Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[shadenexus18]

From the game "Metroid Hunters" (or any other Metroid game) who do you think should be in Brawl and explain why? My own personal opinion, it should be Weavel.

 

[icymatt]

Ridley. He's the most recurring villain in Metroid, and thus deserves such a spot. They will need to make some changes to his design (I.E. size), but if they decide to put him in, he'd be hella cool.

 

[Rhyme]

Ridley will move strangely, so they will have a tough time animating him. It will probably also take a while. I would much rather see Dark Samus in brawl. It would probably save Nintendo some time, plus she is such a notorious villain. Very recent, everyone will know who she is. Plus, the major rivalry in Prime 2, and the complete conflict in Corruption, is between Samus and Dark Samus. It's like having an evil twin to fight. Of course, you knew I would choose Dark Samus over Ridley from the start. I will admit that Ridley does have a much better chance of getting in. What with the most desired character polls and all. And yes Ridley has a longer history than Dark Samus.

Weavel...weavel...wasn't he one of your enemies in Hunters? I don't remember if I ever got to him, I think maybe he appears more than once and I only fought him the first time. Either way, for a new villain, its obviously Dark Samus.

 

[Milo-]

Botha Ridley and Dark Samus seem unlikely to me.

Ridley is the kind of character that, IMO, is unplayable. First, he is TOO big for a game like Smash Bros, second, he would need TOO MANY changes in his design if it wants to stand a chance and since Smash Bros can't do that I think he doesn't stand a chance.

Dark Samus is... Samus. Do we really need another Samus? I think 2 is enough.

IMO, almost any character from Metroid Prime Hunters stand more of a chance than those two.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I have to disagree, I don't think any of the hunters really have that much of a chance compared to Ridley and Dark Samus. They just aren't as recognisable or as important to the series, nor are any really that popular. The only I think may have a chance is the new one from MP3 (Rundus I think he's called), but even his chances are slim.

The only real thing against Ridley is his size, which is kind of a moot point seeing as not all characters retain thier actual size (Bowser is meant to be bigger, and Kirby and Pikachu are way too big). Otherwise he'd be a very interesting character who is arguable the next most important character in the Metroid series after Samus, not to mention is very popular. Dark Samus has the problem of being another Samus, but there is a lot of potential for a unique moveset, and is pretty much the main villain for the Prime story of Metroid. I personally prefer Ridley, but I'd be happy with either (I think we'll only be seeing one more Metroid character)

 

[MiraiGen]

The only real thing against Ridley is his size, which is kind of a moot point seeing as not all characters retain thier actual size (Bowser is meant to be bigger, and Kirby and Pikachu are way too big).

Exactly the counter-point.

See, what I see happening is Ridley getting in (Watch the Melee intro video - Ridley is about half or a third of his usual size) and them making a "Giga Ridley" just like they did with Bowser. I mean, compare Bowser from New Super Mario Bros and Mario 64 versus Melee Bowser. They shrunk him down, then beefed him back up for Giga form. I see them doing that again.

Besides; there need to be more characters from Metroid anyway, and he's one of the very very few likely choices.

As for Dark Samus, I can totally see that. She'd look identical to Samus, except she'd float in the air. Borrow her moves from Metroid Prime 2 (The ball-form could be her upB or tilt B), and you've got a character.

I heard someone mention putting in a Gold Chozo or a Space Pirate. I laughed pretty hard. I can see them being in, but the fact that they have no 'proper' name is what probably boots them out.

"This game's winner is...Space Pirate!"

I can't see it.

 

[Milo-]

My point is: Do you actually think he will be able to fight? I mean, can you REALLY imagine him fighting in the game? I can imagine some ways in which it will be able to fight, but those fit better for some kind of boss and not an actual playable character.

And seriously, Imagine a 4 players match using the different samus "Choose a character, Samus, Dark Samus, Zero suit Samus, Samus"... Ridiculous.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I can actually see Ridley fighting, granted not as easily as other characters, but still well enough to make him possible. He'd probably be as big as Bowser, though due to his build a lot lighter too, so I'd guess he'd have quite a good recovery to balance out, and he's generally been quite a powerful and fast character. The fact that Ridley is such an unusual character actually makes him more interesting as a potential character.

