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Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.
- Thread starter Espy Rose
- Start date
thinking....
...oh....
I hate to pull this one but...
Marth is a great character and goes even with or beats all top tiers. He has a sword and frame traps and good banana control. He solidly beats Snake, Pikachu and ICs and has a chaingrab on Falco that 0-deaths. If MK was banned, Marth would take his place and you can't CP him.
Life
Smash Hero
Marth has Diddy issues (apparently. I don't think it's that bad personally).
I could see Marth being on top with MK gone, but he wouldn't be nearly so dominant.
I could see Marth being on top with MK gone, but he wouldn't be nearly so dominant.
I can't remember the last time I've seen DDD used to counter Marth. I guess because MK does it better.
Though if Wario actually beats Diddy Kong and DDD actually beats Marth, I guess I'm stumped. DDD gets ***** by alot of characters that kind of blow against high tiers.
Although on paper, ICs hard ***** everyone on every stage. Should probably just call them Marth Climbers then. Best realistic bet is Diddy though. Projectile based infinitees on like everyone?
Though if Wario actually beats Diddy Kong and DDD actually beats Marth, I guess I'm stumped. DDD gets ***** by alot of characters that kind of blow against high tiers.
Although on paper, ICs hard ***** everyone on every stage. Should probably just call them Marth Climbers then. Best realistic bet is Diddy though. Projectile based infinitees on like everyone?
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
Diddy feasibly losing to Wario and Peach, maybe Luigi, in a character vs. character basis is a lot more optimistic for the metagame than MK "maybe" losing to Diddy and Falco and ICs on Final Destination, with that certain game suddenly becoming moot the instant MK counterpicks to Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise.
True Blue
Smash Lord
Peach could float over and usually Peach mains have pretty good item control like Diddy mains so it would be like a game of Hot Potato until someone screws up lol. Though most Diddy's I have played have Wario as a secondary. And as for Marth I was told he was a counter, but that was a long time ago. But I think the match up is not super difficult as long as you pay attention to what is going on... And watch for the Dolphin Slash... lol
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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loolololololool
rope a doped the plank out of him.
With MK gone, Marth doesn't really have a bad matchup. I thought he went even with DDD, but, you know, I'm still stuck in 2009. (at the same time, this is Brawl...)
Even still, Marth doesn't have a ton of rules to keep him legal (I think he has some intense planking, though not on MK's level), his frame data in terms of attacks is nothing like MK's, his recovery is far from the best in the game (average overall, right?) and he doesn't have tornado.
True Blue
Smash Lord
But isn't the problem with Marth's recovery is that it doesn't always snap to the ledge cause I have stolen the ledge from Marth with down air and grabbed the ledge even though it obviously looked like he was getting the ledge. And if you abuse his lag he gets from the Up B to ledge then it can give some advantage. But I may be wrong. lol
Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
The new City Escape remix for Modern Sonic in Generations includes a bit of It Doesn't Matter in CE's guitar solo.
I can die happy now.
I can die happy now.
True Blue
Smash Lord
Sounds interesting. I would like to know this to play against my friend who plays ROB. lol. Does it involve footstooling? Or are ya just trolling... lol
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Is this related to my video, tesh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSFscUGFTfM
Just got uploaded an hour or two ago if anyone hasn't seen it.
This will be an ongoing series covering sonic ATs, strats, and other important parts of the sonic metagame.
True Blue
Smash Lord
That video is pretty helpful an sure all the others in the future will be too. I should probably try to implement more jab lock potential in my games, but I never worried about it cause it makes me loose focus and worry too much about it lol. But the video is very helpful, keep it up! I will surely be watching them!
Wedge ran out of tournament matches to record and now he is going to teach us stuff apparently. You know its alot flashier to jablock ROB with weak bair if you do it from low percents....
Also guys its ready, feast your eyes on this!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_RdGMGlKxE
I'm sorry, I was soooooo bored.
Also guys its ready, feast your eyes on this!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_RdGMGlKxE
I'm sorry, I was soooooo bored.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Marth vs. Sonic is 50-50. The farthest I will ever budge from this is 55:45 in Marth's favor, but I will defend our close match-up to the end of time.
