Samus's Rivals...Who gets the SSBB spot?

[shadenexus18]

I agree, if they decide to put DS in the game, she won't be as a clone.

 

[Rhyme]

I'm sorry, but I suppose I just can't let this sort of thing go.

Well, you do raise several good points while discrediting some of mine. I still think it would be more suiting for Ridley to be a boss character. Something about the raw power and terror is more bosslike than say, possibly getting kicked around by a small mouse. Dark Samus just seems more plausible as a character.

One thing that I can hope for is that Nintendo will favor middle of the road characters over the extremes. If you pay attention to the NWT, Snake and Wario both move and react surprisingly fast for characters you would have otherwise assumed would be slow. I don't know about all the old Metroid games, but in Prime Meta Ridley, giant mechanical being with indeffinate stamina and unbarable strength was very slow in combat. Would they really put such a slow character in the game? Granted he doesn't have to move slowly, but I would be upset if he wasn't. Also, Ridley might be tough to animate, even for the experts from Nintendo. It's one thing to program him for finite boss battles, but for thousands of unique combinations with his every attack is different. It would save time and money to just go with Dark Samus. Then again, Nintendo has delayed the game so they probably have the time now. It's not like they won't make all that money back from selling the game.

On a side note, I am rallying everyone to go see Happy Feet! Despite its childish appearance, it is deffinately not a kids movie. There is so much humor that only adults would understand. Plus, satire against organized religion. The elder penguins are perfect stereotypes. Go my children, flock to it!

 

[shadenexus18]

I'll have to side with Rhyme on this one.

 

[MiraiGen]

Well, you do raise several good points while discrediting some of mine. I still think it would be more suiting for Ridley to be a boss character. Something about the raw power and terror is more bosslike than say, possibly getting kicked around by a small mouse. Dark Samus just seems more plausible as a character.

Bowser.

For the love of GOD, people, just look at Bowser!

You don't need to be gargantuan to be terrifyingly huge. Ridley would be perfect, because he can be altered constantly.

Just look at original NES Ridley. Sure, he's fugly, but he's the same size as samus.

 

[M3tr01D]

Ridley(or other variations) has been in:

Metroid zero mission
Metroid 1
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 3
Super Metroid
Metroid fusion


I think it would be quit dumb if they didn't put him in now that they've shown zero suit samus in the game, ZSS appeared for about 30 minutes in one game, while ridley was a major boss in all those games but Metroid prime 3, because whether you fight him again after that 25ish minute trailer is unknown.

 

[T-major]

I still say the putting in DS over Ridley would be one of the stupidest things someone could do. it's just compleatly illogical to disregard the most reaccuring main enemy of one of the most important franchises to Nintendo. for a character who is nothing but a cheap rip-off of the main character (concept wise. not in terms of moves), and has only been in one game. I agree that DS could be a very unique character, but so would Ridley. and seeing as Ridley acualy deserves,to get in, he has two things going for him. DS would more then likely be an alternate costume for Samus, but nothing more. no offence to the people who want it in more then Ridley, but to be honest... your just getting your hopes up.

 

[Rhyme]

Ridley(or other variations) has been in:

Metroid zero mission
Metroid 1
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 3
Super Metroid
Metroid fusion


I think it would be quit dumb if they didn't put him in now that they've shown zero suit samus in the game, ZSS appeared for about 30 minutes in one game, while ridley was a major boss in all those games but Metroid prime 3, because whether you fight him again after that 25ish minute trailer is unknown.

Umm...good for him? I would still prefer DS.

Bowser.

For the love of GOD, people, just look at Bowser!

You don't need to be gargantuan to be terrifyingly huge. Ridley would be perfect, because he can be altered constantly.

Just look at original NES Ridley. Sure, he's fugly, but he's the same size as samus.

