Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Sudz]

For those who like speculating about her moveset, here's an interview with Matt Bozon where he gives his input on how he thinks she would work, in addition to some other interesting tidbits.

Before you get all bummed out thinking this deconfirms her for Ultimate, this came out three years ago shortly after the ballot.

https://purenintendo.com/interview-what-could-have-been-wayforwards-shantae-for-smash-campaign/

MATT: I’ve usually held that Shantae uses hair-whips as a primary move, and dancing or transforming as a secondary gameplay layer, typically for mobility or utility. And third comes item-based magic like fireballs and such. So if this was carried over into Smash, she’d be a close range player with a variety of hair attacks, and some interesting cosmetic changes into animal form when she does certain moves. Like poofing briefly into Harpy form to recover from a fall, or poofing into an elephant when performing a charged smash. Maybe the occasional fireball throw. Shantae fans have put together a ton of their own ideas, many of which feel spot on. Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

 

[loozer2]

I just wanna get out how I think they should handle her transformations in her moveset since I have time to talk about this now.

Neutral Special: Transformation Dance, similar to Half-Genie Hero, Shantae dances and activates a selection of transformations around her and must select a direction to transform similar to Shulk’s new Monado Arts activation (lasts for 10-15 sec., down B to cancel out) Each Transformation would have one attack and one special attack.

Forward-Monkey (low damage and more taken, high jump and movement speed, can climb walls)
Attack: Monkey Claw (overhead slash, could easily be used multiple times)
Special: Monkey Bullet (weak but fast dash, slightly slower than Fox Illusion)

Down-Elephant (low speed and jump, powerful knockback potential and less taken)
Attack: Elephant Dash (slow but powerful dash attack)
Special: Elephant Stomp (high knockback)

Back-Spider (double jump allows her to use webbing to pull herself up if a surface is above or on enemies to bounce off them)
Attack: Spider Leg (performs an uppercut with her frontal leg similar to the Bonelegs enemy in HGH, effectively attacks enemies above her)
Special: Spider Venom (continuously deals damage similar to flowers)

Up-Harpy (less traction and very floaty, has multiple jumps)
Attack: Harpy Talon (overhead slash, potential meteor smash)
Special: Harpy Feather (low damage, continuously fire them like Fox's Blaster)

As for the Kirby situation, I have two options, either he just copies the Monkey Hat and uses the Monkey Dash (to be fair, he's never copied a dash attack before) or Kirby could have access to the same menu, but just has animal hats and copies their special moves but they're on the same time limit and Kirby's back to normal after.

I honestly think having the transformations being used for a one and done attack is a huge waste of potential, just because the transformations don't exactly have those exact attributes in her game doesn't mean they couldn't be implemented here to make them more viable in a fighting game, I mean the Monado Arts aren't exactly accurate to Shulk's game either. I think this here could turn Shantae into Smash's equivalent of a Swiss army knife if used effectively, the monkey being a hit-and-run kind of character, the elephant for a tank that specializes in knocking enemies far away and dealing final blows, the spider as either a keep-away or luring enemies into traps type of character and harpy for air dominance.

I feel like the problem with having her transformations work like this is that it constantly requires you to spend time to transform between different forms if you want to use certain abilities. It would certainly make her less fun to play if you had to constantly find the time to swap forms, especially when there is someone constantly attacking you. Unlike Shulk who still keeps all of his moveset with slightly different properties, this would be kind of a burden.

I think that she should have two sets of specials and a mechanic similar to Cloud or Robin. Use neutral B to charge a resource bar with dance that then changes one of your specials into a transformation. For example, her normal Up-B special is a relatively weak recovery using Risky's Canon, but if you have enough dance meter it is her harpy transformation instead that has a lot more vertical recovery and an upwards hitbox. You could do the same for her other moves, like a weak pistol projectile for her side-B that becomes a monkey form lunge with meter. This to me seems better and wouldn't cripple you completely if someone was pressuring you.

