September 30 Patch Predictions?

[BlazGreen]

These poor guys need buffs more than anyone.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Well, I don't care about nerfs because If Sheik gets nerfed I would still play her a lot like I have always done, I don't want it and really don't care, but for me, the MOST and ONLY reasonable nerfs that people can demand for Sheik can be:

Vanish:
- Remove the 2nd Hitbox and windbox
-Slightly less knockback
-More lag when not autocancelled so you can punish

Needles:
-Less damage% and more time to charge it all the needles

That's a little too little. I'd also give her a couple frames more endlag and a little more landing lag on her aerials, specifically fair. And then stop.

 

[XenoBlur]

That's a little too little. I'd also give her a couple frames more endlag and a little more landing lag on her aerials, specifically fair. And then stop.

Noup, Thats it, Otherwise Sheik wouldn't be the fast combo ninja that Sakurai wants. Improve with your A-mash botton Yoshi

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Noup, Thats it, Then Sheik wouldn't be the fast combo ninja that Sakurai wants. Improve with your A-mash botton Yoshi

sheik would still be able to combo, just like Mario or Pikachu can. She just wouldn't be godly at it anymore, and the landing lag would make missed moves easier to punish.

 

[JAZZ_]

how about we leave the top tiers alone for a bit and turn attention to those who ACTUALLY NEED the attention

 

[Axel311]

As for my mains, -

Praying for a buff for Dedede. He absolutely needs it. Definitely a bottom 5-10 character on the tier list. I'm playing him less and less as the meta develops. He needs frame data buffs on most of his moveset or he won't ever be viable. Also fix his hiboxes on bair and fair please. They've been broken from day 1, they don't match the animation at all. And I can pray for a gordo reflect threshold buff but I doubt it's going to happen.

As for Wario, he needs much less help than Dedede, top 20 character already. But one thing he needs is less endlag on upsmash. That change would put him up there with the top tiers. He struggles to kill outside of waft which is a big issue for the character. If the mario bros, fox, pikachu can have such safe low lag upsmashes I don't see any reason why wario can't as well. It certainly won't make him any higher than perhaps ~#5-#10 on the tier list.

I don't think this will happen, but I'd rather see the ridiculously safe up smashes of the top tiers be nerfed instead of buffing warios. I'm talking . Either way, I don't see why Wario's upsmash should be so inferior to the top tiers. I know he has fart, but that's not enough to justify it. The top tiers have better/more reliable tools than fart.

Really wanting to see get a needle nerf. More endlag both on startup and ending. She's absolutely suffocating the meta at the moment. She needs it. I absolutely think nerfing fair is the wrong way to go with a nerf. She's a fast ninja combo character, her fair should be awesome. Her ability to camp so well is the big issue here.

needs a change. He's so braindead. I don't think he needs a huge nerf, but he needs some kind of change so you have to actually think when playing the character. He's too easy to play. Same goes for .

I think a small bthrow nerf is in order.

I think she should fall slower or have more lag after Up B. It's such a deadly move, there needs to be more of a punishment when she misses it. A move that strong shouldn't be so safe. It's stupid how this move is so safe yet a move like 's rest is certain death if you miss.

make luma respawn slower by about 3 seconds. It should be more rewarding to kill her.

As for some low tiers -

Add weight
overall damage and knockback buffs.
fix her hitboxes
reduced moveset lag
Increase run speed to help with his issues getting camped
Overall damage increase on moveset.
Absolutely change her rest to always send opponents through the back of stage on a kill. You should NEVER ever ever be punished for hitting a rest that kills. That is an absolute no brainer, how this has not been patched yet I don't understand. Also give her increased grab range and bair range.

 

[SneakyLink]

What needs to happen:

Ground theme 2 (from Brawl) needs to return.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

For Lucina, her attacks should be coded to be as safe on shield as Marth's weaker nontipped hitboxes. That might help her out.

OH, forgot one major thing. Please, oh PLEASE, give Pit and Dank Pit some actually significant differences besides two specials and a f-tilt.

 

[LancerStaff]

OH, forgot one major thing. Please, oh PLEASE, give Pit and Dank Pit some actually significant differences besides two specials and a f-tilt.

Please no. Doc and Lucina are trash just because they wanted them to be different...

 

[IndigoSSB]

They'll fix Samus.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but it'd be nice if we get some early news about the Ballot.

