adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
People seem to overrate rake, I can see him assuming his kill failed due to alignment without considering more likely alternatives, especially when put under pressure.
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Shadow Games Mafia Over: Dgames Doomed
- Thread starter Jdietz43
- Start date
Zalak
Smash Lord
why these posts maven? why?? why not just explain your reasons for not wanting to reveal your flavor?Oh, flavor. I thought you meant flavour.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
I made that post because I was pissed off at soup at the time and I was just venting in the thread.
I wasn't worried, and I wasn't defending myself, so I didn't really see any reason to respond. Like... the tone of your post is not exactly serious lol. That and you'd just 'fake-accused' me of being mafia.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
I'd rather just hear from FML what their reasoning was at this point... speculating on partial information isn't getting me any closer to a good read.
Zalak
Smash Lord
for future reference, my tone is generally not very serious, which is something i should work on, BUT for the most part, if i accuse someone of something, i'm serious
Zalak
Smash Lord
or if i ask any kind of question
Kantrip
Kantplay
Adum is either ****ing ******** or scum.... Kary SPECIFICALLY specified flavour and I refuse to believe adum failed to read that and still tried to call Kary out for rolefishing
Kantrip
Kantplay
If it was Rake's idea, yes. It's stupid and a terrible idea, but he would do it to see if they react poorly to the accusation and town rake wouldn't care that it looks scummy as hell. It's either a legit claim and Rake's dumb, or its a town gambit and Rake's dumb
Which part of "I'm trying to figure out whether he's town or scum gambitting" did you not understand? I'm not gonna make a case on FML if I'm not really sure he's scum in the first place because with his claim in mind I'm going to think things through again and I may or may not come to the conclusion that he's scum. That's where I wanted you to actually do something useful for once, your "offering a hand" remark is quite misplaced here.
FML is not actually town Vig.
Kantrip
Kantplay
@
#HBC | Kary
while there are reasons for scum FML to gambit like this, they're generally outweighed by the gambit putting the spotlight on FML and risking blowing up in their face when they can't back it up. The benefit of possibly outing a protective role or some other PR is overshadowed by the potential of making FML look scummy. As town they wouldn't give a **** about looking scummy if it meant pinning ghebscum which I have to assume would be their goal if it's a town gambit. Also possible is that they're telling the truth but being too dense to think of alternate reasons their kill might have been blocked. If that's the case then I feel really sorry for the, so I can only hope it's a bad town gambit for their sake.
#HBC | Kary
while there are reasons for scum FML to gambit like this, they're generally outweighed by the gambit putting the spotlight on FML and risking blowing up in their face when they can't back it up. The benefit of possibly outing a protective role or some other PR is overshadowed by the potential of making FML look scummy. As town they wouldn't give a **** about looking scummy if it meant pinning ghebscum which I have to assume would be their goal if it's a town gambit. Also possible is that they're telling the truth but being too dense to think of alternate reasons their kill might have been blocked. If that's the case then I feel really sorry for the, so I can only hope it's a bad town gambit for their sake.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Kary and adum are not on the same scum team after the way adum totally misrepresented Kary's questions to maven.
If adum is scum I would look hard at JeXs due to how adum tried to redirect the blame of his rolefishing to Kary. Very likely could have been throwing shade at Kary and covering for his mate at the same time.
If adum is scum I would look hard at JeXs due to how adum tried to redirect the blame of his rolefishing to Kary. Very likely could have been throwing shade at Kary and covering for his mate at the same time.
Kantrip
Kantplay
If FML is gambitting I hope they clear that up in their next post.
Zalak
Smash Lord
Kantrip
Kantplay
Lol. Like sure you can speculate but it's silly to think you can deduce someone's abilities by their character alone. It's one thing to ask for everyone's flavour, and I already said I agree with mavens decision not to share his, but it's laughable if you think Kary's intention was to figure out what mavens active ability might be (or if he even has one) by asking for his flavour.
And adum very CLEARLY thought Kary was asking for something else as evidenced by h giving me a little terminology lesson... lol. He even said "if Kary had asked for flavour it would be a different story." Which is exactly what Kary asked for...