The fact that Dark Samus is another Samus is really one of the only things against him/her (does it actually have a gender?), but if that's really a bother, they can just call DS Metroid Prime. Plus with MP3 coming out, DS might have much more moves to draw from.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

I like the idea of Ridley being in the game, but I see him more as a boss character than a playable character. I wouldn't mind if they made him playable I just don't want ridley to be all laggy and awkward like how in my opioin mewtwo was in SSBM. I personaly think Ridley needs to be included in the game somehow.

Dark samus...I would be afraid that dark samus would become another clone and I would be to dissapointed. But I would like it if Dark samus made it if and only if she doesn't become just another clone.

I don't think the space pirates or any of the other ones mentioned will make it due to the fact that there are more deserving characters.

 

[Pit 42]

Dark Samus seems a likely choice, as long as they both don't end up being clones. Either that, or Ridley.

 

[JBM falcon08]

ridley hands down ftw.

 

[Virgilijus]

Ridley, even though he would be much more difficult to animate and build up to his potential, would fit into the Smash world perfectly. He would be a unique blend of heavy, strong, and flying characters.

 

[zuloon]

My point is: Do you actually think he will be able to fight? I mean, can you REALLY imagine him fighting in the game? I can imagine some ways in which it will be able to fight, but those fit better for some kind of boss and not an actual playable character.

And seriously, Imagine a 4 players match using the different samus "Choose a character, Samus, Dark Samus, Zero suit Samus, Samus"... Ridiculous.

Can you imagine Peach, a princess, fighting? Or Captain Falcon, a racer?

 

[BentoBox]

I'd rather have craid than ridley. But in all honesty, I can't see either in SSBB. (Sharing Milo's views about this)

I'd be a lot more interested in playing a Chozo or a space pirate - we need another character with a good variety of projectiles. Enough of these sword based fighters already!s

 

[Navajo7]

dude i would love ridley in SSBB, but unforunatly i doubt it. but if another character was going to be in it , it would be the electric guy from hunters. he is the only character from the game that is planned to be used in another game.....SSBB maybe..

 

[dotdotdot!]

I enjoy the fact that most of this thread has basically ignored the Hunters in favor of the much more popular Ridley and Dark Samus.

Personally, Ridley is the only way to go. He is the one true thorn in Samus' side (Having been in nearly all of the Metroid games, as opposed to Dark Samus' 2 or three games. EDIT: I of course, forget that the SA-X from Fusion is basically the same thing as Dark Samus, through from a different source.) It would be the closest thing to including Ganondorf for Link, or including Bowser for Mario.

 

[Crazy_smasher101]

If one of the other hunters what would it do and personally what would weavel do that stupid half-turrett thing that would get so annoying just like it is in hunters trace would be a good hunter although i dont have a clue what they would do.

 

[LemonManX]

Q: Which of Samus' rivals should be in SSBB?
A: Ridley.

After you watch the SSBM intro you kinda go "Well Ridley looked a fair size there actually..." so I think Ridley should take priority over all others. He is THE rival of Samus, look at his appearances. And yes, the counter point to his size has already been bought up. If any of Samus' rivals get in, it should be Ridley.

Ridley is a much cooler choice the hunters from MP:H.

I also wouldn't mind Dark Samus, her Phazon weapons would be interesting. Thats only if they can avoid it being a clone situation.

 

[Ridley22]

People stop saying that ridley won't get in. Just stop trying to convince people... Just stop.

 

[Solid Smash]

I'd like to see Ridley in, correct me if im wrong...but isn't he Meta Ridley now? His body could easly be smaller for smash.

Some "B" moves ;P
B> Corrosive Breath : A quick Blast of acid that does minimal damage ( 3%)but has a Fix'd knockback, sending a enemy back just a few paces no matter his/her precent. ( This would be useful for a big clunky character like Ridley..it'll be hard to take advantage of what lag he might have)

B^ Orbit : Ridley soars ( Note: Ridley has only 1 jump, and is a fast faller) similar to a PK thunder, his speed is slightley slower than a bunie hood...last like 6 sec? This move cannot do damage, and Ridley will always have a laggy animation opoun landing.