Marth has grabs, counters and fair? We have FAir. Wish I could be more expansive on this, but that single move is the very reason why this match is evenly matched to begin with. Against someone like Marth with reasonable cooldown between his attacks, Sonic's FAir is an amazing punish and "get away from me" tool that differs from the spring that's hurting them at the same time. The momentum between Marth and Sonic can change like a light switch. And funny enough? Marth and Sonic are more alike then one may think. Marth predicts spin dashes, spot dodges, shield pressure, what have you? Marth predicts and spaces. It's prominent when you're not utilizing his grab release tactics on certain characters. Sound familiar?
Sonic predicts counter, grabs between hits of the Dancing Blade, punishes with FAir and SHUAir OoS, spaces with BAir, a match between a Sonic and Marth that knows what they're doing is really great to watch. To me, it's also the one match-up where, in my opinion, passive aggressive styles are rewarded on either end. Obviously Marth can shut him down nicely on a place where there's less room to run and spinshot crossup/pressure, like Brinstar. But since most stages played on give you a chance to have SOME breathing room to run and keep pressure on, it doesn't matter so long as you ban Brinstar in the first place imo.
I'm rambling here, and this turned into a big thing on me surprisingly. So I guess long story short?
• Sonic & Marth are even
• Why? Marth spaces with FAir. Sonic spaces with BAir. Marth punishes with FAir? Sonic punishes and escapes from pressure with FAir/UAir OoS instead of having to spring out of everything. And supposedly FSmash between Marth FAir's as per what KID said but I haven't implimented this just yet.
• Marth pivot grabs/counters into spacing pressure? Sonic dash grabs/reads counters into aerial pressure via UAir/BAir/Whatever you hit with
• Unless tippered/grab released from spring (IDIOT), Sonic lives for quite some time. Marth is a respectful weight. Deaths can happen swiftly either way with one slip-up.
Also, I've found this works quite nicely? After some pressure on a Marth has them near the edge if they're coming down from the air? Charge DSmash. It's worked quite a few times actually when a Marth player's instinct is to either spot dodge or FAir or DAir if they're feeling lucky. Gotten plenty of nice kills from this. Take advantage of impulse, then change it up as usual if the opponent catches on to you reading them on your kill set-up.
My insight at least. Read about it on the last page so, /shrug
Marth has grabs, counters and fair? We have FAir. Wish I could be more expansive on this, but that single move is the very reason why this match is evenly matched to begin with. Against someone like Marth with reasonable cooldown between his attacks, Sonic's FAir is an amazing punish and "get away from me" tool that differs from the spring that's hurting them at the same time. The momentum between Marth and Sonic can change like a light switch. And funny enough? Marth and Sonic are more alike then one may think. Marth predicts spin dashes, spot dodges, shield pressure, what have you? Marth predicts and spaces. It's prominent when you're not utilizing his grab release tactics on certain characters. Sound familiar?
Sonic predicts counter, grabs between hits of the Dancing Blade, punishes with FAir and SHUAir OoS, spaces with BAir, a match between a Sonic and Marth that knows what they're doing is really great to watch. To me, it's also the one match-up where, in my opinion, passive aggressive styles are rewarded on either end. Obviously Marth can shut him down nicely on a place where there's less room to run and spinshot crossup/pressure, like Brinstar. But since most stages played on give you a chance to have SOME breathing room to run and keep pressure on, it doesn't matter so long as you ban Brinstar in the first place imo.
I'm rambling here, and this turned into a big thing on me surprisingly. So I guess long story short?
• Sonic & Marth are even
• Why? Marth spaces with FAir. Sonic spaces with BAir. Marth punishes with FAir? Sonic punishes and escapes from pressure with FAir/UAir OoS instead of having to spring out of everything. And supposedly FSmash between Marth FAir's as per what KID said but I haven't implimented this just yet.
• Marth pivot grabs/counters into spacing pressure? Sonic dash grabs/reads counters into aerial pressure via UAir/BAir/Whatever you hit with
• Unless tippered/grab released from spring (IDIOT), Sonic lives for quite some time. Marth is a respectful weight. Deaths can happen swiftly either way with one slip-up.
Also, I've found this works quite nicely? After some pressure on a Marth has them near the edge if they're coming down from the air? Charge DSmash. It's worked quite a few times actually when a Marth player's instinct is to either spot dodge or FAir or DAir if they're feeling lucky. Gotten plenty of nice kills from this. Take advantage of impulse, then change it up as usual if the opponent catches on to you reading them on your kill set-up.