 

[Shinuto]

Here's something, whats the most ridiculous claim you've seen a Shantae hater (that being her getting into Smash in some manner) make?

Here's one I've seen more than once...

"All the actions from WaayForward is just them messing with people to use the potential of Shantae in Smash as free advertising! She's not in the game, them saying she isn't in would be bad for them since it would stop all the talk and speculation about her being in Smash."

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

smol ****** shantae

 

[Sudz]

smol ****** shantae

Her smol sprites make sense to me

 

[EarlTamm]

Here's something, whats the most ridiculous claim you've seen a Shantae hater (that being her getting into Smash in some manner) make?

Here's one I've seen more than once...

"All the actions from WaayForward is just them messing with people to use the potential of Shantae in Smash as free advertising! She's not in the game, them saying she isn't in would be bad for them since it would stop all the talk and speculation about her being in Smash."

Whoever says that clearly does not understand WF. They have always valued there fans, from both a personal and financial standpoint. Personal in how connected they are to each other, and financial because WF lives and dies by there fans, and doing something that could possibly risk alienating there fans even the slightest would be a no go for them.

 

[Baws]

For those who like speculating about her moveset, here's an interview with Matt Bozon where he gives his input on how he thinks she would work, in addition to some other interesting tidbits.

Before you get all bummed out thinking this deconfirms her for Ultimate, this came out three years ago shortly after the ballot.

https://purenintendo.com/interview-what-could-have-been-wayforwards-shantae-for-smash-campaign/

MATT: I’ve usually held that Shantae uses hair-whips as a primary move, and dancing or transforming as a secondary gameplay layer, typically for mobility or utility. And third comes item-based magic like fireballs and such. So if this was carried over into Smash, she’d be a close range player with a variety of hair attacks, and some interesting cosmetic changes into animal form when she does certain moves. Like poofing briefly into Harpy form to recover from a fall, or poofing into an elephant when performing a charged smash. Maybe the occasional fireball throw. Shantae fans have put together a ton of their own ideas, many of which feel spot on. Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

Ah I never knew Matt himself actually said that. Again, personally, I would prefer proportions similar to her portraits, but maybe it is more likely now that we would get a more NES Megaman-style Chibi Shantae instead.

 

[Stephano]

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand the reason I think single attack transformations are OK in Smash is because most cases she LITERALLY has one ability with each transformation.

I'll always stand by my Thoron idea for Shantae's transformations, but no matter which way they did it, I would be super happy just to see that she's in (as long as she didn't get in as a Falcon semi-clone)

Here comes the BUT! But some transformations have *gasp* two moves!!!!! Lol
For example. The monkey would utilize the monkey claw in normal attacks and use the monkey bullet as a side special. The elephant would utilize stomps and possibly its back with the side special being the elephant dash.

I do have one idea that may make full transformations work. What if some moves that Shantae uses would have her immediately transform back into a human? For example, the elephant would not an up-special so when the up-b is pressed she would imedialty perform the move as a human.

It’s a little out ther but I think it’s worth discussing.

 

[EarlTamm]

Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

Hey, can someone figure out the in-between of Pit and Mega Man's height?

 

[Sudz]

Ah I never knew Matt himself actually said that. Again, personally, I would prefer proportions similar to her portraits, but maybe it is more likely now that we would get a more NES Megaman-style Chibi Shantae instead.

I like both, and would personally prefer something in-between her in-game appearance in games prior to HGH and how she appears in this: https://sketchfab.com/models/f4d7cb517c5f47a3bce766f03c39b187

 

[Wademan94]

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand the reason I think single attack transformations are OK in Smash is because most cases she LITERALLY has one ability with each transformation.

I'll always stand by my Thoron idea for Shantae's transformations, but no matter which way they did it, I would be super happy just to see that she's in (as long as she didn't get in as a Falcon semi-clone)

Fair enough, I mean I had a similar idea to yours back before both Smash 4 and HGH were released as welll as the transformation smash attacks

I feel like the problem with having her transformations work like this is that it constantly requires you to spend time to transform between different forms if you want to use certain abilities. It would certainly make her less fun to play if you had to constantly find the time to swap forms, especially when there is someone constantly attacking you. Unlike Shulk who still keeps all of his moveset with slightly different properties, this would be kind of a burden.