^ Maybe a little OP but didn't want to give him clone moves ><

Bv Shatter: Ridley slams the ground next to him with one hand, 6% Damage very little lag on this animation. ( it's worth noteing that while weak, this move severley weakens shields about 3 of these to break a fresh shield)

Note: My version of Ridley has extreamly weak B moves, His real strenght lies in his A moves and throws, his B moves are the backbone of his arsenal however and can counter many characters.

 

[MiraiGen]

I enjoy the fact that most of this thread has basically ignored the Hunters in favor of the much more popular Ridley and Dark Samus.

Well it just wouldn't make any sense to include the new Hunters. They were thrown in - practically as an afterthought - because Samus has spent entirely too much time killing Metroids and Space Pirates, Ridley, Mother Brain, Kraid, and Metroid Prime/Dark Samus to possibly consider her a "bounty hunter." It doesn't make any sense, and the last time they tried that - Metroid Fusion - it ended up being a space opera (If you don't know what I mean, look up the wikipedia and read the full story for Metroid Fusion. Especially the ending.).

So, they made Hunters because there was far too little of the actual "Bounty hunter" part of Sammie. The other Hunters were recent additions, and don't have nearly as much 'background' as the others.

 

[Crazy_smasher101]

Well it just wouldn't make any sense to include the new Hunters. They were thrown in - practically as an afterthought - because Samus has spent entirely too much time killing Metroids and Space Pirates, Ridley, Mother Brain, Kraid, and Metroid Prime/Dark Samus to possibly consider her a "bounty hunter." It doesn't make any sense, and the last time they tried that - Metroid Fusion - it ended up being a space opera (If you don't know what I mean, look up the wikipedia and read the full story for Metroid Fusion. Especially the ending.).

So, they made Hunters because there was far too little of the actual "Bounty hunter" part of Sammie. The other Hunters were recent additions, and don't have nearly as much 'background' as the others.

i agree with that but what i dont understand is what would all of these hunters dark samus zero suit samus and ridley do and also would ridley's moves hurt alot or just a little we do not know these things unless you work for nintendo so what are all of these kind of arguements gonna do?

 

[MiraiGen]

Its speculation, and its for fun. Why is it people constantly need to question exactly why we're talking about this subject?

 

[McFox]

Ridley, obviously. Beyond Samus, he is THE most single recognizable character from the Metroid series, more recognizable than the Metroids themselves, I'd wager. Everyone knows the big purple dragon.

And to the people who say "But he's too big!", you're stupid. Sorry, but you were going to find out eventually anyway.

Have you played Super Mario Sunshine? Have you seen Bowser in that game? How about New Super Mario Brothers? Bowser was HUGE in those games, and yet somehow, through the magical properties of digital manipulation, they were able to make Bowser playable. That's because (and I'm kind of letting the cat out of the bag on this one, so to speak), NONE OF THESE CHARACTERS ARE REAL. That means that Nintendo can make them huge, they can make them tiny, and they can make them polka-dotted if they feel like it. Ridley is just a bunch of lines of code in a computer, and thus, they can do anything to him that they want to, INCLUDING making him smaller.

As a side-note here, I'll add a resounding "duh."

While the Hunters may have had some cool powers (I wouldn't know), NO ONE from the Metroid universe deserves to be playable more than Ridley.

 

[MiraiGen]

That's because (and I'm kind of letting the cat out of the bag on this one, so to speak), NONE OF THESE CHARACTERS ARE REAL.

...Tha-That's not true! He IS REAL!

*runs away crying*

But, yeah. Which is why you can compare Ridley to the first game - when he was the same size as Samus - to Metroid Prime, when he was (According to DND terms) Gargantuan, or compare it to Zero Mission/Super Metroid when he was just 'Huge', or compare it to Melee's opening cutscene, when he was relatively normal sized again.

Take it or leave it, he's fully flexible.

 

[T-major]

Ridley! if anyone from metriod is going to get in, it's Ridley! I seriously don't know why people can even begin to dought this fact. not only is he needed to represent the Metroid franchise... but he's just awsome! (he's a big purple dragon for pete's sake!) Dark samus can be an alternate Samus costume.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Well it just wouldn't make any sense to include the new Hunters. They were thrown in - practically as an afterthought - because Samus has spent entirely too much time killing Metroids and Space Pirates, Ridley, Mother Brain, Kraid, and Metroid Prime/Dark Samus to possibly consider her a "bounty hunter." It doesn't make any sense, and the last time they tried that - Metroid Fusion - it ended up being a space opera (If you don't know what I mean, look up the wikipedia and read the full story for Metroid Fusion. Especially the ending.).

