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Official Samus

Serris

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I think I overreacted about her lack of combo options. I just wasn't following up as intuitively as I could have. I've discovered an interesting property of her f-air, too. It looks like each hit of the f-air prior to the final hit generates diagonal knockback in a downward direction, so if you land cancel it on the second hit and your opponent's off the edge, it acts like a pseudo-spike at higher percentages.
 
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Mad Zephyr XXVII

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Honestly, after playing Samus for awhile, she still remains one of my favourite character in the game and will be my main. It's unfortunate that her Missile cancel is gone, but you can easily make it up for it. Her Z-air seems to cause a double hit if done correctly, her neutral air is much better and up air is the same as in Brawl. I can pull out the Up Air into Up Tilt easily. Don't get me started with her buffs when it comes to close range combat. I love it.

One thing I have noticed is that her Forward Air has a bit more lag when she lands, so using it as you get back into the stage after grabbing the ledge is a bit risky. Forward tilt has some recovery animations... her Charge Shot is more powerful and is shot much faster than in Brawl. Her Screw Attack can actually kill at high % and that's a lovely addition.
 

Serris

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I have found one critical flaw with her that's shared with her Brawl counterpart. The first hit of her jab has little to no hit stun, so you can actually be punished for hitting someone with it before you can even connect the second hit at low percents.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Samus feels incredibly solid to me, she was probably the easiest character for me to pick up again as it feels like she's only been buffed from her Brawl counterpart, granted I never adapted to the Z-Air and Missile-Cancelling spam playstyle. The only thing that's a bit whack is her new N-Air, I did prefer her old one as I feel like it had more uses, but that's a minor thing compared to how smooth I feel she plays otherwise. She's not one of the best characters, but certainly not bad either, so I'm perfectly fine with her in this game.
 
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Silver Forte

Smash Rookie
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Sep 24, 2014
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23
Samus feels real good from what I've played so far. She actually has a good ko move with f smash now, and her up close game is a lot better. Missles feel a bit bleh, but the charge shot itself actually feels a bit stronger than the brawl one, and screw attack is godly now.
 

LIQUID12A

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I've been using Samus alot in Glory mode and she feels a lot better than I remember. Her d-air and down tilt are perfect killing tools, the latter useful for small combos with her f-air.
 

n00b

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Hi guys, it's been a while. Just wanted to share my impressions with Samus:

She can't play up to her normal mixup strengths as she did in Brawl: her lack of missile cancel makes zair, dash grab, pivot grab, and dash attack followups much less safe. In fact, in Brawl, when recovering from high percents I'd often throw out two homing missiles to cover me. Now, they're just too slow and punishable that most characters can dash up and start immediate pressure. Samus doesn't seem to have much of an answer to rolling and intense ground pressure. In Brawl, I would punish rolls with SH dair, but because of the way dair needs a sweetspot and travels much faster, it isn't as good of a punish.

I've found movement with Samus to be better in this game because she can still walk to space tilts, but her dash is good (dash + shield, dash + backwards jump etc) now that tripping is removed. Dashing, shielding, and pivot f-tilts are really good for her now.

On move changes: Uair was always good, now it's better. Fair is also better, bair is about the same if not better. Dair is worse for the reasons mentioned, but even sourspotted, it causes a knockback angle that allows for strong off-stage pressure/check scenarios. Z-air has similar utility, but is harder to spam now that Samus appears to move/fall faster, and air dodging isn't as free in this game. Its tipper doesn't do insane knockback, but it's still a good spacing tool and gimps well. Many of you seem to be complaining about n-air. I was disappointed at first, but I think it's a good move. It acts like a fair that we wish she had. I found most success with it by SHing backwards (I think this is huge, SH backwards then DI forwards out of a dash makes her smaller, spaces nair better, or can be faded away into z-air, or left empty. It's better for avoiding visually telegraphing your approach) and using n-air as a punish and less as offensive pressure (it's easy to grab on block).

My favorite uses for nair though, are just running off stage and throwing one out. It's sort of like Sheik's fair, marth's fair, etc, but not as good.. The second hit of it can also help gimp if people preemptively airdodge. If you save it for situations like this way off stage, it has enough knockback to score kills. I think I have more kills with run-off nair than I do dair.