 

[Axel311]

I have a horrible, horrible feeling they are going to nerf DK's ding dong. He absolutely needs it to be viable, but it screams of jank. I honestly wouldn't mind if they nerfed it as long as they gave him equivalent buffs in other areas. But I have a really bad feeling DK mains are in for a huge disappointment in a couple days. I have zero evidence to back up my claim, just a gut feeling. It's SOOO guaranteed, it just feels cheap to use even though DK is not OP in the slightest.

 

[Powerman293]

Sheik is absolutely getting a nerf. Sheik mains are crazy if they don't think they're getting nerfed. I personally think it's going to be needles that get nerfed, maybe more startup/endlag, shorter range (seriously, range of needles is stupid, at least on the ground). Maybe a vanish nerf? Vunerablity frames or something?

As someone who recently picked up Sheik to learn how to play her to spite the meta and growing to like the character, she absoutley needs something done to her.

 

[BlazGreen]

The number one priority of this potential balance patch should be fixing hitboxes. This is especially important for Samus and Mewtwo as it's their biggest downfall and just shows how poorly tested these characters were.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Title says patch predictions

actual thread content is patch wishlist

i'm confused.

 

[Dinoman96]

Wishlist:

: anything
: Change her default set to her superior customs
: Make him more heavier
: Make his down air like Melee/Brawl again

 

[phantom man]

These poor guys need buffs more than anyone.

Jigglypuff?! Well....maybe slightly less landing/end lag on all her aerials, but that's about it. I think she is a perfect character the way she is.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Hurr durr I'm not good so buff my mains
they totally won't be broken tho
nerf all the top tiers thur brainded and broken
People are calling for nerfs and buffs when they don't understand how it will affect the character
"give muh sheik endlag" When she has trouble killing already
It's called B A L A N C E
Just because your char is dirt doesn't mean another is op
"gib Luigi a nerf hez brainded"
Yup, Luigi has tons of tournament results, easy to pick up and win
All these characters are 'broken' at the perspective of a low level player
Not every character needs to be god tier or have every tool possible
And that doesn't describe Sheik, she isn't Brawl MK
Most of the top tiers are balanced and in retrospect it makes all the other chars look like dirt because they're not as balanced
tl;dr stop hopping on bandwagons and calling for certain top tier nerfs
We need meaningful buffs for low tiers not
"gib robin more movement speed"
Certain things make characters balanced, and someone is always going to be low tier
Almost everyone is viable and this game is the most balanced Smash bros yet

 

[Constadin]

Indeed it is mostly "balanced". Fixxing chars like , though is a must since they are bad not because of their moveset but on the fact that animations don't much the hitboxes and they have blind spot on their attacks (Fsmash of mewtwo per say) aka design flaws. Also needs framedata nerfs, I don't care about ruining her playstyle... No character is supposed to have a playstyle that leaves you with a few if not at all options. Playing against sheik atm is not fun and in some cases frustrating (not being able to land and being in hit lag constantly except when you are near the blast zones flying or trying to return "on stage" only to send back flying again).

But well, I don't except mains to take this objectively and I do not also except all of you to stay with her as your main when the nerf bat will strike.

These issues need to be adressed with this patch, if done I personally will be ultra happy with this game.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Nah people won't stop
Next will be Rosa, then Sonic then Pika etc etc

 

[LancerStaff]

Indeed it is mostly "balanced". Fixxing chars like , though is a must since they are bad not because of their moveset but on the fact that animations don't much the hitboxes and they have blind spot on their attacks (Fsmash of mewtwo per say) aka design flaws. Also needs framedata nerfs, I don't care about ruining her playstyle... No character is supposed to have a playstyle that leaves you with a few if not at all options. Playing against sheik atm is not fun and in some cases frustrating (not being able to land and being in hit lag constantly except when you are near the blast zones flying or trying to return "on stage" only to send back flying again).

But well, I don't except mains to take this objectively and I do not also except all of you to stay with her as your main when the nerf bat will strike.

These issues need to be adressed with this patch, if done I personally will be ultra happy with this game.

Fixing the hitboxes wouldn't do much if anything for either character. Samus's dash attack in particular would be ridiculous if it matched the animation... Like, frame three, maybe two? Pit's dash attack also has a gigantic blind spot, albit it makes more sense, but we don't say it's a bad move because of it. We say lrn 2 space and talk about how it's a great move. Similarly, Pit's Usmash has hitbox issues (front mostly goes over the opponent's head just like Samus's, back portion of the move doesn't remotely match, gigantic blind spot within Pit) but I don't think anybody would call it a bad move.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Please no. Doc and Lucina are trash just because they wanted them to be different...

Lemme rephrase that... "make them different, but don't be a moron about it"

 

[John12346]

I've mentioned this in a few other places, but there are ways to *properly* pull in the reels on Sheik without actually touching her framedata.