I think that she should have two sets of specials and a mechanic similar to Cloud or Robin. Use neutral B to charge a resource bar with dance that then changes one of your specials into a transformation. For example, her normal Up-B special is a relatively weak recovery using Risky's Canon, but if you have enough dance meter it is her harpy transformation instead that has a lot more vertical recovery and an upwards hitbox. You could do the same for her other moves, like a weak pistol projectile for her side-B that becomes a monkey form lunge with meter. This to me seems better and wouldn't cripple you completely if someone was pressuring you.

I was planning on having the transformations be near instant going in and out considering how quick you can switch between Pokémon Trainer’s Pokémon and the Monado Arts, plus the charging resource bar seems like it would take more time than what I have

Her smol sprites make sense to me

I feel like her HGH portrait art design represents her sprite form the best

 

[Stephano]

I like both, and would personally prefer something in-between her in-game appearance in games prior to HGH and how she appears in this: https://sketchfab.com/models/f4d7cb517c5f47a3bce766f03c39b187

Uggg that model. I spent hours trying to port it into project M. I was never successful. It’s such a good model!

 

[SoupCanMafia]

I like both, and would personally prefer something in-between her in-game appearance in games prior to HGH and how she appears in this: https://sketchfab.com/models/f4d7cb517c5f47a3bce766f03c39b187

Eh, I don't think it'd be too appropriate to use InfectedFury's model, mainly because it's just a bit wonky on a lot of things. I would more prefer they use Rafa's model if they wanted, though it's likely that Matt and Sakurai may have made a "compromise" model that could perfectly fit Smash Ult's style.

Though this is just me preferring the latter's more "realistic" proportions and the effectiveness of Rafa's Shantae's pants over IF's Shantae's pants.

 

[Teeb147]

For those who like speculating about her moveset, here's an interview with Matt Bozon where he gives his input on how he thinks she would work, in addition to some other interesting tidbits.

Before you get all bummed out thinking this deconfirms her for Ultimate, this came out three years ago shortly after the ballot.

https://purenintendo.com/interview-what-could-have-been-wayforwards-shantae-for-smash-campaign/

MATT: I’ve usually held that Shantae uses hair-whips as a primary move, and dancing or transforming as a secondary gameplay layer, typically for mobility or utility. And third comes item-based magic like fireballs and such. So if this was carried over into Smash, she’d be a close range player with a variety of hair attacks, and some interesting cosmetic changes into animal form when she does certain moves. Like poofing briefly into Harpy form to recover from a fall, or poofing into an elephant when performing a charged smash. Maybe the occasional fireball throw. Shantae fans have put together a ton of their own ideas, many of which feel spot on. Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

I was thinking of bringing that up, but I doubt WF has the say on what her moveset will be, though they surely have some amount of input.

Even with Cloud, It's Sakurai and the smash team that made his moves. This is just one quote from an interview, but Sakurai was saying how he made the moveset. "We have our own format for designing content in Smash, and they were gracious enough to grant us considerable freedom when devising Cloud’s attacks, animations, and Special Moves. "

Just a small note. I think Sakurai would play the Shantae games or watch gameplay videos and then come up with moves he'd want for the game.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I feel like the problem with having her transformations work like this is that it constantly requires you to spend time to transform between different forms if you want to use certain abilities. It would certainly make her less fun to play if you had to constantly find the time to swap forms, especially when there is someone constantly attacking you. Unlike Shulk who still keeps all of his moveset with slightly different properties, this would be kind of a burden.

