September 30 Patch Predictions?

[MarioMeteor]

I stopped reading at Dedede.

Dedede's not ****. Not great, not really that good, but I wouldn't call him ****.

Try telling a Shiek that rage helps the character. Why would a fragile speedster who is basically death of a thousand cuts given physical form gain anything from rage? You haven't explained how the heck that works... It's actually why her matchups against characters like Lucario and DK are so volatile. Take this idea to the viability rankings thread and see what happens if you're so confident.

Bruh, are you blind? I literally just told you why. You need to actually read. And for ****'s sake, it's Sheik, not Shiek.

 

[TurboLink]

Dedede's not ****. Not great, not really that good, but I wouldn't call him ****.

Bruh, are you blind? I literally just told you why. You need to actually read. And for ****'s sake, it's Sheik, not Shiek.

So Ryu, Link, Megaman, and Wario are ****? And King Dedede is a Super Heavyweight.

Going off of this list: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight

This. I foresee a MAJOR nerf to ZSS because of Umebura(Remember when they nerfed falcon for no good reason just because Zero dominated with him at a Japanese tourney? Same logic here). It's gonna be so bad it's probably gonna make Nairo or any ZSS main cry. I also foresee a slight Ryu nerf as well, just because I don't believe the balance team and/or Sakurai really knows how to balance this game properly; although the last balance patch wasn't so bad.

I think we might get something else besides Mario Maker, like another stage or Mii costumes. I think we might get a veteran reveal as well, but not likely.

What about Umebura? Do you have a video?

 

[MarioMeteor]

So Ryu, Link, Megaman, and Wario are ****? And King Dedede is a Super Heavyweight.

Link is, all the others, no.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dedede's not ****. Not great, not really that good, but I wouldn't call him ****.

Bruh, are you blind? I literally just told you why. You need to actually read. And for ****'s sake, it's Sheik, not Shiek.

No, he's bottom five. Lost every little thing that made him good in Brawl, really.

So a character with no durability and isn't great at getting KOs benefits from a mechanic that give you more power the more damage you take? Nope. Take your logic to the viability rankings thread and see how your idea stacks up, and then we'll talk.

 

[MarioMeteor]

No, he's bottom five. Lost every little thing that made him good in Brawl, really.

So a character with no durability and isn't great at getting KOs benefits from a mechanic that give you more power the more damage you take? Nope. Take your logic to the viability rankings thread and see how your idea stacks up, and then we'll talk.

A fast, weak character benefits from a mechanic that turns said weak character into a strong character. Is it that hard to grasp?

 

[MrGame&Rock]

No, he's bottom five. Lost every little thing that made him good in Brawl, really.

So a character with no durability and isn't great at getting KOs benefits from a mechanic that give you more power the more damage you take? Nope. Take your logic to the viability rankings thread and see how your idea stacks up, and then we'll talk.

A fast, weak character benefits from a mechanic that turns said weak character into a strong character. Is it that hard to grasp?

can we take this to a different thread? This isn't a discussion on Rage, and I highly doubt the mechanic is going anywhere in this next patch. This back-and-forth is just two people repeating the same points and it's getting grating. And this is coming from someone who debates in the Customs and Stage Legality threads

 

[LancerStaff]

A fast, weak character benefits from a mechanic that turns said weak character into a strong character. Is it that hard to grasp?

Rage doesn't even start until 50%, and Sheik dies at like 70%. Rage isn't on/off, it scales as % climbs all the way to 200%. She's probably not even getting a 1.01 modifier, and the max is 1.15. She doesn't benefit from rage because most characters are living to at least 100% against her.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Rage doesn't even start until 50%, and Sheik dies at like 70%. Rage isn't on/off, it scales as % climbs all the way to 200%. She's probably not even getting a 1.01 modifier, and the max is 1.15. She doesn't benefit from rage because most characters are living to at least 100% against her.

Exaggerations. Sheik does not die at 70%. Even if she did, that's provided you can catch her, and unless you're one of the few characters who can, that's probably not going to happen.

can we take this to a different thread? This isn't a discussion on Rage, and I highly doubt the mechanic is going anywhere in this next patch. This back-and-forth is just two people repeating the same points and it's getting grating. And this is coming from someone who debates in the Customs and Stage Legality threads

Now that you say that, "Is Rage Good?" isn't too bad an idea for a thread.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Now that you say that, "Is Rage Good?" isn't too bad an idea for a thread.

