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I know I'm not gonna make any friends by saying this, but I think our DLC chances are very very low.
Not because I don't think Shantae could be DLC, she totally could, but because with all this evidence, I am 99% convinced that she is either playable or an assist trophy, otherwise a lot of things don't add up.
I think we either get in, or we sit out until the next one. Which, while disappointing, also makes it a bit more exciting, as the stakes are raised.
Human Shantae has a lot of moves. The animals? Not so much. Two at the most. It would not be much of a stretch to have them incorporated as normals or a single-use specials. Smashes in particular, have the charging wind-up be a dance.
Pirate gear is a huge grey area as far as representation goes. On one hand Pirate's Curse is pretty much the Bowser's Inside Story of the Shantae series in terms of popularity so it pretty much HAS to be represented in some form... but on the other, is that it is simply not in character for Shantae to use them when she has her magic. Doing so would imply she stole them from Risky, something she'd never do, even to her enemies, for the heck of it.
The only way I see this truly being resolved is to have Shantae use her normal magic dancing skills and have Risky be the one using the the Pirate's Curse-inspired moveset. It's how Wayforward implemented it in Half-Genie Hero, and it demonstrates how the two are foils of each other. Magic vs. technology.
Oh my goodness!
I absolutely LOVE the idea of having her Smash windups being dances!
The only issue I see is there would have to be a tell in each one, so it would be possible to read which smash she's using, otherwise she might be a bit crazy compared to other fighters where it's usually easy to guess which smash is being charged if a full charge is being used.
Human Shantae has a lot of moves. The animals? Not so much. Two at the most. It would not be much of a stretch to have them incorporated as normals or a single-use specials. Smashes in particular, have the charging wind-up be a dance.
Pirate gear is a huge grey area as far as representation goes. On one hand Pirate's Curse is pretty much the Bowser's Inside Story of the Shantae series in terms of popularity so it pretty much HAS to be represented in some form... but on the other, is that it is simply not in character for Shantae to use them when she has her magic. Doing so would imply she stole them from Risky, something she'd never do, even to her enemies, for the heck of it.
The only way I see this truly being resolved is to have Shantae use her normal magic dancing skills and have Risky be the one using the the Pirate's Curse-inspired moveset. It's how Wayforward implemented it in Half-Genie Hero, and it demonstrates how the two are foils of each other. Magic vs. technology.
Although I completely agree with you that her specials would be her transformations as they are her signature far more than the pirate weapons were, I do think that two fighters is asking too much (especially two with completely different moves)
As for in character, i think it's completely in Shantae;s carefree and mischievious nature to "borrow" Risky's gear when she knows she is going to be fighting the best of the best. Risky waking up to all her stuff being gone and a note from Shantae saying thanks. That would give her reason to hunt her down with her ship and bomb her as a stage hazard.
Yeah, for a while it was hard to get a message out at any time of day before a new one popped up. Though, I bet it will return to that first whiff of Nintendo direct news we get.
I guess there's not much to say about Shantae right now. But if we did get Shantae in, do you think it's possible to see an echo fighter of Risky Boots? I think it's possible if Shantae uses the move set from Pirate's Curse (not probable though)
I guess there's not much to say about Shantae right now. But if we did get Shantae in, do you think it's possible to see an echo fighter of Risky Boots? I think it's possible if Shantae uses the move set from Pirate's Curse (not probable though)
I don't know if that's true, but it makes sense. I mean, they've wanted her playable since 2015 (maybe even before then), and maybe they just think it's kind of an insult for her to get the AT treatment?
I guess there's not much to say about Shantae right now. But if we did get Shantae in, do you think it's possible to see an echo fighter of Risky Boots? I think it's possible if Shantae uses the move set from Pirate's Curse (not probable though)
Even if she just used her move set from Pirate's Curse and couldn't transform, she still has her trusty hair whip, which Risky can't emulate using any of her gear.
Even if she just used her move set from Pirate's Curse and couldn't transform, she still has her trusty hair whip, which Risky can't emulate with any of her gear.