I think that she should have two sets of specials and a mechanic similar to Cloud or Robin. Use neutral B to charge a resource bar with dance that then changes one of your specials into a transformation. For example, her normal Up-B special is a relatively weak recovery using Risky's Canon, but if you have enough dance meter it is her harpy transformation instead that has a lot more vertical recovery and an upwards hitbox. You could do the same for her other moves, like a weak pistol projectile for her side-B that becomes a monkey form lunge with meter. This to me seems better and wouldn't cripple you completely if someone was pressuring you.

Well I actually made a moveset idea earlier, that could allow the transformations like in the game via a special attack.
But let me repeat:

Basicly, you could make Shantae's Down-B her dances, borrowing the same concept as Shulk's Monado Wheel, but with transformations.
So it'd work just like in HGH. But with Down-B instead of X and you have to hold the button.

Transformations would have a much smaller moveset than normal Shantae.

I agree that making full movesets for Shantae AND all transformations would be ridiculous.
So making the transformations only have two or three attacks, each with their own unique abilities, would be enough for them.

Monkey Form would be about quick, weak attacks for racking up damage quick. But low attack power and very high knockback when struck.
Elephant Form would be about strong ground-based moves and high resistance. But slow movement, faster falling, low jumping and pathetic recovery.
Spider Form would be about zoning and distance-based attacks, tricking opponent with her web. But weak in close-combat.
Harpy Form would be about aerial dominance and amazing recovery. But weak on ground and slightly less defense.

 

[WingedSupernova]

For those who like speculating about her moveset, here's an interview with Matt Bozon where he gives his input on how he thinks she would work, in addition to some other interesting tidbits.

Before you get all bummed out thinking this deconfirms her for Ultimate, this came out three years ago shortly after the ballot.

https://purenintendo.com/interview-what-could-have-been-wayforwards-shantae-for-smash-campaign/

MATT: I’ve usually held that Shantae uses hair-whips as a primary move, and dancing or transforming as a secondary gameplay layer, typically for mobility or utility. And third comes item-based magic like fireballs and such. So if this was carried over into Smash, she’d be a close range player with a variety of hair attacks, and some interesting cosmetic changes into animal form when she does certain moves. Like poofing briefly into Harpy form to recover from a fall, or poofing into an elephant when performing a charged smash. Maybe the occasional fireball throw. Shantae fans have put together a ton of their own ideas, many of which feel spot on. Personally, I’d picture Shantae as somewhat short and iconic like her game sprite….something between Pit and Mega Man. Not between Peach and Samus in terms of proportions and visual style.

This is practically how I'd see her working. Sorry, but the mechanic of morphing into another form to attack and then having to morph back is not going to lend itself to Smash very well.

I'd say transforming based on the attack input is more likely, and the animation for the charge with the attack would be the dancing animation. The dancing animation for each charged smash attack would be a different dance animation so you could tell which attack was about to happen next.

 

[Sudz]

I feel like her HGH portrait art design represents her sprite form the best

Mm that's fair, but I don't like her posture as much in HGH. There is a certain level of sass in her sprite visual design that is not carried at all in her HGH design, and that sass is vital to me lol

 

[WingedSupernova]

Mm that's fair, but I don't like her posture as much in HGH. There is a certain level of sass in her sprite visual design that is not carried at all in her HGH design, and that sass is vital to me lol

Preserving sass is vital to the continued existence of the human race.

 

[Sudz]

Preserving sass is vital to the continued existence of the human race.

DA TROOF

Eh, I don't think it'd be too appropriate to use InfectedFury's model, mainly because it's just a bit wonky on a lot of things. I would more prefer they use Rafa's model if they wanted, though it's likely that Matt and Sakurai may have made a "compromise" model that could perfectly fit Smash Ult's style.

Though this is just me preferring the latter's more "realistic" proportions and the effectiveness of Rafa's Shantae's pants over IF's Shantae's pants.

I mostly just want her to look like her sprite's proportions and happen to like the coloring style of that 3d model, and also like her face in that one. Not too big on the proportions having a second look.

But more than anything I just want her to look and act like her smol in-game sprite pre-HGH.