Her jab is really bad, at least versus grounded opponents, and those with quicker jab combos. At high percents, the initial jab doesn't combo into the second hit, so I think you're better off using ftilt in almost all scenarios. At best I use it as a poke just to sort of frame trap when in shield. It also can't be crouch canceled into multiple jabs, like you could in Brawl after a dash attack at the ledge to space for the run off dair.

Dtilt is good just for starting combos, but I don't find it to be a reliable kill move anymore. Speaking of which, has anyone put in the work to test what moves KO at what percents/scenarios? Like in Brawl, 140% was the magic number for dtilt for most characters. I notice I end up racking up close to 200% before getting a kill with Samus, if not a gimp or spike.

Anyway, hope you're all doing well with her.
 

Shog

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I used Charizard, failed a lot in For Glory (12% winning rate), picked up my gurl Samus and I am back at 70%.

People online underestimate 4 things because it is "only" Samus:Grab Range, Up Air, Up B and her recovery. The combination of Wall Jump Up B and the Tether recovery(which DOESN'T put you in helpless, and because of its range it is pretty neat!!)

The only For Glory enemy I can never beat is Little Mac, simply because I don't know how to punish F Tilit and his Rolling(Shield Roll or however it is called). My only way of winning is grabbing him and throwing him away, but the good player abuses a lot of dodging, his roll and no Smash spam against Samus. Any ideas?
 

relaxedexcorcist

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I've been playing her and liking her more as I continue to play more. I like how she actually has kill power again. Bair kills feel so good. Dthrow -> usmash/uair chain seems to work for me pretty well. Also her grab feels like, safer, and faster. Obviously not safe but I don't feel like I'll instantly die if I miss it.

The only For Glory enemy I can never beat is Little Mac, simply because I don't know how to punish F Tilit and his Rolling(Shield Roll or however it is called). My only way of winning is grabbing him and throwing him away, but the good player abuses a lot of dodging, his roll and no Smash spam against Samus. Any ideas?
I trouble with him too, especially as Samus. He's way too fast and his attacks seem to have a lot of disjoint on his attacks. Best bet is probably try to get him into the air (better yet off stage, maybe camping near the ledge an just throw him backwards) and maybe read the roll and dash attack and then keep him in the air as long as possible and punish the landing.
 

seamus92

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I'm really enjoying this iteration of Samus, her nair is hard to figure out at first with its timing but what I do like (that @ n00b n00b has already stated) is running off stage when your opponent is trying to come back and hitting them with her nair. Most characters that don't have an amazing recovery either get ko'd or gimped. I've also noticed that even if you don't sweetspot her dair, successfully hitting someone with the sourspot can still kill them.
Also does anyone have any advice for the Megaman matchup?
 

Serris

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I really hope they patch her jab being unsafe on hit at low percentages. Given that virtually everyone else can at least combo into the second hit of their jab, this seems like a glaring oversight.

Oh, and for anyone having trouble with Little Mac, treat him like a bull. Bait him around the stage and pivot grab to stuff him.
 
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IsmaR

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Bull nothing. Camp the ledge. Grab, grab, and more grab. Charge/fire projectiles the moment they get too scared to approach you.

Oh and don't get hit. That's kind of crucial. Given that most approach with either Dash attack or Side B, it should become second nature to shieldgrab.
 

n00b

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I really hope they patch her jab being unsafe on hit at low percentages.
The first hit doesn't even combo into the second at very high percentages. I've found it to be most successful as anti-air in a percentage range that doesn't even kill, or somewhat delayed as a frametrap to punish spotdodge. Ideally the first hit causes a set stun and knockback to always combo into jab 2, especially now that it can't be crouch canceled to safety. And it'd give Samus yet another kill option setup.

Oh and don't get hit.
lol ok Isai

(nice to see some familiar names, guys!)
 

Kofu

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So I was playing a few matches yesterday in For Glory as Seamus and I discovered something.

Her UTilt has the same weird property where it spikes grounded opponents but not aerial ones. And, like other times you spike a grounded target in this game, they can tech the hit immediately. It was probably a fluke when it happened to me, but it's something to watch out for.
 

n00b

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Right — I think in past iterations it would cause the ground bounce a la spiking a grounded opponent, but without the actual green "spark" allowing a tech. While we're talking about Utilt, does anyone know if it can be used to punish a ledgejump? It seems most if not all characters can jump just slightly over its hitbox and retain invincibility. Managed to pull it off, so I think the spacing and timing is very strict but it works.
 
