Official Samus

[Varia31]

Stay away from bombs. worst move she has by far.

Eh, I dunno. I've managed to throw people off with them before. Particularly players that love to come down on top of you from the air, especially after being thrown. True, they aren't that great of a move, but every once in a while, I've used them to completely mess someone up. It's very possible, you just gotta be smart about timing their placement.

 

[Xyro77]

Thoughts on Samus' placing on most recent (publicly voted) tier list?

I think this is the reddit tier list. very inaccurate. wait until the SWF rankings are done. thats the official one.

Eh, I dunno. I've managed to throw people off with them before. Particularly players that love to come down on top of you from the air, especially after being thrown. True, they aren't that great of a move, but every once in a while, I've used them to completely mess someone up. It's very possible, you just gotta be smart about timing their placement.

I question the intelligence of the person you fought.

 

[Xygonn]

Guys, I'm making a comprehensive list of combos and strings so I can make a chart which sorts all her combos in order of average percentages they can start at sorted in order of percentages from earliest to latest. Send me your obscure combos/strings.

Once I'm done all make it all pretty in PS and post it for everyone to have.

I noticed that if you just use jab 1 only (no jab 2) at higher percents it trips. I don't have much time to lab this, but I'll try to get around to it. Really nice if you are having a hard time KOing, jab 1->CS is guaranteed at high percent.

As for not obscure: Dash attack -> Uair -> Uair -> UpB is ~40% damage and works best at 0%.

Thoughts on Samus' placing on most recent (publicly voted) tier list?

I think she's just unpopular and is suffering from the lingering impression of Brawl samus that was basically unplayable (no offense people that mained her in brawl). Samus was a secondary for me in 64 and Melee. Brawl Samus for me is like Sm4sh Olimar. Samus has some very important traits as the tier lists develop:

1) Good MU against link. The infinite doesn't work on Samus and I believe she has a better zoning game.
2) I don't think the Hoo Haa is guaranteed on Samus starting at very low percents, but I haven't been able to confirm this.
3) ZSS has a very hard time landing her combos on Samus, I can usually escape much easier than with my secondaries where I feel like I get locked in all the time.
1, 2, and 3 are basically part of Samus' basic trait of low falling speed and high weight. This means she flies up fast at the beginning of hits and has low hitstun time. I don't know if this benefit can be overstated.

4) Projectiles are too important in this game compared to other smash games and IMO Samus has the best set.

Accidental double post.

 

[Varia31]

I question the intelligence of the person you fought.

I've done it to several people, actually, even some decent ones. Now would they really do anything against a seasoned veteran player? Most likely not. I just think the bombs can have their uses here and there because most don't even expect you to use them. Please don't assume I only fight people that don't know what they're doing just because I've somehow gotten away with using them. lol All I'm saying is that, in my opinion at least (and maybe to some others), they aren't completely worthless.

 

[meleebrawler]

The thing about bombs is that you aren't really actively trying to hit people with them,
so much as using their unique movement properties to defend yourself. They let you stall
and shift your air momentum, screwing with the minds of people who see Samus as easy
pickings for juggles. The bomb is basically an extra. Of course this mixup isn't always guaranteed
to work, but it's almost like having multiple jumps when it comes to descending.

 

[Varia31]

The thing about bombs is that you aren't really actively trying to hit people with them,
so much as using their unique movement properties to defend yourself. They let you stall
and shift your air momentum, screwing with the minds of people who see Samus as easy
pickings for juggles. The bomb is basically an extra. Of course this mixup isn't always guaranteed
to work, but it's almost like having multiple jumps when it comes to descending.

Agreed. And actively using them in a fight isn't what I do, I'm merely making the observation that they aren't 100% worthless. Honestly, the fact that I've managed to hit people with them a few times may be dumb luck on my part, really. Though I do try to time their placement to act as an extra obstacle once in a while. But, I digress.

 

[meleebrawler]

Agreed. And actively using them in a fight isn't what I do, I'm merely making the observation that they aren't 100% worthless. Honestly, the fact that I've managed to hit people with them a few times may be dumb luck on my part, really. Though I do try to time their placement to act as an extra obstacle once in a while. But, I digress.

If you want a bomb that you really want to hit people with, Slip Bomb is probably your best bet.
Blows up faster and has surprising range (there's a ring that shows up briefly that roughly equates
it's range), as well as resulting in a trip which can lead to followups. And Power Bomb controls
ground spacing better. What the default has over the others is bomb jumping.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

As for not obscure: Dash attack -> Uair -> Uair -> UpB is ~40% damage and works best at 0%.

Is that a true combo? I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the Uair to UpB stuff I see other Samus' do online can be easily DId out of.

