Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Kalomaze]

What's that with the Zelda pose ? I must have missed it !

From these two heavily reaching images
https://imgur.com/gallery/AitDa3s

 

[Dyllybirdy]

From these two heavily reaching images
https://imgur.com/gallery/AitDa3s

NOPE! NOPE! NOPE! I'm done with this. I can't handle it. There is an overabundance of double posters here! I'm leaving!
*slams door shut*

 

[DOTBHDD]

With all due respect, a lot of this isn't evidence. It's very heavy speculation.

The only solid pieces we have are:

- WayForward's silence
- Jammies mode
- Fan polls from the ballot era look good for her

Everything else is a reach.

---

Sorry, but I feel like it's important to distinguish between actual evidence and speculation. If you were to present these things to people that are neutral towards Shantae's inclusion, you might come off as reaching extra hard. Like Ridley's shadow levels of reaching.

There are logical reasons for her inclusion that need not entail these leaps of faith.

I think WayForward's silence and Daisy missing a booty bumping buddy are the best peices of evidence.

Also, everyone keep track of WayForward and Matt's liked Tweets. Just to see if anything unusual pops up.

 

[MajestyIndigo]

Uhm, Zelda's pose is not really good news for me because they would rather give that pose to Shantae if she was in the game :/

 

[Deleted member]

NOPE! NOPE! NOPE! I'm done with this. I can't handle it. There is an overabundance of double posters here! I'm leaving!
*slams door shut*

See you when we get a new date for the direct

 

[EarlTamm]

Uhm, Zelda's pose is not really good news for me because they would rather give that pose to Shantae if she was in the game :/

Well, at the very least, that pose both Zelda and Shantae do is kinda a common magic/pose trope. Lot's of characters do that sort of thing, so I do think it matters little.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Are we forgetting that Shantae is currently not in the indie fighting crossover games like Indie Pogo, while Shovel Knight is? She's in several other indie crossover games that AREN'T fighters.

Potential non-compete clause in addition to NDA?

 

[WingedSupernova]

With all due respect, a lot of this isn't evidence. It's very heavy speculation.

The only solid pieces we have are:

- WayForward's silence
- Jammies mode
- Fan polls from the ballot era look good for her

Everything else is a reach.

---

Sorry, but I feel like it's important to distinguish between actual evidence and speculation. If you were to present these things to people that are neutral towards Shantae's inclusion, you might come off as reaching extra hard. Like Ridley's shadow reaching.

There are logical reasons for her inclusion that need not entail these leaps of faith.

Thank you. I feel like we're starting to get a little too carried away with the speculation and passing it off as fact. As a guy who loves the Ace Attorney and Danganronpa series of games, it's necessary to look at the facts and doubt each piece of evidence we have in order to reach the truth.

The Jammies mode and Wayforward's creepy avoidance are the two key pieces we have.

Jammies mode might not be as much of a hint as we make it out to be, but I do strongly feel it's very peculiar they released not only during speculation season, but for FREE so everyone could see it, and also the key parts that point towards a hint are BOLDED WORDS.

Wayforward's silence speaks for itself, but it's not just their Twitter but anyone associated with Wayforward who have not said a word about Shantae and Smash together in the same sentence.

While fan polls look great and they prove she has a following, those polls do not have as much reach as the Smash Ballot would. It is also possible that some odd dark horse character that the Smash Community never really wanted was voted for by a silent minority during the public ballot period like Steve from Minecraft. In the end we can make assumptions, but we really have no idea exactly who voted on the Smash ballot and who they voted for. It's hardly conclusive evidence we can use and say "Shantae was popular on the ballot." Now, we can change our wording a bit and say "Shantae has been a consistent, popular favorite among dedicated Smash fans on fan polls" and that would be true.

 

[Deleted member]

Are we forgetting that Shantae is currently not in the indie fighting crossover games like Indie Pogo, while Shovel Knight is? She's in several other indie crossover games that AREN'T fighters.

Potential non-compete clause in addition to NDA?

That’s what I’m trying to say as well

 

[DOTBHDD]

Are we forgetting that Shantae is currently not in the indie fighting crossover games like Indie Pogo, while Shovel Knight is? She's in several other indie crossover games that AREN'T fighters.

