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Official Samus

DerpaDoo

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Punish rolls with Charge shots. Its super easy regardless of where they roll because of charge's speed. Also landing lag can be punished with timed neutral b's. For opponents advancing by dash, an uncharged neutral b can stop them in their tracks and for little mac's who abuse dash attack is gold. From there they will try to roll in or use aerials.

Punish aerials with shield grab, up-b, f-air, or my personal favorite, utilt. For rolls, d-tilt if you can read the opponent rolling right in front of you, or dsmash, reverse dtilt, reverse ftilt, or if they immediately do a laggy attack, punish with a shffl bair, jumping out of range then landing a well spaced attack to avoid punishment.

Also, I found approaching with a fastfall u-air to dtilt on an unsuspecting victim is a good way to mix up an approach. It usually just connects once, but the lagless land allows you to go into whatever else you want.

Anti-juggling is easy as fastfall airdodge to u-air, second jump u-air, second jump bair/nair, up-b. I usually don't do up-b because they can easily avoid it, but fastfalling airdodges and fast falling u-air is too good.
 

GdspdUblkprzdnt

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Punish rolls with Charge shots. Its super easy regardless of where they roll because of charge's speed. Also landing lag can be punished with timed neutral b's. For opponents advancing by dash, an uncharged neutral b can stop them in their tracks and for little mac's who abuse dash attack is gold. From there they will try to roll in or use aerials.

Punish aerials with shield grab, up-b, f-air, or my personal favorite, utilt. For rolls, d-tilt if you can read the opponent rolling right in front of you, or dsmash, reverse dtilt, reverse ftilt, or if they immediately do a laggy attack, punish with a shffl bair, jumping out of range then landing a well spaced attack to avoid punishment.

Also, I found approaching with a fastfall u-air to dtilt on an unsuspecting victim is a good way to mix up an approach. It usually just connects once, but the lagless land allows you to go into whatever else you want.

Anti-juggling is easy as fastfall airdodge to u-air, second jump u-air, second jump bair/nair, up-b. I usually don't do up-b because they can easily avoid it, but fastfalling airdodges and fast falling u-air is too good.
I cam attest to how important ffalling uairs are.
 

andilex

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another thing i noticed, not sure if useful,

when samus has a bomb out, and u use an aerial, the explosion will cancel out the aerial lag. since u go into a ball.
maybe if u run foward and grenade ball back, then run and foward air, the explosion will hit the ending lag and u can bounce foward or back.

maybe this can make forward air safer?

also what are the right inputs for samus missiles?



also anytips on little mac and link?
ive had the most trouble against these two.
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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another thing i noticed, not sure if useful,

when samus has a bomb out, and u use an aerial, the explosion will cancel out the aerial lag. since u go into a ball.
maybe if u run foward and grenade ball back, then run and foward air, the explosion will hit the ending lag and u can bounce foward or back.

maybe this can make forward air safer?

also what are the right inputs for samus missiles?



also anytips on little mac and link?
ive had the most trouble against these two.
Samus Aerials aren't too unsafe in general, the bomb could be useful for mix-ups, but fast characters like Little Mac can punish you near the ground.

Little Mac is kind of a bad matchup to Samus. She doesn't have many punish options against him since even when she manages to hit him, he's often using an armored move. Link's more of a even matchup though, both characters have good spacing, but Link's more defensive while Samus is more combo oriented.

Tell us what problems you're having if you want some advice.
 

Savez

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@ A andilex Actually LM is not really a bad matchup, it's a strange one. I've managed to beat a friend of mine that used to hand my ass to me with LM after reading some posts here and watching some videos. As soon as I get to play him again I'll upload some matches
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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@ A andilex Actually LM is not really a bad matchup, it's a strange one. I've managed to beat a friend of mine that used to hand my *** to me with LM after reading some posts here and watching some videos. As soon as I get to play him again I'll upload some matches
It's doable. We've discussed some strategies, but they don't change the fact that it is a hard matchup. Sure, it's not Brawl MK vs. Ganon, but it's not just a matter of strategy either.
Mac has more tools to shut down Samus, Samus has to make the best use of her tools and use prediction and mind-games to defeat Mac. Sounds like at least a 6-4 to me.
 

andilex

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links down air off stage is stays active for so long, that whether I recover with up b or zair, I usually would get hit by it. and many times link just stays still and can stop anything Samus can do since his shield.

and with little Mac,
I can't zair him since when he runs his hit box gets smaller. his side b and avoids missiles. and it sucks landing against him.
his jabs and ftilt seem to shut down Samus.
I noticed her missiles are to slow to get Mac, and when he runs he ducks down.