And adum very CLEARLY thought Kary was asking for something else as evidenced by h giving me a little terminology lesson... lol. He even said "if Kary had asked for flavour it would be a different story." Which is exactly what Kary asked for...
Zalak
Smash Lord
oh damn, you're right, oops.
"Like sure you can speculate but it's silly to think you can deduce someone's abilities by their character alone."
I still dunno about this though. Sure, not every flavor's role will be obvious, but I'm sure there are some flavors with obvious roles.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Yeah which is why I'm okay with maven refusing to answer. He didn't have to joke around about it but whatever. I'm just saying I don't think the act of asking for flavour is scummy. JeXs looks way worse than Kary as far as rolefishing goes. I'm not saying Kary's an angel, but just that this is a nonissue
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Your continued refusal to answer actually answers the question, thank you for your cooperationWhich part of "I'm trying to figure out whether he's town or scum gambitting" did you not understand? I'm not gonna make a case on FML if I'm not really sure he's scum in the first place because with his claim in mind I'm going to think things through again and I may or may not come to the conclusion that he's scum. That's where I wanted you to actually do something useful for once, your "offering a hand" remark is quite misplaced here.
FML is not actually town Vig.
So now onto your question.
Reading over the exchange that led up to the claim there were a few things that struck me.OK, so according to FML I'm scum because he failed at vigging me. Can we get this nonsense over with yet or is there anything else that needs to be said about this?
Adum, I may or may not get back to you on the FML thing. Right now I need more time to think about whether his claim is a scum gambit or a town gambit or if he's just a complete ****** here. I kinda doubt it's the latter because I don't think Orbo would Rake do something like that. Perhaps you would be somebody who could help me figure things out here? You haven't actually done that much so far and I kinda wanna have your view on that matter ... or anything that isn't related to "Gheb is scum don't ask why just deal with it" in some way.
1. FML seems much more sure of maven/you then he was last game day, last game day he seemed mainly interested in maven as a compromise lynch.
2. Exchanging one town lynch for one scum lynch isn't a good trade from a scum prospective however if he's SURE you're scum then he doesn't see it as a trade.
3. He wasn't under major threat so it wasn't a matter of protecting himself from a lynch, he initiated it because he felt he had something to gain from it.
4. Rake does not have the best night action analysis.
5, He seemed a lot more sure of maven and your scum play toDay then yesterday.
6. The maven vote came out of literally nowhere.
7. He switched to you literally as soon as additional people suggested that they might be receptive of a gheb lynch.
The first thing that this suggests to me is that he isn't scum. If he's his best case scenario is that neither of you die and he just derails the day (like what happened when the thread was closed), but that makes no sense early unless he expected to die and wanted to trade. As a one shot that expanded his shot, his role isn't valuable enough to make that a likely occurrence. While I don't think rake and orbo are amazing, I do think they know enough to do this basic calculus.
The second thing this suggests to me is that he's telling the truth about why, the random vote out of nowhere implies a lightbulb going off in his head and the lack of reasoning suggests either a private reason or a reason that he knew town wouldn't follow but he wanted to indicate willingness to lynch.
Your claiming to protect maven likely implies to him that if you're scum maven's scum and likely vice versa. That also explains why he was entirely willing to go for whoever was most lynchable. This is especially evident when you compare the fact that he was pushing for maven as a compromise policy lynch yesterDay when toDay he's promoting him as a fullfleded scum read.
That leave me with 2 most likely options:
1. Unreasonable night-play analysis made him sure you and maven scum and hes telling the truth.
2. He's gambiting but has some other nightplay reason for believing the two of you are scum.
Less likely:
He's gambiting and just strongly believes you and maven are scum and happened to come to that conclusion at that point without any nightplay reason.
There's little evidence for a scum gambit, it's technically possible but him doing the same thing as soup under the same conditions is more plausible, with the difference in his mind being that he didn't think soup had a reason to be sure enough of Bardull to do it.
