Secondaries for ROB

[Bees!]

Ya I know this has probably been talked about before but I want to talk about it again.

Basically I agree with Stingers post that ROB needs a secondary for D3. Also I tried for a while to second Diddy but doesn't make a good secondary.(A better main really) So I was wondering what peoples thoughts were that would be a good secondary for ROB?

It could even be something unorthodox as long as it works for countering D3.

 

[sneakytako]

Falco ***** D3, does well against MK and ZSS so I'm picking him up. IC's is probably a good 2ndary too.

Edit: Personally Bees I think Falco is harder to pick up than ICs, Falco is really technical and frame accurate. CG's are easy compared to phantom cancelling, BDACUS, etc.

 

[Bees!]

Ya I am considering Falco. Idk about ICs though. They seem to me a lot like Diddy(better as a main because of the steep learning curve. But still some people will think otherwise. So that still good.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Both IC and Falco are pretty tech heavy. MK would be your better option imo. Less learning curve.

Falco ***** D3

good DDDs will know the mu imo and theres a certain way you have play the DDD vs falco mu from my experience. So if you dont have that figured out, you'll be the one getting *****

 

[Bees!]

Falco isn't that tech heavy. Especially when vs DDD. Really its just camping really hard and avoiding D3.

 

[Bees!]

in this order...

worst (65-35 or approaching so) - mk [falco, ice climbers]...people debate whether falco or ICs are worse but really, they're both really ****ty
bad (disadvantage but not absurd) - olimar...used to be thought of as a hard counter, not really anymore
contested (some say even, some say they counter) - pikachu, zero suit samus, diddy, fox...there's dissent in opinions.

i throw diddy in there, though i'm apparently the only one that thinks so. might just be a bad matchup but at the highest levels of play, i feel like diddy shuts down all of our options.

everything else, though, is either even or in our favor. keep in mind that top list isn't just my opinion--i think ddd/zss is even, as is ddd/fox, but i'm just trying to give the general view here.

Thought this might help things...

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Falco isn't that tech heavy. Especially when vs DDD. Really its just camping really hard and avoiding D3.

try bdacus'ing on command, its not very easy to do

lasering in and of itself is also a key factor in playing the match as well-- falco has different variations of lasering all that work differently to achieve diff results. Its tru campin hard and avoiding ddd is part of how you win it but its not unwinnable for DDD. All the DDD has to do is pshield lasers, n' attacks and punish accordingly. Consider this, Falcos CG lasts till 65% to spike or w/e he ends up following up with, gl trying to kill a good DDD that knows how to DI and pshield falcos kill moves. MK and IC is much more of a challenge for DDD to over come. IC can 0-death whenever where ever. And they have very safe guaranteed kill moves out of CGing and their grab game in general. MK has aerial SL, Nado, dair, nair, dsmash. Rly anything thats fresh will kill DDD at 120% SL can stage spike at low %. N theres always uair strings to nado death off the top.

@coneys response, hes been having alot of trouble with the falco mu as of currently so idk what to say really @ him. He just has to figure it out for himself what he has to do.

 

[Bees!]

Okay. and I see what you are saying. But on the opposite side it may be winnable for D3 but consider the change in MU from ROB vs D3. Also what about Olimar, Pikachu, and Fox? What are your takes on that Dark 3nergy?

 

[Mister Eric]

Secondary R.O.B.!

xD

nah, I do agree that a 2nd is a smart move.
it can also just prevent a lot of frustration which is healthy if you want to keep up a smash "career."

It's just a comfort thing for me to keep playing rob even in his "difficult" MUs. Due to B-reversals, I'm now finding more options for my robot. Not to mention it's been a struggle with so many people either dropping rob or not trying to progress him in his harder MUs. I'd prefer to collaborate styles and ideas rather than trying to create your own entirely because you can easily miss things so simple for your robot to do.

Anywho, I would love to help out with this thread tho. I've been in a bit of a slum lately with a lot of things going on in my head and in my life. So this would be a good remedy for it ^_^

I think I remember hearing that g&w was a good 2nd for rob. isnt it?

 

[stingers]

b reversals dont help vs. ddd. being juggled is not a problem vs. ddd. he just shuts down all of our options on the ground. its very annoying.

 

[Bees!]