My insight at least. Read about it on the last page so, /shrug
~TBS~
Smash Champion
Hey...Hey...you...be quiet. Timing out is a legit strat and if it comes down to it, i WILL make use of the 8 mins and my speed. btw tl is gay.
Freakin awesome Storm. :O
Marf is a problem for me but it stems from not being able to fight any. Cant fight neo unless its tourney, and no one else around here really plays marth. Thanks Kuraudo, bam taught me some stuff too. i just need someone to pracdis against >.>
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Speed, your problem is you fall for marth's fakeouts. You are easily tricked by empty jumps and dashdances, and run into walls of fair. Fix those and you'll be good.
Life
Smash Hero
I wonder if we can jablock ROB further by keeping nair stale (ie. only jabbing him a couple times once he's at higher percents). Anyone wanna look into this?
(Also, according to Google Chrome, "jablock" is a word. Huh.)
(Also, according to Google Chrome, "jablock" is a word. Huh.)
Nice video Wedge. I made a thread concerning who we can jablock with FSJ > Nair awhile back too that could help.
[collapse=Jablock with Nair. Long post]Well, here's the initial chart I made for the characters nair and spring locks.
Remember, this chart displays the maximum percentage the character can be at while taking a fresh spring drop or sour spot nair in order to become locked on the ground. The colors are as follows:
1. Light Purple = MAY be nair locked from a sideB
This means that it is possible to nair lock these characters from a sideB footstool, but it's incredibly situational, mostly relying on the terrain of the map, and whether or not the opponent immediately reacts from the footstool. If they move the instant they hit the ground, the nair setup WILL NOT work.
2. Red = Setups into jab lock will almost never work
This means that the spring AND nair lock setups will fail. It only applies to Luigi, and only because he slides WAY too far to start off a jab lock before he goes out of range. If he stays on the level, however, you CAN run up and grab him or hit him during the forced-get up from the spring or nair lock. Luigi can be considered a Light Purple category when it comes to the nair lock.
3. Green = SideB > footstool > nair jab lock setup works
On these characters, sideB directly into a footstool, followed by a fast fall nair, will work at least 80% of the time, the only exception being Bowser, who's probably the most difficult character to set this up in, despite his size. Samus and Lucario both surprisingly share a weaker, but similar effect to why it's so god**** easy to lock ROB. They tilt back when footstooled, especially Samus, so you're actually closer to the ground when you footstool them, allowing you to nair into the jab lock. Lucario is probably the second most difficult only because he isn't fat, so the nair is hard to land. Olimar, of course, would be third since you HAVE to aim for the helmet. Mr. Game and Watch and Jigglypuff are in the same boat as Olimar in that they're so small that they fall longer to hit the ground, but not long enough to break out of the tumbling animation. Game and Watch's animation when hitting the ground is so long and creates such a good sized hitbox that landing a nair is no problem, while Jigglypuff is so wide that even with her DIing in any direction after the footstool, the nair should hit.
So the order of difficulty in initiating sideb > footstool > nair > jab lock would be the following (from easiest to hardest):
-ROB
-Samus
-Jigglypuff
-Mr. Game and Watch
-Olimar/Lucario
-Bowser
4. Blue = sideB > footstool > nair lock won't work
Simple as it's said. Squirtle and Ice Climbers suffer from the Luigi Effect, where they just slide wa~y too far for the nair lock to be reasonably possible. It may be doable vs. Squirtle, but if so, I suppose the difficulty must be insane. However, because they don't slide TOO far, spring into jab locks still work, but are slightly difficult to pull off.
***One thing I forgot to mention. All characters CAN be nair locked of course, but the ones not colored can ONLY be nair locked if they are hit with the sour spot after they hit the floor from a tumbling animation. One of the best ways I can think of to get those uncolored characters into those animations would be to hit them off a platform while they shield, then follow with the nair.
Then again, jab works much more reliably. Whatever floats your boats.***
Yup, that's that. I'm actually the most satisfied at who I found can be sideB into nair jab locked, but everything here was pretty cool to discover.
C'mon Sonic mains, let's start locking people for free damage.
=====
The following below is prior to the chart being posted:
Thought I'd make a thread about it or whatnot.
If anything, this is a placeholder for a chart I'm creating concerning characters and the percentages at which they become locked in the nair/spring jab lock setups. Not all characters fall into the nair setup, but I'll be providing the information for every cast member anyways.
