September 30 Patch Predictions?

[TMNTSSB4]

why even debate over perfectly viable characters when others (cough cough, SAMUS, cough) are broken beyond belief

Sakurai will care for his children and wife before taking care of Samus. I think he has a grudge against her or something.

 

[xDizxy]

1. Falcon can take like another 1% nerf to his bair, nothing major like Falcon Punch doing .1% and KO'ing at 999% with rage.
2. I'm smoking Mario shrooms bruh.

Luma doesn't need anymore nerf, like how people keep on wanting Sonic and Diddy to be nerfed(even without the Hoo Haa people still want him nerfed). She can take some tiny buffs anyways.

Hey you're right man. Rosalina does need a buff.http://youtu.be/F3XN3m-6q7w

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Hey you're right man. Rosalina does need a buff.http://youtu.be/F3XN3m-6q7w

That's with Luma, plus noone's gonna do this on tournaments or even online.

 

[David Viran]

Sakurai will care for his children and wife before taking care of Samus. I think he has a grudge against her or something.

Maybe he just doesn't like what she's wearing.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

That's with Luma, plus noone's gonna do this on tournaments or even online.

But it would be nice if the combination of mechanics that allowed this was reworked so that doesn't happen.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Maybe he just doesn't like what she's wearing.

Or he thinks Palutena is a better character(compared to Power Suit not Zero Suit).

But it would be nice if the combination of mechanics that allowed this was reworked so that doesn't happen.

It can be taken out, but if anything, Pac-Man needs to be checked up on stuff like that before Luma does.

 

[JAZZ_]

Maybe he just doesn't like what she's wearing.

so what your saying is if the power suit had more, cough, "chest", he'd actually care?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

so what your saying is if the power suit had more, cough, "chest", he'd actually care?

That would explain why Zero Suit is top tier and Palutena's the only character with undergarments...and Peach.

 

[David Viran]

I just hope everybody knows that what I said was a joke.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

It can be taken out, but if anything, Pac-Man needs to be checked up on stuff like that before Luma does.

If I recall, falling through the stage with pac's up B was fixed in 1.1.0. What else is there for him?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just hope everybody knows that what I said was a joke.

But it could also be a reason, like how Dark Pit became a clone because of the three sacred treasures.

If I recall, falling through the stage with pac's up B was fixed in 1.1.0. What else is there for him?

I still see the up b glitch, think it was patched and then came back.

 

[xDizxy]

That's with Luma, plus noone's gonna do this on tournaments or even online.

ROSALINA NEEDS NERFED. | Super Smash Bros. Wii U: http://youtu.be/1sZd-FlZ5WM
If you still think Rosalina needs a buff, then you're obviously trolling lol.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

ROSALINA NEEDS NERFED. | Super Smash Bros. Wii U: http://youtu.be/1sZd-FlZ5WM
If you still think Rosalina needs a buff, then you're obviously trolling lol.

1. Rosalina has rage, and Peach is pretty light(not as light as Rosalina but still floaty), and she had Luma aswell(giving her more power). What did you expect?
2. Mario ko'd Sonic at 0% during Paragon, nothing is worse than that.
3. If Rosalina was op, then she'd be winning tournaments, so...
4. You're obviously trolling if somwone can't predict something. We have Shiek doing fairs and is winning more than Rosalina, Diddy had the Hoo Haa and won way more than Rosalina. Sonic and Ness have/had back throws that killed extremely early without rage on(both won some tournaments, and Sonic's been nerfed alot...yet Ness hasn't).
5. Just because someone has a "glitch" or some sort, doesn't mean they need t be nerfed(Pac-Man as discussed earlier).