There is no proof Bowser will be in Brawl, don't use him as your reason. He's Mario's rival, well so was DK. In all fairness, DK came first and is way more popular. Wario even had move animations that Bowser had in the trailer. His apperance isn't garunteed. Plus, that idea is still refuted by my last argument, that Nintendo is favoring middle of the road fighters over the extremes.

I'll have to side with Rhyme on this one.

Someone actually agrees with me for once...not that it matters.

I still say the putting in DS over Ridley would be one of the stupidest things someone could do. it's just compleatly illogical to disregard the most reaccuring main enemy of one of the most important franchises to Nintendo. for a character who is nothing but a cheap rip-off of the main character (concept wise. not in terms of moves), and has only been in one game. I agree that DS could be a very unique character, but so would Ridley. and seeing as Ridley acualy deserves,to get in, he has two things going for him. DS would more then likely be an alternate costume for Samus, but nothing more. no offence to the people who want it in more then Ridley, but to be honest... your just getting your hopes up.

Well, how about we do this...(and this offer goes to dotdotdot as well) It is safe to say that we will not agree with eachother any time soon. You two prefer Ridley and I prefer Dark Samus, so you two get Ridley and I get DS. If my character doesn't make it into the game, I'll plus rep the both of you. If your character doesn't make it, you two plus rep me.

If you don't like the terms, say so and don't be a part of the fun.(Cowers fearfully knowing DS has less of a chance)

 

[dotdotdot!]

You two prefer Ridley and I prefer Dark Samus, so you two get Ridley and I get DS. If my character doesn't make it into the game, I'll plus rep the both of you. If your character doesn't make it, you two plus rep me.

If you don't like the terms, say so and don't be a part of the fun.(Cowers fearfully knowing DS has less of a chance)

You sir have a bet, I'll back off from the thread now, have fun y'all.

 

[Rhyme]

You sir have a bet, I'll back off from the thread now, have fun y'all.

Thank you, I will enjoy the sweet taste of victory for the next...when does brawl come out again? Oh yeah they won't frickin tell us!

 

[T-major]

Well, how about we do this...(and this offer goes to dotdotdot as well) It is safe to say that we will not agree with eachother any time soon. You two prefer Ridley and I prefer Dark Samus, so you two get Ridley and I get DS. If my character doesn't make it into the game, I'll plus rep the both of you. If your character doesn't make it, you two plus rep me.

If you don't like the terms, say so and don't be a part of the fun.(Cowers fearfully knowing DS has less of a chance)

I probably won't remember the bet that long, but why not! you got your self a bet!

..... but what if they both get in? I'm not aposed to the idea of DS being in. It's just Ridley logicaly deserves the spot more. and if I'm not mistaken, Ridley was voted high on Sakurai's poll.

 

[Rhyme]

I probably won't remember the bet that long, but why not! you got your self a bet!

..... but what if they both get in? I'm not aposed to the idea of DS being in. It's just Ridley logicaly deserves the spot more. and if I'm not mistaken, Ridley was voted high on Sakurai's poll.

Yes he was, like 2nd highest or something like that. If they both get in, we all rep eachother for being so right. XD

 

[SAMaine]

Ridley should be in first... then Dark Samus/Metroid Prime... whatever. But both Deserve the spot. Also Zero Suit Samus is the latest incarnation of the Samus that appears when you beat a Metroid game really fast, so she's good.

 

[shadenexus18]

I agree 100 % on dat son!

 

[T-major]

Yes he was, like 2nd highest or something like that. If they both get in, we all rep eachother for being so right. XD

Ridley: "I'm number two!! I'm number two!!!"

and sounds good to me. and even if DS dosn't get in. they would more then likely make it a alternate costume for Samus.

 

[Rhyme]

they would more then likely make it a alternate costume for Samus.

I wouldn't be nearly as happy with just a costume. That is another problem, however. Except for the color difference, DS and Samus do look awefully similar.