Risky Boots could use the ribbon things on her headband to whip enemies with. I mean, it's not canon and may not make much sense, but it could probably work
I know I'm not gonna make any friends by saying this, but I think our DLC chances are very very low.
Not because I don't think Shantae could be DLC, she totally could, but because with all this evidence, I am 99% convinced that she is either playable or an assist trophy, otherwise a lot of things don't add up.
I think we either get in, or we sit out until the next one. Which, while disappointing, also makes it a bit more exciting, as the stakes are raised.
DLC is totally fine, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't go there. There'd still be an NDA, every other piece would still make sense. There's nothing that makes it have to be sooner than later. Maybe you just wanted it to be sooner
I want her to be part of the base roster too, but I just want her in in any case. We don't know which fighters were added on to be worked a little later than the others. Hoping we get a good bunch of dlc characters anyway.
I think when that's been said, it was applying more to indie crossovers.
And there is a huge difference between an indie crossover and Smash.
I REALLY doubt if Sakurai called and said "I want to use Shantae as an assist trophy" that they'd try to strong arm him with a playable or nothing, because that's just not a fight you'll win, and would be throwing away a huge opportunity.
DLC is totally fine, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't go there. There'd still be an NDA, every other piece would still make sense. There's nothing that makes it have to be sooner than later. Maybe you just wanted it to be sooner
I want her to be part of the base roster too, but I just want her in in any case. We don't know which fighters were added on to be worked a little later than the others. Hoping we get a good bunch of dlc characters anyway.
I really don't think they started handing out NDAs for DLC already, as that means they already know who is DLC, and it has been mentioned that Sakurai isn't a fan of working on DLC while the game is in progress, so planning DLC at the same time as the base roster seems out of character.
I would love DLC so I hope I'm wrong if she's not a base fighter, but I'm fairly certain of her being in the base game,
I think when that's been said, it was applying more to indie crossovers.
And there is a huge difference between an indie crossover and Smash.
I REALLY doubt if Sakurai called and said "I want to use Shantae as an assist trophy" that they'd try to strong arm him with a playable or nothing, because that's just not a fight you'll win, and would be throwing away a huge opportunity.
I would have to agree to that. Plus, truth be told, I would say WayForward is like Shantae in that they're sort of like a huggable company how much of an oxymoron is that and would prefer to keep their solid relationship with Nintendo up. Plus, even if Shantae's an AT, they still get what they wanted the most (Shantae being in a Smash game and getting exposure).
DLC is totally fine, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't go there. There'd still be an NDA, every other piece would still make sense. There's nothing that makes it have to be sooner than later. Maybe you just wanted it to be sooner
I want her to be part of the base roster too, but I just want her in in any case. We don't know which fighters were added on to be worked a little later than the others. Hoping we get a good bunch of dlc characters anyway.
I think the DLC characters will be more relevant characters, since those would probably sell better with casual Smash fans than the retro or iconic characters, and I think Shantae fits more in the relevant category, so I think she'd probably sell pretty well as DLC. I think she could work in the base game or as DLC
I see no reason why Shantae couldn't be DLC if she's not in the base roster. DLC will be for relevant characters like a new Pokemon, Banjo, Rex/Pyra, an ARMS character etc and Shantae fits that description. We have no reason to give up hope if she's not in the base roster or deconfirmed.
I'm not sure if that's true, but there is nothing to contradict it that I've seen.
I know that some of Shovel Knights guest appearances have been as an NPC like in Yooka Laylee. So if they did have such a requirement it could explain why she wasn't added in there...
Tho, since there is nothing to really confirm or deny this (to my knowledge) i wouldn't use it to get your hopes up any higher.
I see no reason why Shantae couldn't be DLC if she's not in the base roster. DLC will be for relevant characters like a new Pokemon, Banjo, Rex/Pyra, an ARMS character etc and Shantae fits that description. We have no reason to give up hope if she's not in the base roster or deconfirmed.
I really don't think they started handing out NDAs for DLC already, as that means they already know who is DLC, and it has been mentioned that Sakurai isn't a fan of working on DLC while the game is in progress, so planning DLC at the same time as the base roster seems out of character.