Potential non-compete clause in addition to NDA?

THIS! Okay... can we talk about this!?

Not only is she not in those games, but she's heavily requested for those games as well!

 

[MajestyIndigo]

Well, at the very least, that pose both Zelda and Shantae do is kinda a common magic/pose trope. Lot's of characters do that sort of thing, so I do think it matters little.

That's a good point, plus I assume that they'd have pleeeentyyy of much cooler and unique victory poses to choose from/create for Shantae.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Are we forgetting that Shantae is currently not in the indie fighting crossover games like Indie Pogo, while Shovel Knight is? She's in several other indie crossover games that AREN'T fighters.

Potential non-compete clause in addition to NDA?

That is also peculiar, but it is still just speculation. Matt Bozon might not think Shantae should be in indie platform fighters and refused to lend them the rights.

 

[EarlTamm]

Really, we should just spend some time reevaluating our evidence. Now that this thread is so big, people are gonna be checking it out more and more, and we don't want to scare them off with too much tinfoil hat stuff.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Shantae not being in any of the indie fighters (especially the Smash Bros inspired ones) is something that feels too big to ignore. It's the one thing that makes me think a non-competition clause is in effect. Time will tell if that is an accurate statement, but I'm still hoping just for an assist trophy at least.

 

[zferolie]

So i am at a renaissance faire in my shantae kickstarter shirt. A guy just passed me saying best decision nintendo ever made, so i came on think i missed shantae's announcement.

Or maybe its a sign...

 

[TheRandomCities4]

That is also peculiar, but it is still just speculation. Matt Bozon might not think Shantae should be in indie platform fighters and refused to lend them the rights.

Technically everything we have at this point is speculation. Even their silence on the matter of Shantae/Smash could end up meaning nothing.

Honestly things don't become "eyebrow-raising" unless we factor all of this stuff together.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I'm sorry to say this but I think the thread may be starting to repeat itself. I've seen that most of the points being brought up recently are just ones that have been brought up previously.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So i am at a renaissance faire in my shantae kickstarter shirt. A guy just passed me saying best decision nintendo ever made, so i came on think i missed shantae's announcement.

Or maybe its a sign...

Nah. You just met a time traveler.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Are we forgetting that Shantae is currently not in the indie fighting crossover games like Indie Pogo, while Shovel Knight is? She's in several other indie crossover games that AREN'T fighters.

Potential non-compete clause in addition to NDA?

You're free to consider it evidence but for me personally, it's not strong enough.

Indie Pogo is smaller time and Shovel Knight appears in everything. Rivals of Aether is mostly animals with less than a handful of indie guests. Blade Strangers could be as simple as the developers not requesting her. If I'm given an interview that shows that the latter two attempted to get her in their games, such as the former, I'll consider it evidence.

WayForward was also stingy with Runbow until they saw that it was popular enough. And Blaster Master Zero is camaraderie with Inti Creates.

---

Logically speaking though, more profound speculation would be that Sakurai is referring to the ballot and we have reason to believe (through fan polling and WayForward's silence) that at minimum she's in the game in some capacity. If Sakurai spent more than five seconds for her consideration, he would quickly notice that she ticks all the boxes of his design philosophy. Her legal situation would be effortless and she fits the mold of a stated business strategy by Nintendo: promoting indies.

So the question that has to be answered is: Does Sakurai care more about moveset potential and fan demand or does he care more about iconic status and impact on gaming?

If the former, she's a serious contender with very few competitors. If the latter, she's got a long road ahead of herself.

While fan polls look great and they prove she has a following, those polls do not have as much reach as the Smash Ballot would. It is also possible that some odd dark horse character that the Smash Community never really wanted was voted for by a silent minority during the public ballot period like Steve from Minecraft. In the end we can make assumptions, but we really have no idea exactly who voted on the Smash ballot and who they voted for. It's hardly conclusive evidence we can use and say "Shantae was popular on the ballot." Now, we can change our wording a bit and say "Shantae has been a consistent, popular favorite among dedicated Smash fans on fan polls" and that would be true.

Look at my wording again.

I didn't say that she was popular on the ballot, what I said was more along the lines of what you said. And I do believe that consistency across several different polls and several different sites means that it's fair to say she's consistently popular at large.