 

[Wademan94]

Well I actually made a moveset idea earlier, that could allow the transformations like in the game via a special attack.
But let me repeat:

Basicly, you could make Shantae's Down-B her dances, borrowing the same concept as Shulk's Monado Wheel, but with transformations.
So it'd work just like in HGH. But with Down-B instead of X and you have to hold the button.

Transformations would have a much smaller moveset than normal Shantae.

I agree that making full movesets for Shantae AND all transformations would be ridiculous.
So making the transformations only have two or three attacks, each with their own unique abilities, would be enough for them.

Monkey Form would be about quick, weak attacks for racking up damage quick. But low attack power and very high knockback when struck.
Elephant Form would be about strong ground-based moves and high resistance. But slow movement, faster falling, low jumping and pathetic recovery.
Spider Form would be about zoning and distance-based attacks, tricking opponent with her web. But weak in close-combat.
Harpy Form would be about aerial dominance and amazing recovery. But weak on ground and slightly less defense.

Pretty much how I envisioned it, though I feel like opening a direction controlled UI with anything other than neutral special would be a bit confusing to work with, even if there isn’t a transformation mapped to the direction needed to open it

Mm that's fair, but I don't like her posture as much in HGH. There is a certain level of sass in her sprite visual design that is not carried at all in her HGH design, and that sass is vital to me lol

You telling me you don’t see any sass here?

 

[GoodShepperd]

I think I like Matt's idea of having her transformations mixed into her moveset instead of having a dedicated special for them but I could probably go either way. But I think having her dance as the charging animation for an Elephant forward smash would be cool. Especially since you can charge smashes for such a long time now.

Also for some reason I really really want her pirate gear to be part of her moveset, She needs to spike people with the cannon, and drop barrages of cannonballs on her enemies

 

[Sudz]

I was thinking of bringing that up, but I doubt WF has the say on what her moveset will be, though they surely have some amount of input.

Even with Cloud, It's Sakurai and the smash team that made his moves. This is just one quote from an interview, but Sakurai was saying how he made the moveset. "We have our own format for designing content in Smash, and they were gracious enough to grant us considerable freedom when devising Cloud’s attacks, animations, and Special Moves. "

Just a small note. I think Sakurai would play the Shantae games or watch gameplay videos and then come up with moves he'd want for the game.

Sure, this isn't so much about "hey guys the boss said this so thems the rules" I just think it's fun to get his perspective

You telling me you don’t see any sass here?

I was referring to her in-game design.

In which yes, she 100% lacks the genie sass

Edit: also just realized you were referring to her portrait the whole time. My only complaint is that she looks very anime which is fine, but in smash gameplay I'd rather she be indicative of her game rather than her art and don't think her portraits are conducive to her movement style and such

 

[Wademan94]

I was referring to her in-game design.

In which yes, she 100% lacks the genie sass

That’s just her stance when she’s talking to NPCs, she still has her sass in her default idle:

 

[Stephano]

Eh, I don't think it'd be too appropriate to use InfectedFury's model, mainly because it's just a bit wonky on a lot of things. I would more prefer they use Rafa's model if they wanted, though it's likely that Matt and Sakurai may have made a "compromise" model that could perfectly fit Smash Ult's style.

I just want to see a 3D Shantae

That’s just her stance when she’s talking to NPCs, she still has her sass in her default idle:

View attachment 162856

her movement is so mesmerizing

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I just want to see a 3D Shantae

her movement is so mesmerizing

Still, nowhere near as mesmerising as Rotty.

god, she's just the best...

 

[Wademan94]

still nowhere near as mesmerising rotty

god, she's the best...

I think I’d be cute if in one of Shantae’s idle animations, she imitates Rotty’s idle stance for a bit without realizing she’s doing it

 

[Sudz]

That’s just her stance when she’s talking to NPCs, she still has her sass in her default idle:

I edited my post btw

Anyway idk she looks more jolly and silly than sassy and confident in HGH, to me.