 

[XenoBlur]

Really? people in this thread is like: I just want Sheik to be nerfed to D tier, And my mains to get buffed ( My Mains: Sonic, Mario, Mega Man, and Yoshi) Holy **** the smash community is worse than I though. I main Sheik and I said reasonable nerfs, so stop please. Remember guys that this a casual game made for casual players, Sheik won't get a massive nerf to be worse than Ganondorf, because for casuals or people that is new at the game Sheik isn't good Stop asking for nerf and make good arguments why your character needs to buffed not only, I want Sheik to be nerfed and Sonic to get buffed and also Mario, they aren't winning tournaments so... They should get buffed. I hate people like these. Also MarioMeteor... Mario is a character that can do well against Sheik so.. he can catch her and kill her at 0% like Ally did with a Sonic, Stop wanting for Sheik nerfs because when the patch comes out, Mario will be one who will get nerfed. I recommend you to stop throwing ****
why dont you guys talks more about buffs?
I would love Shulk and Zelda buffed btw
Please

 

[David Viran]

Really? people in this thread is like: I just want Sheik to be nerfed to D tier, And my mains to get buffed ( My Mains: Sonic, Mario, Mega Man, and Yoshi) Holy **** the smash community is worse than I though. I main Sheik and I said reasonable nerfs, so stop please. Remember guys that this a casual game made for casual players, Sheik won't get a massive nerf to be worse than Ganondorf, because for casuals or people that is new at the game Sheik isn't good Stop asking for nerf and make good arguments why your character needs to buffed not only, I want Sheik to be nerfed and Sonic to get buffed and also Mario, they aren't winning tournaments so... They should get buffed. I hate people like these
why dont you guys talks more about buffs?
Please

Also want to mention that in all the balance patches there have been way more buffs than nerfs. So idk why the conversation is focused on nerfs when buffs are more likely to happen.

 

[xDizxy]

1. Rosalina has rage, and Peach is pretty light(not as light as Rosalina but still floaty), and she had Luma aswell(giving her more power). What did you expect?
2. Mario ko'd Sonic at 0% during Paragon, nothing is worse than that.
3. If Rosalina was op, then she'd be winning tournaments, so...
4. You're obviously trolling if somwone can't predict something. We have Shiek doing fairs and is winning more than Rosalina, Diddy had the Hoo Haa and won way more than Rosalina. Sonic and Ness have/had back throws that killed extremely early without rage on(both won some tournaments, and Sonic's been nerfed alot...yet Ness hasn't).
5. Just because someone has a "glitch" or some sort, doesn't mean they need t be nerfed(Pac-Man as discussed earlier).

Did you not see that uptilt? Sent her all the way up. I can see that you main Rosalina so you being completely bias. I'll even admit, ness needs a back throw nerf but that won't happen because Sakurai would have done it a long time ago. As for the paragon thing, they were close to the ceiling. Rosalina isn't winning tournaments because the only person more op is probably shiek which more people use.

 

[Goolloom]

What will happen in this patch? The new Mario Maker stage, some fixes to Tourney mode probably, low chance of a veteran coming back and maybe a balace patch... R.I.P my replays once again.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Really? people in this thread is like: I just want Sheik to be nerfed to D tier, And my mains to get buffed ( My Mains: Sonic, Mario, Mega Man, and Yoshi) Holy **** the smash community is worse than I though. I main Sheik and I said reasonable nerfs, so stop please. Remember guys that this a casual game made for casual players, Sheik won't get a massive nerf to be worse than Ganondorf, because for casuals or people that is new at the game Sheik isn't good Stop asking for nerf and make good arguments why your character needs to buffed not only, I want Sheik to be nerfed and Sonic to get buffed and also Mario, they aren't winning tournaments so... They should get buffed. I hate people like these. Also MarioMeteor... Mario is a character that can do well against Sheik so.. he can catch her and kill her at 0% like Ally did with a Sonic, Stop wanting for Sheik nerfs because when the patch comes out, Mario will be one who will get nerfed. I recommend you to stop throwing ****
why dont you guys talks more about buffs?
I would love Shulk and Zelda buffed btw
Please

Where did you get Shiek in D Tier from?

Did you not see that uptilt? Sent her all the way up. I can see that you main Rosalina so you being completely bias. I'll even admit, ness needs a back throw nerf but that won't happen because Sakurai would have done it a long time ago. As for the paragon thing, they were close to the ceiling. Rosalina isn't winning tournaments because the only person more op is probably shiek which more people use.

