Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[DeltaSceptile]

Can I just say one thing really quick? Don't expect any less than 3 unique newcomers and at least 3 echoes. The last smash direct had 2 unique, and 3 echoes, so I expect at least those numbers, with the same amount of character reveals in a smash direct next month with at least one unique fighter being announced in november. Some people here are forgetting this is Sakurai we're talking about. He probably is ready with two characters to reveal just before launch in a fifty fact extravaganza of sorts. Also take this advice: Don't listen to ANY leaks, even if they have guessed one thing right!

 

[Deleted member]

I hate This

Well there is this

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Pretty much this is my take so far on the box stuff.

"not Decidueye or the rock dog"??? Now they gotta discount my number 2 most wanted pokemon for smash?

 

[Shadowknight1]

"not Decidueye or the rock dog"??? Now they gotta discount my number 2 most wanted pokemon for smash?

The undeserved shade thrown at poor Lycanroc. Which form would you want in Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Why are we starting to lose hope?! We can’t end up like last time!

 

[DeltaSceptile]

The undeserved shade thrown at poor Lycanroc. Which form would you want in Smash?

Definitely Midnight. Don't think we've seen enough of the bait and punish strategy that he could pull off so well.

Why are we starting to lose hope?! We can’t end up like last time!

Because people have very low expectations for newcomers left now apparently. Don't worry though, because I refuse to give up, considering there can be no less than 3 unique newcomers left.

 

[Geassguy]

"not Decidueye or the rock dog"??? Now they gotta discount my number 2 most wanted pokemon for smash?

well that is definitely not the main takeaway from that link, that's just old "news" from vergeben's leaks that has been around a while now, no reason to take it as fact yet.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Definitely Midnight. Don't think we've seen enough of the bait and punish strategy that he could pull off so well.

I get ya. I like Midday and Dusk forms myself, though if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'd choose Dusk form.

Why are we starting to lose hope?! We can’t end up like last time!

I have plenty of hope! Boxes don't mean ****!

 

[Deleted member]

I get ya. I like Midday and Dusk forms myself, though if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'd choose Dusk form.

I have plenty of hope! Boxes don't mean ****!

I mean you lost a member and there’s This

 

[Moderately obsessed]

hypothesis already busted. Nvm.
I just don't know why you'd wanna blow your wad 4 months before the release. From a business standpoint it wouldn't make too much sense because it gives your game time to cool off.
If the new mode is actually Spirits then I'm sure that will all be laid out in an October Direct to be cute.
I'm still rooting for Shantae.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

well that is definitely not the main takeaway from that link, thats just old "news" from vergegbn's leaks, that has been around a while now, no reason to take it as fact yet.

I was just referring to the fact that this guy called him 'the rock dog' in that theory post. It felt bad seeing that someone didn't even know Lycanroc's name.

 

[Geassguy]

I was just referring to the fact that this guy called him 'the rock dog' in that theory post. It felt bad seeing that someone didn't even know Lycanroc's name.

Ah gotcha.

 

[Mango The Magician]

So...seriously what's to stop it from being rows of 10? Again if they have to remake the mock up to add Isabelle than they can do anything to the box. Also no changing the row count doesn't mean we have to suddenly add a bunch of characters to "fill" each side, it just means that the last row would have to be centered so as to not look awkward.

 

[Deleted member]

EVERYONE CAN YOU JUST LISTIEN TO ME AND LOOK AT THIS PLEASE!

 

[Geassguy]

EVERYONE CAN YOU JUST LISTIEN TO ME AND LOOK AT THIS PLEASE!

Isabelle is an easy guess just like Ridley and K Rool were (seeing as AC is a huge Nintendo series now and was due for a new game announcement). Not taking that post seriously yet TBH.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

Question, why does everyone seem so sure that Ken and Shadow, as 3rd party echoes, are getting in?
My thoughts on the whole "Simon and Richter are 3rd party echoes so it opens the door" is that it doesn't. Simon represents a love for the series in the West while Richter does the same for the East. It was a way to appease both sides with a character to show that they're showing love and respect all over. For that reason I don't think Shadow or Ken are actually going to get in (at least not as echoes). It's also been put out there by leakers... So, there's also that.

 

[Geassguy]

Question, why does everyone seem so sure that Ken and Shadow, as 3rd party echoes, are getting in?
My thoughts on the whole "Simon and Richter are 3rd party echoes so it opens the door" is that it doesn't. Simon represents a love for the series in the West while Richter does the same for the East. It was a way to appease both sides with a character to show that they're showing love and respect all over. For that reason I don't think Shadow or Ken are actually going to get in (at least not as echoes). It's also been put out there by leakers... So, there's also that.

It does open the door tho, the plain fact is we now have a 3rd party series with an echo, all there is to it. Shadow is conspicuously missing as an AT with Knuckles in his place, and a popular pick for another Sonic rep, like it or not. Ken was "leaked" and would be a natural pick for Ryu. Not sure why Ken being "leaked" makes him less likely to you, certainly doesn't for a lot of people, in fact it does the opposite.