 

[MiraiGen]

There is no proof Bowser will be in Brawl, don't use him as your reason. He's Mario's rival, well so was DK. In all fairness, DK came first and is way more popular. Wario even had move animations that Bowser had in the trailer. His apperance isn't garunteed. Plus, that idea is still refuted by my last argument, that Nintendo is favoring middle of the road fighters over the extremes.

That's the dumbest logic I've seen in a long time.

I'm just saying that "He's too big" is a stupid excuse, since Bowser was shrunk down drastically when they put him in Melee. His appearance in Brawl is irrelevent - he was shrunk down accordingly to make him manageable, and they can do the same for Ridley.

And how the hell did DK come into this?

 

[Rhyme]

That's the dumbest logic I've seen in a long time.

I'm just saying that "He's too big" is a stupid excuse, since Bowser was shrunk down drastically when they put him in Melee. His appearance in Brawl is irrelevent - he was shrunk down accordingly to make him manageable, and they can do the same for Ridley.

And how the hell did DK come into this?

Because DK was Mario's origional nemisis, even before Bowser.

How did you interpret that I argued he was too big? I never said that! By appearance, I meant whether or not he would appear, not how he would appear.

 

[Dokuro]

betting on ridley to be in brawl.

I can see him fighting (claw/tail swipe, fireball etc), size isn't an issue. He is also the main villain in most of the Metroid games. Ridley deserves to be in Brawl more than DS.

[and i'm not going to even try to reply to Rhyme's posts. "well bowser isn't confirmed and besides dk is more popular", "ridley is suited to being a boss, look at all the raw power", the stupidness burns my eyes.]

 

[MiraiGen]

Because DK was Mario's origional nemisis, even before Bowser.

That still doesn't justify simply saying Bowser won't be in Brawl therefore his Melee incarnation is utterly irrelevent (Which isn't true, considering I was using him as a comparison).

How did you interpret that I argued he was too big? I never said that! By appearance, I meant whether or not he would appear, not how he would appear.

I never said you did. I was telling YOU that Ridley doesn't have to be gargantuan because Bowser was huge compared to Mario, and now he's been toned down to make him more feasable for Melee. Same thing happened there, and it can be done again. You refuted me by saying...

There is no proof Bowser will be in Brawl, don't use him as your reason. He's Mario's rival, well so was DK. In all fairness, DK came first and is way more popular. Wario even had move animations that Bowser had in the trailer. His apperance isn't garunteed. Plus, that idea is still refuted by my last argument, that Nintendo is favoring middle of the road fighters over the extremes.

...which is just God**** stupid, considering Bowser's appearance in Brawl is completely pointless to debate. Whether or not he's coming back is irrelevent; He was huge in Mario 64, and he was toned down to make him workable in Melee. They can do the same thing to Ridley.

And I don't know why you come to the conclusion of Nintendo favoring "Middle of the road fighters", considering they're more likely to put in any character who is recognizeable under any circumstances (Like, say, I dunno, Bowser, Gannondorf, Mewtwo, Peach, Falco...) and saying that someone is or isn't "Middle of the road" for whatever reason is absurd.

 

[shadenexus18]

I agree wit MiraiGen 110 % on dis one son!

 

[Ice the cat]

Sooo...No one thinks that any of the hunters should be in? Shame on you!
I can see Trace or Kanden fighting. I made a moveset for Trace once (incomplete) I could go fetch it *opens a new tab*

got it. Smaller than i imagined, but hey

A simple punch
A left/right simple kick
A down Bends down and spins leg
A up ???
Smash attack powerful punch
Smash up Punches into the air
Smash down ???

B shoots Power beam
B down Turns into triskeilien (sp) and lunges forward, then turns back into trace
B up triskeilien into the air in a diagonal line (like the way mario move slightly to the left/right
B right/left fires inperielist (sp) and turns invisble for two seconds

 

[shadenexus18]

Trace's Imperialist rules da world!

 

[Deleted member]

Trace's Imperialist rules da world!