So, they made Hunters because there was far too little of the actual "Bounty hunter" part of Sammie. The other Hunters were recent additions, and don't have nearly as much 'background' as the others.

Hey. No dissing Fusion. That one is one of my favorites. I enjoy space opera.

You've touched upon one of the main problems with the Hunters. Specifically, absolutely none of them are interesting or even really that important as anything other than setpieces in a Metroid Game that I personally dislike. None of them have any kind of personality outside of species and preferred weapon, and you don't really get to know any of them over the course of the single player game like you should. If you build a game around the idea of these rival bounty hunters fighting the hero for something, and the rivals are merely glorified Minibosses without any real visible stake in the matter, then you have a big problem.

Another problem is that because of their complete lack of personal identity, and because they are even given equal weight in MPH, they are completely inseperable from eachother. Sure you can support "Weavil" or "Stylux" over any other hunter, but at the end of the day nobody really regards them on each of their own terms, and still refer to them collectively as "The Hunters." Because of this, choosing which one to put in is nearely impossible, as none of them are any more important than the other. It would be like trying to choose one of the 7 "Koopalings" from Mario 3.

I suppose it's needless to say that I do not support the Hunters as SSBB characters, though I acnowledge the possibility.

 

[DNA13]

Ridley is the only one i can see being easily original and deserving at the same time

 

[Rhyme]

NO ONE from the Metroid universe deserves to be playable more than Ridley.

However, Dark Samus is an unreasonably close second choice.

True Ridley has more history than Dark Samus, but anyone who has played a Metroid game recently knows that Dark Samus is equally important. The player fought an arena battle with Ridley in Metroid Prime, and yet in Metroid Prime 2, no Ridley. Dark Samus has stolen the spotlight. And sure it shows Ridley in a gameplay video from E3, but who do you hear about when you read a description on any game website? Dark Samus is introduced as your main rival. If Dark Samus is presented as the main villain, then she just might get that spot in the brawl roster.

Dark Samus would be a good projectile user, no sword attached. Whoever asked for fewer sword characters, support DS.

Besides, I see Ridley as being a boss more than a playable character. After all, he was your final boss in all the old Metroid games anyway, right? Dark Samus shows up in Metroid Prime 2, what is it...4 times? Re-occuring boss and rival.

It seems that I am the sole defender of all the unpopular characters on these boards. Ooh well, someone's got to stand up for what they believe in.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Besides, I see Ridley as being a boss more than a playable character. After all, he was your final boss in all the old Metroid games anyway, right? Dark Samus shows up in Metroid Prime 2, what is it...4 times? Re-occuring boss and rival.

It seems that I am the sole defender of all the unpopular characters on these boards. Ooh well, someone's got to stand up for what they believe in.

Ridley has never been a Final Boss, but he's been enough of a recurring character that he should get in just based on Metroid Rep. You said it yourself, he's going to be in MP3. The only other Metroid character who comes close to being in that many games is Samus herself. He's a ton more recurring than Dark Samus will ever be.

I don't see why Ridley can't be both a boss and a Playable character. They could have normal Ridley playable, and include a Giga-Bowser-like transformation into Meta-Ridley if you finish Adventure mode just right.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I can't see Dark Samus being different enough from Samus to warrent anything more than a "Metal-Mario"-esc mid-boss battle. I really don't see the point in overflowing the game with characters that all are named "Samus." We already have a normal Samus and ZS-Samus, do we really need a Dark Samus? If this had come up before ZS-Samus was announced, I could MAYBE see DS in Brawl. But not anymore.

Sorry if I sound a little Nancy-ish, but throwing over what is probably the second most important Metroid character for a character from the new games who is essentially Samus with a coat of phason-based paint seems silly to me.

 

[Rhyme]

Ridley has never been a Final Boss, but he's been enough of a recurring character that he should get in just based on Metroid Rep. You said it yourself, he's going to be in MP3. The only other Metroid character who comes close to being in that many games is Samus herself. He's a ton more recurring than Dark Samus will ever be.