and I've lost many matches to him cuz of that KO punch. I'm in the lead then that punch activates.

been trying to play lame, but even go for the kill just to see how long I can keep away. a fun strategy with Samus. but against little Mac, she's just seem to slow.
plus his Dodge roll seems seems like it's the fastest in the game.
... I hate rolls in this game,
they make Samus grab seem slow
 

CardiganBoy

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I think i'm kind of late for impressions but, i gotta say that from the mess that Brawl Samus was, i'm having a lot of fun with this new Samus, she still lacks and lost some things, but i don't feel like struggling anymore or at least that much. She's pretty solid.
 

andilex

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something ive been doin is running then reverse b fully charge shot off stage. if it gets refelcted it will miss u since your falling

unless opponent is right infront of the edge, itll probably hit u
 
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n00b

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why do that? seems like kind of a waste of charge shot. there are few instances where you can really have time to charge it all the way… and flashing samus is much more threatening than a just-fired one.
 

SSS

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Samus.

Zair is good in this game. but for a lot of characters Samus' short hop is just too high to rising zair them so that's annoying.
Smash missile combos into charge shot.
Nair is weird.
She can kind of Ken Combo sometimes.
Fast fall uair into the ground is amazing.
 

IsmaR

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You never Z-air while rising, unless you're fighting someone above or nearly as tall, if not taller/bigger than Samus. Typically you do it while retreating/sinking, or in the air with considerable space between you both (I find most use off stage and for punishing short hop/reflector spammers).

Super Missiles I find are best used for momentum rather than outright offense/"comboing." Pivot missiles nearly fill the gab missile cancelling left in my heart. However they are very easily destroyed/avoided once a competent opponent gets their timing/trajectory down. It's tough being unpredictable with them considering the end/start-up lag, but things like wall jumping (on most FD variations) away from the stage, pivot missiles (I can't tell you how good it feels "punching" someone with a point blank missile when they chase you), or in the typical 'wall of projectile' set-up (which you'll rely more on Homing Missiles and Z-air for). Lastly, I find them good for discouraging shielding, considering three or four (plus a full charged Charge Shot) will wreck a shield. Powershielding tho.

I already love N-air. The timing is incredibly difficult to get down, but it works wonders both off stage and following from aerial strings.

Anyone can do that given the right extremely situational conditions. Namely low % and big characters (or just people with no sense of DI).

U-air can set up very nicely into Screw Attack, or even another U-air (I still get flashbacks to that match with Dryn in Brawl). Plus it's great for returning to the stage (much safer on shield than F-air, granted not as much range), and is just wonderful on stages with platforms.

Some other notes I've found:
- the weird way Screw Attack works (they "nerfed" it from the demo by making the last "suction" hit kill practically all the knockback the initial hit does. Seriously, go use Screw Attack in Multi Man Smash and see how fast they fly from the initial hit vs the last hit)
- how much range her new F-smash has (nobody ever expects it out of pivot). Hitting with the very explosive tip seems disjointed almost
- the odd new "cancel" that happens when you use Z-air and it hits a platform/stage as you're sinking. Like it stops expanding midway/leaves you completely exposed during the animation that still occurs. It's screwed (nyeh) me over more than once.
- D-air's "sourspot" hit actually does pretty good knockback in the air, though I'm still finding it hard to not spike. Thought not nearly as hard as getting the timing down for things like short hop D-air, or using it to punish rolls, etc.
- the "back" hit of N-air is actually decent for punishing air/spot dodges. I don't recommend it, considering there are usually better options/the timing takes a lot of getting used to for N-air in general, let alone specific hitboxes for it.
- uncharged shots feel more useful than in Brawl. I prefer firing them to homing missiles in a pinch.
- Samus can recover/live off stage for days on wall versions of FD. I've literally bomb stalled, wall jumped, jumped out to D-air/B-air/N-air/Z-air/Charge Shot someone away, and still been able to tether/bomb jump back safe and sound. I've also dove straight to the bottom of the stage to get an early spike, and rose back up with wall jumping + double jump + Up B. You do have obvious limitations though, and should be aware of just how care you can go out and still be able to make it back safely (bomb jumping is a lot worse in this regard, you're better off either trying for the tether or just using Screw Attack/hoping your floatiness just barely gets you to the ledge, assuming you don't have someone with Villager-tier recovery trying to spike you).
- Samus works really well in doubles, for rather obvious reasons. Having actual kill moves/strings/a Charge Shot that doesn't suck really did wonders for her. They took away missile cancelling, but left her Z-air and an even sexier F-air.