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pinkdeaf1

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I'm really enjoying this iteration of Samus, her nair is hard to figure out at first with its timing but what I do like (that @ n00b n00b has already stated) is running off stage when your opponent is trying to come back and hitting them with her nair. Most characters that don't have an amazing recovery either get ko'd or gimped. I've also noticed that even if you don't sweetspot her dair, successfully hitting someone with the sourspot can still kill them.
Also does anyone have any advice for the Megaman matchup?
Well... Megaman is very elusive. He moves pretty fast in the air and has amazing aerials to boot. Plus, he spams projectiles faster than Samus (alternating his neutral-B and side-B). One of mega man's weaknesses is the high lag on his kill moves - up tilt and d-smash specifically. These are slow to recover from so do capitalize when possible, but good megamans won't throw these out so liberally. This is just one thing to watch out for.

When mega man fires grounded pellets, I find that Samus' short hop goes right over them and can punish with a dair if they decide to commit to their pellets. But megaman can simply short hop and fire a pellet to stump this or even full hop away and fire pellets or jump in and fair or dair. But, if they just fired their pellets, there will be lag before they can attack so go in. I find that with megaman, you just have to force your way in if they fire pellets. Aerially is obviously the best way.

Megaman has no answer to charged shot though. A landing megaman can do nothing to avoid it, unless they bait one and up-B the heck out of there, but they will have to have amazing reflexes, but if you bait that, then megaman truly has no more options but to go to ledge or attack you, so you end up winning out in the end, I suppose.

I like to full hop homing missile since this lets us avoid his projectile spam and retaliate with a slow, moving hitbox. Then the megaman has to jump away, snipe the missile, or shield. Having two or more homing missiles out helps force them to run or shield, and then we grab if they shield. If megaman runs, then tough luck. We push them to the ledge and charge our charge shot.

I'm not sure what else to add now.

Did we play online at one point? My 3DS ID is Lawerno online by the way. I use the pink Samus and I never shield.

Dtilt is good just for starting combos, but I don't find it to be a reliable kill move anymore. Speaking of which, has anyone put in the work to test what moves KO at what percents/scenarios? Like in Brawl, 140% was the magic number for dtilt for most characters. I notice I end up racking up close to 200% before getting a kill with Samus, if not a gimp or spike.

Anyway, hope you're all doing well with her.
Have you tried killing them with up-B near the ceiling? Up-B is a kill move now and up-air can set up up-B kills.

I'm doing really well with her, thank you.
 
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n00b

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Have you tried killing them with up-B near the ceiling? Up-B is a kill move now and up-air can set up up-B kills.

I'm doing really well with her, thank you.
I just feel like Up B is way too risky, especially on For Glory mode when everything is FD. If I don't connect I'm a sitting duck. So far I've had most success with charge shot as a punish, and off-stage shenanigans. Glad to hear you're doing well. Keep it up!
 

XxBlazingSpeedxX

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I'm having extreme trouble against fast characters that pressure you such as Fox and Sonic. Not really Little Mac cause he's pathetic near the ledge. Any suggestions?
 

n00b

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What habits do you find yourself falling into when under pressure? For example, if you're in shield and someone like Greninja, Sheik, Sonic, Fox etc are behind you — what do you usually do? I'd say Samus suffers within F-tilt range so I try to literally run away in that situation, throwing in pivot grabs, pivot ftilts, and backwards short hops. For someone like Sonic, whose moves are really close-range and often actually home in on you/end up above you, Up B OOS is a fantastic punish.
 

XxBlazingSpeedxX

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Okay I don't know why I didn't think to pivot grab them. That slows them down from pressuring a ton. That solved that problem! Thank you! And I've been loving the up B OOS!
 

Hapajin

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I haven't managed to play Samus yet, is her F-tilt pretty decent in Smash4?
 

n00b

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I haven't managed to play Samus yet, is her F-tilt pretty decent in Smash4?
One of her best tools, can be done out of dash (pivot ftilt) without needing to shield, can be angled for smaller opponents or off edge targets.
 

option.iv

Smash Cadet
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Been playing more Samus, and I must be playing her all wrong. Whenever I get launched, I'm at the mercy of fast characters. Nothing beats anything from the ground or opponent's uairs. I feel she gets owned by reflect characters hard. You have to gamble getting reflected, or short hopping and getting what, a zair that does like 3 damage. You can go for grab too, but that doesn't lead to much damage either. Was also getting out projectile spammed by Toon Link. All he has to do is throw boomerang downward and it keeps Samus out.