Then make it, and we'll have this discussion there. Please.

 

[xDizxy]

Remember seeing comments saying was op. He is really not. He has one huge major weaknesses. He's really light so he can't use rage to his advantage. Also for a small light character, he gets comboed.
Stop nerfing these characters Sakurai . Nerf the ones who truly need it.

 

[fauxchienne]

i think robin needs a jab buff, most characters can jump out of a fire jab or cancel it with their frame 2 aerials. an arcfire end lag buff would also be amazing, as well as if it trapped opponents better since currently anyone can smash DI out, and jigglypuff is pretty much immune.
i cant wait for the marth buffs, i really hope they fix his down air endlag and give him a combo throw that works past 15%/doesn't require a hard read

 

[xDizxy]

i think robin needs a jab buff, most characters can jump out of a fire jab or cancel it with their frame 2 aerials. an arcfire end lag buff would also be amazing, as well as if it trapped opponents better since currently anyone can smash DI out, and jigglypuff is pretty much immune.
i cant wait for the marth buffs, i really hope they fix his down air endlag and give him a combo throw that works past 15%/doesn't require a hard read

Bro you kidding me right? Robin has one of the strongest jab like 20%. Marth received a ****load of buffs.

 

[Gearth34]

IKE. BUFF. that is all.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Nerf Greninja's down taunt so that the meme can live on.

 

[fauxchienne]

Bro you kidding me right? Robin has one of the strongest jab like 20%. Marth received a ****load of buffs.

wind jab is good, im talking about the fire jab. unless you time the 2nd hit just right, it can be shielded by fast fallers, air dodged by some lightweights, and clashed with neutral airs

 

[xDizxy]

IKE. BUFF. that is all.

No.

 

[33percentgod]

If nothing else, at the very least remove Rage. The game would be so much better if that atrocity of a mechanic were removed.

What don't you like about it, specifically?

I like rage mode, it allows the game to always have a "surprise" element to it. It introduces the "wild card" variable where you realize you can't just steam roll the entire match because you had an early lead.

Watching one person get bodied from start to finish with no chance to even come back is boring. And it does nothing to help lower tier characters. If they are completely non-viable, just remove them from the game and be done with it rather than giving the illusion of a choice.

I like rage mode. This is coming from a Bowser main as well. It gives us a fighting chance when the character we fight gets us to 75% damage because we got grabbed ONE time.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What don't you like about it, specifically?

I like rage mode, it allows the game to always have a "surprise" element to it. It introduces the "wild card" variable where you realize you can't just steam roll the entire match because you had an early lead.

Watching one person get bodied from start to finish with no chance to even come back is boring. And it does nothing to help lower tier characters. If they are completely non-viable, just remove them from the game and be done with it rather than giving the illusion of a choice.

I like rage mode. This is coming from a Bowser main as well. It gives us a fighting chance when the character we fight gets us to 75% damage because we got grabbed ONE time.

Naturally, you would like it, since Bowser arguably gets the most from it. Likewise, being a Jigglypuff main, I despise it. What I don't like is how early people die from it. It just gets plain ******** at times. Jigglypuff wants to keep her stock as clean as possible, since a few mistakes is all it takes to dig yourself into a hole that you may not climb out of, but with Rage, it's not uncommon to see Jigglypuff die around 50%. I also second Falco, who gets all of his mileage off of his amazing combos, which become nonexistent at high percents, because you're sending people too far to follow up with anything. To make matters worse, both Jigglypuff and Falco have a severe lack of reliable KO moves, so Falco's struggling to get a down tilt, or an up throw, or anything that could possibly set up for a combo before he dies from a stray tilt or something, and poor Jigglypuff's still trying to get the first stock off the opponent, but she can't because she died at 60 something percent and has no Rage, and as a result has all of her knockback crippled.
Do you get where I'm coming from?

