mrtracy
Smash Journeyman
that is a waste of a setup.
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San Diego Lovin' - Triweekly XXXII - December 1st
- Thread starter AzN_Lep
- Start date
soccerdrew17
Smash Journeyman
waste of space on this thread, and thats saying a lot
W.A.S.T.E.
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 680
I'm going to lay waste to you on Friday for making those horrible puns.
The same goes for anyone else who continues to do so.
The same goes for anyone else who continues to do so.
MacD
Banned via Administration
sounds like a smashing good time
Lanstar
Smash Journeyman
Friday is your last chance to play with Connor the Adult before he moves to Florida 
I wish we could do a tournament for him or something.
I wish we could do a tournament for him or something.
Jun.
Smash Lord
AW MAN Connor is moving? booooooFriday is your last chance to play with Connor the Adult before he moves to Florida
I wish we could do a tournament for him or something.
RANKINGS updated. Eric is planning something or just sucks. Sunny stepping it up. Yuta slowly getting up there. TWO days left.
Jack of Blades!
Smash Journeyman
Crap I have work Friday, not gonna go :[
HomeRunTom
Smash Apprentice
since i am really out of shape i'm going to challenge everyone i can to a rank match on friday.
Stocks for pushups. Let's go.
Stocks for pushups. Let's go.
mrtracy
Smash Journeyman
lol oh man sounds intense
soccerdrew17
Smash Journeyman
everyone join in and deny juns challenges. that way he gets to sit there as ky and sunny pass him up
Jack of Blades!
Smash Journeyman
The fact you can just deny people, makes the rankings so moot. LOL just saying.
Jun.
Smash Lord
its only fair, otherwise people will just farm points off of lesser skilled players.
Jack of Blades!
Smash Journeyman
Since I am not gonna make it Friday I'll just explain what I have been thinking about the rankings. Well, it's fair some of the time. You should have groups based on your points, and you can't challenge people who are too low compared to you. However even with that, if you have been playing all day and someone just arrives, even if you are near equal in skill it's still unfair to the guy who just arrived because he isn't warmed up. So one person could challenge another and they must play each other at some point, but they could agree on a date or time of day when both are warmed up. My thoughts aren't totally gathered because I woke up not to long ago lol.
Jun.
Smash Lord
usually if someone isn't warmed up they just say "hey give me a few matches to warm up" and the rank match usually ends up happening. This is another reason why people can deny matches because the player might not be warmed up or haven't been playing recently. The system can't expect people to be playing at the top of their game all the time.
In regards to challenging people who are too low its perfectly fair. As of right now if I played someone who was at a 1400 rating, my win to loss point ratio would be +6/-26. Assuming that the player is lesser skilled, its still very reasonable for them to play me if they think they have a decent chance since the gap of point gain and loss is so big. For them if they've been practicing and beat me it would grant them a massive 26 points while if they lose it would only cost them 6 which is less than half of what they would lose if they played someone at roughly the same rating. And especially in SD there aren't that many people who are so beyond the normal skill level.
The simplicity of the system promotes serious play without putting players against each other for rankings. The primary purpose isn't really to rank us accurately but more to recreate high pressure scenarios so everyone can be more experienced in character selection, counterpicking and having something on the line while playing a match. Its also very good at settling grudges.
In regards to challenging people who are too low its perfectly fair. As of right now if I played someone who was at a 1400 rating, my win to loss point ratio would be +6/-26. Assuming that the player is lesser skilled, its still very reasonable for them to play me if they think they have a decent chance since the gap of point gain and loss is so big. For them if they've been practicing and beat me it would grant them a massive 26 points while if they lose it would only cost them 6 which is less than half of what they would lose if they played someone at roughly the same rating. And especially in SD there aren't that many people who are so beyond the normal skill level.
The simplicity of the system promotes serious play without putting players against each other for rankings. The primary purpose isn't really to rank us accurately but more to recreate high pressure scenarios so everyone can be more experienced in character selection, counterpicking and having something on the line while playing a match. Its also very good at settling grudges.
Jack of Blades!
Smash Journeyman
Well if it's goal is to promote more competition and not make a list of best to worst, then I guess the system works fine how it is *shrugs*
Jun.