Don't talk to me about that. My brother is constantly owning me with that thing. And he's six years younger than me.

Anways, who hijacked this thread? I thought it was about Prime Hunters?

Sylux should defiantely be in this game. I don't know why, but Ridely feels more like a boss to me. I can imagine him smaller, but I'd prefer it if he was an end of game boss for Samus.

 

[metroidmania]

There should definitely be another hunter in this game! Not Ridley, please no, too big, too much.
Anyways, Trace would be killer. I mean, look at him! He's my favorite besides Samus from the Metroid series anyway. The obviously don't have room for them all (six), which is very sad.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Ridley? Sure.
One of the Hunters? Why not?
Dark Samus? Abso-freakin'-lutely not.

All of you DS loving people, listen to me: shut up. No, no! I mean it. Shut up. It doesn't matter if DS was in in newer games. It doesn't matter that it potentially could not be a clone. The fact of the matter is that we already have two Samus' in the game (transformation or not Zero-Suit is still different than normal Samus). And no, I don't give a crap if it's not actually the same person as Samus. The fact of the matter is, if Dark Samus made it in, not only would it be a complete waste of a character slot with yet another iteration of a character that's already been duplicated, but DS would, beyond a shadow of a doubt be a complete clone of Samus. When you look at the history of Smash, any characters with similar physical builds have been clones of each other, when every single one of them could have not been clones. Case in point:

Mario = Luigi
Mario = Dr. Mario
Fox = Falco
Capt. Falcon = Ganondorf
Pikachu = Pichu
Marth = Roy
Link = Young Link.

Need I continue? Post away about how DS could have different movesets and how it could end up a non-clone. At the end of the day, it wouldn't happen and you know it.

 

[MiraiGen]

Ridley? Sure.
One of the Hunters? Why not?
Dark Samus? Abso-freakin'-lutely not.

All of you DS loving people, listen to me: shut up. No, no! I mean it. Shut up. It doesn't matter if DS was in in newer games. It doesn't matter that it potentially could not be a clone. The fact of the matter is that we already have two Samus' in the game (transformation or not Zero-Suit is still different than normal Samus). And no, I don't give a crap if it's not actually the same person as Samus. The fact of the matter is, if Dark Samus made it in, not only would it be a complete waste of a character slot with yet another iteration of a character that's already been duplicated, but DS would, beyond a shadow of a doubt be a complete clone of Samus. When you look at the history of Smash, any characters with similar physical builds have been clones of each other, when every single one of them could have not been clones. Case in point:

Mario = Luigi
Mario = Dr. Mario
Fox = Falco
Capt. Falcon = Ganondorf
Pikachu = Pichu
Marth = Roy
Link = Young Link.

Need I continue? Post away about how DS could have different movesets and how it could end up a non-clone. At the end of the day, it wouldn't happen and you know it.

Hold up a god**** minute. That's completely unfair.

DS LOOKS like Samus, but she spends half of the game floating around, shooiting barrages of missiles, becoming a ball of Phazon energy and charging you, and various other things. Just because they look similar has nothing to do with it. That, and Zero Suit Samus is just the original Samus anyway; there's just certain conditions that make her playable. That, and she fights totally different anyway, so making a correlation between standard and ZSSamus is broken.

And saying Smash has a "history of clones" isn't fair. There's been two games of Smash. The first one had ONE clone, and the second one was completely rushed due to time constraints. Saying that Smash has clones as if it was some sort of second-nature is completely unfair.

 

[HiddenTiger]

DS LOOKS like Samus, but she spends half of the game floating around, shooiting barrages of missiles, becoming a ball of Phazon energy and charging you, and various other things. Just because they look similar has nothing to do with it.

Doesn't matter at all. Smash has never stuck to canonity with the games it draws from. Young Link can't use the Bow or hookshot. Dr. Mario couldn't use any super jumps, sheets, or spin attacks. Do I even need to start on the differences between Ganon and Falcon? Your home game doesn't matter. In Smash, you're free game.