I would love DLC so I hope I'm wrong if she's not a base fighter, but I'm fairly certain of her being in the base game,
That might be a good point but companies have to plan ahead too. They might not be working on the characters before finishing the priorities and the base roster, but they'd get things moving and make sure everything is in order, including contracts. I'm just saying in my case I don't think there's any boundary, but I would like to know beforehand and not have to wait so long to know what's going on with her.
If the game comes out and we don't see anything at all and WF keeps silent then there's good chances it was planned for dlc.
Fingers crossed for base roster, if she's a fighter
Everyone is talking all confident if she's not in the base roster, DLC is guaranteed but I can't help but detect a little heart break in those sentences. Guys, don't bring the depression back. We just escaped it not too long ago.
Everyone is talking all confident if she's not in the base roster, DLC is guaranteed but I can't help but detect a little heart break in those sentences. Guys, don't bring the depression back. We just escaped it not too long ago.
I don't think there's anything different from usual.We know it could go either way. Which means there's always a thrill for it as well as possible heartbreak or fear of it not happening. It's just about learning to manage our feelings in whatever case. It's hard to 'only' look forward confidently when we don't know. But it also doesn't do us good to look down on what could be.
I'm feeling pretty enthusiastic today so I feel like going over a few observations I've had recently. Strap in bois and gois because this is going to be a long one.~
Firstly, let's just establish that WayForward (hereafter referred to as "WF") is most likely under an NDA and get that bit out of here.
But those two points together, so what? Who cares? Well, ever since the ballot ended, they stopped communicating about the latter whenever fans bring it up. Obviously, this is out-of-character for them because they both supported Shantae for Smash and they make the effort to communicate with their fans.
So the only two solutions to this conundrum are: 1) they're being jerks, 2) they're under an NDA. Or at least, these are the only two reasonable solutions (that don't involve say, alien mind control replacing their capacity to respond to Smash questions with crippling paralysis). The previously linked tweet (literally thanking their fans), creation of Jammies mode (to thank their fans) and constant re-tweeting and liking of fanart make it highly unlikely that the former is true. So it follows that the latter must be true. (Or else, WF will have a lot to answer for.)
So right off the bat, if we are to accept that WF being under an NDA is true, this means that Shantae has representation in Smash Bros. in some capacity. Which logically implies that Sakurai has examined her character.
Recently, I conceded that Shantae could be in the game in as low of a capacity as a regular trophy (or sticker, if they return). However, in lieu of Jammies mode, I no longer think that this is a reasonable expectation. Before you get your panties twisted though, I do still think that an AT is possible as her highest level of representation, because ATs do still carry a lot of weight to them. Mainly, what I want to argue here is that it's unreasonable to try and justify that she's in the game as just a regular trophy (and outlandish to suggest she's absent altogether).
Keep in mind, we're working under the assumption that WF is under an NDA in regards to Smash Bros. Since I can't find the blasted image I'll let our friendly neighborhood @WreckitRyan explain the Jammies "hint":
In case the timestamp doesn't work, skip to 10:04.
And for a little more oomph since I didn't see certain parts included: moar correlations.
Frankly, I believe there are too many coincidences here to dismiss all of these as mere coincidence. As they say, where there's smoke there's fire. To me, it's pretty clear that they're referring to Smash Bros with these nods. And while I won't be so outlandish as to suggest that they programmed this entire mode just as a love letter to Smash Bros., the inclusion of said "hints" feel too prominent for her to be relegated to a "mere" regular trophy in Smash.
So I'm thinking now, at minimum, she would have to be an AT. Otherwise, what's the point of dropping so many "hints" in regards to Jammies mode (a mode that was made to thank the fans and was given away for free) if she'll only appear as a regular trophy? Some would argue that it's justification enough to say she's playable because otherwise why would she be a "mere" AT, using the same logic. But... sorry, I just think it's a really big deal to get in even as an AT. >_>
Anyways, her inclusion, and in particular her inclusion at the level of (in my mind) at minimum an AT would imply she did alright on the ballot. Well... how well is "alright" anyways?
