Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[TheCJBrine]

It's art; they're not publicly saying anything by liking it.

I doubt speculation is considered in an NDA.

 

[EarlTamm]

Hey, how many cameo's has Shantae made in other games? At leas in comparison to others like SK or a Cave Story character.

 

[Makai Wars]

Hey, how many cameo's has Shantae made in other games? At leas in comparison to others like SK or a Cave Story character.

http://shovelknight.wikia.com/wiki/Appearances_in_Other_Media
Here's a big ol' list about Shovel Knight, he's literally in everything.

Shantae has way less cameos in comparison.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Hey, how many cameo's has Shantae made in other games? At leas in comparison to others like SK or a Cave Story character.

Well, off the top of my head... She has been in Mutant Mudds, Master Blaster Zero and will appear in Indivisible when it comes out. Shovel Knight has been in all three of those games as well.

And if you want to count it, she had that one Microgame that Matt made for Warioware DIY.

Edit: Oh, they were both in Runbow as well

 

[Makai Wars]

Found a list, let's see here:

Indivisible
Watch Quest
Mutant Mudds Super Challenge
Runbow
Blaster Master Zero
Warioware D.I.Y.

Shovel Knight is also in literally all of those games except Wario Ware and Watch Quest, which was made by WF lol

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Hey, how many cameo's has Shantae made in other games? At leas in comparison to others like SK or a Cave Story character.

http://fictionalcrossover.wikia.com/wiki/Shantae

Not so sure about the source, but here's what I could find:

Warioware (She has her own Microgame in DIY), along with Mutant Mudds, Runbow, Indivisible and Blaster Master Zero.

The closest thing that comes to Smash (a platform fighter) is Runbow, a platform racer.

 

[Veodok]

Hey, how many cameo's has Shantae made in other games? At leas in comparison to others like SK or a Cave Story character.

• Watch Quest on the Apple Watch
• Shantae NAB! in WarioWare: D.I.Y.
• Risky Boots is in Hyper Light Drifter
• Idivisible as a playable supporting character.
• Mutant Mudds Super Challenge as a guest character
• Runbow as a guest character
• Blaster Master Zero as a guest character

And for Shovel Knight

• Indie Pogo
• Runbow
• Blade Strangers
• Cook, Serve, Delicious: Battle Kitchen
• Move or Die
• Dino-Run DX
• Runner3
• Rivals of Aether
• Blaster Master Zero
• Azure Striker Gunvolt 2
• Yooka-Laylee
• Creepy Castle (Plague Knight)
• Hex Heroes
• Road Redemption
• Indivisible
• Smash Ultimate
• (TBA) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
• (TBA) Travis Strikes Back: No More Heroes

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Found a list, let's see here:

Indivisible
Watch Quest
Mutant Mudds Super Challenge
Runbow
Blaster Master Zero
Warioware D.I.Y.

Shovel Knight is also in literally all of those games except Wario Ware and Watch Quest, which was made by WF lol

For Watch Quest, would you even count that one? Wasn't Bolo the main character and then she was added in an update? That would make it more of a spin-off than a crossover, IMO.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

The problem is, that one that they liked I was talking about was some fan-art of Shantae, Banjo and Crash standing in front of the flaming Smash Ball from Inkling's reveal. When I checked, there were no RT's from either side, and no likes from Bozon. taking that into account, do you guys think it would violate NDA?

Even if we nyx my first suggestion (I'm not a legal expert), I don't think so. I still consider it a big difference between retweeting and liking. If they retweet it, everyone can see it (which they haven't). Although you can see their likes, you have to sort of go out of your way (even then it's difficult to decipher any meaning behind them liking a piece of fanart that may overtly relate to Shantae/Smash).

All they have to do is reply to one of the thousands of people asking them about Shantae and Smash, or say something outright--but they haven't.

 

[EarlTamm]

I bring it up because the idea that SK was more likely because he cameoed in more games was brought up in RTC, and they believed he was more recognizable as a result. I don't really agree with that mind set, especially since it's gotten to the point of absurdity with Shovel Knight. I love SK and all, but my god, he just can't say no to cameo's. He's like the indie version of Stan Lee, except he just made a really good game other developer wants that association.

Edit: Fixed some spelling error's.

 

[Veodok]

I love SK and all, but my god, can he just can't say no to cameo's.

Ikr. Shovel Knight has over double the amount of cameos as Shantae, yet he's only existed for 4 years compared to Shantae's 16 years. He just feels... oversatureated. Like, I get it, he was in a really sick game that did super well, but why tf is he in everything?