Couple characters I'm having trouble against are Palutena, Ness, Fox, and anyone who either has reflect or is really fast. I'm spending most of my matches keeping others out, because honestly, rushing down isn't her forte. I'm starting to agree with the Japanese tier list putting her at E. Though I personally wouldn't put her that low as she obviously has better tools than other chars in the same tier.

Also, jab x jab needs to be fixed. People mashing hard enough can get a hit between them and punish you for using it.

Can someone please prove me wrong and show how Samus should be played?
 

n00b

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When you get launched, do not get greedy and go for air-to-ground or air-to-air. Samus has weak options to cover what's beneath her. Do your best to avoid followups using normal DI, bombs, and airdodges, and try to get to a ledge or horizontally far from your opponent. You should try to reset to neutral game and work at a range that's comfortable to you, instead of playing into your opponent's game. She works best when you control the space, but as you've encountered, certain matchups don't always allow this…

Which is why you have difficulty with reflect and quick offensive/up close pressure opponents. To be fair, so do I. Against people with reflect, use that to your advantage. Have a full charge shot ready, as the threat of having one is enough to bait your opponents into reflecting. Create situations that make it appear as if you would shoot projectiles, and punish reflect accordingly. You say you "only" get a zair or a throw, but for Samus, every hit counts, and having this kind of control is frustrating and demoralizing to your opponent. Every time you land a hit or mixup it's a success, IMO. Besides, zair can lead to ftilt, throw can lead to many followups. If you can land those, capitalize as much as possible. It's better than eating damage from your own projectiles.

As for fast characters: they expect you to try to space and camp, and will rush you down and shut down missiles/zair etc accordingly. My response in these matchups is just to rush them down and keep horizontal control at ground/short hop level. Dash attack, dash grab, pivot grab, tilts, dsmash, fsmash, and punishing shield pressure with Up B OOS give me mild success.

I personally have difficulty with Ness, Sheik, Greninja, ZSS, and sometimes Robin, but I'll try to get some replay footage for you during the week as I practice more. I hope this helped at least.
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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Been playing more Samus, and I must be playing her all wrong. Whenever I get launched, I'm at the mercy of fast characters. Nothing beats anything from the ground or opponent's uairs. I feel she gets owned by reflect characters hard. You have to gamble getting reflected, or short hopping and getting what, a zair that does like 3 damage. You can go for grab too, but that doesn't lead to much damage either. Was also getting out projectile spammed by Toon Link. All he has to do is throw boomerang downward and it keeps Samus out.

Couple characters I'm having trouble against are Palutena, Ness, Fox, and anyone who either has reflect or is really fast. I'm spending most of my matches keeping others out, because honestly, rushing down isn't her forte. I'm starting to agree with the Japanese tier list putting her at E. Though I personally wouldn't put her that low as she obviously has better tools than other chars in the same tier.

Also, jab x jab needs to be fixed. People mashing hard enough can get a hit between them and punish you for using it.

Can someone please prove me wrong and show how Samus should be played?
The fast characters tend to rush you down, that's actually good because you don't have to approach to do your combos.
D-Tilt works wonders if you manage to space it properly since you can easily combo into F-Air.
Grabbing is risky, but more often than not, Down Throw leads to any of your aerial combos.

When you get launched, you can airdodge a bit, D-Air if someone gets offstage, or more likely drop bombs like a madman. Bombs give you enough time to reset the momentum of the match and bomb jumps mess up your landing time, so they can't punish that either.

I'm pretty sure Ness can't absorb missiles and most reflecting characters don't actually reflect that much unless you're spamming projectiles. Save your Charge Beam for when you need it or can combo into it safely to give them pressure and abuse your missiles.

Jab is bad. If they get in jab range use your OOS options, dodge, roll, anything, just don't jab combo. One jab or nothing. Unless you're doing frame traps.
 