Still gotta take time to verify a few more things. Samus is far from "the best" the devs made her out to be (or at least this build's/nerfed version), but I really like how she is shaping up. It takes a lot to make her shine, but it doesn't feel nearly as futile as it did in past games.
 

DerpaDoo

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Missiles while grounded should always be fired Weak -> Strong rinse and repeat. The timing isn't necessarily hard to avoid, but it's easy to get shield locked. People will always wait shielded for the weak missile to hit in which time the strong missile follows up quickly. Finally charge shot ftw or to shield break. It's much more mind gamey than regular missile to charge shot and for somebody trying to advance on you with rolling it usually just doesn't work. I really like Samus's missile game in Sm4sh, it's not quite melee but it's still got game.

What do you guys do when you land? I've been trying to shield on the ground when I'm falling and avoiding juggle but I more often than not just air-dodge into ground and get punished. Any suggestions?

Also I'm not entirely convinced that bomb-jumping helps with horizontal recovery. It just seems too slippery.
 

Tasokun

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I usually fast fall, and once close to the ground, use Samus's Up-aerial to cancel landing lag. It can be followed up immediately with a side tilt, or, just about anything really. Sometimes I mix it up with bombs, especially if I see the opponent dashing to get underneath me, I use the bomb to just go straight behind them, and proceed to punish with the aforementioned technique.
 

pinkdeaf1

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Didn't want to make a thread about it if everyone already knew,..

Is everyone aware that Samus can grab opponents out of the air ?

Samus's slip bomb custom down be Meteors opponents if they are in the air.
Anyone can be grabbed in the air by any grab. I think this is known by the players who have strong grab games. Player, not characters, mind you.

But those slip bomb meteors!? I might start using them... But I really want to use normal bombs to their fullest potential. They just have to have some use to them. I can't let one of samus' original moves be cast into history and forgotten.
 

ToTs

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Anyone can be grabbed in the air by any grab.
Well the difference here is all tether chars grabs have greater range. So I can grab someone as far as my tether when they are off stage. Plus it grabs through up B recoveries. You couldn't do that in previous games. I know you couldn't in Melee. Extender lol

Slip bombs really arnt good on stage. The initial Bomb drop doesn't launch you much. I end up getting hit by the bomb blast when I DI away. I'm still testing stuff. Bombs must have a use !
 
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IsmaR

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The slip bomb meteor thing has been known since custom moves were posted. Their use for meteoring off stage is very situational (anyone with an even halfway decent recovery can pretty much shrug them off or disregard them entirely). I suppose the best use would be against horizontal-based recoveries that are vertically challenged (DK, Bowser, Mac, Falco and Yoshi), but it's still very risky.
 

DavemanCozy

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I've been using Samus lately, and I quite like her. Her movement feels very fluid and clean in this game.

Is it me, or is her range just AMAZING in this game? I've found her pivot f-tilt and f-smash to be some of the most useful pivot applications in the entire game: even f-tilt outranges some of Marth and Lucina's moves.

She seems to have some blind spots in some of her hitboxes, though. Namely, I LOVE what her new N-air does to opponents off-stage, but it also seems to have very strict horizontal range. This, and I think the range of screw-attack's first hit from the ground (the jump that pops opponents in the air for the following hits) has been slightly nerfed too, I feel like you need to be closer to the opponent to suck them in.
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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Well the difference here is all tether chars grabs have greater range. So I can grab someone as far as my tether when they are off stage. Plus it grabs through up B recoveries. You couldn't do that in previous games. I know you couldn't in Melee. Extender lol

Slip bombs really arnt good on stage. The initial Bomb drop doesn't launch you much. I end up getting hit by the bomb blast when I DI away. I'm still testing stuff. Bombs must have a use !
I'm pretty sure you can grab opponents out of the air in any game. Don't really know about Melee since I've never really played it, but in 64 I used to combo Link's Boomerang (x2) into Grab all day to get more space while racking up damage. (Good times, miss 64 Boomerang Hitstun.)
 

ToTs

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I'm pretty sure you can grab opponents out of the air in any game. Don't really know about Melee since I've never really played it, but in 64 I used to combo Link's Boomerang (x2) into Grab all day to get more space while racking up damage. (Good times, miss 64 Boomerang Hitstun.)
Well it must be only a melee thing, since thats the only one I played competitively.
 

Afro Smash

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Not sure if its been bought up before but, I find it really difficult vs players who use short hops to approach. Short hopping means they can avoid my projectiles and then when they get close Samus' Fair will usually lose to theirs. I can sometimmes shield their Fair and grab but Samus grab is easily punishable if you miss.

Any tips?