 

[IsmaR]

It's character dependent, I think. Sometimes I get F-air chains easier than U-air ones.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I think I may have found some pretty cool tech but let me know if it's old news. Samus can buffer a shield drop while charging her neutral B. It's easy if you've mastered the control stick motion necessary for a shield drop. While charging slightly tilt your control stick as if you were to do a shield drop and hold it at the lowest point of the range. If you input your shield at any moment while holding the control stick in this position, you'll instantly cancel your charging animation into a shield drop. I assume you can do this for any character with a charging neutral B like WFT and Donkey Kong.

 

[Xyro77]

Samus got a small buff in the newest patch. Go here to my latest post for more info

Www.smashboards.com/threads/the-green-lesbian-is-back-learn-about-samus-here-updated-1-13-2015.377587/page-7#post-18491091


Edit: NVM. False

 

[KayJay]

Awesome for our up tilt.

Edit: Seems like it doesn't apply to grounded opponents. A shame.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm finding still more training mode true combos and strings. There is a big long list now... she's a combo queen, straight out of streetfighter.
Credit to Muramashi, who shows some here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPveD9XHFA
My favourite of that bunch is the n-air -> d-tilt for a quick 20%, quite easy to do, and I'm pulling it off in online matches.

The neat thing about samus is many of these begin and work only at low % with sweet spot. However they can be modified to work at higher % if instead you sourspot. Like b-air sourspot -> f-tilt.
So many of the up-air links and chains work still at higher %, you just have to land them differently to get only the weak knockback hits in. Same thing with the n-air. The back-kick is in fact not completely worthless, nor is jab 1-2, it's just damn hard to use. A true expert with knowledge of all the %s, sweet and sour, and the reflexes to pull it all off could be quite fearsome.

Right now I feel 2 months in we are at the stage where we're rolling around shooting missiles (exaggerated but I've done it myself, and stand accused) and this character is in fact way way more deep.

 

[Xygonn]

I'm finding still more training mode true combos and strings. There is a big long list now... she's a combo queen, straight out of streetfighter.
Credit to Muramashi, who shows some here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPveD9XHFA
My favourite of that bunch is the n-air -> d-tilt for a quick 20%, quite easy to do, and I'm pulling it off in online matches.

The neat thing about samus is many of these begin and work only at low % with sweet spot. However they can be modified to work at higher % if instead you sourspot. Like b-air sourspot -> f-tilt.
So many of the up-air links and chains work still at higher %, you just have to land them differently to get only the weak knockback hits in. Same thing with the n-air. The back-kick is in fact not completely worthless, nor is jab 1-2, it's just damn hard to use. A true expert with knowledge of all the %s, sweet and sour, and the reflexes to pull it all off could be quite fearsome.

Right now I feel 2 months in we are at the stage where we're rolling around shooting missiles (exaggerated but I've done it myself, and stand accused) and this character is in fact way way more deep.

Nice. I feel like Jabs have lots of untapped potential that requires lots of knowledge and testing. I've gotten trips on Jab 1 against some characters but I tested against diddy and it never trips him. I've also gotten trips on Jab 2 but I don't remember against which character and what percent. I think in this game there is some generic trip mechanic for low knockback moves that isn't well understood.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I'm finding still more training mode true combos and strings. There is a big long list now... she's a combo queen, straight out of streetfighter.
Credit to Muramashi, who shows some here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPveD9XHFA
My favourite of that bunch is the n-air -> d-tilt for a quick 20%, quite easy to do, and I'm pulling it off in online matches.

The neat thing about samus is many of these begin and work only at low % with sweet spot. However they can be modified to work at higher % if instead you sourspot. Like b-air sourspot -> f-tilt.
So many of the up-air links and chains work still at higher %, you just have to land them differently to get only the weak knockback hits in. Same thing with the n-air. The back-kick is in fact not completely worthless, nor is jab 1-2, it's just damn hard to use. A true expert with knowledge of all the %s, sweet and sour, and the reflexes to pull it all off could be quite fearsome.

Right now I feel 2 months in we are at the stage where we're rolling around shooting missiles (exaggerated but I've done it myself, and stand accused) and this character is in fact way way more deep.

I personally refrain from heavy combo play but these are all really slick combos. I'm making a point of learning all these combos. Thanks for sharing, man.

 

[Afro Smash]

Why would you refrain from that?

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ Xygonn Agreed, on all points. I think, but I don't know, that stage friction may affect the strange trip rate. Like the ice in great cave offensive.