Prior to the last weekend, I was fooling around a lot with Sonic's spins, lock setups, and Olimar and small characters for various reasons, and I found a lot of interesting things. Some things are/should be general knowledge for Sonic mains, but some things that I found were quite interesting:
-Spring and nair lock setups aren't constant among the cast (I felt dumb when I realized this). Each and every cast member becomes locked in the setups at various percentages. This only makes things more complicated when the Spring and Nairs stale-ness comes into play. For example, Snake pops out of the spring lock around 30% Fresh. However, if completely stale, Snake gets stuck in the spring lock beyond 50%.
Although it's a bit extreme (and nigh impossible) to think that anyone would EVER hit a Snake with a 100% stale upB (only ways are to footstool directly into an UpB, or have them miss a tech and upB, and these are only AFTER you've HIT them with 7 UpBs consecutively!), not to mention that sideB alone will knock one counter off the UpB's staleness. This is more or less just some nice advice to know, should the occasion ever, ever, EVER somehow magically show itself.
I will be making a chart within the rest of the week, hopefully, marking each individual character and at what percents they become locked with the nair (fresh), and the upB (fresh), and for the same two attacks as 100% stale. Although neither occassion will likely rise, it's mostly for data-purposes anyways.
=====
-Another something that is probably common knowledge, is the Sonic's Spin Dash (SideB) can actually footstool characters well beyond 100%, even with proper DI. During the practice runs, I was able to successfully sideB to footstool heavier characters to 200+%, and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight well into 180% fresh.
It's quite simple, and I find myself somewhat stupid for not realizing why before. The only difference between a regular sideB into footstool is that this brand relies on you hitting the other character at the apex of the initial hop from the spin dash. Meaning you have to land the sideB at the highest point. From there, you instantly buffer a jump, and it becomes a footstool just pixels from the ground.
Unfortunately, Sonic lacks a good KO or damage building setup from this aside from spring locks and nair locks on certain characters. Although it's not much to cheer about, it DOES allow for Sonic to dair instantly out of the FSJ, totaling the sideB -> dair damage at 10-13% fresh (depending on whether you sweet spot the dair). It will not kill heavies until they are beyond the setup, so never mind them, and DI will probably make this worthless.
However, if you want to try and blow some minds, or get inside some heads, it WILL kill Olimar and Meta Knight (These two were dummies for the exercises) at the 180% range. They shouldn't live that long, but in the case they do, at least there's another option open :D
I'll be looking into this buffered FSJ more in pertaining to ROB as well. At best, it may very well lead into jab locks at killing percents, which would be a blessing.
=====
-Olimar
What the heck is wrong with this character? Two- which I feel are, at least- new things I found while messing with Oli during these exercises:
1. Olimar CAN be set up into a nair jab lock.
Don't ask me how, or why, because I honestly don't know either one. It just does. I'm guessing that since he's a tiny character, that he takes longer to hit the ground than large characters from the same height, since he takes up less space. This time is then used to fast fall a nair that sets him up into the jab lock.
The nair however, only hits if you slam it into Olimar's helmet. Yup.
Never mind that this is suicidal in the Olimar match up to use (You DON'T, for the love of god, Spin into Olimar), even just pulling it off requires quite a deal of accuracy.
However, if done, the reward can be crucial. Jab locking them across a stage and then launching them away with a powerful smash attack can easily lead to a KO. That's not to say that Olimar is incredibly easy to gimp, but it makes getting him off the level and pressuring him just a bit easier to do.
That is, if you can land that sideB on him. God have mercy on your soul.
PS: It's probably easier to do the regular sideB to spring lock on him anyways...unless the nair lock works at higher percents. Also, the sideB nair lock works with the regular nair, not the buffered FSJ.
2. Olimar can be pivot-jab locked during a jab lock.
What the hell does that mean? It's simple:
1. Jab lock Olimar (lolsimple)
2. Jab lock Olimar some more
3. Pivot after a jab
4. Jab in the opposite direction
5. Proceed to jab Olimar in opposite direction
I will say this now though. This will NOT work if you're playing a competent player. It just won't. If they DI that one jab before the pivot, it's not gonna work. However, here's some things:
-This "works" on Olimar by jabbing at his feet, then pivot jabbing his head. It only works in this direction because it's easy for Sonic to move across Olimar's flimsy body. It doesn't work at his head because the helmet slows down Sonic's progress enough to force a miss. The pivot jab after jabbing Olimar's feet will hit Olimar's torso, shifting him the opposite direction of the initial jab lock (if they don't DI).