See every DDD I played B reversals worked fine as long as you throw other things in there. My problem is once I get to the ground.
Either way if I am in the lead this MU is a little easier until I get grabbed once and lose my 60-70% lead. then this MU is a nightmare because ROB then has to approach.

 

[stingers]

no you don't have to approach just because you don't have the lead. you only have to approach when you'll lose if you don't.

 

[Bees!]

Fino told me Olimar is good vs DDD and its easy apparently to play Oli against DDD you just camp throw pikmin and pivot grab. Then kill DDD at like 150 or so.
Idk
Falco
Olimar
Fox
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit

By the way...How does ZSS do anyone> I wouldn't mind seconding her <3

 

[stingers]

ZSS is my secondary. she only does alright vs ddd and gets ***** vs falco. so idk how good of a secondary she really is

 

[Bees!]

awww but I love de boobehs

Hmmm
well maybe Pikachu?

 

[Mister Eric]

b reversals dont help vs. ddd. being juggled is not a problem vs. ddd. he just shuts down all of our options on the ground. its very annoying.

idk, I could really see the up b-reversal working since it gives you such a shift in momentum and you can fastfall back air to the stage.

 

[Cubone]

Strictly looking at MUs Pikachu is a good 2nd. Thats who I use =3

 

[stingers]

Strictly looking at MUs Pikachu is a good 2nd. Thats who I use =3

Hm. Pika has always been my fave char, but Im just soo bad with him. maybe I should try and get serious with him...

 

[Mister Eric]

Pikachuuu is one of my favoritist chars to play on the side.
My others are:
Mario, Falcon, IC, Diddy, and a little G&W + Fox
(i think that covers it)
I never play these in tourney tho =/

 

[Silhouette]

Pika is one of my best secondaries, but like Eric, I'm pretty strict 100% ROB in tourney.

Tho I may be bringin Pika, GW, or IC's out soon, for the tough MU's.

Back in the day I tried some Diddy, and even MK, in tourney to help with the MK MU, but I didnt have control of them like I do ROB so its become a factor of either outplaying their MK with ROB or losing.

 

[Bees!]

Pikachuuu is one of my favoritist chars to play on the side.
My others are:
Mario, Falcon, IC, Diddy, and a little G&W + Fox
(i think that covers it)
I never play these in tourney tho =/

Did you say Mario? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFas_T38WZo

I love playing Mario and Zelda.

But ya I am considering between 2 secondaries then.
Pikachu and Zero Suit Samus. I know she may not be very good vs Falco but she is so amazing.
Idk for a while I am going all ROB in tourneys however I will learn a couple of characters in the meantime for use against D3. Odds are by the time I have to fight a D3 I will have more practice with other characters.

 

[Cubone]

I've also played around with GW and Diddy but meh. Pikachu is my 2nd favorite in the game anyway and he covers the matchups so yea. =3

 

[Bees!]

I entertained the idea of seconding Pika a while back. However, I have always wanted to play ZSS as a secondary.

 

[Mister Eric]

I've also played around with GW and Diddy but meh. Pikachu is my 2nd favorite in the game anyway and he covers the matchups so yea. =3

You should play Cubone xP

Did you say Mario? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFas_T38WZo

That first stock earned you the princess! xD

 

[Nova9000]

I mostly go all ROB now. I also play DK, GW, and I've been picking up Wario as of recent. Against D3 I don't have much experience outside of friendlies with. I do know that with GW it's very stage dependent; you need platforms to stand a chance against D3.

I also tried Pika a while back, but never got the hang of QAC. Might pick him back up as well.

 

[Cubone]

You should play Cubone xP



That first stock earned you the princess! xD

If only I could :'(

Spoiler

other than that mod I seen on brawlvault

Funny thing is that me and a friend had a discussion about this and had a full moveset for him =3

I mostly go all ROB now. I also play DK, GW, and I've been picking up Wario as of recent. Against D3 I don't have much experience outside of friendlies with. I do know that with GW it's very stage dependent; you need platforms to stand a chance against D3.

I also tried Pika a while back, but never got the hang of QAC. Might pick him back up as well.

I find GW to be useful on some cp stages, like Brinstar, Green Greens, and RC. Its not that I find ROB that lacking on RC and Green Greens but GW seems to get much more benefit out of them. Purely looking at matchups though I can't think of any I'd rather be GW than Pikachu or ROB though.