@ GdspdUblkprzdnt Didn't you just last week ask for a comprehensive list of combos? I swear it's right there on the previous page of this thread.
I actually think it might be better to have a separate, stickied combo thread where we can have it all in one place and with combo videos. I was planning on going through the work of verifying %s against the cast.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I was looking for some more obscure ones like the ones in the video you posted which are nothing sort of funky fresh.

 

[Xyro77]

No DI/poor DI combos are always nice.

 

[jahkzheng]

You guys should have a dedicated combo/highlight video/guide thread stickied on the board. That way there'd be a quick reference to her moveset/ATs and their utilities with video references. You have two custom threads stickied basically. Her regular moveset deserves at least as much. And a place to find all your video references and highlight videos would be cool too. I find seeing stuff in action is one of the most effective ways to learn them. I've gotten some info digging around in this thread but it's mostly a general discussion thread. I'd offer to do it myself but my resources are sadly shallow, hence why I came here looking. Haven't given my Samus proper attention, so I'm way behind on stuff I'm sure a lot of you know by now. I figure a veteran of the Samus board could offer a thread up like this and do a much better job than me. Plus, I wouldn't want to step on anyone's toes if they had an idea about how this should happen.

 

[RoachCake]

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me, I could make it if no one else wants to, I've got a bit of info I haven't shared yet that could be put in the thread.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Hey RC, I have started writing everything I know down, I plan on posting sometimes in the next day or so, it's pretty detailed (like a couple pages long now... lol).
I can definitely do the text, I don't have video equipment (yet).

 

[jahkzheng]

I'm certain there's people here that do have video equipment that could capture ATs, combos, strings, whatever, in action. Also, there's existing video info on the web as well that can be linked in the OP.

 

[RoachCake]

I know of some videos that can be put in, just gotta find em again.
And all I've got is a cruddy camera, so unless someone else is willing to record stuff, we'll probably be using alot of potato footage. (Which I really don't want to do)

 

[GameBird]

I just spent the evening doing some For Glory as Samus and fared pretty well. Granted several of my opponents were not the greatest, but it felt good tricking people in the air and forcing them to air dodge (as cpus always air dodge perfectly)
Apparently some people dislike fighting Samus because a lot of people just spam projectiles with her, but I've noticed I am a very aggressive Samus and I like to get in people's faces and tear them apart haha. Usually it works out in my favor.

I'd love to do some Samus dittos sometime and hopefully learn some new techniques from you guys!

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I just spent the evening doing some For Glory as Samus and fared pretty well. Granted several of my opponents were not the greatest, but it felt good tricking people in the air and forcing them to air dodge (as cpus always air dodge perfectly)
Apparently some people dislike fighting Samus because a lot of people just spam projectiles with her, but I've noticed I am a very aggressive Samus and I like to get in people's faces and tear them apart haha. Usually it works out in my favor.

I'd love to do some Samus dittos sometime and hopefully learn some new techniques from you guys!

Hey, man. You got to missile your way to victory. That's the only way to play Samus. If you can use turbo missiles that'd be hella tight too, man. Just stay away from those tricky reflects, man. They're horrible!

 

[GameBird]

Yeah I have beem experimenting with custom moves here and there too. missiles are great for baiting and gaining control of

Edit: weird my post got cut off and I never noticed...

 

[Xyro77]

Thanks for playing WarHound and I tonight, Ismar. Samus dittos are the best MU In this game.

 

[Fluidityt]

Thanks for playing WarHound and I tonight, Ismar. Samus dittos are the best MU In this game.

Uh. I actually hate fighting her. She's so annoying! Always charging dat shot x[

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Thanks for playing WarHound and I tonight, Ismar. Samus dittos are the best MU In this game.

Could you upload some of those games? Bet they'd be a blast to watch.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Uh. I actually hate fighting her. She's so annoying! Always charging dat shot x[

Lol true, I honestly think Samus is her own worst match up

 

[Xygonn]

It's a very momentum heavy matchup. Once you can push samus off the stage and get your CS it's hard for that offstage samus to get out of the on stage samus' stage control.

 

[Xyro77]

I didn't save any of them because it's wifi. The only one I did save was 1 where I 3 stocked him in under 1.5min because of a shield push.

 

[jahkzheng]

I just spent the evening doing some For Glory as Samus and fared pretty well. Granted several of my opponents were not the greatest, but it felt good tricking people in the air and forcing them to air dodge (as cpus always air dodge perfectly)
Apparently some people dislike fighting Samus because a lot of people just spam projectiles with her, but I've noticed I am a very aggressive Samus and I like to get in people's faces and tear them apart haha. Usually it works out in my favor.

I'd love to do some Samus dittos sometime and hopefully learn some new techniques from you guys!