If a character were to garner one percent of that total, it would be impossible for more than 100 characters to be above them (as each character would only garner one percent; this obviously wouldn't be the case but we'll keep it simple). That would effectively make that character a Top 100, which is a pretty big deal considering Goku there are thousands of potential votes.
It would be unreasonable to assume that all of Shantae's Kickstarter backers voted for her one time in the ballot so I'll disregard that it had 18,000+ backers. However, it would not be unreasonable to assume that she's capable of garnering those numbers. Since... ya know... voting is free.~
---
Here's an underrated point to chew on:
Promotion around the ballot was a pretty big deal. I would argue that being in the mouth of a popular youtuber, such as Etika, could capture a few votes. "But J-Dawg, just because Etika talked about her doesn't mean his fans are going to vote for her". Yeah, except uh...
Just got around to reading your post. You really went in huh? I'm glad you're winding up more and have more enthusiasm. Nice post, and I would just add that the extra stuff in regards to a possible non-compete clause isn't as concrete, but it does make some sense and would add to her chances as being playable. It could go either way, but I think it's safe to think of it as possible either way and open to what form she's going to have in the game. At this point I'm at 50/50. I just have my eyes open and wanting to see which direction it's going to take.
I'd like to say higher than 50%, but I still feel like that's the place to stand for now, and learn to look forward to the possibility as well as be ready for anything.
The only issue with the transformations, is what advantages they will have on the battlefield. I don't think becoming a huge, heavy, slow footed elephant is gonna benefit you in such a fast paced fighting game.
The only issue with the transformations, is what advantages they will have on the battlefield. I don't think becoming a huge, heavy, slow footed elephant is gonna benefit you in such a fast paced fighting game.
Just got around to reading your post. You really went in huh? I'm glad you're winding up more and have more enthusiasm. Nice post, and I would just add that the extra stuff in regards to a possible non-compete clause isn't as concrete, but it does make some sense and would add to her chances as being playable. It could go either way, but I think it's safe to think of it as possible either way and open to what form she's going to have in the game. At this point I'm at 50/50. I just have my eyes open and wanting to see which direction it's going to take.
I'd like to say higher than 50%, but I still feel like that's the place to stand for now, and learn to look forward to the possibility as well as be ready for anything.
Actually, I would say that it's entirely possible that Shantae could really be under NCC, because she's currently slated to be featured in Indivisible (an Action RPG) and she's currently appeared in Mutant Mudds Special Challenge, Blaster Master Zero, and Runbow, all of which are platformer games. Now, I think that it's not a strict NCC where she can't be in anything outside of Smash and her own games, but at the same time, the possibility of an NCC is there because she's not in any Smash-Esque Fighting games and the above mentioned games would not directly compete with Smash Ultimate, whereas the Smash-Esque fighters would create some discord among Smash fans. And one thing that I think helps Shantae out a lot is that Shovel Knight was certainly not under an NCC, due to being included in these fighting games among a plethora of other games, which may have been a hint towards his non-inclusion as a fighter, but an inclusion to being an Assist Trophy.
Though, again, it could just be interpreted with WayForward being stingy with their IP, but I highly doubt it's just this alone. There has to be more than this to explain the above problem in greater detail than I ever could.
Hypothetically speaking, if Shantae got in the base game I think it would be awesome if she got similar treatment like simon.
For instance, Shantae maybe having Nega Shantae as a possible echo and Risky Boots being a boss/assist trophy.
Her stage would most likely be Scuttle Town and it would be cool to see the various Barons appear as stage hazards.
I could also see the stage change to the burning version of Scuttle Town every time one of the Barons appear.
As another possible assist trophy, it would be Freinds to the End where Rotty, Bolo and Sky come out and they either switch between
each other or it randomly chooses one of them.
And of course a good amount of OST.
This would be best case scenario for our half-genie hero.