Could, of course, mean nothing on the actual ballot. But it shows that she's at least viable. And I think that if you combine it with WayForward's silence, it actually does show that she was popular in the ballot itself as well, as the only way she would be in the game in any form is if she did well on the ballot.

 

[Deleted member]

So i am at a renaissance faire in my shantae kickstarter shirt. A guy just passed me saying best decision nintendo ever made, so i came on think i missed shantae's announcement.

Or maybe its a sign...

When was it and who was it that said it?

 

[DOTBHDD]

I'm sorry to say this but I think the thread may be starting to repeat itself. I've seen that most of the points being brought up recently are just ones that have been brought up previously.

Yeah. You're right. We should talk about something new.

I guess here's a new topic we can talk about! Has anyone else noticed that WayForward and Matt have been avoiding Smash talk since the ballot ended?

 

[Veodok]

I'm sorry to say this but I think the thread may be starting to repeat itself. I've seen that most of the points being brought up recently are just ones that have been brought up previously.

It does this all the time. If the direct came out when it was supposed to, we wouldn't be repeating ourselves. Any time we go about a week without any new info the thread starts repeating. There's only so much that can be thrown out there about connecting the dots when we don't have any new dots to connect.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm sorry to say this but I think the thread may be starting to repeat itself. I've seen that most of the points being brought up recently are just ones that have been brought up previously.

Well, we are looking back at stuff.

Also, I do think the lack of Shantae representation in the indie fighters still means something, as it is in big contrast to WF's hype about the Smash ballot and how they were pretty much the most vocal company when it came to supporting there character.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Yeah. You're right. We should talk about something new.

I guess here's a new topic we can talk about! Has anyone else noticed that WayForward and Matt have been avoiding Smash talk since the ballot ended?

...seriously

 

[Teeb147]

With all due respect, a lot of this isn't evidence. It's very heavy speculation.

The only solid pieces we have are:

- WayForward's silence
- Jammies mode
- Fan polls from the ballot era look good for her

Everything else is a reach.

---

Sorry, but I feel like it's important to distinguish between actual evidence and speculation. If you were to present these things to people that are neutral towards Shantae's inclusion, you might come off as reaching extra hard. Like Ridley's shadow levels of reaching.

There are logical reasons for her inclusion that need not entail these leaps of faith.

I think connorbot2 is hilarious. thought it was good stuff.
I'm not the only one who took it in humour did I?

 

[PichuMain]

I'm sorry to say this but I think the thread may be starting to repeat itself. I've seen that most of the points being brought up recently are just ones that have been brought up previously.

Pretty much. We hit the loop button. Not much else we can talk about at this point but speculation.

 

[zferolie]

Nah. You just met a time traveler.

So they went back in time to tell me she is in.

When was it and who was it that said it?

It was like 15 minutes ago and it was a guy my age or younger, so 25 to 33

 

[EarlTamm]

There is noting new to add(At least that we can see now). I thought that's why we were reevaluating out past evidence...

 

[DOTBHDD]

...seriously

I kid, I kid.

 

[Kalomaze]

You're free to consider it evidence but for me personally, it's not strong enough.

Indie Pogo is smaller time and Shovel Knight appears in everything. Rivals of Aether is mostly animals with less than a handful of indie guests. Blade Strangers could be as simple as the developers not requesting her. If I'm given an interview that shows that the latter two attempted to get her in their games, such as the former, I'll consider it evidence.

WayForward was also stingy with Runbow until they saw that it was popular enough. And Blaster Master Zero is camaraderie with Inti Creates.

---

Logically speaking though, more profound speculation would be that Sakurai is referring to the ballot and we have reason to believe (through fan polling and WayForward's silence) that at minimum she's in the game in some capacity. If Sakurai spent more than five seconds for her consideration, he would quickly notice that she ticks all the boxes of his design philosophy. Her legal situation would be effortless and she fits the mold of a stated business strategy by Nintendo: promoting indies.

So the question that has to be answered is: Does Sakurai care more about moveset potential and fan demand or does he care more about iconic status and impact on gaming?

If the former, she's a serious contender with very few competitors. If the latter, she's got a long road ahead of herself.

