San Diego Lovin' - Triweekly XXXII - December 1st

[Engdrew]

Are we playing today? I can drop by for a little bit.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

jun's points are pretty good except his main point is completely false. Some SD guy told me you guys had two smashfests a week during summer so not playing enough is completely wrong

it was expensive yep

lack of hype... mexico, norcal, vegas came, amazing matches happened too


Irvine >>> SD

Some guy? Sounds like you could be making this up for your own convenience. Here's a tip: if you need to quote someone else to prove a point, you better have a name -- because we know for a fact that you don't personally know how active SD has been. What if I told you that some guy said you're just raging because you wanted more prize money?

What likely happened is that you misread or misremembered someone's post, since what you said is a distortion of the truth. SD had two smashfests a week during the UCSD academic year, because that's when the largest number of Melee players were here. Summer smashfests happened, but infrequently and sporadically, with less people who spent fewer hours playing.

Now what are you really upset about? Is it that this tournament was poorly planned and the result was a poor event? If that's the case, then your cries are misdirected and your posts in this thread are unnecessary. Pat is the go-to person for tournaments in San Diego, yet he is the one person you are excluding from your generalized contempt. (I am not blaming him either.) Nearly everyone else who browses this thread did not volunteer themselves to be responsible for running this tournament, and they are not accountable for anything that went wrong with it. Identify the people who were actually involved and complain to them.

Or are you just upset because many San Diego players didn't attend? If that's the case, then you just need to stop being spoiled. No one is obligated to attend a tournament simply because they play Melee and happen to live nearby. It doesn't matter whether we were prepared or not, and it doesn't matter whether we legitimately had something else to do or if we just thought the asking prices were too steep. I personally work two jobs, and how I choose to spend my time off is entirely my prerogative.

You are never going to force people to go to tournaments. You can only make them want to go, but right now you aren't succeeding.

 

[Deleted member]

i already stopped caring lol

 

[shaseim4st3r]

lol good job losing the argument s2j.

 

[AntoPark]

IRVINEEEEE. Miss you guys, I'll come down after midterms are done if you guys host a triweekly!

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

im shooting this out there now.

WINTER GAMEFEST:
We can no longer place an entry fee on Smash Melee/Brawl.
Payouts will either be GiftCards/ Material Prizes. No Cash Prize.

The student council brought about this dumb infraction of their rules mainly for a few reason:
1. We are not suppose to place a fee on students for events, as such we can't place a fee on outsiders
2. The event was meant mainly for students, but the council felt smash did not cater to students, but
rather to pro smashers.
3. They found it unfair that the Smash Tournament prizes ammounted to $4000 in total, while any other
tournament prize total was less than $1000.(Engdrew has the exact numbers on this)

Me or someone else will be discussing this to Pat. Tho i feel Pat shouldn't be hosting this **** tournament for unorganized students to begin with.

 

[Vionce]

they're just jealous that smash is so good

 

[Vouge]

I'm not sure about what Andrew has to say about this, but I think tech can definitely make an argument in student council. These funding policies are probably not in sixth college's bylaws and, if they are now, the fact that they are affecting your committee this year could be construed as being unfair. I suggest, if you guys really care about the smash component of wgf and want to continue to grow it, that you guys try to make an argument to council and encourage a more salient discussion. Alternatively, we could throw a tournament similar to pats(not our pat) house, that was thrown 2 years ago in the lodge around the same time. We could call it winter smash fest. Despite it not being directly related to wgf, retaining the hype that people have for a tournament at ucsd could be useful. In a few years your paycheck is going to be coming from deeper pockets(A.S.) They will probably be willing to foot the bill more than sixth, allowing you to reattach smash later.

Concurrently, sixth college student council is pretty broke. WGF is an awesome event, but many of its top contenders are not ucsd students. For a council that is focused primarily on sixth college students this is probably considered a horrible factor and a drain of funds. If your going to make any argument to council you'll probably have to over come this point or be very compelling despite it.

 

[Glöwworm]

im shooting this out there now.

WINTER GAMEFEST:
We can no longer place an entry fee on Smash Melee/Brawl.
Payouts will either be GiftCards/ Material Prizes. No Cash Prize.