I think 1 is the most likely out of the two top reasons.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Tl;DR: It seems like too organic of an outgrowth of his prior play for scum gambit to make sense and there's very little scum advantage in doing it, especially at the point he did.
Addendium: Why does everyone suddenly think flavor claims are ok? >_<
Addendium: Why does everyone suddenly think flavor claims are ok? >_<
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Yes, your theory perfectly explains why I backed off that point and asked immediately after you challenged me on the convo and why JeXs immediately opposed my "protection". Why exactly am I not afraid to peddle bull**** when kary challenged me, but I'm completely willing to admit I was wrong when you challenged me on it?
You're fishing.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Kantrip
Kantplay
When did you admit you were wrong?
And ftr even if you did that doesn't fix the fact that you were going at Kary so hard in the first place when you clearly didn't read his posts properly. If I'm fishing then you're a big tuna that just jumped right in my boat.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I clearly admitted I misread and asked for a clarification.Though to be fair I realized I misread the exchange initially, rereading make me unsure if she was just using the terminology incorrectly or was expanding the inquiry due to maven's stubbornness.
I still don't like the former on a slot simply because it had an ability claim when it could potentially have others, but it's not as bad.
@
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
FullMetalLynch
anomandaris_rake|orboknown
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,842
Orbo here, shot was legit but rske made the claim while i wasn't really available so he's gonna have to explain it to y'allbecause indidnt get the run down for it either
Kantrip
Kantplay
No. That doesn't fix it. You didn't "misread" anything. Kary clearly said flavour. Kary clearly intended flavour. There was no "using the terminology incorrectly" and you did not need to ask Kary to clarify. You're trying to cover up for the fact that you were trying to pin something on Kary that he didn't do and pretending you think there's a chance Kary said "flavour" but meant "role name."
I'm not buying it.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Well, if Orbo's confirming the shot was legit then Rake either made a phenomenal jump in logic (even for Rake) to conclude that a failed shot = his target must be scum, or Orbo's covering for Rake and they are scum.
It's possible that FML and Gheb are scum mates and FML intended to get others to follow his logic to lynch Gheb and get him major towncred. This theory seems more plausible considering he claimed that they are a one-shot vig, meaning we will have no way in the future to verify their claim now that their shot has been used, and the fact that Gheb was already a slot that was being heavily looked at. It's possible Rake decided Gheb was likely to get lynched and wanted to try to distance and take credit for the lynch so they would look better on Gheb's scumflip.
I can't see why Rake would pull this as scum on town Gheb, especially considering FML wasn't in any danger and Gheb was already on the chopping block. If the goal was to get a mislynch on town Gheb, there was no reason to go out into the spotlight with a fake vig claim because a lynch on Gheb was probably already attainable.
No matter what the case is, we will never be able to verify FML's claim because, whether it's true or not, they are not going to be able to take any more shots since they claimed to be a one-shot vig.
So it's either they're town and Rake went actually full raketard, or FML and Gheb are scum mates. Even if it's the former, Gheb can still easily be scum (but not because he survived the shot, lol), so IMO we should still be lynching Gheb. Then if he flips scum we can look at FML.
Vote: Gheb
It's possible that FML and Gheb are scum mates and FML intended to get others to follow his logic to lynch Gheb and get him major towncred. This theory seems more plausible considering he claimed that they are a one-shot vig, meaning we will have no way in the future to verify their claim now that their shot has been used, and the fact that Gheb was already a slot that was being heavily looked at. It's possible Rake decided Gheb was likely to get lynched and wanted to try to distance and take credit for the lynch so they would look better on Gheb's scumflip.
I can't see why Rake would pull this as scum on town Gheb, especially considering FML wasn't in any danger and Gheb was already on the chopping block. If the goal was to get a mislynch on town Gheb, there was no reason to go out into the spotlight with a fake vig claim because a lynch on Gheb was probably already attainable.
No matter what the case is, we will never be able to verify FML's claim because, whether it's true or not, they are not going to be able to take any more shots since they claimed to be a one-shot vig.