Im being bias...towards someone i dont main anymore...bruh? I've been maining Pit/Dark Pit since the 3DS version came out. Just because I don't main her(sub but not main), doesn't mean I'm being bias. It's the internet, I can back up any character I want, whether it's Pit, Rosalina, or even Samus Freaking Aran.

Noone is op in this game. If Shiek was op, then she'd actually have more ko moves than fair to down b or down throw to uair. Watch Mr.R's Shiek/Ryu against Ally's Mario at Paragon and you'll know what I mean. Also, doesn't matter where they were, Sonic should've taken atleast 1% damage(like Kirby KO'ing on the ceiling at 45% or higher).

Ness's back throw definitely needs to be nerfed.

 

[XenoBlur]

Where did you get Shiek in D Tier from?

Im being bias...towards someone i dont main anymore...bruh? I've been maining Pit/Dark Pit since the 3DS version came out. Just because I don't main her(sub but not main), doesn't mean I'm being bias. It's the internet, I can back up any character I want, whether it's Pit, Rosalina, or even Samus Freaking Aran.

Noone is op in this game. If Shiek was op, then she'd actually have more ko moves than fair to down b or down throw to uair. Watch Mr.R's Shiek/Ryu against Ally's Mario at Paragon and you'll know what I mean. Also, doesn't matter where they were, Sonic should've taken atleast 1% damage(like Kirby KO'ing on the ceiling at 45% or higher).

Ness's back throw definitely needs to be nerfed.

Sorry, I didn't understand you

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sorry, I didn't understand you

Your complaint with Shiek, you said that people want her in D Tier and to have tons of unreasonable nerfs aswell as Mario to get nerfed.

Noone wants her to be that bad, just not have a cheap ko move like the Hoo Haa Reign. Looking at Diddy now, he's less "broken" and annoying than before and Shiek should be given the same treatment. ZSS on the other hand...

 

[XenoBlur]

Your complaint with Shiek, you said that people want her in D Tier and to have tons of unreasonable nerfs aswell as Mario to get nerfed.

Noone wants her to be that bad, just not have a cheap ko move like the Hoo Haa Reign. Looking at Diddy now, he's less "broken" and annoying than before and Shiek should be given the same treatment. ZSS on the other hand...

I said that as a joke man lol, Obviously no one wants Sheik to be that bad but they want it to be nerfed to be worse than their top tier main, obviously she doesn't need the same treatment. She can be nerfed in the aspects I mentioned but not more.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I said that as a joke man lol, Obviously no one wants Sheik to be that bad but they want it to be nerfed to be worse than their top tier main, obviously she doesn't need the same treatment. She can be nerfed in the aspects I mentioned but not more.

I was gonna say for a moment about the D Tier thing.

Shiek can be good all she wants without lame tactics(fair down-b). Zero Suit would most likely be nerfed way before Mario ever does. Uair to Up-B is really stupid honestly and Mario is pretty balanced(I think Pit might be even more balanced now but idk).

 

[XenoBlur]

I was gonna say for a moment about the D Tier thing.

Shiek can be good all she wants without lame tactics(fair down-b). Zero Suit would most likely be nerfed way before Mario ever does. Uair to Up-B is really stupid honestly and Mario is pretty balanced(I think Pit might be even more balanced now but idk).

If Mario is pretty balanced, then everyone that is worse than him are decent or ****, I don't want nerfs you know? I dont care about them, Yeah Pit is balanced imo

 

[kantoskies]

Just make S tier and everyone else C tier at best

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If Mario is pretty balanced, then everyone that is worse than him are decent or ****, I don't want nerfs you know? I dont care about them, Yeah Pit is balanced imo

Mario's always been a weird case when it comes to being balanced, but I can understand you not wanting nerfs.

Pit might aswell be the beginner character now that he's more balanced than Mario.