For example, one could remove the absurdly sized disjoints from her Fair/Nair/Bair, meaning she has to space her moves properly or face a complete whiff/shieldgrab.

One could reduce the speed at which Needle Storm travels, thus making into a move that DOESN'T completely wreck the neutral against a large majority of the cast.

And one could just increase the knockback growth (and decrease the base knockback) of Dthrow, making it combo into Uair at all of the percents it's supposed to, but not at percents where it will kill.

Simple changes that would allow Sheik to continue to run around like a blitzy little vixen, but at least now it's fair enough. Also if Sheik were to get all of those changes (heavily doubt it), I would also say power up her down and forward smashes so they kill earlier.

 

[kendikong]

I would like to see ZSS and shiek bouncing fish to be more easily punishable. Tired of scrubs just spamming them constantly and getting away with it.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I've mentioned this in a few other places, but there are ways to *properly* pull in the reels on Sheik without actually touching her framedata.

For example, one could remove the absurdly sized disjoints from her Fair/Nair/Bair, meaning she has to space her moves properly or face a complete whiff/shieldgrab.

One could reduce the speed at which Needle Storm travels, thus making into a move that DOESN'T completely wreck the neutral against a large majority of the cast.

And one could just increase the knockback growth (and decrease the base knockback) of Dthrow, making it combo into Uair at all of the percents it's supposed to, but not at percents where it will kill.

Simple changes that would allow Sheik to continue to run around like a blitzy little vixen, but at least now it's fair enough. Also if Sheik were to get all of those changes (heavily doubt it), I would also say power up her down and forward smashes so they kill earlier.

I like that idea better actually. It feels like the Balanced Brawl Approach

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Fixing the hitboxes wouldn't do much if anything for either character. Samus's dash attack in particular would be ridiculous if it matched the animation... Like, frame three, maybe two? Pit's dash attack also has a gigantic blind spot, albit it makes more sense, but we don't say it's a bad move because of it. We say lrn 2 space and talk about how it's a great move. Similarly, Pit's Usmash has hitbox issues (front mostly goes over the opponent's head just like Samus's, back portion of the move doesn't remotely match, gigantic blind spot within Pit) but I don't think anybody would call it a bad move.

Samus's melee game would be a lot less terrible if her hitboxes came out when and where they should instead of exposing her long limbs to enemy attacks without a protective hitbox. As for her dash attack, either the hitbox could change to match the animation (or the animation could change to match the hitbox!) or there could be a GFX to show when and where the hitbox actually is, like Ganondorf's dash attack has. That would work just fine as well, to be quite honest.

I actually don't have a problem with the "blind spot" on Mewtwo's FSmash, since the GFX shows you exactly where the hitbox is. I think Samus's FSmash has wind GFX over the punch to show where the hitbox is as well, on top of the explosion at the tip, so I don't really have a problem with that either. The problems I have with Mewtwo's attacks are his Up Smash which has a tiny initial hit now since they nerfed it (without changing the GFX), his Up Tilt which whiffs at the front when it clearly looks like it should hit and has too much startup/endlag, his Up Air which does the same thing, his Forward Tilt where the hitbox doesn't go all the way to the tip of his tail (and which needs the sweetspot/sourspot swapped so he can actually space it and so it looks more in line with the whip-like animation), and his Down Smash which has too much startup for its range.

Similarly, Pit's Up Smash should actually be adjusted to have its animation match its hitboxes, if not the other way around. All you really have to do is make the sword trail on each strike end slightly earlier.

 

[TurboLink]

Really wanting to see get a needle nerf. More endlag both on startup and ending. She's absolutely suffocating the meta at the moment. She needs it. I absolutely think nerfing fair is the wrong way to go with a nerf. She's a fast ninja combo character, her fair should be awesome. Her ability to camp so well is the big issue here.

Sheik's needles have already been nerfed by adding more end lag in the past. Her needles don't need more end lag.

Sheik is absolutely getting a nerf. Sheik mains are crazy if they don't think they're getting nerfed. I personally think it's going to be needles that get nerfed, maybe more startup/endlag, shorter range (seriously, range of needles is stupid, at least on the ground). Maybe a vanish nerf? Vunerablity frames or something?

As someone who recently picked up Sheik to learn how to play her to spite the meta and growing to like the character, she absoutley needs something done to her.

How are Sheik mains crazy for thinking Sheik won't be significantly nerfed next patch when she was barely touched last patch?

I've mentioned this in a few other places, but there are ways to *properly* pull in the reels on Sheik without actually touching her framedata.