Smash Lord
Rankings from best to worst become more and more accurate as the number of matches gets higher. In terms of the rankings right now, disregarding the fact that some players are not using their mains, the rankings of people who have played many matches are very accurate. Sandbagging / not playing seriously is not an excuse.
SNG
Smash Journeyman
Jun should play Jesse, me or eric more.
Jun.
Smash Lord
I played Eric three times and Jesse once over this season. The only other person I played more than once I think is Ky and that's cause we just end up playing a lot.
SNG
Smash Journeyman
gotta play me then! ;]
Jun.
Smash Lord
your nasty falco
1111
1111
SNG
Smash Journeyman
which is, heller good :D
Radical Dreamer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 827
I will challenge people tomorrow.
W.A.S.T.E.
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 680
I don't think we can look at the current rankings as an accurate reflection of skill level.
Something like Eric "potentially" planning something and maybe sandbagging to drop to the bottom invalidates the integrity of the rankings.
Then you have Jun, Ky, Sunny who have played quite a few games the past week while RadicAndrew stays at 1531 for a while.
I think it is only fair to say that the rankings function to put us into high pressure situations. Regulated and organized ranked matches would be a bit more accurate, but as it is, Eric/Jesse/Yuta can play a billion matches with each other while they each play Jun only once. This definitely affects the nature of the rankings and skews point distribution. The only fair assessment would be to look at that group individually and rank the players only according to how they do against each other (Yuta > Eric > Jesse). Yuta might have defeated Jun in a random match , but it isn't necessarily fair to put him above Jun because they only have one match to base that on. His would be placing above him comes from the fact that he's played more matches against lesser players ( Eric, Jesse)
I don't know.
We should do a ranked round robin thingy on Friday.
I will take no prisoners.
Knees to the face.
Blah blah. You suck.
I rule. Blah blah.
Same thing every time.
Also, how many sets have been played?
I would be interested in seeing that.
I feel like it hasn't even been very many.
lol
-Jesse, SNG #1 Fan, Sjrerm #3 Fan
Something like Eric "potentially" planning something and maybe sandbagging to drop to the bottom invalidates the integrity of the rankings.
Then you have Jun, Ky, Sunny who have played quite a few games the past week while RadicAndrew stays at 1531 for a while.
I think it is only fair to say that the rankings function to put us into high pressure situations. Regulated and organized ranked matches would be a bit more accurate, but as it is, Eric/Jesse/Yuta can play a billion matches with each other while they each play Jun only once. This definitely affects the nature of the rankings and skews point distribution. The only fair assessment would be to look at that group individually and rank the players only according to how they do against each other (Yuta > Eric > Jesse). Yuta might have defeated Jun in a random match , but it isn't necessarily fair to put him above Jun because they only have one match to base that on. His would be placing above him comes from the fact that he's played more matches against lesser players ( Eric, Jesse)
I don't know.
We should do a ranked round robin thingy on Friday.
I will take no prisoners.
Knees to the face.
Blah blah. You suck.
I rule. Blah blah.
Same thing every time.
Also, how many sets have been played?
I would be interested in seeing that.
I feel like it hasn't even been very many.
lol
-Jesse, SNG #1 Fan, Sjrerm #3 Fan
Jun.
Smash Lord
Look at it this way. If you play a lot of matches and win most of them, you'll be on top. Eric playing low tiers doesn't really affect anyone except himself which ultimately we have no control over. It would only effect the entire system if someone purposely lost to a specific person numerous times on purpose which never happened in this case. Its a mutual understanding that whenever someone agrees to a match that both people have the intent to win and therefore no match is still valid.
In this season the initial skew was when Ky jumped up after beating David in numerous matches. At first it seemed to be an invalid placement however throughout the quarter Ky beat at least once most of the players below him which just proved that he is roughly in the right place. His placement wasn't as valid when it was based on the results of him playing just one opponent but it gets further legitimized as the number of his opponents increase. Rankings aren't solely dependent on the outcome of a certain matchup but more dependent on consistency.