 

[NextPain]

Does anyone else think this will be the last balance update

 

[CrazyPerson]

Does anyone else think this will be the last balance update

Doubtful... Smash is a primere franchise and it will be supported for a lot longer imo.

 

[Dagon97]

Nerf 's needle startup/range it does low damage so I am not sure why people are complaining.
Buff , , , , , ,

 

[xDizxy]

Nerf 's needle startup/range it does low damage so I am not sure why people are complaining.
Buff , , , , , ,

I agree with all except WFT. She received alot of good buffs last patch.

 

[NextPain]

I agree with all except WFT. She received alot of good buffs last patch.

Also Falco has gotten some buffs to they just need more players to explore him played him for a short time great potential

 

[Zerp]

What I want:
and/or any other low tier buffs
frame-data nerfs


What I'm actually expecting:
We get a damage and knockback nerf to that won't actually address her problems.
Along with others, all get moderate buffs, while get these crappy buffs that don't really help them much but hey, at least it shows the devs care! Meanwhile,will continue to sit in her weird corner of shame AKA continue to be ignored forever and fall closer to the bottom tier.

 

[xDizxy]

Also Falco has gotten some buffs to they just need more players to explore him played him for a short time great potential

I agree while falco is not what he was in brawl or melee, he's still a good character. Tired of people saying he's bottom. Imo he's mid.

 

[NextPain]

I agree while falco is not what he was in brawl or melee, he's still a good character. Tired of people saying he's bottom. Imo he's mid.

agreed

 

[33percentgod]

Naturally, you would like it, since Bowser arguably gets the most from it. Likewise, being a Jigglypuff main, I despise it. What I don't like is how early people die from it. It just gets plain ******** at times. Jigglypuff wants to keep her stock as clean as possible, since a few mistakes is all it takes to dig yourself into a hole that you may not climb out of, but with Rage, it's not uncommon to see Jigglypuff die around 50%. I also second Falco, who gets all of his mileage off of his amazing combos, which become nonexistent at high percents, because you're sending people too far to follow up with anything. To make matters worse, both Jigglypuff and Falco have a severe lack of reliable KO moves, so Falco's struggling to get a down tilt, or an up throw, or anything that could possibly set up for a combo before he dies from a stray tilt or something, and poor Jigglypuff's still trying to get the first stock off the opponent, but she can't because she died at 60 something percent and has no Rage, and as a result has all of her knockback crippled.
Do you get where I'm coming from?

I do understand where you're coming from.

The reason I like the rage mode isn't because I'm a Bowser main, but it's the same reason I like random crits in TF2, it adds a wildcard aspect into the game that isn't able to be micromanaged and controlled by a human. It adds that "anything can happen" atmosphere to it, which makes it fun and exciting to me.

What it sounds like is that Jigglypuff and Falco have serious flaws that need to be addressed, not to remove rage mode. I completely understand where you're coming from, but you have to also understand the solution of removing rage is like tying your opponents arm behind their back to even the playing field. You also have to understand as much as Jigglypuff has an uphill battle, so do the heavy weights (you yourself even said you don't like them.) Watch this video and tell me Bowser needs another viable asset taken away. Just like you get killed as Jiggly super early and feel like you're trying to dig yourself out, Bowser gets comboed and juggled to like 70% from one grab. We all have issues.

You gotta make the bad aspects of a character better through patches and constant tweaking, not take away an opponents strengths. This isn't a "you think you're main has problems!? how about _____!" or anything like that and I DO understand why you have an issue with rage mode. Nintendo needs to tweak and balance those characters (including Bowser.) Make Falco and Jigglypuff have a few reliable KO moves.

 

[1FC0]

WE NEED A GYROMITE STAGE

 

[MarioMeteor]

I do understand where you're coming from.

The reason I like the rage mode isn't because I'm a Bowser main, but it's the same reason I like random crits in TF2, it adds a wildcard aspect into the game that isn't able to be micromanaged and controlled by a human. It adds that "anything can happen" atmosphere to it, which makes it fun and exciting to me.