That, and Zero Suit Samus is just the original Samus anyway; there's just certain conditions that make her playable. That, and she fights totally different anyway, so making a correlation between standard and ZSSamus is broken.

Again, that point is irrelevant. If Zelda and Sheik can be at opposite ends of the tier list, despite them being one and the same, than Samus and ZS Samus can, will, and shall henceforth be conisdered two characters. Two Samuses.

And saying Smash has a "history of clones" isn't fair. There's been two games of Smash. The first one had ONE clone, and the second one was completely rushed due to time constraints. Saying that Smash has clones as if it was some sort of second-nature is completely unfair.

I'm not using the history of clones as my point. I'm using the fact that all clones have been built similarly to one another. The fact that Dark Samus is quite literally a pallette swap of normal Samus practically screams "Clone me!!!"

 

[Rhyme]

I'm not using the history of clones as my point. I'm using the fact that all clones have been built similarly to one another. The fact that Dark Samus is quite literally a pallette swap of normal Samus practically screams "Clone me!!!"

The characters that have similar builds didn't have to be similar, they just happened to be. Mario and Luigi deffinately are not clones of eachother, and they have similar builds. Now to argue the other side, assuming your argument is true. If Mario = Luigi, and Dr. Mario = Mario, than Luigi = Dr. Mario. Well Luigi and Dr. Mario are 100% not clones, there goes your argument.

UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, SAMUS WILL REMOVE HER POWER SUIT. That means they are one character slot, hence 1 character. Argue as much as you want about Shiek/Zelda, I don't care because if you look under Data->Misc. Records, it says characters available "25", assuming you have unlocked every character. Count the spaces on the character selection screen, 25! Shiek/Zelda are the same person. Therefore there is only 1 Samus in brawl as of now, so there can certainly be 2.

I didn't bring up Bowser origionally, you did. What I was trying to point out is this: Bowser-Considered Mario's rival, Ridley-Considered Samus' Rival, then notice the fact that Nintendo cannot remove DK from smash because he is to ****ing important. DK is the origional nemesis, not Bowser, and you are saying that DS doesn't deserve a spot because she is the newer nemesis. Well than neither does Bowser. Being newer has nothing to do with the character's inclusion(note IC's and G&W are very old and never had a history beond a few games many years ago).

"ridley is suited to being a boss, look at all the raw power" taken out of context.

I never said that Ridley's size prevented him from being in. Bowser is very big and he got in, moderately reduced in size. But notice Bowser is THE heaviest and one of the biggest? That is all I was saying about Ridley...I don't mind that they would have to shrink him down, but he should be one of the heaviest and biggest.

This is how I came upon my logic of "middle of the road characters"...Sakurai said that HAL would do its best to reduce the glaring differences in the tier list. The reason these differences exist is because some characters were designed more for multiplayer play(ie Roy, Bowser), and some were designed more specifically for 1 v 1(ie Shiek, Fox). If they are going to reduce the differences in the tier list, that means altering the characters specifically for multiplayer and specifically for 1 v 1. Considering this, they will obviously be making more characters that are balanced, rather than specialized. Hence, everyone will be closer to the same abilities, strengths, and weaknesses; Middle of the Road Characters.

 

[LemonManX]

There should definitely be another hunter in this game! Not Ridley, please no, too big, too much.
Anyways, Trace would be killer. I mean, look at him! He's my favorite besides Samus from the Metroid series anyway. The obviously don't have room for them all (six), which is very sad.

Why do people keep saying Ridley is too big? Please, go watch the intro to SSBM. Did Ridley look uber big? No, no he didn't.

Ridley ftw.

 

[Rhyme]

Why do people keep saying Ridley is too big? Please, go watch the intro to SSBM. Did Ridley look uber big? No, no he didn't.

Ridley ftw.