-This only works if you're right next to Olimar during the jab lock. This means that they have to either not DI at all, or DI towards you. Fun.
-If you ever do this in tournament, I will let you make love to my most attractive female relative.
-It will NEVER work, but knowing this, I tried it on other characters. This ONLY works on OLIMAR.
The last fun little fact about this pivot jab lock on Olimar is that even if you were to mess up the pivot by pivoting too early, and jab, you're still likely to hit him, but he'll continue moving the same direction as the initial jab (without DI). This also works on most characters that take up lots of space.
So if you want to be fancy or flashy, you can pivot jab lock ROB over and over and over again, he'll just keep moving in the same direction. lol.
=====
Anyways, yeah. Nothing really interesting or useful. Just little tidbits while screwing around in Brawl.[/collapse]
I never tested how far a stale nair will jab lock to. Or a stale spring. It'd definitely be worth a test.
[collapse=Jablock with Nair. Long post]Well, here's the initial chart I made for the characters nair and spring locks.
Remember, this chart displays the maximum percentage the character can be at while taking a fresh spring drop or sour spot nair in order to become locked on the ground. The colors are as follows:
1. Light Purple = MAY be nair locked from a sideB
This means that it is possible to nair lock these characters from a sideB footstool, but it's incredibly situational, mostly relying on the terrain of the map, and whether or not the opponent immediately reacts from the footstool. If they move the instant they hit the ground, the nair setup WILL NOT work.
2. Red = Setups into jab lock will almost never work
This means that the spring AND nair lock setups will fail. It only applies to Luigi, and only because he slides WAY too far to start off a jab lock before he goes out of range. If he stays on the level, however, you CAN run up and grab him or hit him during the forced-get up from the spring or nair lock. Luigi can be considered a Light Purple category when it comes to the nair lock.
3. Green = SideB > footstool > nair jab lock setup works
On these characters, sideB directly into a footstool, followed by a fast fall nair, will work at least 80% of the time, the only exception being Bowser, who's probably the most difficult character to set this up in, despite his size. Samus and Lucario both surprisingly share a weaker, but similar effect to why it's so god**** easy to lock ROB. They tilt back when footstooled, especially Samus, so you're actually closer to the ground when you footstool them, allowing you to nair into the jab lock. Lucario is probably the second most difficult only because he isn't fat, so the nair is hard to land. Olimar, of course, would be third since you HAVE to aim for the helmet. Mr. Game and Watch and Jigglypuff are in the same boat as Olimar in that they're so small that they fall longer to hit the ground, but not long enough to break out of the tumbling animation. Game and Watch's animation when hitting the ground is so long and creates such a good sized hitbox that landing a nair is no problem, while Jigglypuff is so wide that even with her DIing in any direction after the footstool, the nair should hit.
So the order of difficulty in initiating sideb > footstool > nair > jab lock would be the following (from easiest to hardest):
-ROB
-Samus
-Jigglypuff
-Mr. Game and Watch
-Olimar/Lucario
-Bowser
4. Blue = sideB > footstool > nair lock won't work
Simple as it's said. Squirtle and Ice Climbers suffer from the Luigi Effect, where they just slide wa~y too far for the nair lock to be reasonably possible. It may be doable vs. Squirtle, but if so, I suppose the difficulty must be insane. However, because they don't slide TOO far, spring into jab locks still work, but are slightly difficult to pull off.
***One thing I forgot to mention. All characters CAN be nair locked of course, but the ones not colored can ONLY be nair locked if they are hit with the sour spot after they hit the floor from a tumbling animation. One of the best ways I can think of to get those uncolored characters into those animations would be to hit them off a platform while they shield, then follow with the nair.
Then again, jab works much more reliably. Whatever floats your boats.***
Yup, that's that. I'm actually the most satisfied at who I found can be sideB into nair jab locked, but everything here was pretty cool to discover.
C'mon Sonic mains, let's start locking people for free damage.
=====
The following below is prior to the chart being posted:
Thought I'd make a thread about it or whatnot.
If anything, this is a placeholder for a chart I'm creating concerning characters and the percentages at which they become locked in the nair/spring jab lock setups. Not all characters fall into the nair setup, but I'll be providing the information for every cast member anyways.