I don't see why Ridley can't be both a boss and a Playable character. They could have normal Ridley playable, and include a Giga-Bowser-like transformation into Meta-Ridley if you finish Adventure mode just right.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I can't see Dark Samus being different enough from Samus to warrent anything more than a "Metal-Mario"-esc mid-boss battle. I really don't see the point in overflowing the game with characters that all are named "Samus." We already have a normal Samus and ZS-Samus, do we really need a Dark Samus? If this had come up before ZS-Samus was announced, I could MAYBE see DS in Brawl. But not anymore.

Sorry if I sound a little Nancy-ish, but throwing over what is probably the second most important Metroid character for a character from the new games who is essentially Samus with a coat of phason-based paint seems silly to me.

DS would not be a clone...it all depends on how creative you are. Check out this Dark Samus Moveset provided by Smashboards user GodzillaMan. I found this no-clone moveset within 2 minutes of searching, I'm sure there are even better ones out there. The point is that you cannot automatically assume that since they both have "Samus" in their name that they must automatically be clones.

I prefer to look at the game in terms of how a character fights, not what his/her name is. As far as I am concerned, Samus and ZSS will fight completely differently, so I don't care if they have the same name. If they are the same person, doesn't matter, as long as they are different fighters. Now you shouldn't just go around adding different versions of a character just because you can or in spite of my argument. I am simply saying that, like the irrelevent size of Ridley, the potential of the character and how popular that character is should be the deciding factors for whether or not the character is included. Where the character came from should never cross your mind. Look at it this way...lets say that you had never played a Metroid game. You watch a video over the internet of some Japanese player controling a female bounty hunter, fighting this dragon-like creature...that's cool. They beat the thing, and are immediately confronted by a manifest of chemical energy in human form...even cooler! Without knowing who the character was, and assuming you can't read Japanese, you would automatically think that both enemy characters were awesome. So, why is it fair to exclude one of them just because of the name and who they are? The concept and the fighter is what matters, and I think Dark Samus dominates in both those categories.

 

[T-major]

why can't they just put Ridley, and DS in Brawl? with a franchise as important to nintendo as Metriod, it deserves at leats 3 characters (I don't count Zamus as an acual character, because she is Samus). I personaly want Ridley in more then anyone (#1 on my top 5 list of wanted first party characters). and he defanatly deserves priority over Dark Samus. in fact I don't want DS in at all. not because it wouldn't be original. because it dosn't deserve to be. DS was in two games (three if you count MP3) as aposed to Ridleys... pretty much all of them except one or two. he's the most recuring main villin of Samus, and needs to be represented as such.

 

[shadenexus18]

I agree, Ridley would be an awesome addition to SSBB & Dark Samus is a great idea too! However, (note: this is a scary thought) what if they don't put either of the two on the game. I mean the people who work at Nintendo aren't the most intelligent people in the world (the name Nintendo Wii is just plain dumb). OK, my point is if Nintendo has any common sense at all & any more brain cells in there skulls, they will add Ridley & or Dark Samus to SSBB.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Personally for me, it goes like this:

1. ridley
2. Weavel
3. dark Samus
4+: Other

 

[Rhyme]

Personally for me, it goes like this:

1. ridley
2. Weavel
3. dark Samus
4+: Other

A hunter over Dark Samus!?! Tisk, tisk, you just made my list.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Hells yeah a hunter over lame old Dark Samus...

Wow, HMBG - that's pretty much my list as well... Ridely was actually my #1 choice for a new SSB character for the longest time - he's like #2 now, so he's still in my Top 3. At any rate, if any other Metroid character gets in after Ridley, I'd like it to be Weavel, cuz Space Pirates rule.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

A hunter over Dark Samus!?! Tisk, tisk, you just made my list.

I like dark Smaus and would like to see him in Brawl, but Weavel is special. Dark samus makes it above all other hunters (yes fanboys, even sylux and noxus)

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I'd prefer ANY of the hunters over Dark Samus... well, except maybe for Kanden and Spire...

 

[dotdotdot!]