 

[Makai Wars]

I bring it up because the idea that SK was more likely because he cameoed in more games, and thus, more recognizable. I don't really agree with that mind set, especially since it's gotten to the point of absurdity with Shovel Knight. I love SK and all, but my god, can he just can't say no to cameo's. He's like the indie version of Stan Lee, except he just made a really good game other developer wants that association.

That's where the term Shovelware Knight came from. I think one thing people who use that argument forget is that there's no reason Shantae can't also cameo in everything and anything. Wayforward simply turns people down since they have higher (read: any) standards when it comes to their flagship IP showing up in another person's game, meanwhile literally any Indie dev can hit up YC and be like "hey can I borrow Shovel Knight for my game?" "sure fam"

And while it's actually REALLY COOL how Yatch Club is so willing to basically promote smaller studios for free(?), it still kind of muddles the name of Shovel Knight since anyone can get a hold of him, this exact same thing happened with Sonic back when he was getting really popular. There were so many different Sonic spinoffs and all it really did was give people like Ken Panders power over the series. WF has the right idea keeping Shantae's cameos few and inbetween, they feel way more meaningful.

 

[Confirmation]

Has anyone thought of just bringing this up on r/legaladvice or something to end it once and for all?

 

[PichuMain]

Remember how I kept talking about the suspicious gap in blog posts near the Nindies direct right before the Isabelle Direct?

Well, I've done some digging, and here's what I found, starting from the Pikmin music, continuing up until today in chronological order:

146: Pikmin Music
141: Summit
148 and 149: Ryu
[No Number]: Switch Bundle, Pro Controller, GC controller, Isabelle added to photo
134: Isabelle Trailer
136 and 137: Isabelle
145: Shovel Knight
140: Animal Crossing Music
147: Onett
144: Ganondorf (Edit: Memory wasn't posted, but it's pretty safe to assume that the memory is 145)

Still nothing relating to #120 and #121, which should have been slated for the Nindies Direct day. Could they be for Shantae?

Probably. But if thats true, that sounds like a last minute cut. She could be saved for a stand alone reveal trailer like you said. Makes much more sense as a standalone rather than the big names (unless you want to count the salt on day she appears).

I bring it up because the idea that SK was more likely because he cameoed in more games was brought up in RTC, and they believed he was more recognizable as a result. I don't really agree with that mind set, especially since it's gotten to the point of absurdity with Shovel Knight. I love SK and all, but my god, can he just can't say no to cameo's. He's like the indie version of Stan Lee, except he just made a really good game other developer wants that association.

You ever wonder if his cameos is the main reason why he was a "cameo" in Smash Ultimate? That he appears in so many games, that the Smash Team thought there was no need to make him playable? Why make him playable in Smash if he can be found/played in other games? No disrespect to Shovel Knight, but he wouldn't feel special if he can just appear in other games.

 

[Dukefire]

So as of right now, we have two possible trailer ideas for Shantae to make her appearance:

1. Toon Link since it has the pirate's setting. He sets sail towards scuttle town since he spots it under attack (as always in the beginning in every shantae game.)
2. Daisy could respond to the disaster by entering the chaos with her toads since she spotted it from her kingdom (Rules in the desert: Sarasaland Kingdom)

Other ideas I'm fresh out. Though the one with Daisy was based on the image of speculation. Of course, take it with a Grain of Salt

Props to Connorb0t2 to finding the image.

 

[Veodok]

Has anyone thought of just bringing this up on r/legaladvice or something to end it once and for all?

I don't think they'd be able to tell you the exact terms of this theoretical NDA between WayForward and Nintendo (so I don't see the point, nor do I think that's r/legaladvice's purpose) but you go on ahead if you want.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Has anyone thought of just bringing this up on r/legaladvice or something to end it once and for all?

There wouldn't be much point. The exact limits of an NDA are determined by the parties involved. There is no specific rule for what one has to be. An NDA can be as strict as "Don't put yourself in any position where it's possible people can even ask you about X" to as loose as "keep a low profile until we make the announcement"

Exactly what Wayforward is beholden to within this hypothetical NDA is impossible for us to know with out the particular agreement being made public (which it won;t otherwise why have an NDA?)

 

[EarlTamm]

That's where the term Shovelware Knight came from. I think one thing people who use that argument forget is that there's no reason Shantae can't also cameo in everything and anything. Wayforward simply turns people down since they have higher (read: any) standards when it comes to their flagship IP showing up in another person's game, meanwhile literally any Indie dev can hit up YC and be like "hey can I borrow Shovel Knight for my game?" "sure fam"

And while it's actually REALLY COOL how Yatch Club is so willing to basically promote smaller studios for free(?), it still kind of muddles the name of Shovel Knight since anyone can get a hold of him, this exact same thing happened with Sonic back when he was getting really popular. There were so many different Sonic spinoffs and all it really did was give people like Ken Panders power over the series. WF has the right idea keeping Shantae's cameos few and inbetween, they feel way more meaningful.