What it sounds like is that Jigglypuff and Falco have serious flaws that need to be addressed, not to remove rage mode. I completely understand where you're coming from, but you have to also understand the solution of removing rage is like tying your opponents arm behind their back to even the playing field. You also have to understand as much as Jigglypuff has an uphill battle, so do the heavy weights (you yourself even said you don't like them.) Watch this video and tell me Bowser needs another viable asset taken away. Just like you get killed as Jiggly super early and feel like you're trying to dig yourself out, Bowser gets comboed and juggled to like 70% from one grab. We all have issues.

You gotta make the bad aspects of a character better through patches and constant tweaking, not take away an opponents strengths. This isn't a "you think you're main has problems!? how about _____!" or anything like that and I DO understand why you have an issue with rage mode. Nintendo needs to tweak and balance those characters (including Bowser.) Make Falco and Jigglypuff have a few reliable KO moves.

Oh, there's no denying that Jigglypuff and Falco need tweaking, anybody could tell you that. I'm just using these two as an example because I play them. If I cared enough, I'm sure I could up with a dozen other examples.

The difference between Jigglypuff and Bowser is that Jigglypuff can spend half the match trying to get the stock off the opponent, while simultaneously trying not to give up her stock absurdly early, Bowser can not only take stocks with the greatest of ease, but he can live to ridiculous percents as well. It balances out. I'm not suggesting that we take Rage and leave it at that, I'm suggesting that we take it and buff the base knockback and knockback scaling of all attacks. So things that wouldn't kill at 0% with Rage, would without it. Jigglypuff has less of a struggle getting a stock off, Falco can combo into a KO move, and Bowser can still reliably KO while also living longer due to not dying from things that he shouldn't. Everybody wins.

 

[33percentgod]

Oh, there's no denying that Jigglypuff and Falco need tweaking, anybody could tell you that. I'm just using these two as an example because I play them. If I cared enough, I'm sure I could up with a dozen other examples.

The difference between Jigglypuff and Bowser is that Jigglypuff can spend half the match trying to get the stock off the opponent, while simultaneously trying not to give up her stock absurdly early, Bowser can not only take stocks with the greatest of ease, but he can live to ridiculous percents as well. It balances out. I'm not suggesting that we take Rage and leave it at that, I'm suggesting that we take it and buff the base knockback and knockback scaling of all attacks. So things that wouldn't kill at 0% with Rage, would without it. Jigglypuff has less of a struggle getting a stock off, Falco can combo into a KO move, and Bowser can still reliably KO while also living longer due to not dying from things that he shouldn't. Everybody wins.

Sounds like a plan to me! MarioMeteor 2016!

 

[JAZZ_]

Fix please. That's all I pray for

 

[König Nickerchen]

What I want:
and/or any other low tier buffs
frame-data nerfs


What I'm actually expecting:
We get a damage and knockback nerf to that won't actually address her problems.
Along with others, all get moderate buffs, while get these crappy buffs that don't really help them much but hey, at least it shows the devs care! Meanwhile,will continue to sit in her weird corner of shame AKA continue to be ignored forever and fall closer to the bottom tier.

Cool! That´s Dark Matter!^^

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Buffs:/

Nerfs:

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Buffs:/

Nerfs:

I seriously hope you accidentally switched and ...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I seriously hope you accidentally switched and ...

No..I didnt...he can handle another tiny nerf anyways. Sonic and Greninja had them.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Have Zelda and Sheik switch Fairs, that should do it

 

[me quazzy]

Does not need buffs and should not get any buffs. This character needs luma nerfs

 

[xDizxy]

Buffs:/

Nerfs:

Are you serious lol? Captain falcon needs nerfs while Rosalina needs buffs? What you smoking bruh?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Are you serious lol? Captain falcon needs nerfs while Rosalina needs buffs? What you smoking bruh?

1. Falcon can take like another 1% nerf to his bair, nothing major like Falcon Punch doing .1% and KO'ing at 999% with rage.
2. I'm smoking Mario shrooms bruh.

Does not need buffs and should not get any buffs. This character needs luma nerfs

Luma doesn't need anymore nerf, like how people keep on wanting Sonic and Diddy to be nerfed(even without the Hoo Haa people still want him nerfed). She can take some tiny buffs anyways.

 

[JAZZ_]

why even debate over perfectly viable characters when others (cough cough, SAMUS, cough) are broken beyond belief