The student council brought about this dumb infraction of their rules mainly for a few reason:
1. We are not suppose to place a fee on students for events, as such we can't place a fee on outsiders
2. The event was meant mainly for students, but the council felt smash did not cater to students, but
rather to pro smashers.
3. They found it unfair that the Smash Tournament prizes ammounted to $4000 in total, while any other
tournament prize total was less than $1000.(Engdrew has the exact numbers on this)

Me or someone else will be discussing this to Pat. Tho i feel Pat shouldn't be hosting this **** tournament for unorganized students to begin with.

Hopefully this gets resolved

 

[Jun.]

The members of the student council need to smoke2joints and chill the **** out

 

[W.A.S.T.E.]

The members of the student council need to smoke2joints and chill the **** out

Looking at the recent activity in this thread, it seems that smoking2joints may not be enough to chill the **** out.

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

@tristan, the Coordinator for tech committee is pretty anal about this subject, and andrew was there when this was mention.
about whether they care about the smash component of WGF, they dont give a ****. they are willing to kill off smash, they won't let us continue with placing entry fees.

The coordinator thinks that, if WGF's fan base and player base comes majorly from smash, then there is a need to expand out into different games, ones that students will partake/"WIN" in. We argued ur points to the coordinator alrdy, but she is of the stand point that melee should not be there to attract "PROS" with prize money, but to provide fun for "students" and reward them.

 

[Jun.]

lets not kid ourselves here

we are students

and we are pros

 

[Glöwworm]

OK, I'll transfer to UCSD after getting out of community college

 

[Vouge]

@tristan, the A.S. are pretty anal about this subject, and andrew was there when this was mention.
about whether they care about the smash component of WGF, they dont give a ****. they are willing to kill off smash, they won't let us continue with placing entry fees.

The Coordinator thinks that, if WGF's fan base and player base comes majorly from smash, then there is a need to expand out into different games, ones that students will partake/"WIN" in. We argued ur points to the coordinator alrdy, but she is of the stand point that melee should not be there to attract "PROS" with prize money, but to provide fun for "students" and reward them.

Um, I didn't mean to say that they care, they most certainly don't, but rather that if you care there are actions you can take. The expansion of wgf to fit a base of participants that is more student based exemplifies an alternative perspective that winter gamefest's success is not contingent on. Wgf's professional participants are a show in themselves and people attend to be able to see professionals play in addition to play themselves. Eliminate the professional component and a part of the draw disappears.

The extent to which everything I said is true can be argued, it can also be argued that the financial structure(sponsorships) of wgf this year will suffer with less professional participation.

Also, who in A.S. did you talk too? Are you sure it wasn't kati/elaine from sixth college? They have very different perspectives about how wgf should function then how it could function in several years as an A.S. event.

I'm gonna call andrew about this... >___>

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

i made a mistake by saying A.S., i meant the coordinator for tech committee that oversees our events. she is a *****.

 

[Jun.]

Marcia?

She screwed over DVC too

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

Spoiler

the fat girl? if so ya, she screwing over WGF.

result of me high...

 

[Vouge]

Faculty bashing is probably not going to accomplish much for the tournament... and Elaine(who im pretty sure is the one you've been dealing with) is not that bad, she's been behind many of sixth colleges events for years. At this point I think it'd be best to commit to a difficult fight or alternative courses of action.

I found out today that the lodge will be open early October by the way.

 

[Vionce]

but she is of the stand point that melee should not be there to attract "PROS" with prize money, but to provide fun for "students" and reward them.

there is no fun if there are no pros, we'd pretty much be giving the win to jesse. The reward is the pros coming and we are the students whose opinions are the only ones that matter for something like this.

 

[Glöwworm]

I can sort of understand where they're coming from. However, iirc WGF is heavily advertised outside of school. So how can they say it's for the students, and then have WGF covered on the news and online articles? That's bound to bring people outside of UCSD

For example, I had a couple friends last year whom I've never thought would hear about WGF, somehow knew about that and attended. So, Idk.

OR maybe I'm just misinformed lol.