So it's either they're town and Rake went actually full raketard, or FML and Gheb are scum mates. Even if it's the former, Gheb can still easily be scum (but not because he survived the shot, lol), so IMO we should still be lynching Gheb. Then if he flips scum we can look at FML.
Vote: Gheb
Kantrip
Kantplay
If Gheb flips town, I would take a hard look at adum. With their interactions I can't see him and Gheb being mates, but adum's backpedaling after ****ing up wrt Kary is making me really suspicious. I'd also look at JeXs for how said backpedaling made him look better and it's possible adum was covering for him and diverting blame of rolefishing to Kary, as I said. Besides that JeXs has done a whole lot of nothing this game so there's not much else to judge him on.
Kary is strange. I can't exactly pinpoint why but something just feels off about Kary's play. At surface level it looks like he's being super pro-town and has been in the thread a lot, but a mixture of hyper-confidence in reads and confrontational attitude along with some strange pushes makes me wary. That said, I'm having trouble fitting him on a team with FML/Gheb or JeXs/adum and just don't see Kary working with those. I don't think he's a priority right now, could wind up being indy or potentially scum if all my other reads are dead wrong.
Everyone else is either null, town, or not important enough for me to remember.
Kary is strange. I can't exactly pinpoint why but something just feels off about Kary's play. At surface level it looks like he's being super pro-town and has been in the thread a lot, but a mixture of hyper-confidence in reads and confrontational attitude along with some strange pushes makes me wary. That said, I'm having trouble fitting him on a team with FML/Gheb or JeXs/adum and just don't see Kary working with those. I don't think he's a priority right now, could wind up being indy or potentially scum if all my other reads are dead wrong.
Everyone else is either null, town, or not important enough for me to remember.
Kantrip
Kantplay
I can't see a world where FML is scum and Gheb isn't. I can see a world where Gheb is scum and FML isn't. Therefore, statistically, we should be lynching Gheb. Do you think there's a way for FML to be scum and Gheb to be town?
Kantrip
Kantplay
I'll support a FML lynch if that's the consensus but I would much rather go Gheb first. FML hasn't been as bad to me outside this horrendous claim debacle but Gheb has been consistently grimy
FullMetalLynch
anomandaris_rake|orboknown
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,842
I'm here. It's not a gambit or otherwise
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
1. Maven
2. Full Metal Lynch [3] - Sherlock, Kary, Jexs
3. Zalak
4. Gorf
5. Adumbrodeus
6. Kary
7. Detective Sherlock Hound
8. Jexs [1] - Maven
9. JaytheUnseen [1] - Zalak
10. Gheb [3] - Adumbrodeus, FML, Kantrip
11. Kantrip
Not Voting: Gorf, JaytheUnseen, Gheb
Gorf and JaytheUnseen are Prodded.
If you know of a potential replacment for Jay give me a holler.
Deadline is Midnight CST Saturday the 30th!
1. Maven
2. Full Metal Lynch [3] - Sherlock, Kary, Jexs
3. Zalak
4. Gorf
5. Adumbrodeus
6. Kary
7. Detective Sherlock Hound
8. Jexs [1] - Maven
9. JaytheUnseen [1] - Zalak
10. Gheb [3] - Adumbrodeus, FML, Kantrip
11. Kantrip
Not Voting: Gorf, JaytheUnseen, Gheb
Gorf and JaytheUnseen are Prodded.
If you know of a potential replacment for Jay give me a holler.
Deadline is Midnight CST Saturday the 30th!
FullMetalLynch
anomandaris_rake|orboknown
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,842
My flavour is Detective heart of America town one shot vigilante. I also have a secondary ability to put people's love of America against mine at night (mod confirmed and informed paranoid cop).
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Kantrip
Kantplay
Well. I'll admit I didn't realize Kary had made that post and thought he only asked twice for flavour.
I still think his intent was clear when he asked the first two times and find it hard to believe you would go at him like you did without noticing the instances where he specified flavour, but knowing he also said full role name I suppose it's possible
I still think his intent was clear when he asked the first two times and find it hard to believe you would go at him like you did without noticing the instances where he specified flavour, but knowing he also said full role name I suppose it's possible
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