Also how do you tether grab? I thought it was L and that worked in training mode, but when i try it online i seem to only do aerials
 
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Savez

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Not sure if its been bought up before but, I find it really difficult vs players who use short hops to approach. Short hopping means they can avoid my projectiles and then when they get close Samus' Fair will usually lose to theirs. I can sometimmes shield their Fair and grab but Samus grab is easily punishable if you miss.

Any tips?

Also how do you tether grab? I thought it was L and that worked in training mode, but when i try it online i seem to only do aerials
That's one of the questions I asked in the other thread. The only half answer I got is to just run away or shorthop into zair away to create space.

About the ledge tether it may be because you're pressing L while in freefall (tumbling in the air) try doing an airdodge or an aerial and then press L.
 
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Afro Smash

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That's one of the questions I asked in the other thread. The only half answer I got is to just run away or shorthop into zair away to create space.

About the ledge tether it may be because you're pressing L while in freefall (tumbling in the air) try doing an airdodge or an aerial and then press L.
Ah thanks a lot, didn't even know you could Zair :o (had to google what it was rip)
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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Not sure if its been bought up before but, I find it really difficult vs players who use short hops to approach. Short hopping means they can avoid my projectiles and then when they get close Samus' Fair will usually lose to theirs. I can sometimmes shield their Fair and grab but Samus grab is easily punishable if you miss.

Any tips?

Also how do you tether grab? I thought it was L and that worked in training mode, but when i try it online i seem to only do aerials
It helps to mix-up your moves, but against fast characters only prediction will save you. Your F-Air shouldn't be losing that easily unless you're doing it too late. Know it's startup and use it a lot, that's your best close-range air-to-air.
(Unless something changed. I don't have a 3DS)
 

EnGarde

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Is this the correct place to report new findings on Samus? I've been experimenting a lot with morph bombs (the regular ones, no customs), and I'd like to report on 2 interesting things. (I'm cringing by how baaad these matches are, but I'm new and still learning, soooo yeah).

(1) Morph bombs have an active hit box for certain types of moves. My hypothesis is that it activates for all fire or electric moves, but I can only state definitively that it activates against Samus's screw attack and Fox's fiery recovery move. This could be useful off-stage for gimping in those match-ups.

Fox’s fire attack stopped by morph bomb at 1:00

Samus’s screw attack stopped by morph bomb at 1:30, 1:35

(2) Morph bombs are useful for setting traps and have combo potential. I've personally found it best to set bombs while in the air, rather than on the ground, though that's just based on intuition. These bombs can check aggressive approaches, break you free from some combos or grabs, and protect you from punishes while you set up to use stronger moves. Some of the most useful combos are likely to be bomb + d air to check approaches from below while you're recovering, as well as placing a bomb just in front of you and using f smash through the bomb. This checks aggressive ground approaches and gives you some protection from fast jabs during the starting lag of f smash, and if you space/time it right, they will activate at the same time, doing a lot of damage. (EDIT: Also, bomb + grab might be useful as well.) You need to make sure you don't end up too close to the bomb, or you'll be forced into morph ball, which is punishable. I don't know if these combos have any potential at high levels of play, but at least at the level I'm currently at, they feel like they have a lot of potential. I don't have an itemized list of potential combos recorded right now, but you can see some potential ideas in sparring sessions with @MythTrainerInfinity, which I've posted in the gameplay videos thread.

Thanks for reading! :D
 
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DavemanCozy

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Not sure if its been bought up before but, I find it really difficult vs players who use short hops to approach. Short hopping means they can avoid my projectiles and then when they get close Samus' Fair will usually lose to theirs.
You shouldn't be challenging them with F-air in the first place if you're going to short-hop to hit them in the air. If you want to knock your opponent far, N-air is a much better move to hit them in front of you, since it has a direct hitbox in front that comes out faster (F-air's hitboxes start above Samus).

Usually though, retreating Z-airs (air grapple) are almost always better to use to use to interrupt SH approaches. However, keep in mind that Z-air isn't very strong knockback-wise.

Also, you don't even have to chase in the air if an opponent is approaching with short hops. Samus has really good tilts for interrupting those too. Up-tilt covers space above her head and meteors the opponent down to the stage if she hits them with her heel, letting you F-tilt them after (requires your opponent to be at low percent so they don't bounce) or follow with U-air (if your opponent is at high percent and bounces from the U-tilt meteor). An angled-up F-tilt is also really good for stuffing short-hop approaches. It outranges most other character's F-airs too.
 