And in the case of Radical, it is not only due to his inactivity why he didn't move but also EVERYONE else. His points stayed the same for a while however if everyone else under him played a variety of opponents and moved up, Radical's placement would have changed. So in an ideal scenario where there is a high number of trials (matches in this case), inactivity is neither rewarded nor penalized in terms of placement which is what it should be since we can't penalize players for not being able to make time to play a game.
Edit: In the scenario where a small group of people constantly play each other like you mentioned Yuta, Eric, Jesse, it doesn't skew point distribution because the points will be traded back and forth to only 3 people. Points in the overall system are neither gained nor lost so points have to go somewhere. The moment someone in a small group plays someone else it will be evened out since the appropriate amount of points will be distributed to the winner.
Talking about all this reminded me of how accurate I exactly was in calculating all this. I'm sure everyone has had their doubts
I just summed up EVERYONE's points and divided by the number of players and if I did everything correctly the answer should be 1500 since like I said points are neither gained nor lost
I was shocked to see that the answer I got was 1499.5 basically means I didn't ef up anywhere. The .5 missing is most likely from rounding error from me rounding up or down to the nearest whole point which I did for everyone's matches.
In this season the initial skew was when Ky jumped up after beating David in numerous matches. At first it seemed to be an invalid placement however throughout the quarter Ky beat at least once most of the players below him which just proved that he is roughly in the right place. His placement wasn't as valid when it was based on the results of him playing just one opponent but it gets further legitimized as the number of his opponents increase. Rankings aren't solely dependent on the outcome of a certain matchup but more dependent on consistency.
And in the case of Radical, it is not only due to his inactivity why he didn't move but also EVERYONE else. His points stayed the same for a while however if everyone else under him played a variety of opponents and moved up, Radical's placement would have changed. So in an ideal scenario where there is a high number of trials (matches in this case), inactivity is neither rewarded nor penalized in terms of placement which is what it should be since we can't penalize players for not being able to make time to play a game.
Edit: In the scenario where a small group of people constantly play each other like you mentioned Yuta, Eric, Jesse, it doesn't skew point distribution because the points will be traded back and forth to only 3 people. Points in the overall system are neither gained nor lost so points have to go somewhere. The moment someone in a small group plays someone else it will be evened out since the appropriate amount of points will be distributed to the winner.
Talking about all this reminded me of how accurate I exactly was in calculating all this. I'm sure everyone has had their doubts
I just summed up EVERYONE's points and divided by the number of players and if I did everything correctly the answer should be 1500 since like I said points are neither gained nor lost
I was shocked to see that the answer I got was 1499.5 basically means I didn't ef up anywhere. The .5 missing is most likely from rounding error from me rounding up or down to the nearest whole point which I did for everyone's matches.
HomeRunTom
Smash Apprentice
We could structure the system in a way similar to the Halo: Reach arena playlist.
In Arena, a player must play 3-4 games a day to be given a daily rating. The player must then play for at least 6 more days to be placed in a division ranking (Onyx, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Iron). Within each division are percentiles for that division, kind of like tiers (Top 1% Gold basically means you're at the top of the gold division but not quite cutting it for Onyx). If the player remains inactive, his or her division ranking will drop, but if the player continues to perform consistently well then the player will move up a notch in their current division or ascend to the next higher division.
What I'm trying to propose is that a player has to play a certain number of ranked matches before they actually get placed in the "ranked" category. The player will still maintain the ratings that he or she attained from the few matches played, but they will be unranked until they hit the required amount of matches. This is so that current rankings aren't as skewed by certain players having played many matches versus players who are ranked high but have only played a few matches. Those who do end up ranked but remain inactive for a period of time will have their rating lowered slowly throughout the season.
In Arena, a player must play 3-4 games a day to be given a daily rating. The player must then play for at least 6 more days to be placed in a division ranking (Onyx, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Iron). Within each division are percentiles for that division, kind of like tiers (Top 1% Gold basically means you're at the top of the gold division but not quite cutting it for Onyx). If the player remains inactive, his or her division ranking will drop, but if the player continues to perform consistently well then the player will move up a notch in their current division or ascend to the next higher division.