 

[xDizxy]

SKTAR 4 - Liquid Nairo (ZSS) vs DKWill (DK): http://youtu.be/42LYH7X3dMs
Bruh zss up b needs a greninja nerf

 

[Aquatics]

we need and buffs.
Make shulks fair and bair have less landing lag.
For Falco, make a proper combo throw, and make his uair have more knock back

shulk might not get a buff. Some of his frame data might be improved since its so bad

 

[David Viran]

SKTAR 4 - Liquid Nairo (ZSS) vs DKWill (DK): http://youtu.be/42LYH7X3dMs
Bruh zss up b needs a greninja nerf

The only characters boost kick is truly stupid against are fatties and that's because they literally cannot DI out of it. A better balance than just straight nerfing it would be giving it less kb but make it connect reliably on all characters and take away the stupid RCO lag.

 

[Tino]

Not really expecting much besides the Mario Maker stage and maybe some more pointless Mii costumes unless it's the ones I find really fancy. If it's gonna be another balance patch, then we can just kiss our replays goodbye...again...but then again, it's no longer a problem now thanks to the YouTube uploader feature.

 

[Zerp]

Really? people in this thread is like: I just want Sheik to be nerfed to D tier, And my mains to get buffed ( My Mains: Sonic, Mario, Mega Man, and Yoshi) Holy **** the smash community is worse than I though. I main Sheik and I said reasonable nerfs, so stop please.

If it doesn't bother you, may I ask where you'd place the cut off for what a reasonable nerf is on Sheik? Like, at what point is it a unfair nerf in your eyes? For example, would nerfing her by giving her more lag on her moves be fair or unfair to you? I'm pretty interested to hear a Sheik main's perspective on this.

Also, if we were to get a new character this patch who would you fellows want and/or expect the most?

Expecting: Wolf
Want: Bandana Dee, I'd also like Wolf but I'd much rather see Bandana Dee soon.

 

[Tino]

If it doesn't bother you, may I ask where you'd place the cut off for what a reasonable nerf is on Sheik? Like, at what point is it a unfair nerf in your eyes? For example, would nerfing her by giving her more lag on her moves be fair or unfair to you? I'm pretty interested to hear a Sheik main's perspective on this.

Also, if we were to get a new character this patch who would you fellows want and/or expect the most?

Expecting: Wolf
Want: Bandana Dee, I'd also like Wolf but I'd much rather see Bandana Dee soon.

Wolf is the only one I'm interested in seeing though I also want to see Snake get in as well.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Buffs:/

Nerfs:

Why in your opinion does Falcon need a nerf? Has no range, limited approach options and his predictable, not so great recovery makes him gimpale. This keeps him out of the top tier, while giving him a lot of speed power assets...

Does not need buffs and should not get any buffs. This character needs luma nerfs

Rosaluma is probably top tier...

But I am not sure what nerfs can be put in place that don't gimp her out of viability.

Already really floaty and dies early.

Luma dies real quickly if hit near the edge of the stage.


When Luma is down, so much of her game is missing... the term sitting duck has been used to describe it by some of the top players.

No hit box on her very difficult and frustrating to use recovery move... recovery is just one of the things on this character that players have to work a lot harder to figure out than the rest of the cast.

In non competitive matches she is difficult to use.


What nerfs do you propose that don't knock her to bottom half of the cast?

Admittedly I am biased with the work I have put into her... and not wanting to see it go down the drain and start form scratch again...

ROSALINA NEEDS NERFED. | Super Smash Bros. Wii U: http://youtu.be/1sZd-FlZ5WM
If you still think Rosalina needs a buff, then you're obviously trolling lol.

Rosalina has 150% rage... she dies pretty early thanks to her lightweight and floatyness making it quite rare that she will last that long.

In that vid, I could be wrong... but I don't think peach did anything to DI out of it... seems like a video staged to make a point.... I'd like to see the whole match to see if I am wrong.