Yeah, I do think WF have a bit higher standards. They won't just hand her to anyone, there is a trust there. And if the partnership goes into the game, Shantae almost always has to be playable. Also, remember this?

Sure, this sponsor was likely just due to there association through Inti Creates, but I think what happened down the line taught WF about the risks of cameiong and the association that could come from it. Luckily, Shantae association never really went beyond this picture.

 

[PichuMain]

Yeah, I do think WF have a bit higher standards. They won't just hand her to anyone, there is a trust there. And if the partnership goes into the game, Shantae almost always has to be playable. Also, remember this?

Get that thing away from me. I do not want another disappointment in my life.

Get your robot hands off our genie.

 

[Veodok]

Also, remember this?

That image is like seeing a really tastly-looking, bright, crimson apple.

And then turning it over to see the right side is a disgusting mess of rotten fruit and vile fluids dripping down your hand.

D E L E T T H I S

Spoiler: Image

 

[Makai Wars]

Yeah, I do think WF have a bit higher standards. They won't just hand her to anyone, there is a trust there. And if the partnership goes into the game, Shantae almost always has to be playable. Also, remember this?

Sure, this sponsor was likely just due to there association through Inti Creates, but I think what happened down the line taught WF about the risks of cameiong and the association that could come from it. Luckily, Shantae association never really went beyond this picture.

Yeah I think SK's willingness to cameo really had him star in some uh

Spoiler: less than stellar games

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Yeah, I do think WF have a bit higher standards. They won't just hand her to anyone, there is a trust there. And if the partnership goes into the game, Shantae almost always has to be playable. Also, remember this?

Sure, this sponsor was likely just due to there association through Inti Creates, but I think what happened down the line taught WF about the risks of cameiong and the association that could come from it. Luckily, Shantae association never really went beyond this picture.

That picture in particular wasn't a partner ship, just something an artist on one team made to celebrate that both games had a successful campaign.

Also this was WAY before everything went south with Mighty No 9 so Wayforward showing support back then as a "congrats guys" never really backfired on them because it was before anyone knew how badly the project would go and how worse the team behind it would handle it.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I do think WF have a bit higher standards. They won't just hand her to anyone, there is a trust there. And if the partnership goes into the game, Shantae almost always has to be playable. Also, remember this?

Sure, this sponsor was likely just due to there association through Inti Creates, but I think what happened down the line taught WF about the risks of cameiong and the association that could come from it. Luckily, Shantae association never really went beyond this picture.

Yes but the bigger question is why won’t she come to other indie fighting games (indie pogo blade strangers) when developers ask wf to put her in’making her debut as her very first fighting game appearance?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

So... with post #’s 120 and 121 still not being used even after that direct... THERE’S TOO MUCH EVIDENCE WHEN ADDED TOGETHER FOR HER NOT TO BE PLAYABLE! (Sorry, got a little excited there)

 

[PichuMain]

That image is like seeing a really tastly-looking, bright, crimson apple.

And then turning it over to see the right side is a disgusting mess of rotten fruit and disgusting fluids dripping down your hand.

D E L E T T H I S

Spoiler: Image

You spelled D E L E T E wrong!!

Yeah I think SK's willingness to cameo really had him star in some uh

Spoiler: less than stellar games

View attachment 165621

to be fair, Shovel Knight has nothing better to do.

Yes but the bigger question is why won’t she come to other indie fighting games (indie pogo blade strangers) when developers ask wf to put her in’making her debut as her very first fighting game appearance?

Because she's in Smash.

 

[EarlTamm]

That picture in particular wasn't a partner ship, just something an artist on one team made to celebrate that both games had a successful campaign.

Also this was WAY before everything went south with Mighty No 9 so Wayforward showing support back then as a "congrats guys" never really backfired on them because it was before anyone knew how badly the project would go and how worse the team behind it would handle it.

True, but I still think it majorly affect WF when they saw MN9 crash and burn. Not only did it probably put some stress on them and Inti Creates, but WF(Particularly Matt) loved Mega Man. If there was any successor game they likely would have wanted to cameo in, it would have been that one, and yet they did not.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

You spelled D E L E T E wrong!!

I think that misspelling is just part of the meme.