DS would not be a clone...it all depends on how creative you are. Check out this Dark Samus Moveset provided by Smashboards user GodzillaMan. I found this no-clone moveset within 2 minutes of searching, I'm sure there are even better ones out there. The point is that you cannot automatically assume that since they both have "Samus" in their name that they must automatically be clones.

I prefer to look at the game in terms of how a character fights, not what his/her name is. As far as I am concerned, Samus and ZSS will fight completely differently, so I don't care if they have the same name. If they are the same person, doesn't matter, as long as they are different fighters. Now you shouldn't just go around adding different versions of a character just because you can or in spite of my argument. I am simply saying that, like the irrelevent size of Ridley, the potential of the character and how popular that character is should be the deciding factors for whether or not the character is included. Where the character came from should never cross your mind. Look at it this way...lets say that you had never played a Metroid game. You watch a video over the internet of some Japanese player controling a female bounty hunter, fighting this dragon-like creature...that's cool. They beat the thing, and are immediately confronted by a manifest of chemical energy in human form...even cooler! Without knowing who the character was, and assuming you can't read Japanese, you would automatically think that both enemy characters were awesome.

Fair enough, she won't be a clone. But what does that Prove? Regardless of how Samus and ZSamus fight, they are still essentially the same character, and the same problem arises from Dark Samus. I mean, at least with ZS, she'll be built differently. regardless of how different she plays, I won't like it, because all three of them are Samuses, just like I don't like the idea of ZS samus. I suppose I have the opposite view from you on this, I don't like DS, It doesn't matter that they fight differently, because they're basically the same.

And for the record, if I saw that video, I would probably choose the Dragon. Sure, energy in the shape of the hero is cool, but it's still in the shape of the hero. I would choose The Bounty hunter first, the Dragon second, and the Dark Hunter third.

So, why is it fair to exclude one of them just because of the name and who they are? The concept and the fighter is what matters, and I think Dark Samus dominates in both those categories.

Because their name and who they are is EVERYTHING! Smash Bros. is a Fanservice game. It is a Fanservice game. It is a Fanservice game. Mario and Link fight for dominance. The most popular series' have the more characters. These video game characters are nothing without their name and who they are. Dark Samus is an entity that is nearly inseperable from normal Samus, right down to her appearance and her method of attack (Arm-cannon-like protrusion), so why choose Dark Samus (which isn't even an original Concept in the context of other Nintendo games (See Zelda, Mario, Kirby, F-Zero) or even the Metroid Series (Metroid Fusion did it first and IMO better)) when you could choose the only other character in Metroidland who has been in almost as many games as Samus herself, all of which including epic boss fights with him.

I'm sorry, but I suppose I just can't let this sort of thing go.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Fair enough, she won't be a clone. But what does that Prove? Regardless of how Samus and ZSamus fight, they are still essentially the same character, and the same problem arises from Dark Samus. I mean, at least with ZS, she'll be built differently. regardless of how different she plays, I won't like it, because all three of them are Samuses, just like I don't like the idea of ZS samus. I suppose I have the opposite view from you on this, I don't like DS, It doesn't matter that they fight differently, because they're basically the same.

And for the record, if I saw that video, I would probably choose the Dragon. Sure, energy in the shape of the hero is cool, but it's still in the shape of the hero. I would choose The Bounty hunter first, the Dragon second, and the Dark Hunter third.



Because their name and who they are is EVERYTHING! Smash Bros. is a Fanservice game. It is a Fanservice game. It is a Fanservice game. Mario and Link fight for dominance. The most popular series' have the more characters. These video game characters are nothing without their name and who they are. Dark Samus is an entity that is nearly inseperable from normal Samus, right down to her appearance and her method of attack (Arm-cannon-like protrusion), so why choose Dark Samus (which isn't even an original Concept in the context of other Nintendo games (See Zelda, Mario, Kirby, F-Zero) or even the Metroid Series (Metroid Fusion did it first and IMO better)) when you could choose the only other character in Metroidland who has been in almost as many games as Samus herself, all of which including epic boss fights with him.

I'm sorry, but I suppose I just can't let this sort of thing go.

Thank you. I've tried to get that point across on several occasions, but unfortunately I lack your eloquence.
But yeah, DS is not a very original character, and there are much better candidates from the Metroid universe, IMO.