Uair is a main kill move... nerfing that would be a huge nerf to her viability in and out of competitive play. Got to be really careful when nerfing a

 

[JAZZ_]

Really? people in this thread is like: I just want Sheik to be nerfed to D tier, And my mains to get buffed ( My Mains: Sonic, Mario, Mega Man, and Yoshi) Holy **** the smash community is worse than I though. I main Sheik and I said reasonable nerfs, so stop please. Remember guys that this a casual game made for casual players, Sheik won't get a massive nerf to be worse than Ganondorf, because for casuals or people that is new at the game Sheik isn't good Stop asking for nerf and make good arguments why your character needs to buffed not only, I want Sheik to be nerfed and Sonic to get buffed and also Mario, they aren't winning tournaments so... They should get buffed. I hate people like these. Also MarioMeteor... Mario is a character that can do well against Sheik so.. he can catch her and kill her at 0% like Ally did with a Sonic, Stop wanting for Sheik nerfs because when the patch comes out, Mario will be one who will get nerfed. I recommend you to stop throwing ****
why dont you guys talks more about buffs?
I would love Shulk and Zelda buffed btw
Please

people seem to get in heated conversations over nerfing good characters. But tend to gloss over the fact some characters exist in the cast that are broken, and not in an advantageous way.
I dont want any nerfs really, I just want my Samus' moves to work when they should, and I felt like my post in this thread reflected what you specifically are asking. Its easy to miss the honest to heart discussion when people fling out argument bait.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'd much rather the top half gets nerfs then the bottom getting buffs. Don't misunderstand, since we all know they're not going to massively shift the balance because of other reasons, but the game would be more "fair" if we removed the more absurd options.

 

[DeployableMuffin]

heres some of what i want when it comes to buffs:


-up b goes slightly higher
-down b less end lag


-sh double fair
-f smash range like melee/pm


-make a few tilts and smashes have less end lag


-not have a worthless d smash

/
-not have worthless grab range
-make thoron a reliable kill move


-not worthless


-weight


-d throw more useful for combos


-better stitch


-everything

i would rather just see a bunch of characters get buffed more than nerfed

 

[LancerStaff]

heres some of what i want when it comes to buffs:


-up b goes slightly higher
-down b less end lag


-sh double fair
-f smash range like melee/pm


-make a few tilts and smashes have less end lag


-not have a worthless d smash

/
-not have worthless grab range
-make thoron a reliable kill move


-not worthless


-weight


-d throw more useful for combos


-better stitch


-everything

i would rather just see a bunch of characters get buffed more than nerfed

SH double Fair got axed for a reason, yaknow...

 

[TDK]

- Jab 1 comes out frame 1
- Aether snaps to the ledge when facing backwards


- Peach Parasol snaps to the ledge when facing backwards
- Peach Bomber has less ending lag, so you can combo out of it when you bounce off of a shield


- Improve Grab Range
- make him/her faster
- make thoron a reliable kill move


- Increase KB on forward throw to make it harder to combo
- reduce damage on Forward air

 

[DeployableMuffin]

SH double Fair got axed for a reason, yaknow...

i know... but i still want it back, even if it wont happen

 

[XenoBlur]

If it doesn't bother you, may I ask where you'd place the cut off for what a reasonable nerf is on Sheik? Like, at what point is it a unfair nerf in your eyes? For example, would nerfing her by giving her more lag on her moves be fair or unfair to you? I'm pretty interested to hear a Sheik main's perspective on this.

Also, if we were to get a new character this patch who would you fellows want and/or expect the most?

Expecting: Wolf
Want: Bandana Dee, I'd also like Wolf but I'd much rather see Bandana Dee soon.

Well, I don't care about nerfs because If Sheik gets nerfed I would still play her a lot like I have always done, I don't want it and really don't care, but for me, the MOST and ONLY reasonable nerfs that people can demand for Sheik can be:

Vanish:
- Remove the 2nd Hitbox and windbox
-Slightly less knockback
-More lag when not autocancelled so you can punish

Needles:
-Less damage% and more time to charge it all the needles

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Why in your opinion does Falcon need a nerf? Has no range, limited approach options and his predictable, not so great recovery makes him gimpale. This keeps him out of the top tier, while giving him a lot of speed power assets...