Prior to the last weekend, I was fooling around a lot with Sonic's spins, lock setups, and Olimar and small characters for various reasons, and I found a lot of interesting things. Some things are/should be general knowledge for Sonic mains, but some things that I found were quite interesting:
-Spring and nair lock setups aren't constant among the cast (I felt dumb when I realized this). Each and every cast member becomes locked in the setups at various percentages. This only makes things more complicated when the Spring and Nairs stale-ness comes into play. For example, Snake pops out of the spring lock around 30% Fresh. However, if completely stale, Snake gets stuck in the spring lock beyond 50%.
Although it's a bit extreme (and nigh impossible) to think that anyone would EVER hit a Snake with a 100% stale upB (only ways are to footstool directly into an UpB, or have them miss a tech and upB, and these are only AFTER you've HIT them with 7 UpBs consecutively!), not to mention that sideB alone will knock one counter off the UpB's staleness. This is more or less just some nice advice to know, should the occasion ever, ever, EVER somehow magically show itself.
I will be making a chart within the rest of the week, hopefully, marking each individual character and at what percents they become locked with the nair (fresh), and the upB (fresh), and for the same two attacks as 100% stale. Although neither occassion will likely rise, it's mostly for data-purposes anyways.
=====
-Another something that is probably common knowledge, is the Sonic's Spin Dash (SideB) can actually footstool characters well beyond 100%, even with proper DI. During the practice runs, I was able to successfully sideB to footstool heavier characters to 200+%, and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight well into 180% fresh.
It's quite simple, and I find myself somewhat stupid for not realizing why before. The only difference between a regular sideB into footstool is that this brand relies on you hitting the other character at the apex of the initial hop from the spin dash. Meaning you have to land the sideB at the highest point. From there, you instantly buffer a jump, and it becomes a footstool just pixels from the ground.
Unfortunately, Sonic lacks a good KO or damage building setup from this aside from spring locks and nair locks on certain characters. Although it's not much to cheer about, it DOES allow for Sonic to dair instantly out of the FSJ, totaling the sideB -> dair damage at 10-13% fresh (depending on whether you sweet spot the dair). It will not kill heavies until they are beyond the setup, so never mind them, and DI will probably make this worthless.
However, if you want to try and blow some minds, or get inside some heads, it WILL kill Olimar and Meta Knight (These two were dummies for the exercises) at the 180% range. They shouldn't live that long, but in the case they do, at least there's another option open :D
I'll be looking into this buffered FSJ more in pertaining to ROB as well. At best, it may very well lead into jab locks at killing percents, which would be a blessing.
=====
-Olimar
What the heck is wrong with this character? Two- which I feel are, at least- new things I found while messing with Oli during these exercises:
1. Olimar CAN be set up into a nair jab lock.
Don't ask me how, or why, because I honestly don't know either one. It just does. I'm guessing that since he's a tiny character, that he takes longer to hit the ground than large characters from the same height, since he takes up less space. This time is then used to fast fall a nair that sets him up into the jab lock.
The nair however, only hits if you slam it into Olimar's helmet. Yup.
Never mind that this is suicidal in the Olimar match up to use (You DON'T, for the love of god, Spin into Olimar), even just pulling it off requires quite a deal of accuracy.
However, if done, the reward can be crucial. Jab locking them across a stage and then launching them away with a powerful smash attack can easily lead to a KO. That's not to say that Olimar is incredibly easy to gimp, but it makes getting him off the level and pressuring him just a bit easier to do.
That is, if you can land that sideB on him. God have mercy on your soul.
PS: It's probably easier to do the regular sideB to spring lock on him anyways...unless the nair lock works at higher percents. Also, the sideB nair lock works with the regular nair, not the buffered FSJ.
2. Olimar can be pivot-jab locked during a jab lock.
What the hell does that mean? It's simple:
1. Jab lock Olimar (lolsimple)
2. Jab lock Olimar some more
3. Pivot after a jab
4. Jab in the opposite direction
5. Proceed to jab Olimar in opposite direction
I will say this now though. This will NOT work if you're playing a competent player. It just won't. If they DI that one jab before the pivot, it's not gonna work. However, here's some things:
-This "works" on Olimar by jabbing at his feet, then pivot jabbing his head. It only works in this direction because it's easy for Sonic to move across Olimar's flimsy body. It doesn't work at his head because the helmet slows down Sonic's progress enough to force a miss. The pivot jab after jabbing Olimar's feet will hit Olimar's torso, shifting him the opposite direction of the initial jab lock (if they don't DI).