For example, one could remove the absurdly sized disjoints from her Fair/Nair/Bair, meaning she has to space her moves properly or face a complete whiff/shieldgrab.

One could reduce the speed at which Needle Storm travels, thus making into a move that DOESN'T completely wreck the neutral against a large majority of the cast.

And one could just increase the knockback growth (and decrease the base knockback) of Dthrow, making it combo into Uair at all of the percents it's supposed to, but not at percents where it will kill.

Simple changes that would allow Sheik to continue to run around like a blitzy little vixen, but at least now it's fair enough. Also if Sheik were to get all of those changes (heavily doubt it), I would also say power up her down and forward smashes so they kill earlier.

Sheik already has to space her fair to avoid being shieldgrabbed. And I believe the same applies to bair and nair as well.

As for the Dthrow nerf, learn how to DI and jump. Dthrow to uair in general is not a true combo at high percents.

And she doesn't need a buff to her smash attacks, just give her her old Bouncing fish back.

I was gonna say for a moment about the D Tier thing.

Shiek can be good all she wants without lame tactics(fair down-b). Zero Suit would most likely be nerfed way before Mario ever does. Uair to Up-B is really stupid honestly and Mario is pretty balanced(I think Pit might be even more balanced now but idk).

How is fair to down special a "lame tactic?"

 

[John12346]

Sheik already has to space her fair to avoid being shieldgrabbed. And I believe the same applies to bair and nair as well.

What I was getting at here is that, for the framedata and comboability this move already has, it appears a bit too outlandish for the moves to have disjoint at all really. I think there should be a distance from the opponent where Sheik can Fair a shield and be safe, of course, but my problem is that the range of "safe" distances where you can hit a shield is MASSIVE right now.

As for the Dthrow nerf, learn how to DI and jump. Dthrow to uair in general is not a true combo at high percents.

Oh and this one's worth mentioning, because it's not well known, but when you're in hitstun in this game, you're allowed to airdodge a good deal earlier than you are able to jump. Until you're at like 160 damage, mashing jump after being Dthrown will just get you Uaired, even if you DI'd properly. I tested this one extensively to make sure 100%.

 

[me quazzy]

Why in your opinion does Falcon need a nerf? Has no range, limited approach options and his predictable, not so great recovery makes him gimpale. This keeps him out of the top tier, while giving him a lot of speed power assets...



Rosaluma is probably top tier...

But I am not sure what nerfs can be put in place that don't gimp her out of viability.

Already really floaty and dies early.

Luma dies real quickly if hit near the edge of the stage.


When Luma is down, so much of her game is missing... the term sitting duck has been used to describe it by some of the top players.

No hit box on her very difficult and frustrating to use recovery move... recovery is just one of the things on this character that players have to work a lot harder to figure out than the rest of the cast.

In non competitive matches she is difficult to use.


What nerfs do you propose that don't knock her to bottom half of the cast?

Admittedly I am biased with the work I have put into her... and not wanting to see it go down the drain and start form scratch again...



Rosalina has 150% rage... she dies pretty early thanks to her lightweight and floatyness making it quite rare that she will last that long.

In that vid, I could be wrong... but I don't think peach did anything to DI out of it... seems like a video staged to make a point.... I'd like to see the whole match to see if I am wrong.

Uair is a main kill move... nerfing that would be a huge nerf to her viability in and out of competitive play. Got to be really careful when nerfing a

She's not that much of a sitting duck. 90% of Rosalinas I've faced will always use any arial, all smash attacks, and rolling until Luma comes back. They're like camping Links except you can't actually punish her. The only moves I see with any end lag that's punishable is her fair, nair, and bair. Her floatyness only make it easier for her to get away. And once Luma comes back it can basically make approaching impossible if you're not using a character with ranged moves since it basically bodies all the damage for Rosalina. And it's not like the Luma doesn't do any damage. Luma does 3-4 damage on most attacks except dair, up tilt, and jab which do 5-8 damage. Add that to Rosalina's average damage and it becomes stronger than most character's outputs. My suggestion is that she needs either more end frames on some smash attacks, less damage output by her or luma, or maybe just a bigger re spawn time for Luma

 

[Gimmick]

Things I'd like to see...

Shiek nerf (more knock back on f-air, more start-up and less distance on needles, and less safety on bouncing fish).

Rosilina nerf (Luma dies quicker, there's an indicator for when Luma is about to come back, and less knock back on Luma attacks).

Removal of Sonic & Wario...