Rosaluma is probably top tier...

But I am not sure what nerfs can be put in place that don't gimp her out of viability.

Already really floaty and dies early.

Luma dies real quickly if hit near the edge of the stage.


When Luma is down, so much of her game is missing... the term sitting duck has been used to describe it by some of the top players.

No hit box on her very difficult and frustrating to use recovery move... recovery is just one of the things on this character that players have to work a lot harder to figure out than the rest of the cast.

In non competitive matches she is difficult to use.


What nerfs do you propose that don't knock her to bottom half of the cast?

Admittedly I am biased with the work I have put into her... and not wanting to see it go down the drain and start form scratch again...



Rosalina has 150% rage... she dies pretty early thanks to her lightweight and floatyness making it quite rare that she will last that long.

In that vid, I could be wrong... but I don't think peach did anything to DI out of it... seems like a video staged to make a point.... I'd like to see the whole match to see if I am wrong.

Uair is a main kill move... nerfing that would be a huge nerf to her viability in and out of competitive play. Got to be really careful when nerfing a

Personally, I find Rosalina has a weird tendency to fall out of combos due to her tall but slim (and floating, since her feet have no collisions) hurtbox and the way she bends like a ragdoll in her flinch animations. My worst experiences with this have been with Pit, where Rosalina's strange flinch animations and floaty physics can cause her to rise out of Up Smash or Up Tilt, slip out of Rapid Jab before even a single loop completes, rise over the second hit of Forward Smash, slip out of a spaced Forward Aerial after the first hit, and even rise or slip out of NAir after the first few hits. Also, her floating hurtbox seems to occasionally cause Down Tilt and Dash Attack to whiff.

Thanks to her slipperiness and to the existence of Luma, her survivability isn't as bad as it should be. It's horribly frustrating to finally take care of Luma and try to go ham on Rosalina, only for her to slip out of multi-hit damage-racking or kill moves and punish me on hit, or even for her hurtbox to simply not be where I expect her to be (I've whiffed more than a few follow-ups from the way she doubles over when launched at horizontal or diagonal angles, since it pulls her torso hurtbox out of reach and she's so tall that her head and legs don't fill in the resulting gap).

So to me, a big and highly relevant nerf to Rosalina would be for her flinch animations to not move her hurtbox away from the attacker as much.

- Jab 1 comes out frame 1
- Aether snaps to the ledge when facing backwards


- Peach Parasol snaps to the ledge when facing backwards
- Peach Bomber has less ending lag, so you can combo out of it when you bounce off of a shield


- Improve Grab Range
- make him/her faster
- make thoron a reliable kill move


- Increase KB on forward throw to make it harder to combo
- reduce damage on Forward air

Interesting thing you might not have noticed about Robin is that Arcthunder seems to actually have more KO power than even extended Thoron.

Note that most jabs don't come out frame 1, though Ike's is a little late (frame 4) and could stand to come out 1 or 2 frames earlier. Also, Mewtwo needs a heck of a lot more buffs than just a weight increase. Less endlag and more knockback on UTilt? Sweetspot at the tip of FTilt instead of the base? More knockback on sourspot FTilt? Less startup on DSmash? Less startup on BAir? All of those would help.


Also, a few global engine changes I want to see. Some of them have already been said in my previous post:

— ZAirs affect and are affected by Stale Move Negation. This one mostly serves as an indirect buff to Samus, who gains a slight overall damage buff by virtue of her ZAirs helping to refresh her Charge Shot and Missiles.

— Rage multiplier is taken into account after the knockback growth portion of the knockback formula, meaning base knockback is unaffected. The actual amount of the multiplier is increased to make up for this.

— Input buffer allows buffering of multiple inputs as it did in Brawl.

— Input buffer does not count frames during hitlag. This allows for easier inputs as players are able to reliably input actions while an attack is connecting, making combos and strings more reliable for newbie players and making fast-falling an aerial attack that connected a heck of a lot easier. It also makes it easier for Meta Knight to get a full Mach Tornado.