 

[DOTBHDD]

The Box Theory makes no sense. Isabelle isn't even on there. I wouldn't consider that theory plausible at all.

 

[Veggi]

*makes a moveset for Shantae years ago*

*comes back and it's on the OP*

Nice.

 

[Mango The Magician]

EVERYONE CAN YOU JUST LISTIEN TO ME AND LOOK AT THIS PLEASE!

We all knew Isabelle was coming since Vergeben """"leaked"""" her, guessing that she would be the one announced isn't hard. Likewise, Ken and Icineroar are characters that have been speculated about for months. There's no reason to assume this person is doing anything but making guesses and piggybacking off other """"leakers""""

Likewise there's an issue here. Shadow has been a part of Smash since Brawl as an assist trophy, and his AT is currently missing and presumably replaced by Knuckles. If we assume that like Isabelle he's getting booted up to being playable than the whole "box theory" goes out the window, because we'd have three spaces left to fill not just two.


...unless we only get Shadow and pokemon and no Ken...but would that really be that bad, do we need Ken?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

We all knew Isabelle was coming since Vergeben """"leaked"""" her, guessing that she would be the one announced isn't hard. Likewise, Ken and Icineroar are characters that have been speculated about for months. There's no reason to assume this person is doing anything but making guesses and piggybacking off other """"leakers""""

Likewise there's an issue here. Shadow has been a part of Smash since Brawl as an assist trophy, and his AT is currently missing and presumably replaced by Knuckles. If we assume that like Isabelle he's getting booted up to being playable than the whole "box theory" goes out the window, because we'd have three spaces left to fill not just two.


...unless we only get Shadow and pokemon and no Ken...but would that really be that bad, do we need Ken?

Nice Job on the air quotes. Also no, we don't """""need""""" Ken at all for this to still be good. It's just that people constantly speculate about him for whatever reason.

 

[DOTBHDD]

Well this is great! Now the only thing people are going to be talking about from now to the next direct is that lame ass 'box theory'. But like, I don't believe in it. I don't think 1 newcomer and 1 echo will carry us into release.

 

[Geassguy]

Nice Job on the air quotes. Also no, we don't """""need""""" Ken at all for this to still be good. It's just that people constantly speculate about him for whatever reason.

The same reason people speculate about a lot of characters; because he was mentioned in a big, yet to be debunked leak. You may not put much stock in leaks, and that's fair, but a lot of people do. All there is to it. Not to mention the minute they revealed echo fighters and changed the perception of clones, people have been coming up with potential echos left and right.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

It does open the door tho, the plain fact is we now have a 3rd party series with an echo, all there is to it. Shadow is conspicuously missing as an AT with Knuckles in his place, and a popular pick for another Sonic rep, like it or not. Ken was "leaked" and would be a natural pick for Ryu. Not sure why Ken being "leaked" makes him less likely to you, certainly doesn't for a lot of people, in fact it does the opposite.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that it opens the door. Now that I'm having the opportunity to speak about it, I realize I don't have much based in fact. Thank you for engaging me.
The Shadow not having an assist trophy doesn't do much for me in the way of an argument. Isaac didn't have an assist trophy last gen. I think it can be cited as evidence as long as your hype is kept in check.
I get that Ken is the original Echo and that whole spiel, but I feel like it was leaked and confirmed as fact as soon as Simon and Richter are revealed. Also who hasn't been leaked at this point, I mean, if we look at who's been leaked from moderately credible sources there will be as many characters add there are stages.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

The same reason people speculate about a lot of characters; because he was mentioned in a big, yet to be debunked leak. You may not put much stock in leaks, and that's fair, but a lot of people do. All there is to it. Not to mention the minute they revealed echo fighters and changed the perception of clones, people have been coming up with potential echos left and right.

I'm pretty sure every leak that wasn't Vergeben was debunked immediately when Isabelle was confirmed not to be an echo.

 

[Geassguy]

I mean, if we look at who's been leaked from moderately credible sources there will be as many characters add there are stages.

Honestly I'd be OK with that lol. I want the roster to get to 100 but that's another topic...
But yeah I get what you mean, I don't take a leak as "fact" and far too many people seem to do just that. Nothing is fact until the game is out or Nintendo says otherwise as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: Also also Isaac being absent from SSB4 just seems odd to me, I can't help but wonder if there was some reason (perhaps legal) he was just gone. Yer right, Shadow could just "disappear" but it would be super odd IMO given how popular he seems to be with the general Nintendo audience. Isaac was more obscure so him just disappearing isn't as odd for most.

 

[LunarLiv]

I thought someone from Capcom actively came out and said "Lol no" to Dante being in Smash. I do think Ken would be an echo though, he's probably the most appropriate echo that could be added IMO. He is one of the original fighting game clone characters! Plus it'd make sense what with Street Fighter also apparently having 36 tracks in the OST.