 

[AzN_Lep]

I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. So WGF in all likelihood isn't going to be the massive event with Dr PP and M2K thats it's been in the past, but that doesn't mean it's not going to be awesome. APEX is literally a week before WGF, so even if we were to have everything as it was last year, outside attendance would probably still take a pretty big hit. What we can do is just what the school wants WGF to be. A massive gamefest catered towards the students and locals. If we made the went free and still guaranteed say, a 500 dollar pot between both games, the turn out would be great. 500 is just a number for the sake of making this case, it could be less, could be more. Point is, even if first was 50 bucks, students would love to come and play if it's free. Here's where things can get really fun. Now let's say we have ~100 entrants and virtually no pros. All of a sudden our 15 players get to be freaking amazing. Homeruntom goes 12-0 in pools, Tristan vs Eric in winner semis on the projector, Jesse gets knocked out in round 1 pools. I dunno maybe I'm just a little bored with the tournament scene as it is, but I feel like this has a huge potential to shake things up and be really fun for the students. Maybe we'll even find a few diamonds in the rough to add to a group. And if some outside competition wants to come down for a free tournament, great. Either way I think it'd be a really neat experience for all the kids that have been playing in SD for all these years.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Double post: Elaine is great, she's the reason why we've been able to run things in past gets without dealing with tue atrocity of the box-office. So if were gonna pin the "no cash" deal on someone , she's not the person.

 

[AntoPark]

Whoa, you guys already have a date for WGF?

 

[AzN_Lep]

It's MLK weekend pretty much every year. People just dont know that.

 

[Sizzle]

And that is why Pat is the man.

 

[Vouge]

@pat

Lool, I forgot about apex. Yeah, you're totally right, smash is gonna be fine no matter the size if the pot. wgf, is gonna be a different sort of tournament now though, no doubt. I kinda liked seeing mango-pp but tom-ky would still be pretty cool. I'm pretty hyped for what wgf could offer.

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

My badz on my last 2 post. was high >_>. i wouldn't normally hate on ppl i dont kno. I put the blame on Elaine(?) when it was the committee she was a part of and was representing. I could have stated it a lot better.

all in all. I posted the news on WGF so you guys would kno that the tournament is gonna be different than last year. WGF is gonna be around 3rd week of Winter QTR i believe.
Well nothing is finalized so we can leave WGF for when it is approaching.

We should post schedules of when we are free to find a good time to play smash. Didnt we do that Winter/Spring last year?

 

[tacoz42]

My badz on my last 2 post. was high >_>. i wouldn't normally hate on ppl i dont kno. I put the blame on Elaine(?) when it was the committee she was a part of and was representing. I could have stated it a lot better.

all in all. I posted the news on WGF so you guys would kno that the tournament is gonna be different than last year. WGF is gonna be around 3rd week of Winter QTR i believe.
Well nothing is finalized so we can leave WGF for when it is approaching.

We should post schedules of when we are free to find a good time to play smash. Didnt we do that Winter/Spring last year?

We did, but nobody really used it. We ended up checking this thread or texted each other.

 

[W.A.S.T.E.]

We did, but nobody really used it. We ended up checking this thread or texted each other.

I think it worked as a solid starting point though and you most certainly cannot forget about the potential new players. I figure establishing individual and overall schedules makes things easier for them to begin with.

It seems that it's always Monday & Friday and whenever you can play in the meantime. I think that worked for the last year or two. hahaha.

 

[DJMirror]

Wintergamefest? I wanna go! Is there gotta be KOF XIII?

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

Wintergamefest? I wanna go! Is there gotta be KOF XIII?

No.

the tournies i can remember are:
Smash Melee
Smash Brawl
StarCraft 2: 1v1
LeagueofLegends: 5v5 - possibly HoN instead
Halo: 1v1 or teams
BlazBlu
SSF4 AE
MVC3 (calm down tristan i said what i remember)(actually im not too sure on this)

We will also try running mini tournies for random games. (e.g Mario Kart)

 

[Vouge]

No.

the tournies i can remember are:
Smash Melee
Smash Brawl
StarCraft 2: 1v1
LeagueofLegends: 5v5 - possibly HoN instead
Halo: 1v1 or teams
BlazBlu
SSF4 AE

We will also try running mini tournies for random games. (e.g Mario Kart)

WTF, where is mvc3/umvc3 ?