The Seventh One

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Oct 6, 2014
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n00b, I appreciate that you are attempting to build on this character. About the "Wow what a ****ty character thread" I wish Barbie rationally explained why he felt that way about Samus. I can only assume he is hating on her because she isn't Project M? I never played the game yet(waiting for the Wii-U version) so I can't form an opinion yet but I am glad to see you have returned! I feel I have a little bit of hope restored in my favorite character from my favorite series.
 

n00b

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Thanks so much for the kind words! What makes Smash even more fun to me is the challenge of proving people wrong and playing the characters I like. I hope we can all work together to come up with strategies and tech to make winning with Samus easier this time around.

I still don't think Samus is a good character — and a lot of mechanics changes make her feel even worse than say, vanilla Brawl. It's a give and take that the net result is she's just "different," I am definitely not playing her like I do in Melee, and I'm not playing her like I do in Brawl. I haven't played PM and know nothing about it so I can't comment there. But Samus has decent offstage game, some good combos and ranged threats…
But if I had to guess why Barbie thought she's a bad character, I think it's because she doesn't have an amazing up close game, grab game, dash attack, vertical aerial options, broken recovery, aerial range, specials, roll, damage or kill moves.. LOL..
 

The Seventh One

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But if I had to guess why Barbie thought she's a bad character, I think it's because she doesn't have an amazing up close game, grab game, dash attack, vertical aerial options, broken recovery, aerial range, specials, roll, damage or kill moves.. LOL..
;_;
 

option.iv

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Thanks for the tips guys, but I really feel like I'm working harder than any other character just trying to win with Samus. And I don't consider myself greedy going for dairs against uptilts/smashes. I usually just bomb and change trajectory. Problem is the bombs don't explode on contact anymore, so people aren't scared of them. Also, Samus is so slow, a person who knows what they're doing can react easily and correct their point of attack and continue to chase your fall. I mean, I have no problem against those autopilot pursuers. One bomb drop is more than enough to evade them. More often than not, the safest place when I get launched is the edge.

Also, zair must've been nerfed along the way because I find it OK. It's definitely her best air move, but consistently sweetspotting it while trying to run away and space is proving difficult, especially against those YOLO rushing characters. If they get under your zair, which is super likely since they're so short while dashing, you're ****ed.

Also, Ness is still a problem, even if he can't absorb missles, he has fsmash (bat).

Even with zair, I have trouble attacking the down forward space. None of her airs are well suited for that space.

Almost all her moves I feel, other characters do them better.

What made Samus godlike in previous iterations are now gone. No missile canceling, no sex kick, no crouch canceling, and just overall system nerfs that further nerf Samus' recovery and evasion.
 
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n00b

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Thanks for the tips guys, but I really feel like I'm working harder than any other character just trying to win with Samus.

Almost all her moves I feel, other characters do them better.
I think this is an unfortunate truth, but I mean.. as Samus mains.. I thought we have grown to accept this by now lol.. That makes winning much more satisfying to me though, knowing I worked harder to outplay.
 

option.iv

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I dunno about that train of thought. A win from hard work is the same as a win from taking the easy route.

When less clothes makes you more powerful, I don't know what to believe anymore.
 

relaxedexcorcist

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I didn't know jab was punishable because it never happened to me until I read that it was here. Now I get smacked for jabbing every time I jab now ;_;

Have you guys been firing missiles while airborne at all? Typically I've just been firing them on or very close to ground as a leftover habit from past games, and I've been doing pretty well with her (against randoms), but I find I never really bother firing missiles while air now unless I'm recovering from off stage.
 

n00b

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^ This is one of the first habits I learned to break the hard way, without cancels you are a sitting duck to aggro ground pressure as you land. Like you, I just fire mostly off stage to give me some breathing room to grab ledge.
 

Hapajin

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Have you guys found applicable uses for U-tilt? It looked pretty effective when I was watching some wii-U footage of Samus, but lately, I have not seen anyone using it in 3DS footage I've been watching.
 

Usernameshane

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Guys, do you know that feeling you get when you think youre imroving but as soon as you test your skills you get destroyed? That's the feeling I get when I play for glory. It

I'm 0-35 in matches as Samus, I am unbelievably bad at this game but I really want to learn how to be good at one of my favorite childhood characters. People keep telling my to play ZSS but power suit samus holds a special place in my heart from when I played the Metroid games as a child.

My question to you guys is, how do I effectively get good at playing Samus and what should I aim to do if I want to rack up damage? And would someone be willing to play a few matches with me so I can see how I should be playing her?
 

Jaedrik

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I be on for glory like
guuuuurl
Spamus givin' me a 83% win rate
 
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