Samus feels best either at a distance or right up inside the opponent preferably on a blind side or where they're disadvantaged. It almost sounds dirty tbh. Her midrange game leaves a bit to be desired for me. Her safest stuff at that range is like dtilt. Zair too if they're a little further out than dtilt range. Homing missiles if they're about as far or further and they're slow, but that's no longer midrange area, but long range again. I feel like ftilt might actually have better reach than fsmash sometimes so perhaps that's an option at that range I should use more. That fsmash so often feels perfectly spaced out of range, heh. It's like she stunts her arm for it. Oh, and I'm discovering that utilt is one of her better kill moves. Also feels like it outranges fsmash although it is pretty slow. It's great when it spikes into the ground and you can follow up with another utilt and aerial from that or tech read them after the spike. If I can find a way to integrate utilt more into my strategy and trick people into it more often, then I'll have an easier time in general at midranges.

 

[Xygonn]

Samus feels best either at a distance or right up inside the opponent preferably on a blind side or where they're disadvantaged. It almost sounds dirty tbh. Her midrange game leaves a bit to be desired for me. Her safest stuff at that range is like dtilt. Zair too if they're a little further out than dtilt range. Homing missiles if they're about as far or further and they're slow, but that's no longer midrange area, but long range again. I feel like ftilt might actually have better reach than fsmash sometimes so perhaps that's an option at that range I should use more. That fsmash so often feels perfectly spaced out of range, heh. It's like she stunts her arm for it. Oh, and I'm discovering that utilt is one of her better kill moves. Also feels like it outranges fsmash although it is pretty slow. It's great when it spikes into the ground and you can follow up with another utilt and aerial from that or tech read them after the spike. If I can find a way to integrate utilt more into my strategy and trick people into it more often, then I'll have an easier time in general at midranges.

Definitely get used to utilt! I'm a huge fan. I think it is great vs. monkey flip recoveries (for example). The nice thing about utilt is that the end lag isn't as bad as most of samus' moves. If they don't punish the start lag, which is 15 frames (it's actually 2 frames faster than captain falcon's). Looking at Rohins IASA data, utilt ends on frame 18 and is IASA at frame 42. That's 24 frames, which isn't great, but compared to all of Samus' other moves isn't so bad.

For reference:
Move   - Damage Frames - IASA - End lag
Jab1   - 3~4     - 19 - 15
Jab2   - 18~21   - 45 - 24 (including frames for jab1)
Ftilt  - 8~10    - 35 - 25
Dtilt  - 6~8     - 41 - 33
Utilt  - 15~18   - 42 - 24
Fsmash - 10~11   - 50 - 40
Dsmash - 9+18    - 54 - 26
Usmash - 11~28   - 58 - 30

Edit to fix Jab. Jab 2 actually starts on frame 12 of jab 1 (before IASA), with IASA for jab 2 reflecting that. Utilt is actually the same end lag punish window as jab 2!

 

[KayJay]

A very good defensive frametrap wall is jumping and when Samus is midair you drop a bomb and retreat (analogstick completely to the left/right, not diagonal) and when Samus lands you do the up tilt.

It also punishes rolls pretty good if they aren't too close, it punishes ground and short hop approaches and thanks to the bomb you cover your ending lag.
Also, Samus has a true combo when she does Jab 1 instead of utilt. After Jab 1 hits the enemy, he gets hit by the bomb right after and then you can grab, smash or whatever.
I highly recommend it.

 

[jahkzheng]

@ Xygonn and @ KayJay

Thanks guys. I'll definitely keep this advice in mind. I especially like the bomb ideas. I've used bombs some as traps but it's usually something I just follow up with a dash attack or a grab, probably because I space too much. Will have to try using it for closer ranged stuff like jab, utilt, and fsmash much more.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I have been mixing in more up-tilt and less f-tilt recently. Yes it's slower on startup but the end lag like Xygonn posted is actually quite decent. And it combos in to literally everything.

 

[IsmaR]

You need to watch out for the widened hurtbox for it, though. Anything that hits even the tip of the foot/space above the leg is fair game.

 

[jahkzheng]

You need to watch out for the widened hurtbox for it, though. Anything that hits even the tip of the foot/space above the leg is fair game.

Hey IsmaЯ, been wanting to tell you that I think I randomly ran into you in FG doubles online a few weeks ago. I thought I recognized the name from Smashboards as a guy that gets around on here. Almost certain it was your very same name sans the reverse "R". And the person used Samus. I was playing around with Falco as I recall. Just some silly matches that I don't recall exactly. Think it's the first time I've run into a name I recognized from here randomly while playing Smash online.

Oh, and I really liked your "Samus with a mug" avatar that you had a couple days ago. Where did you find that image? It was pretty great.