The biggest roadblocks for Shantae is our limited newcomers this time around and limited resources for these brand new characters.

The thing about the Shovel Knight AT is that he doesnt really have averaged out popularity.
He has lots and lots in the west, but he's relatively unheard of overseas.

Shantae is more of a balance between reigons in popularity, and if Sakurai wanted to pick the more unique character with objectively more relevance and history in japan, then that shoots up her chances way more than SK.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Unfortunately, I have to go to work right now.

If anyone responds to my points, I'll have to answer them much later.

Have fun otherwise!

 

[MajestyIndigo]

We won't be repeating ourselves forever as we will VERY soon have new exciting information about the game.
What if she is announced ? Is this thread going to die once the excitment passed ?

 

[EarlTamm]

The biggest roadblocks for Shantae is our limited newcomers this time around and limited resources for these brand new characters.

The thing about the Shovel Knight AT is that he doesnt really have averaged out popularity.
He has lots and lots in the west, but he's relatively unheard of overseas.

Shantae is more of a balance between reigons, and if sakurai wanted to pick the more unique character with objectively more relevance and history in japan, then that shoots up her chances way more than SK.

Let's not forget more history in general. She did come out on the GBC in 2002, pre dating most indie characters and is one of the few that is apart of a series rather than one single game.

 

[Kalomaze]

There is noting new to add(At least that we can see now). I thought that's why we were reevaluating out past evidence...

the one bit we have is the daisy hip bump and other than that we're as thirsty and tinfoilly as ever les go

 

[Dyllybirdy]

We won't be repeating ourselves forever as we will VERY soon have new exciting information about the game.
What if she is announced ? Is this thread going to die once the excitment passed ?

I hope not. I like it here.

 

[WingedSupernova]

So i am at a renaissance faire in my shantae kickstarter shirt. A guy just passed me saying best decision nintendo ever made, so i came on think i missed shantae's announcement.

Or maybe its a sign...

That guy's uncle works at Nintendo. You've been blessed.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

The biggest roadblocks for Shantae is our limited newcomers this time around and limited resources for these brand new characters.

The thing about the Shovel Knight AT is that he doesnt really have averaged out popularity.
He has lots and lots in the west, but he's relatively unheard of overseas.

Shantae is more of a balance between reigons, and if sakurai wanted to pick the more unique character with objectively more relevance and history in japan, then that shoots up her chances way more than SK.

This. So much this. A consistent blindspot I see in Smash speculation is that people only see things from a west-centric perspective and refuse to assess how things are seen from a Japanese perspective aside from stereotypical bullcrap like "All Japan cares about are waifus and swordsmen blah blah blah." It becomes really ridiculous when a Japan-popular character gets in and then they scream(ed) "but why no Ridley or Issac!?" or something like that when those are(were) really only popular in the west. The double standards are amazing.

 

[EarlTamm]

the one bit we have is the daisy hip bump and other than that we're as thirsty and tinfoilly as ever les go

I meant when it comes to new topics. It feels like we have brought up so much, I can't think of any new evidence. We just have to play the waiting till some new stuff comes from Smash or WF(Although for them it would be less direct).

 

[FooltheFlames]

Also, GameFAQs isnt as much of a hivemind as y'all may think it is. Plenty of people support, and a lot of the people who make these shantae troll threads get called out eventually.

gamefaqs isnt too bad... some of the time at least

Unfortunately, no. The closest you'll ever get to that are Holly Lingerbean and Twitch.

hmm ok thanx for responding
Shantae's hairstyle is still cute enuff 4 me tho!

 

[EarlTamm]

This. So much this. A consistent blindspot I see in Smash speculation is that people only see things from a west-centric perspective and refuse to assess how things are seen from a Japanese perspective aside from stereotypical bullcrap like "All Japan cares about are waifus and swordsmen blah blah blah." It becomes really ridiculous when a Japan-popular character gets in and then they scream(ed) "but why no Ridley or Issac!?" or something like that when those are(were) really only popular in the west. The double standards are amazing.

The one problem with all this is that Shantae had not yet been translated over by the time of the ballot. Sure she has that popularity now, and I have no doubt that many Japanese fans were clamoring for her to come over, but I don't know how much that would affect the ballot, as well as the time when Sakurai was making the roster.