Palutena buffs (increase n-air hit box, increased u-air hit box, make it so that you can attack out of up special, and less end lag on neutral special).

Buff Ryu, Pac-Man, & Lucina.

New stage...
New mii costumes...
New character... Maybe???

 

[JAZZ_]

Things I'd like to see...

Shiek nerf (more knock back on f-air, more start-up and less distance on needles, and less safety on bouncing fish).

Rosilina nerf (Luma dies quicker, there's an indicator for when Luma is about to come back, and less knock back on Luma attacks).

Removal of Sonic & Wario...

Palutena buffs (increase n-air hit box, increased u-air hit box, make it so that you can attack out of up special, and less end lag on neutral special).

Buff Ryu, Pac-Man, & Lucina.

New stage...
New mii costumes...
New character... Maybe???

BUFF RYU? are you insane? he doesnt need any buffs hes a well thought out character. Buff the low tiers Cough, cough (SAMUS)

 

[XenoBlur]

I will just ignore this thread and make another one (obviously sarcasm) because in this thread people only want nerfs for Sheik/Rosa and make her bad and buff their character that are good right now, like Mario, Ryu or Pac ( Maybe Pac a grab buff) but seriously guys you aren't making any predictions and this thread is for that, make one for saltiness and there make all kind of stupid arguments to make Sheik or any top tier character that for you are extremely and stupidly OP worse and you high tier character better.
My prediction is what I mentioned earlier and maybe ramdom Zelda and low tier buffs that would help at all.

 

[Joaco]

Title says patch predictions

actual thread content is patch wishlist

i'm confused.

That's how it works here, scrubs think that Sakurai reads this and will buff their low tier character.

 

[KawaiiPiranha]

I'm expecting the Mario Maker stage and that's it.

I'm not even expecting any balance patches.

 

[DK-RULES]

If there were a balance patch, what should they change? Here are some ideas I had:


+ Make his up throw do more knockback.


- Slightly more endlag on F-air.
- Slightly less knockback on Bouncing Fish.


+ Make Bonus Fruit charge slightly quicker.
+ Make smash attacks do slightly more knockback.


- Make B-throw do less knockback, especially vertically.


+ Make Super Jump Punch go slightly farther (includes custom moves).


+ Make tipper cover slightly more area.


+ Increase knockback on Rest (not necessarily to Melee status, though that would be nice).


+ Increase his weight.


+ Buff his Jolt Haymaker in terms of recovery to pre-1.0.4.


+ Make one of his aerials combo into itself.


- Decrease knockback on Luma's moves.


+ Revert N-air to its Melee form (if possible).

+DK-get rid of that super long landing lag from up-B.

IMO that needs to go.

 

[ClutchCity]

nerf incoming.

 

[AkumaKing]

I just want more combos for Marth and I'll be happy =3= I don't exactly predict it, though.

 

[Adamas]

how about we leave the top tiers alone for a bit and turn attention to those who ACTUALLY NEED the attention

Damn straight

 

[XenoBlur]

Buff prediction
I think (wish) Zelda will get a big buff tomorrow, hope she gets better, Samus and Mewtwo as well. Ganondorf not that big, like less lag on his moves like d-air or up-air by little frames. And a tiny buff for Falco and Marth/Lucina but it will make a difference.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

For Lucina, her attacks should be coded to be as safe on shield as Marth's weaker nontipped hitboxes. That might help her out.

OH, forgot one major thing. Please, oh PLEASE, give Pit and Dank Pit some actually significant differences besides two specials and a f-tilt.

NO!
Pit and Dark Pit should not be ruined because of Lucena and Doc are different from Mario and Marth.

Besides, they have jabs different now

Sheik's needles have already been nerfed by adding more end lag in the past. Her needles don't need more end lag.



How are Sheik mains crazy for thinking Sheik won't be significantly nerfed next patch when she was barely touched last patch?



Sheik already has to space her fair to avoid being shieldgrabbed. And I believe the same applies to bair and nair as well.

As for the Dthrow nerf, learn how to DI and jump. Dthrow to uair in general is not a true combo at high percents.

And she doesn't need a buff to her smash attacks, just give her her old Bouncing fish back.



How is fair to down special a "lame tactic?"

Everyone who mains Shiek uses it to death, just like the Hoo Haa

 

[MOI-ARI]

If anybody needs buffz it would be Rosalina :0 Her Up Air needs to be faster and maybe moar strongerer also has too much lag from 4 any real use... >_< Lyke Really Sakurooroo?! Luma dies too fast and needs to be voiced by Rick and Morty guy. Iwata would be plzzed.

just sayn btw imho ftw yolo