-This only works if you're right next to Olimar during the jab lock. This means that they have to either not DI at all, or DI towards you. Fun.
-If you ever do this in tournament, I will let you make love to my most attractive female relative.
-It will NEVER work, but knowing this, I tried it on other characters. This ONLY works on OLIMAR.
The last fun little fact about this pivot jab lock on Olimar is that even if you were to mess up the pivot by pivoting too early, and jab, you're still likely to hit him, but he'll continue moving the same direction as the initial jab (without DI). This also works on most characters that take up lots of space.
So if you want to be fancy or flashy, you can pivot jab lock ROB over and over and over again, he'll just keep moving in the same direction. lol.
=====
Anyways, yeah. Nothing really interesting or useful. Just little tidbits while screwing around in Brawl.[/collapse]
I never tested how far a stale nair will jab lock to. Or a stale spring. It'd definitely be worth a test.
Kinzer
Mammy
This might be more appropriate.
In other news, why do I wake up after only six and a half hours of sleep even though I've been desperately trying to sleep at a more regular time and with at least 8+ hours? :< Something's wrong with me.
... I'm so hungry....
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Won't be another one out until I get back from this cruise i'm going on, but I have to take a plane to FL first so i'll work on some things for the next video on the plane.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
That's exactly what I was planning on doing. I need ideas.
There's a trick I've been working with cancelling a SDR into a spinshot instantly. as it rolls off of the edge. I've used it a couple times for edgeguarding purposes. I can't get it 100% consistently but i'm working on it.
There's a trick I've been working with cancelling a SDR into a spinshot instantly. as it rolls off of the edge. I've used it a couple times for edgeguarding purposes. I can't get it 100% consistently but i'm working on it.
Kinzer
Mammy
... Ledgeshot?
Yeah GL on that, there's about a ~5 frame window to get that one to actually work.
But it does!
I've seen BAM actually use it to kill someone offstage.
I'm jealous.
I have to work on platform drop-throughs. It might just help me out somewhere too.
Yeah GL on that, there's about a ~5 frame window to get that one to actually work.
But it does!
I've seen BAM actually use it to kill someone offstage.
I'm jealous.
I have to work on platform drop-throughs. It might just help me out somewhere too.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
I have to do an episode on the astonishing d1aos trapezoid approach as well lmao.
Kinzer
Mammy
It's exactly just that.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Well tesh, if I experiment with it and it has practical applications, i'll explore it. If not, it wont have its own episode.
What I was discussing with will very briefly is the possibility that sonic may have an AT similar to dk's invincicopter. It's definitely worth exploring. If anyone wants to start working on it while im gone for the next week, be my guest. I'll begin my own research when I return.
What I was discussing with will very briefly is the possibility that sonic may have an AT similar to dk's invincicopter. It's definitely worth exploring. If anyone wants to start working on it while im gone for the next week, be my guest. I'll begin my own research when I return.
Life
Smash Hero
5 frames? That's not bad...
Someone explain the mechanics behind a platform drop to me. How much lag do you have when you drop? What happens when you do an aerial very early, in the first few frames? What about that thing the Japanese discovered (Nietono step, was it?) where you do a platform drop out of dash and use it to do actions because platform dropping has less lag than stopping a dash?
Also, is it possible to do some of those footstool-nair locks without the nair, if the footstool is high enough from the ground? (VSDJ?)
I have time now, so I'll look into that nair staling mebbe.
Wedge, PLEASE look into the invincicopter thing. Nobody else will...
Someone explain the mechanics behind a platform drop to me. How much lag do you have when you drop? What happens when you do an aerial very early, in the first few frames? What about that thing the Japanese discovered (Nietono step, was it?) where you do a platform drop out of dash and use it to do actions because platform dropping has less lag than stopping a dash?
Also, is it possible to do some of those footstool-nair locks without the nair, if the footstool is high enough from the ground? (VSDJ?)
I have time now, so I'll look into that nair staling mebbe.
Wedge, PLEASE look into the invincicopter thing. Nobody else will...
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
The only possible application for vsdj pertaining to jablocks is knocking someone off of a platform. I can't see a vsdj leading into a footstool.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
Let me rephrase that. I can't see a vsdj leading into a footstool against a player with reflexes faster of that than a snail.