Good point, only Metaridley might be too big. He doesn't have to be, however.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nintendo mentioned much more in-depth story modes. Well maybe the hunters could all be featured in story mode for ZSS and Samus. Just because a character is in the game doesn't necessarily mean you need to be able to play with that character. (Sulks and thinks about how his favorite character DS might end up this way) Dissapointing but true.

 

[LemonManX]

True, Meta-Ridley would be too big, I'd like to see him become like Giga Bowser.

But regular Ridley would work.

As for having the Hunters appear in Adventure mode, that might work... it could be similar to the Legend of Zelda stage in Adventure mode where you fight all of the Link's.

 

[Rhyme]

True, Meta-Ridley would be too big, I'd like to see him become like Giga Bowser.

But regular Ridley would work.

As for having the Hunters appear in Adventure mode, that might work... it could be similar to the Legend of Zelda stage in Adventure mode where you fight all of the Link's.

That is a ton of extra work, though, creating maybe 6 extra opponents that you can't play as...waste of time. It would also be hard to do that for everyone(ie Falcon). Some people just don't have a lot of enemies.

I'm still hoping that they could include DS and Ridley. Metroid is a very big franchise, with new and old favorites, so there is no real reason it can't be represented as such. Besides, I think there has been only 1 person that was completely dead-set against DS. Most people are just like, "Ridley first" or "(Insert Hunter Name Here) first."

Random, but I hate the grammar rule that you have to put the quote at the very end of the sentence, even if you are not quoting the period within.

 

[LemonManX]

Well I never suggested not being able to play as them. I mean in MP:Hunters they only appeared to interrupt you anyway. So that could be reflected in an adventure mode level.

In terms of priority I'd list them as such:
1. Ridley
2. Dark Samus
3. Some of the Hunters

Thats just me though, I'd like to see if they could make Dark Samus and her phazon powers different... it'd be interesting.

 

[Rhyme]

Well I never suggested not being able to play as them. I mean in MP:Hunters they only appeared to interrupt you anyway. So that could be reflected in an adventure mode level.

In terms of priority I'd list them as such:
1. Ridley
2. Dark Samus
3. Some of the Hunters

Thats just me though, I'd like to see if they could make Dark Samus and her phazon powers different... it'd be interesting.

Maybe it's just me, but this is exactly the problem. You can't add 6 hunters as playable characters, that's unfair and impracticle. However, it would mean unneccessary work if they were to put them there just to mess with the player.

 

[dotdotdot!]

UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, SAMUS WILL REMOVE HER POWER SUIT. That means they are one character slot, hence 1 character.

Not to bring another argument into this thread or anything, but could "Under Certain conditions etc. etc." Be an oblique hint at how to unlock ZSsamus, or perhaps just a reference to how Samus would remove her suit in her all of her games under certain conditions?

F'rinstance, it could be referring to how Samus removed her suit in Zero Mission under a certain condition. It could have nothing to do with Anything Smash Related, except as an explaination/rationalization of why ZSamus was chosen.

"Not a Pure Character choice" could, similarly, mean that since there is already a "Samus" character, a separate character by the name of "Zero Suit Samus" wouldn't be a "New" character in the same way as Snake, or Metaknight.

There's really no use taking vague statements and making more of them than you have to. From all we've seen, ZSamus seems to be presented as her own character, independant from the suited version of herself.

 

[Rhyme]

There's really no use taking vague statements and making more of them than you have to. From all we've seen, ZSamus seems to be presented as her own character, independant from the suited version of herself.

Very true, I could understand how you interpreted that statement. I would actually prefer having them be 2 seperate characters, that's just not how I had seen that statement when I first read it. And since everyone else but you seemed to have gone along with it being a Shiek/Zelda type thing, the thought it could mean anything but the common translation hadn't even crossed my mind.

I would tend to think that it was a smash related statement, but who is to say that is the correct interpretation?