Actually, I would say that it's entirely possible that Shantae could really be under NCC, because she's currently slated to be featured in Indivisible (an Action RPG) and she's currently appeared in Mutant Mudds Special Challenge, Blaster Master Zero, and Runbow, all of which are platformer games. Now, I think that it's not a strict NCC where she can't be in anything outside of Smash and her own games, but at the same time, the possibility of an NCC is there because she's not in any Smash-Esque Fighting games and the above mentioned games would not directly compete with Smash Ultimate, whereas the Smash-Esque fighters would create some discord among Smash fans. And one thing that I think helps Shantae out a lot is that Shovel Knight was certainly not under an NCC, due to being included in these fighting games among a plethora of other games, which may have been a hint towards his non-inclusion as a fighter, but an inclusion to being an Assist Trophy.
Though, again, it could just be interpreted with WayForward being stingy with their IP, but I highly doubt it's just this alone. There has to be more than this to explain the above problem in greater detail than I ever could.
The only issue with the transformations, is what advantages they will have on the battlefield. I don't think becoming a huge, heavy, slow footed elephant is gonna benefit you in such a fast paced fighting game.
Elephant has huge damage potential, ala Bowser. Monkey has low damage, but is quick and has a smaller hitbox. Harpy has medium damage and attack speed, but can multi-jump like Kirby/Jigglypuff/Dedede.
Actually, I would say that it's entirely possible that Shantae could really be under NCC, because she's currently slated to be featured in Indivisible (an Action RPG) and she's currently appeared in Mutant Mudds Special Challenge, Blaster Master Zero, and Runbow, all of which are platformer games. Now, I think that it's not a strict NCC where she can't be in anything outside of Smash and her own games, but at the same time, the possibility of an NCC is there because she's not in any Smash-Esque Fighting games and the above mentioned games would not directly compete with Smash Ultimate, whereas the Smash-Esque fighters would create some discord among Smash fans. And one thing that I think helps Shantae out a lot is that Shovel Knight was certainly not under an NCC, due to being included in these fighting games among a plethora of other games, which may have been a hint towards his non-inclusion as a fighter, but an inclusion to being an Assist Trophy.
Though, again, it could just be interpreted with WayForward being stingy with their IP, but I highly doubt it's just this alone. There has to be more than this to explain the above problem in greater detail than I ever could.
Indivisible has been in the works for a Long time. I backed it quite a few years ago, i don't remember how many years it's been. I don't think it would count anyway. But it does happen that in the recent years there's been quite few fighters (including party-game type) that started getting indie reps, and looking at those, Shovel Knight is in a couple, and Shantae is in none. And we've mentioned that a lot of times, but we haven't went too in depth. I know that indi pogo said they were waiting to approach WF, but there's something strange about that to me, and apart from that we don't really know what's gone on behind the scenes for other ones.
Anyway, it still makes sense and it's what makes me bring up her chances as playable. It's just hard to tell what's going on exactly.
I thought of a moveset that gives the tansformations half movesets.
Human form is an all around, pirate gear and whatnot.
Elephant would only have a full set of ground moves. But any move in the air just does the stomp.
Monkey would lack all smash and tilts. To fit with its small quick fun.
And harpy has more air options(maybe air smashes) but only a basic peck on the ground.
The idea behind this movesets idea is to lessen the work load while making her transformations unique.
I thought of a moveset that gives the tansformations half movesets.
Human form is an all around, pirate gear and whatnot.
Elephant would only have a full set of ground moves. But any move in the air just does the stomp.
Monkey would lack all smash and tilts. To fit with its small quick fun.
And harpy has more air options(maybe air smashes) but only a basic peck on the ground.
The idea behind this movesets idea is to lessen the work load while making her transformations unique.
There's different ways to do it. I think that's close to what Smash bros Crusade did, though I haven't played tried the transformations so I don't know, but you can see a bit in the trailer. I copied it at 1:14 because they show some of the transformations in that. https://youtu.be/XiZh2nUkmAE?t=74
It's interesting for Nega Shantae, which they added and you can see in that video (starting at 1:52), almost all of her moves have been replaced by the attacks from transformations. So you can see how it'd look like without transforming and just as individual moves.
Personally I'd only do that for her smashes and up-b, but it's cool to see.
Well guys: if we get any news, I'm pretty sure it'll be later tonight or close to later tonight as that's when Japan seems to be active most, so... we'll see.
I still imagine we'll get news on the direct in the next few days, though.
