fans asking for her in each game, or if she just didn't show up in many other indie games, Then you could make the case that it doesn't matter.

But the Idea that Matt is overly protective of her doesn't check out because they have let her appear in several indie games of other genres. And you could say that they only want games of a certain caliber to feature her, and i could buy that too as they are more conservative about her than YC is about Shovel Knight. But were that the case i don't see any reason to keep her out of Blade Strangers. That game has so much polish put into it's design and world and honestly feels very much like a Wayforward game what with it mainly featuring female characters front and center.

Like, the only reason I can understand WF refusing to have Shantae appear alongside Curly Brace is if they could get her appearing alongside all the Nintendo All-stars.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

If you have an inde AT your gonna need an indie fighter


Heck! Sk could be the only indie representing as an AT just like cv was the only indie to represent as a vault trophy here's how i think it goes....
1 fighter
1 assist
1vault trophy
1 item(maybe?)

So yeah she's super duper likely alongside issac and geno

 

[LaBeteNoire]

If you have an inde AT your gonna need an indie fighter


Heck! Sk could be the only indie representing as an AT just like cv was the only indie to represent as a vault trophy here's how i think it goes....
1 fighter
1 assist
1vault trophy
1 item(maybe?)

That's an interesting thought. IF we got an item based off of an indie title, what would it be? If the idea was to have the item be representing a game not already rep'd as a fighter, assist and trophy. So what indie game would be best represented by one of it's items rather than a character being a fighter or assist?

 

[meleebrawler]

The muse has struck me once again for a moveset... but this time for Risky Boots!

I know, I know... a lot of you think she has a snowball's chance in hell of getting in, but I just can't miss this opportunity to demonstrate what I see as perfect Pirate's Curse representation.

Spoiler

Entrance: Gets launched into the fray by one of her capsules.

Ground moves

Jab: Two punches followed by a thrust kick. Don't forget she has some aptitude in fisticuffs due to knocking out Bolo!
Ftilt: Forward slash with her scimitar
Dtilt: Low slash
Utilt: Arcing upward slash
Fsmash: Lights a fuse on her cannon for a short-ranged blast
Usmash: Activates a Pirate Flare that damages with fireworks
Dsmash: Two Tinkerbats on both sides of Risky slash downwards
Dash Attack: Rush forward with scimitar out like in Pirate's Curse, grants brief invincibility but has serious end lag.

Grabs & Throws

Fthrow: Tosses forward & shoots opponent a few times with her pistol
Bthrow: Loads opponent into her cannon and shoots them out
Uthrow: Kicks opponent upwards (possibly in the nether regions), followed by a slash
Dthrow: Throws opponent down to be struck by a Tinkerbat
Pummel: Knees the opponent

Aerials

Nair: Swings scimitar all around her
Fair: Aerial forward slash
Bair: Backwards kick
Uair: Aerial upward slash
Dair: The scimitar plunge from Pirate's Curse. Bounces on a hit

Specials

Neutral: Pistol shot: Fires a shot from her pistol. Can be charged to upgrade it to a spread shot or sticky explosive.
Side: Risky's Boots: The super-fast slash seen in her boss fight in Half-Genie Hero. Charging increases distance and power, similar to Quick Draw
Up: Risky's Cannon: Fires a downward shot from her cannon to boost her up. Can be done three times, the first two allow free action after like extra jumps, but the third boosts her higher and then has her float slowly down with her hat. Can be disengaged and re-engaged at will but can't attack outside the hat causing contact damage.
Down: Tinkerbat summon: Calls forth a Tinkerbat to attack. Can be charged to three levels for different results: level one has it charge forward slashing, level two has it throw a molotov creating a moving, persistent flame, and level three brings a copter-pack Tinkerbat that fires a few spreadshots. They can all be defeated to prevent their attacks, but the copter one has more health.
Final Smash: Tinker Tank: After an initial cannon shot from the foreground, rains heck on her opponent in her Tinker Tank from the original.

This moveset is somewhat no-frills, but I feel it nicely contrasts Shantae's exotic, magical dance moves.

About the silence, we've seen from others that they tend to try & rally support for their characters in Smash when asked about it. Wayforward was no different... until recently.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Hey guys could you give me some of your own personal reasons as why Shantae won’t end up an assist trophy? I got some buds who are claiming that to be the only logical representation.

I'm actually an "either way is an epic win" kind of guy, relating to Shantae appearing in Smash Bros. You know, like Grandpa Joe and the Golden Ticket from Willy Wonka?
At the end of the day, however, there is a myriad of reasons why she's more than just an assist trophy. One is that she ticks Sakurai's design principles relating to characters. She has a form unique to herself, she can easily be picked out in a silhouette due to her design and large ponytail, and she has a personality trait rarely seen in the Smash Bros games: A perky, giddy girl who loves to move in motion. Another reasoning is that, in one way, she could be seen as iconic in the Nindies scene, moreso than Shovel Knight or any other Indie characters currently on Nintendo consoles, due to WayForward's synergy with Nintendo from way back when. And ultimately, there's a reason why Shantae's still out there and is not an obituary: she has fun games that people talk about. Maybe not out loud like Minecraft or Fortnite, but there is a fanbase that will stick with her, no matter the cost. We, as a collective, may be far younger than the likes of Isaac, Geno, or Skull Kid, but we're no less loud than they are. And we have the backing of a company who wants to see this wish come true, the same company that, all those years ago, made Shantae as a whole whom she is at the current day. It may not be Sakurai who necessarily wants her, but the company who created her is a close second.
If even after this entire schpiel they still won't get it? Then I can't be of further help in this field.

Also, for the rerate thing, here's some oof memes

Spoiler: Aquatic Oofs

 

[WingedSupernova]

That's an interesting thought. IF we got an item based off of an indie title, what would it be? If the idea was to have the item be representing a game not already rep'd as a fighter, assist and trophy. So what indie game would be best represented by one of it's items rather than a character being a fighter or assist?

I'd pick a block of TNT from Minecraft just to get that whole situation squared away.

 

[ActualGarbage]

Also, for the rerate thing, here's some oof memes

Spoiler: Aquatic Oofs

I've seen this before. I hate it so much, it's great.

 

[Wademan94]

If you have an inde AT your gonna need an indie fighter


Heck! Sk could be the only indie representing as an AT just like cv was the only indie to represent as a vault trophy here's how i think it goes....
1 fighter
1 assist
1vault trophy
1 item(maybe?)

So yeah she's super duper likely alongside issac and geno

Also what about 1 Mii costume if they’re bringing them back? I think Quote and Curly Brace would make perfect Mii Gunner costumes

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

If you have an inde AT your gonna need an indie fighter


Heck! Sk could be the only indie representing as an AT just like cv was the only indie to represent as a vault trophy here's how i think it goes....
1 fighter
1 assist
1vault trophy
1 item(maybe?)

So yeah she's super duper likely alongside issac and geno

Fighter: Shantae
Assist: Shovel Knight
Trophy: Commander Video
Item: Bedrock (Spawns on the stage. Acts as a small wall. Can't be attacked or moved. Only goes away when it despawns (Can be removed by attacking enough times in a row in training))
Stage: Runbow