 

[Zwarm]

Overall, having Dedede as a secondary has worked out well for me. I use him for MK, Marth, Snake, Diddy on certain CP's, and random lower tiers that I don't know the MU with as ROB and can CG them.

The main problem is still Falco, Olimar to a degree, MK (although I find Dedede a lot better for this, mainly because I'm more comfortable with the MU.) To make up for that, I picked up IC's, but I don't really practice Brawl that much anymore, so I'm pretty much just trying to play all MU's as ROB/D3.

 

[Cubone]

Overall, having Dedede as a secondary has worked out well for me. I use him for MK, Marth, Snake, Diddy on certain CP's, and random lower tiers that I don't know the MU with as ROB and can CG them.

The main problem is still Falco, Olimar to a degree, MK (although I find Dedede a lot better for this, mainly because I'm more comfortable with the MU.) To make up for that, I picked up IC's, but I don't really practice Brawl that much anymore, so I'm pretty much just trying to play all MU's as ROB/D3.

That mention of olimar made me think of Olimar's discussion on the ROB mu. They swear we win in it lol.

ROBs only serious threats mu wise though are MK, DDD, and maybe ZSS right?

 

[Zwarm]

Yeah, pretty much. I guess Dedede doesn't do well against ZSS either, but oh well, I can't play anyone else besides ROB/D3 effectively, even if I wanted to. So I guess I have to learn that MU too, although the only ZSS I've ever faced was YbM at ISA last month in mid tiers, so she's not a huge worry for me.

 

[ccst]

Or do 100 % R.O.B. all the time!

 

[Exalted]

!

Nobody has trained the MU.

 

[Zwarm]

Or do 100 % R.O.B. all the time!

Haha, I would... But I at least need Dedede for the MK MU, I just can't do it with ROB. Dedede just lives so much longer and has so many more options against nado compared to ROB.

!

Nobody has trained the MU.

I laugh at you, good sir, for I train with DLA, and know all of Ganon's little trixies. I think it's safe to say I wouldn't lose to a Ganon so easily.

Spoiler

Unless we're on BF, ask DLA, I get wrecked there as ROB. XD

Point is, I've trained that MU plenty.

 

[Exalted]

Well, Ganon mains most likely lose even if we somehow win. That is the way of Ganon.

 

[koing]

i was trying to secondary PT but was failing misrebly so i tryed lucario and was pleasently suprised how easy he is to pick up

 

[Mister Eric]

If only I could :'(

Spoiler

other than that mod I seen on brawlvault

Funny thing is that me and a friend had a discussion about this and had a full moveset for him =3

Hah, that would be too cute for smash anyways.
I'm already distracted enough by rob's smexehness

Spoiler

oo baby -beeps-

 

[Silhouette]

imo I think Peach can be tougher than ZSS, my last tourney match with KingBeef he had a rather effective way of shutting me down.

Basically she wins up close, with a Jab that beats the crap outta ours, and her float approaches avoid tilts. If you try to Fair her float you will easily eat her Fair, which reaches our extended hurtboxes through disjoint. And to top it off, you cant beat the priority of her Up-B, making her tough to gimp.

 

[Teh Future]

when rob mains pick up secondary they end up dropping the character because they realize how bad his matchups are. i dont think this has ever not been the case the only people that still play rob play exclusively rob. the only exception i can think of is kira and i have no idea why he doesnt just play pit lol

 

[TeeVee]

when rob mains pick up secondary they end up dropping the character because they realize how bad his matchups are. i dont think this has ever not been the case the only people that still play rob play exclusively rob. the only exception i can think of is kira and i have no idea why he doesnt just play pit lol

*coughs*


also, rob ****s on almost everyone below mid tier. beats ics and diddy (which is extremely useful) and imo beats marth. considering how easy he is to pick up, hes an amazing secondary.

 

[Teh Future]

*coughs*


also, rob ****s on almost everyone below mid tier.

below mid tier... is low tier... lol most characters starstarstarstar on low tiers

not to mention ike yoshi mario falcon and link do not get starstarstarstard by rob at all

 

[Zwarm]

not to mention ike yoshi mario falcon and link do not get starstarstarstard by rob at all

Zelda and Samus don't either, imo.