What I'm trying to propose is that a player has to play a certain number of ranked matches before they actually get placed in the "ranked" category. The player will still maintain the ratings that he or she attained from the few matches played, but they will be unranked until they hit the required amount of matches. This is so that current rankings aren't as skewed by certain players having played many matches versus players who are ranked high but have only played a few matches. Those who do end up ranked but remain inactive for a period of time will have their rating lowered slowly throughout the season.
Radical Dreamer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 827
Yeah, **** ain't perfect, whatever. Part of the way the current system works is that it relies on people taking the initiative to challenge people and having the willingness to accept challenges. People like Jun and Eric are obviously taking the initiative, while I personally haven't. I'll accept just about any challenge though, even for my Falcon. If you think someone hasn't been moving lately, take the initiative to challenge them the next time you see them. I will challenge people tomorrow.
outofdashdwz
Smash Lord
Lol just to clarify, I am playing dead serious in my matches. My character choices may or may not be the most sound for the particular match up, but I assure you I am not sandbagging in any matches except for against Sunny on Tuesday in game 1 lol. I did try in all of my matches, and Yuta legitly beat my Mewtwo, David ***** my Yoshi, Ky beat my Link, etc. I did lose a large majority of my matches in the past few days, but it wasn't for the lack of trying. My character choices aren't really sandbagging, I'm just trying to have fun with the game lol. I've kinda lost interest in the game and I'm just trying new things and mixing it up, so don't be offended or anything when I play a low tier, because I guarantee if you take my **** lightly, you will lose lol (Yuta and Jun know what's up with my Kirby... )
)
Vionce
Smash Journeyman
How about the following to stop point abuse and denying matches
- A ranked matched cannot be denyed except for acceptable excuses (such as not having warmup time or a broken controller)
- A person with more points that his opponent cannot challenge that opponent more than once per day
- A person cannot challenge someone with more points more than three times per day unless the opponent agrees to it.
- A ranked matched cannot be denyed except for acceptable excuses (such as not having warmup time or a broken controller)
- A person with more points that his opponent cannot challenge that opponent more than once per day
- A person cannot challenge someone with more points more than three times per day unless the opponent agrees to it.
mrtracy
Smash Journeyman
lol guys. all the rankings accurately reflect is who cares and who doesn't. it's good for playing more seriously, but aside from that it's pretty useless. just hold mini tournaments on fridays or something. if you really want to rank people, just take the aggregate of their tournament results.
stocks for shots tomorrow?
stocks for shots tomorrow?
HomeRunTom
Smash Apprentice
stocks for pushups yo. maybe situps or crunches too.
stopNstart
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2010
- Messages
- 228
Are we still trying to have a tourney next saturday
AzN_Lep
Smash Champion
for next quarter i think we'll just have a weekly swiss RR tournament on fridays or something. that should include pretty much everyone who wants to be on these ranking shenanigans
W.A.S.T.E.
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 680
Stop having fun.Lol just to clarify, I am playing dead serious in my matches. My character choices may or may not be the most sound for the particular match up, but I assure you I am not sandbagging in any matches except for against Sunny on Tuesday in game 1 lol. I did try in all of my matches, and Yuta legitly beat my Mewtwo, David ***** my Yoshi, Ky beat my Link, etc. I did lose a large majority of my matches in the past few days, but it wasn't for the lack of trying. My character choices aren't really sandbagging, I'm just trying to have fun with the game lol. I've kinda lost interest in the game and I'm just trying new things and mixing it up, so don't be offended or anything when I play a low tier, because I guarantee if you take my **** lightly, you will lose lol (Yuta and Jun know what's up with my Kirby...
Your low tiers are better than your Peach.
Your Fox is good too.
Let's Link ditto tomorrow.
Kirby ditto too.
Yes, I am dead serious.
-Jesse, SNG #1 Fan, Saksrjj34rm #3 Fan
Vouge
Smash Journeyman
Eric, let me rank match your peach!!!!!!
mrtracy
Smash Journeyman
smashfest tomorrow at the lodge!
shaseim4st3r
Smash Journeyman
lol these things obviously do not show legitimate ranks, but it does give incentive for people to play seriously in these "ranked matches" and wasnt that the initial goal? to get better by playing seriously? why is everyone discussing so much about this? lol
soccerdrew17
Smash Journeyman
because you suck