 

[tacoz42]

No.

the tournies i can remember are:
Smash Melee
Smash Brawl
StarCraft 2: 1v1
LeagueofLegends: 5v5 - possibly HoN instead
Halo: 1v1 or teams
BlazBlu
SSF4 AE

We will also try running mini tournies for random games. (e.g Mario Kart)

rofl, LoL...no pause, replay, or observer mode. GG.

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

well WGF is all the way in Winter, hopefully riot will release spectator mode by then. Also there are rules for such cases i believe.

 

[tacoz42]

well WGF is all the way in Winter, hopefully riot will release spectator mode by then. Also there are rules for such cases i believe.

I doubt it. They'll probably pump out another 5 generic 6300ip heroes. Will you get access to tournament servers?

 

[Knee.of.Ky]

i am trying to talk to them for that and sponsorship

 

[tacoz42]

i am trying to talk to them for that and sponsorship

Best of luck, Ky. The only way to ensure that everyone has an equal playing field is if you have access to the tournament server where everyone has unlimited RP/IP, otherwise sponsered/professional players have the advantage due to financial reasons.

 

[Engdrew]

S2J: The GameClucks tournament was a failure. If you want to see why look here: http://i.imgur.com/g0UtR.jpg. To summarize: 1. Tournament was poorly organized and had no hype. 2. SD has a largely school based community as others pointed out. Many of us do not go to tournaments on a regular basis (even triweeklies held in our own lodge). You cannot expect our players to spend that much on a tournament. 3. Venue was moved and seeing as how it was no longer on campus…it would hurt the turnout even more. Sorry for bringing this up again.






WGF: I will do my best to answer/address all the issues regarding this coming year’s WGF.

We can no longer charge a registration fee for our SSBM and SSBB tournament. I will try to explain this as unbiased-ly as possible.

Elaine, the Student Life Officer (the person who oversees the committee that plans WGF every year) received notice from higher administration that our event was violating school policy (This is the issue GameClucks ran into as well). Something needs to change, we’ll just have to discuss and see what.

1. Violating UCSD policy: Our tournament is viewed as a form of gambling. Players are paying a registration fee and receiving monetary prizes for a competition based on skill (it was compared to poker). Because of this, we can no longer collect registration fees or find another solution. Pre-registration may not even solve this. Even the box office wouldn’t solve this as the event itself violates policy.

2. Violating the integrity of spending UCSD student money: Student fees are being distributed in tournaments to people not from UCSD. As this is a school sponsored/funded event, we are basically giving $4000 dollars to some of the top Melee and Brawl pros that decide to come to our tournament. As UCSD doesn’t have a lot of top pros that can contend and/or place at a semi-large national, I can see where this is coming from. No offense to Jesse or Pat or anyone else that has the potential to place at WGF, but this poses a problem for our funding for at least the next 3 years.

What will become of WGF? What does this mean for WGF?

As Pat mentioned, WGF is now likely going to be a FREE event with a DRASTICALLY reduced prize pool. Unless a solution arises, this is likely the direction WGF will go this year (will be in line with the other tournaments we hold as well). Participation from people out-of-region and out-of-state will take an expected hit as well. Don’t expect top pros to show up (PP, M2K, etc. or even some of the regional top pros Mango, Lovage) although I do hope Irvine will come . It will have a more casual feel without the regular pressures of a tournament setting. MONEY MATCHES will technically be prohibited as well...but there’s really nothing officially stopping players from doing so. The overall seriousness of the tournament will decrease as well – we will likely see players going secondaries, sandbagging, etc. and therefore the results of this tournament can no longer be taken seriously. I’m honestly being way too negative here. I think the turnout will be just fine and we’re still going to have a blast playing each other and whoever else shows up.

Who’s to blame?

No one. This event is a huge success gathering the attention of gamers across America, local and online news media organizations, and the overall acceptance and respect as the largest single gaming event UCSD has to offer. It is unfortunate that the event has to take a hit like this, but there’s not much we can do about this. APEX is the week before and our attendance was already going to take a hit anyway.





I will answer any questions as I probably have the most knowledge about this event as a whole. Pat can answer a lot of the smash related things, so I will address the logistical things about WGF. I feel like WGF can still be great. We just have to be optimistic about it.



EDIT: Re: DotA vs. HoN vs. LoL (copied from discussion in tech committee and a very generalized approach to picking what to run at WGF)

From what i have seen and heard, there has been debate as to what we should run for the Moba Tournament, and there are many different things to consider.