 

[Deleted member]

So... with post #’s 120 and 121 still not being used even after that direct... THERE’S TOO MUCH EVIDENCE WHEN ADDED TOGETHER FOR HER NOT TO BE PLAYABLE! (Sorry, got a little excited there)

What do you mean? Lol

 

[NukeA6]

• (TBA) Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
• (TBA) Travis Strikes Back: No More Heroes

Seriously? Shovel Knight is invading more games than some random a-hole in Dark Souls.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What do you mean? Lol

With all this evidence that’s surfaced and added together to give her an almost guaranteed spot in this game, it’s getting really hard not to become overly excited.

 

[Deleted member]

With all this evidence that’s surfaced and added together to give her an almost guaranteed spot in this game, it’s getting really hard not to become overly excited.

Omg

 

[GoldLiger]

With all this evidence that’s surfaced and added together to give her an almost guaranteed spot in this game, it’s getting really hard not to become overly excited.

Yeah if we take the evidence on a individual basis than she would not have a chance but when stacked together they create enough evidence that shows not only is WF under some kind of NDA but also an NCC. Like seriously who wouldn't want Shantae in Blade Strangers?

EDIT: My last question was towards the fact that fans have asked WayForward about Blade Strangers and Shantae and they have been responding with a typical PR statements(which is not like them at all tbh).

 

[Shinuto]

Get that thing away from me. I do not want another disappointment in my life.

Get your robot hands off our genie.

I think I have a pic of Beck

 

[EarlTamm]

And let's remember that not only is Blade Strangers development based in Japn(Where Shantae has notable popularity), but both Shovel Knight and Gunvolt made it in. I mean, SK is in everything, but Gunvolt is Inti Creates, the people who helped make HGH! And Shantae makes no appearance. That is weird.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

And let's remember that not only is Blade Strangers development based in Japn(Where Shantae has notable popularity), but both Shovel Knight and Gunvolt made it in. I mean, SK is in everything, but Gunvolt is Inti Creates, the people who helped make HGH! And Shantae makes no appearance. That is weird.

And she's highly requested. And they said they wanted her in [so possibly no NDA at least for the time being].

 

[Freelance Spy]

We do not. However, unlike what happened with Dante from DMC (said explicitly that he would not be in) and even Banjo Kazooie (expressed interest, which is something), Matt Bozon or anyone else important at WayForward has not said anything regarding Shantae's potential inclusion in Smash. They're avoiding the topic altogether. Personally, considering all the legal things that companies need to abide with these sort of things, I think it's better that we do not know whether they were approached.

Heck, even Yacht Club has stated on Twitter, explicitly, that Shovel Knight has a "0.001% chance of getting in Smash" back either late 2016 or early 2017--which would be a strike against potential NDA on their part as you could not state either way if you were under such an agreement. And as we know, Shovel Knight is an assist trophy (which could have happened in between their statement and now considering ATs take less time to develop, or companies whose characters are getting in as ATs do not have as strict conditions on their agreements, or a combination of the two). One interesting point to consider here is that WayForward have been quiet about Shantae in Smash (late 2015 / early 2016) much longer than Yacht Club has regarding Shovel Knight in Smash (late 2016 / early 2017). I think the time period is something definitely worth considering. This could potentially mean WayForward was approached by Nintendo around the theorized "critical time period" for early development on Smash Ultimate (late 2015 / early 2016).

If Shantae is not playable or an AT, or even included in Smash for that matter, there would be no reason for WF to avoid even talking about Smash. This is especially true because we have plenty of counter examples (as mentioned above: Dante, Banjo Kazooie, and Shovel Knight). WayForward could have told us a thousand times over: "Shantae is not in Smash", just like what happened with Dante.

Can I plagerize this for my video? I'm still working on it but you've got some good lines here.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

So... with post #’s 120 and 121 still not being used even after that direct... THERE’S TOO MUCH EVIDENCE WHEN ADDED TOGETHER FOR HER NOT TO BE PLAYABLE! (Sorry, got a little excited there)

A character and a memory slot? Or could it be more for a stage and a piece of music? I don't know, actually...!
Can I request a refresher for the Blog Slot leaks?

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Can I plagerize this for my video? I'm still working on it but you've got some good lines here.

Go right ahead! Though you might want to scroll through some posts below that one, because we go over how it is known that Indie Pogo devs actually reached out to WayForward, only to be turned down (in other words, we actually do have some info regarding people reaching out to WayForward on some projects)..

 

[Freelance Spy]

who thinks we'll get a smash direct in early october? mid maybe?

October 9th would line up with past announcements, and my birthday!

Woah 10k replies on this? Perhaps it's my lucky day, which might mean all of our lucky day...

 

[Deleted member]

WEVE HIT 10’000 REPLYS YALL!!!!!