 

[<π]

Well it just wouldn't make any sense to include the new Hunters. They were thrown in - practically as an afterthought - because Samus has spent entirely too much time killing Metroids and Space Pirates, Ridley, Mother Brain, Kraid, and Metroid Prime/Dark Samus to possibly consider her a "bounty hunter." It doesn't make any sense, and the last time they tried that - Metroid Fusion - it ended up being a space opera (If you don't know what I mean, look up the wikipedia and read the full story for Metroid Fusion. Especially the ending.).

So, they made Hunters because there was far too little of the actual "Bounty hunter" part of Sammie. The other Hunters were recent additions, and don't have nearly as much 'background' as the others.

90% of what you mentioned were bounties she was doing. I hate to quote old posts but this stuck out.

MP:H was cool and all, but none of the characters held as much weight as ridley. Him(?) and goroh were the only two non-playable villians in the melee opening as well might I add, so if I had to put stock in any new chars it'd be them.

 

[HiddenTiger]

The characters that have similar builds didn't have to be similar, they just happened to be. Mario and Luigi deffinately are not clones of eachother, and they have similar builds. Now to argue the other side, assuming your argument is true. If Mario = Luigi, and Dr. Mario = Mario, than Luigi = Dr. Mario. Well Luigi and Dr. Mario are 100% not clones, there goes your argument.

Miniscule stat differences and one or two different A moves does not mean they are nothing alike. All three have the Super Jump Punch, Tornado move, most of the A attacks, and identical throws. And you still miss my entire point. The fact of the matter, Dark Samus is exactly the same as Samus except for the color. Source matter from games means next to nothing in smash. Dark Samus = Samus colored darkly.

UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, SAMUS WILL REMOVE HER POWER SUIT. That means they are one character slot, hence 1 character. Argue as much as you want about Shiek/Zelda, I don't care because if you look under Data->Misc. Records, it says characters available "25", assuming you have unlocked every character. Count the spaces on the character selection screen, 25! Shiek/Zelda are the same person. Therefore there is only 1 Samus in brawl as of now, so there can certainly be 2.

Oh for God's sake, that's the worst argument yet. Yes, Sheik is a separate character from Zelda. If you don't beleive me, go ahead and open up your manual. Each of them has their own section when it lists the starting characters. Zelda and Sheik are completely separate characters that share a character slot, attached by a single move. So unless you would like to try and make up an argument that Zero Suit Samus is actually just a costume for Samus with no gameplay changes, there are two characters in Smash bearing the name Samus no matter how much you want to try and change the subject to Zelda.

 

[Rhyme]

Miniscule stat differences and one or two different A moves does not mean they are nothing alike. All three have the Super Jump Punch, Tornado move, most of the A attacks, and identical throws. And you still miss my entire point. The fact of the matter, Dark Samus is exactly the same as Samus except for the color. Source matter from games means next to nothing in smash. Dark Samus = Samus colored darkly.

Hardly miniscule if you consider the fact that no one plays both Mario and Luigi competitively. They are in fact so different that no one plays both of them well. When you look at Luigi compared to Mario, these are the only attacks where the two share knockback and direction: Dthrow, Fthrow, tap A but not A,A,A, Bair. What is that I count...4 moves?!? Hardly a clone. They have similar animations because it is more cost efficient to do so, they don't need to have similar animations. To me, your argument of similar build equals similar character is like saying that because Pikachu and Wolf Link would both be quadripedal, that you can't have them both in the game because they would be clones of eachother. Sure they don't have to be, but you would say they would have to be, assuming you still support your previous argument.

Oh for God's sake, that's the worst argument yet. Yes, Sheik is a separate character from Zelda. If you don't beleive me, go ahead and open up your manual. Each of them has their own section when it lists the starting characters. Zelda and Sheik are completely separate characters that share a character slot, attached by a single move. So unless you would like to try and make up an argument that Zero Suit Samus is actually just a costume for Samus with no gameplay changes, there are two characters in Smash bearing the name Samus no matter how much you want to try and change the subject to Zelda.