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Sausage Zeldas

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One thing I've noticed about Samus is that—correct me if I'm wrong—her pummel is pretty amazing. I've found myself just doing it to grab release every so often, but, being as terrible at Smash as I am, I have no idea what to do after that (Dtilt maybe? If that has the right range/speed). In fact, I came into this thread thinking that Samus was pretty good in general, but then it occurred to me that, since I haven't had access to my own 3DS, I've only been able to play her in 3-4 player matches where I can just spam homing missiles and Dtilt/grab sloppy approaches.

But I digress. I feel like her pummel and Dtilt haven't been mentioned enough compared to how much fun I've been having with them. Pummels can rack up some nice damage, and Dtilt combined with good reads could probably start some nice combos leading up to an Up-B. Also, after playing a little bit of Super Theory Bros., I could see being able to combo into a Charge Beam with Zair, MBBombs, and possibly (though I'd need to look at it more carefully) a surprise land-cancelled Fair.

Her dash attack is pretty fun, too, and can help with mind-games. Rush at them, sometimes do a dash attack at them, then throw in some retreating SHs, toss out a dash-grab here and there, or just stop, shield, and see how they react. I'm far from an expert at Smash, though, so you could probably stand to take everything I say with a grain of salt.
 
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DerpaDoo

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dtilt sends people off too far to be used for a combo starter but is good for disrupting opponents and punishing rolls. I've been utilizing a lot more empty shffls in this game and jumping right outside of the opponent's grab range when they are shielding. this has been pretty useful.

Also empty shffl to grab or jump behind them and attack with a well spaced ftilt to prevent anyshield grabbing or jabbing out of shield.
 

Hapajin

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Is Samus still a heavyweight in this game? It seems to me like she is, but I haven't had an opportunity to mess around as much with other characters as much and compare weight.
 

otter

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Not sure if its been bought up before but, I find it really difficult vs players who use short hops to approach. Short hopping means they can avoid my projectiles and then when they get close Samus' Fair will usually lose to theirs. I can sometimmes shield their Fair and grab but Samus grab is easily punishable if you miss.

Any tips?

Also how do you tether grab? I thought it was L and that worked in training mode, but when i try it online i seem to only do aerials
up angled f tilt or zair can help, but you also might just want to retreat and shoot some more stuff. I like to down b and hop backwards so they are hopping into an even worse situation. rolls are worse for me because you have to predict them.

why are you guys saying up air is good for approaching? does it just have the lest landing lag. or is there more going on?
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

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up angled f tilt or zair can help, but you also might just want to retreat and shoot some more stuff. I like to down b and hop backwards so they are hopping into an even worse situation. rolls are worse for me because you have to predict them.

why are you guys saying up air is good for approaching? does it just have the lest landing lag. or is there more going on?
Must be the Landing Lag. I can't even imagine using that for approaching unless the opponent is higher than you. No horizontal hitbox. Isn't Nair a better choice?
 

Meezus

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Although many wont consider Samus "Top Tier" she has fit my play style perfectly and is my best character by far, and I dont think that I am the only one who will feel so strongly about her. BTW her screw attack is the most satisfying move in the game.
 

Rohins

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(1) Morph bombs have an active hit box for certain types of moves. My hypothesis is that it activates for all fire or electric moves, but I can only state definitively that it activates against Samus's screw attack and Fox's fiery recovery move. This could be useful off-stage for gimping in those match-ups.

Fox’s fire attack stopped by morph bomb at 1:00

Samus’s screw attack stopped by morph bomb at 1:30, 1:35
Bombs become active on hit after a certain amount of frames regardless of the type of move connecting with it. You can test this in training mode. Drop a bomb without anything touching it and see how long it takes to explode then do the same thing dropping it on the opponent. You'll see it explode sooner when it is touching the opponent.
 

Afro Smash

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Afro_Smash
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2938-6360-9529
A cool trick ive learned to deal with players that like to jump on approach is predicting their jump and killing with neutral B.

If you have a fully charged Charge Shot and they're looking to approach they'll usually jump, fall a little to bait the shot then jump again. What you can do is after they've jumped and begin to fall is jump just before their second jump and fire. It's very difficult for them to predict this and impossible to air dodge so you can hit it often, and its verrrry satisfying when you do. This isn't something you can react to and needs to be predicted.

Short Hopping and Charge Shot allows you to hit jumping opponents and taller opponents still on the ground so can be a good midway predict.

It's best to mix it up or only throw it out late game to really throw them off, and ensure they cant anticipate it.


Example, slow mo for flair,,
 
Last edited:

IsmaR

Super Moderator
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BRoomer
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Super_Sand_Lezbo
3DS FC
3179-6068-0031
Switch FC
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That's moreso true if you rely on it strictly for killing purposes.

Personally I like using it frequently to really get in their heads, as well as to quickly rack up damage/continue strings.
 
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