It's the position of her chest and shoulders, I think.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't know, this one is pretty good too:

 

[Kuon]

Sorry, I just don't recall anyone named Holly.




the joke is that I don't remember the girl who erases memories.

This is Holly. She was in Half Genie Hero

 

[Stephano]

Still, nowhere near as mesmerising as Rotty.

god, she's just the best...

That’s a conflict I’ve had since Risky’s Revenge. I never could decide who I like more. I love the sassy, funny humor of Shantae but also the look and dark humor of Rotty. I just hope in the Nextel Shantae game that we will get A LOT MORE of Bolo, Sky, and of course Rotty

 

[Dyllybirdy]

That’s a conflict I’ve had since Risky’s Revenge. I never could decide who I like more. I love the sassy, funny humor of Shantae but also the look and dark humor of Rotty. I just hope in the Nextel Shantae game that we will get A LOT MORE of Bolo, Sky, and of course Rotty

Wayforward should make a Shantae spin-off, which is completely dedicated to Rottytops.

 

[Sudz]

I don't know, this one is pretty good too:

I just don't see it! She looks great but it's still different to me, despite the fact she's literally dancing in that one vs the full hp idle stance of its predecessors (or preparing to dance, in the GBC one)

 

[Captain Hazama]

The thing is that you're implying that Smash Shantae has to stay completely true to normal Shantae when many other characters already in don't follow that rule:
Cloud has all his limit breaks and he's still using the Buster Sword?
Ryu uses a variety of moves from many different games in his series.
Captain Falcon is a racer: he doesn't really punch people
Ganon doesn't punch people either.
Zelda never jumps.

I could go on but you get the idea. I think if they blend her Pirate's curse and HGH move sets it wouldn't be the end of the world since the Smash universe is, in essence, an alternate reality where these matchups are possible.

I beg the differ for the Captain. In the Anime he Falcon punched Black Shadow, and that's all I'm going to say in that because of *spoilers*

 

[Teeb147]

I just don't see it! She looks great but it's still different to me, despite the fact she's literally dancing in that one vs the full hp idle stance of its predecessors

You did say what you like is the confident sass. I like the jolly and silly stuff so I like HGH better.
There's lots to draw from anyway, really curious what Sakurai would pick (or has picked)

 

[Sudz]

You did say what you like is the confident sass. I like the jolly and silly stuff so I like HGH better.
There's lots to draw from anyway, really curious what Sakurai would pick (or has picked)

Gotta have a good mix of both! Give her two fighters, both echo fighters of eachother, that are identical in every way except one of them is silly and the other one is sassy lmao

 

[Wademan94]

Edit: also just realized you were referring to her portrait the whole time. My only complaint is that she looks very anime which is fine, but in smash gameplay I'd rather she be indicative of her game rather than her art and don't think her portraits are conducive to her movement style and such

Mega Man’s moveset is inspired by his sprite, but his design isn’t completely based off it otherwise he’d be a lot stouter and have a larger head. I think her HGH design would work fine applied to her sprite movements

I beg the differ for the Captain. In the Anime he Falcon punched Black Shadow, and that's all I'm going to say in that because of *spoilers*

The anime was made after Smash 64

 

[Captain Hazama]

Still helped gave Captain flavor though.

 

[AngrySun88]

While I lean towards her Half Genie Hero design, I personally don't care what design or moves they give her as long as she's playable and more or less true to her character.

 

[Sudz]

Mega Man’s moveset is inspired by his sprite, but his design isn’t completely based off it otherwise he’d be a lot stouter and have a larger head. I think her HGH design would work fine applied to her sprite movements

Sure, and his proportions are significantly more similar to his in game sprites' than Shantae's would be if she was modeled after her portrait. It would depend on execution ofc. I am partial to her pre-HGH in-game visuals and presence for representing the franchise, but that's really all I have to say about it

Also,

edit: formatting pls

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I was hoping they would use a mixture of the HGH and Blaster Master Zero designs.