Well maybe it's not the best argument, but it tears me up inside when people use a character's name to justify their dislike for a character. The character's name doesn't automatically decide how the character must perform. Sure Dark Samus has the same build, it would be illogical if she didn't seing how she came from Samus. But have you ever played Metroid Prime 2? I guess not because then we wouldn't be having this argument now would we? Dark Samus uses a total of 2 moves that Samus uses throughout the entire game, so how does that make them similar? If Shiek and Zelda can be the same character and yet be counted as 2 completely seperate fighters and not be clones, than so can DS and Samus. And quite literally, all Zelda does is change her costume...at least DS doesn't change back and forth between forms, she was mutated.

I wasn't changing the subject, just pointing out the fact that a similar situation exists and no one gives a ****, but for some reason when an additional situation is mentioned, like this one with DS, people go nuclear.

 

[MiraiGen]

Almost forgot about this.

I didn't bring up Bowser origionally, you did. What I was trying to point out is this: Bowser-Considered Mario's rival, Ridley-Considered Samus' Rival, then notice the fact that Nintendo cannot remove DK from smash because he is to ****ing important. DK is the origional nemesis, not Bowser, and you are saying that DS doesn't deserve a spot because she is the newer nemesis. Well than neither does Bowser. Being newer has nothing to do with the character's inclusion(note IC's and G&W are very old and never had a history beond a few games many years ago).

Now you're just confusing me. Bowser is my point because he was shrunk down to make him manageable for Melee, countering the very fact that some people say Ridley is too big. For example...

For the love of GOD, people, just look at Bowser!

You don't need to be gargantuan to be terrifyingly huge. Ridley would be perfect, because he can be altered constantly.

Just look at original NES Ridley. Sure, he's fugly, but he's the same size as samus.

And YOU said...

There is no proof Bowser will be in Brawl, don't use him as your reason. He's Mario's rival, well so was DK. In all fairness, DK came first and is way more popular. Wario even had move animations that Bowser had in the trailer. His apperance isn't garunteed. Plus, that idea is still refuted by my last argument, that Nintendo is favoring middle of the road fighters over the extremes.

See? Right ****ing there you completely ignored what I was saying, from the very beginning, and just started talking about "Original villains" and "Not garunteed appearances.

And here...

Why do people keep saying Ridley is too big? Please, go watch the intro to SSBM. Did Ridley look uber big? No, no he didn't.

Ridley ftw.

Good point, only Metaridley might be too big. He doesn't have to be, however.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nintendo mentioned much more in-depth story modes. Well maybe the hunters could all be featured in story mode for ZSS and Samus. Just because a character is in the game doesn't necessarily mean you need to be able to play with that character. (Sulks and thinks about how his favorite character DS might end up this way) Dissapointing but true.

And here you concede his point which was one of my points only a few minutes ago. I'm only arguing that Ridley can be shrunk down to make him more manageable, and completely deserves the spot.

Until you start paying attention to what I'm saying and actually responding to it instead of arguing with some imaginary person, I'm done with you.

Doesn't matter at all. Smash has never stuck to canonity with the games it draws from. Young Link can't use the Bow or hookshot. Dr. Mario couldn't use any super jumps, sheets, or spin attacks. Do I even need to start on the differences between Ganon and Falcon? Your home game doesn't matter. In Smash, you're free game.

See, that's not fair. The clones are your example to show that Dark Samus would just inevitably become a clone, and yet the very clones you're showing were obviously and blatantly shoved in due to time constraints. That's just not fair, because everyone knows just how much Melee was rushed.

Besides; I was only saying that, given what she's doing (and that there's not an absurd deadline to meet) Dark Samus can have a terrific movelist that's completely separate from Samus. Don't get me wrong - I see where you're coming from. Dark Samus is Samus with black and neon blue, and she could be cloned terribly easy. I don't think they'll even do clones this time around, though, so I have to disagree.