But yeah, I'm gonna choose not to believe that, it feels like characters who've already been speculated for months + Character that feels kind of odd and out there, and has been stated to not be in there (Probably. Maybe they're pulling the wool over our eyes, who knows)

 

[Deleted member]

I’m still not giving up hope shantae will be the next fighter to be revealed and will be next to daisy in the art!

 

[AngrySun88]

I'm still calling that this box theory is 100% BS.

This is Sakurai we're talking about. The man hates leaks more than we do. Do you really think that he'd sign off on something that shows the final roster amount?

This box is a placeholder image. Believing in the box theory would be like saying there would be no more characters after Ridley because the poster doesn't have any more characters.

And I love how you're all believing in contradictory theories.

This box theory states that we're only one more character and one more echo. Yet many of you still believe Vergaben. He's saying that we at least have three more characters (a Pokemon, Ken, and a Square character that he refuses to name). So which is it? They both can't be true.

So yes, I firmly believe that we're getting more than two new characters and that this box theory doesn't hold water.

 

[loozer2]

I'll try to explain the box art theory as simple as possible in this thread for those who at least want to know how it's laid out.
This is the official box art released. This is the full roster using the simple pattern found.
It's really quite simple. They divided the characters into groups of 9 to divide evenly into the 72 slots on the box art(36 on each side).
The groups of 9 are alternatively printed between the left and right sides in their chronological appearance to the series, with the exception of echo fighters which are placed next to their respective fighter.
The box art follows this exact pattern to the Tee, EXCEPT for when it reaches Corrin. Using the pattern, Corrin should be on the left side of the box with Bayonetta coming after the mii fighters but clearly he is not. The only way this could happen is if there is an unrevealed echo fighter in the group of 9 fighters where Corrin should be, forcing him to the right side of the box into a different group, since we know echo fighters take precedence over the chronological order in which a fighter appears for this box art. The pattern continues perfectly, otherwise.

This is the main reason why some people think the final roster on the box art is real. It doesn't make sense for a place holder to bother moving Corrin for an unrevealed echo fighter. We'll have to wait for the next direct, though.

 

[Geassguy]

And I love how you're all believing in contradictory theories.

This box theory states that we're only one more character and one more echo. Yet many of you still believe Vergaben. He's saying that we at least have three more characters (a Pokemon, Ken, and a Square character that he refuses to name). So which is it? They both can't be true.

So yes, I firmly believe that we're getting more than two new characters and that this box theory doesn't hold water.

They rationalize it by thinking the SE rep Vergeben mentioned will be DLC and therefore not one of the 2 slots.
To me, Vergeben seems like someone who knows someone who knows. An in betweener. So, some of his info is lining up, but there's also stuff that he hasn't predicted, stuff that his source obviously doesn't know or isn't telling him. Point is I don't put much stock in his leaks myself.

 

[Geassguy]

This is the main reason why some people think the final roster on the box art is real. It doesn't make sense for a place holder to bother moving Corrin for an unrevealed echo fighter. We'll have to wait for the next direct, though.

Makes as much sense as Sakurai, who is leak averse, allowing a promo image like that to leak the amount of remaining fighters. IMO it would't be that crazy for them to make a "credible" placeholder just to mess with peoples expectations like this. This IS the day and age of speculation and the internet, maybe they are aware of that. Or, it could just be a slip up and be actually real, hard to say until the next direct for sure.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This box is just a marketing mock up.

Remember when we last tried to figure out how many characters were left by spacing? They shrunk the icons.

 

[Deleted member]

Has this been proven fake yet?

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

Eh, I'm not worried about this whole box thing. As for Shantae's chances, it's not over until Sakurai says it's over.

 

[Veodok]

Has this been proven fake yet?

If Ken and Incineroar are the last two characters in the base roster....

that is a really ****ing underwhelming way to end off the Smash reveals. An echo and the Pokemon everybody wanted you not to choose.

 

[Geassguy]

Has this been proven fake yet?

Not really, probably won't be until the next direct or November at the latest. Some have said Capcom has deconfirmed Dante but I can't comment on that, haven't seen it myself.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Has this been proven fake yet?

YES. ANY LEAK MENTIONING DANTE IS FAKE.

EDIT: Don't know why I had the previous post in here...

 

[LunarLiv]

Here's one of the producers of DMC V's response of "lol no" to someone asking if Dante's in Ultimate. Take that how you will

 

[NukeA6]

Has this been proven fake yet?

If we get any Pokemon besides Incineroar and no Ken, you can throw anything by Vergeben in the trash and call anybody still believing that fraud as naive. Not that he was credible in the first place. He claims he knows who the next Square-Enix character will be but of course he won't say any names because he knows he will be exposed as a fraud and that's why he's clinging on to mostly safe picks.