From what I can tell, it seems that League of Legends (LoL) is the most popular, due to the face that it was made to help newcomers play more easily (this includes a significant demographic we are lacking, namely women/girls).

Heroes of Newerth (HoN) is the most 'true' to the spirit of the original game, and thus seems to have the most highly competitive players (at the moment... we'll have to see what happens when DotA 2 comes out).

DotA, from most accounts, seems to be dying, with most players switching to LoL or HoN.

I found a decent looking review of the two popular versions here:
http://soapboxfornoone.blogspot.com/2010/06/hon-vs-lol-vs-dota.html

So it seems that if we go with DotA, we may likely end up with a few teams of dedicated players with limited audience attraction.

If we go with HoN, we will likely have the most competitive gameplay, but also a potentially limited audience attraction.

If we go with League, we will likely have the greatest number of entrants and audience interest, likely at the cost of high level gameplay. (Also, there are mechanics that were originally in DotA and HoN, which were taken out in League, like xp denying, which makes the game easier for newcomers)

I'm assuming that we will not have the resources to pull off more than one of these tournaments because of the long game types and the large power requirements of the computers involved in gaming. (I realize all you need to run DotA is a laptop, but you all should know that everyone brings in their supercomputer anyways.)

USER BASE
League of Legends
LoL - total accounts - ~15 million
LoL - active accounts - ~4,000,000
From: http://www.neutralcreeps.com/2011/07/league-of-legends-peaks-at-500000.html (Thanks, Ryan)
Heroes of Newerth
HoN - total accounts - ~ 4,838,824
HoN - active accounts - ???
From: http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/players (Thanks, Ryan)
DotA
There is no reliable way I know of to find any current number of DotA players.
From: N/A


The overall conclusion is to run LoL as we will get the most participants. Simple as that.

 

[tacoz42]

EDIT: Re: DotA vs. HoN vs. LoL (copied from discussion in tech committee and a very generalized approach to picking what to run at WGF)

From what i have seen and heard, there has been debate as to what we should run for the Moba Tournament, and there are many different things to consider.

From what I can tell, it seems that League of Legends (LoL) is the most popular, due to the face that it was made to help newcomers play more easily (this includes a significant demographic we are lacking, namely women/girls).

Heroes of Newerth (HoN) is the most 'true' to the spirit of the original game, and thus seems to have the most highly competitive players (at the moment... we'll have to see what happens when DotA 2 comes out).

DotA, from most accounts, seems to be dying, with most players switching to LoL or HoN.

I found a decent looking review of the two popular versions here:
http://soapboxfornoone.blogspot.com/2010/06/hon-vs-lol-vs-dota.html

So it seems that if we go with DotA, we may likely end up with a few teams of dedicated players with limited audience attraction.

If we go with HoN, we will likely have the most competitive gameplay, but also a potentially limited audience attraction.

If we go with League, we will likely have the greatest number of entrants and audience interest, likely at the cost of high level gameplay. (Also, there are mechanics that were originally in DotA and HoN, which were taken out in League, like xp denying, which makes the game easier for newcomers)

I'm assuming that we will not have the resources to pull off more than one of these tournaments because of the long game types and the large power requirements of the computers involved in gaming. (I realize all you need to run DotA is a laptop, but you all should know that everyone brings in their supercomputer anyways.)

USER BASE
League of Legends
LoL - total accounts - ~15 million
LoL - active accounts - ~4,000,000
From: http://www.neutralcreeps.com/2011/07/league-of-legends-peaks-at-500000.html (Thanks, Ryan)
Heroes of Newerth
HoN - total accounts - ~ 4,838,824
HoN - active accounts - ???
From: http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/players (Thanks, Ryan)
DotA
There is no reliable way I know of to find any current number of DotA players.
From: N/A


The overall conclusion is to run LoL as we will get the most participants. Simple as that.

Do note that 15 million is not an accurate number of players for LoL, Engdrew. I'm willing to bet a significant portion of it are smurf/inactive/low level accounts who probably played three games and then quit. Do note, you must get access to the tournament server in order to ensure a fair playing field for everyone(dumb f2p system).

Btw Engdrew, what's your name in DotA? My friend who just destroyed me in 1v1 would like to know haha.