Samus v.s Peach

[f5o0x]

WOW......people type way to much on these things!

 

[The_Krumber]

Originally posted by Oro
I love to fight Peach. Samus sure feels like a Peach counter to me.

I'd say one of Samus's biggest advantages over Peach is how freaking easy it is to hit her with a charge blast. So many of Peach's moves feel safe from a distance, but are wide open to charge blasts. If she's pulling a turnip and is half a stage away from you, you can hit her with the blast. If she's jumping at you and throws a turnip, you can hit her with the blast. If she's floating directly at you, shoot slightly below her (but still high enough to hit her). If she doesn't have a second jump, she has no chance of avoiding it. If she does have a second jump, she has a fraction of a chance. If she's dumb enough to do a dsmash and you're not with it it's range (like many Peaches get accustomed to doing), you can hit her with a real easy charge blast. And also, your typical set ups like hitting off of tech rolls and rolls still do wonders against Peach. So any time that you have time, charge a blast up, you'll probably have an opportunity to shoot it.

A lot of Peaches, as I've noticed, like to Shield grab a lot. If you see one trying to do so to you, do a dair, l cancel into a jab, and then dsmash. If she continues to shield the entire time, the dsmash will push you out of her grab range. If she tries to shield grab the dair, the jab and dsmash will hit her. Take advantage of the fact that when l-cancelled, Samus has the least amount of landing lag of any of the higher tier characters.

Fsmash ***** Peach. It outprioritizes all of Peach's aerials. If she's floating at you, a good strategy is to just walk away and then smash her when she's within your range. Ftilts also a good move. Good to put pressure on her shield, good for knocking her around, great range.

Recovery's a bit of a pain if you're coming in low. Turnips can screw up bomb jumps, but you can actually use them to your advantage, by letting the turnips hit your bombs while you're still near them, thus giving you the jump of the bomb without getting hit by the turnip. But that's more of an art, I don't know how to teach that Without using your second jump, try to get underneath the ledge, then jump up and use your grapple to grab it if necessary. Ledge hopping on and cancelling into a dsmash seems to work wonders.

Your main kill moves on Peach should be Charge Blast, Fsmash, Ftilt, possibly uptilt, possibly sex kick, and missiles. There's a number of good ways to get these off on her, too, even against really good Peaches.

well, i think you should really listen to oro on this, because he plays against hugz quite a lot, and his crew got in the top 20 in san fran.

kudos 4-letter name cthis is also a great matchup to do on kirby64, .1 damage, 99 stock.

 

[_Schills_]

Match-up seems somewhat even to me

I'd probably give the advantage to Peach slightly though just because Samus has to crouch-cancel sometimes it's a big part of her game, iv'e caught my friend a few times CCing a nair and then floatcancelling it into a d-smash. Missiles do kinda ruin Peach's turnip game but Peach's b-air can rip right through them and you can do different things when you get close to Samus. If Samus does have an advantage in this matchup it's because of her nair and bair though, Between the two Peach has a tough time approaching samus in the air. Edge-guarding Peach is pretty much out of he question for Samus i'd say, Peach just can get to high over Samus for her to do anything to. Edge-guarding Samus isn't very much of problem though. I normally wait for the grapple and just jump down and nair when Samus tries to get back up, if Samus tries to approach at ground level i just grab and f-throw back out. Overall, the matchup isn't as tough for Samus as i make it sound. If the two players fighting each other were at about equal level id say that Peach would win but really if one player was better than the other the match is even enough that the better player would win, playing as either Peach or Samus.

P.S. I know Dreamland64 is a good Samus stage but whith very little vertical kill options and Peach's insane side recover all Peach has to do is DI everything up to win there. FD would be a much better stage for Samus

 

[co_and_me]

I dont see why platforms are that great for samus expecially vs peach. mainly because peach's dsmash does so much damage if u are under the platform. I dont usually end up trying to attack her if she is doing the dsmash but if u end up in it once thats like 50 damage. Secondly i find the platforms get in my way when i want to SHMC and chase it or SHMC again. Personally I feel trapped above the platform against Peach Marth Cfalcon and Fox. DO u guys have ideas/advice for fighting from above a platform or getting to ground level asap?

 

[Fleur de Lis]

I think Peach definitely has a big advantage over Samus here. I'm not going to waste my time saying why I think so, I'm just going to say that I've downloaded a lot of vids, and I very rarely see Samus beating Peach, not to mention my own experience versus local Peaches. I keep downloading videos of Wes fighting some random Peach, but I never see him win. I keep playing Peaches around here, and I always have a way harder time than they do. Samus is one of my best characters, and fighting Peach is the only trouble I ever have against the people around here. And as far as videos go, I have one of HugS beating a Peach, but that's it. all in all, I don't see Samus winning many against Peach, despite whatever technical advantages Samus may have.

 

[BIG. G]

samus>peach f*ck that biatch

 

[PolyCabeza]

peach > samus > all

one reason only - her CRAZY wavedash

 

[The_Krumber]

samus ownz almost everyone, IMO everyone, on dreamland. The ceiling is very high and it will often take 200+% to kill samus.

Another stage is battlefield, pretty much because of the platforms. Although, grappling may be a little harder, im not sure.

Another one I can think of is brinstar depths, though most people don't play there. For me, its because she can grapple everything, but, for the most part, you can't hang at all or the beam will dislatch. Still, as the course shifts, many characters will have a problem recovering, but not samus.

Mainly shoot for stages with either a high ceiling or platforms or both if possible.

seriously, pick poke stadium....... there are like.......... MILLIONS OF WAYS TO MISSLE SPAM!!!

gotta give props to oro and hugz. they were the ones that inspired me to pick up spammus(MINE!!!!). Check this out: dual missle jump, jump above a platform and missle, double jump missle, then wavedash off the platforn into another missle, then do the weird short hop-onto-the-platform-missle-then-fall-through-missle-into-misslecancle-repeat.

i call it: SHMPCMC

the uber 1337 short hop missle platform cancle missle cancle

that is a lot of missles

as you can tell, 70 percent of my samus game is based around misles.


ps.. i get pwned by good docs.... for the same reason...


edit: did you know peach is an anagram of CHEAP???!&(*^!@*!&

OMFGWTFBBQ!^@%@!$^!%

 

[Fleur de Lis]

High ceilings don't help Samus as much as you'd think. Samus isn't that heavy upwards, and while a high ceiling really helps, it's also probably likely to help out your opponent also, if not more. The heaviest is C.F. vertically, so he's an example of someone who REALLY benefits from a high ceiling.
Anyway...missile spamming...HugS...Oro...yes, you need to go to my thread and give props to them there, because they obviously deserve much praise for their awesome playing styles.
Oh, and depending on who you're fighting, Corneria is a really good stage. Watch Wes or Oro play there, and you will see how cheap you can be. Seriously, B+up to the edge is more than just a way to harm your opponent, it's a serious mind game, because they will want to ****ing kill you after about 5 minutes of that. And also, the close range fighting in that area at the end of the ship really helps Samus out against most characters (just don't get too close to that wall, or Peach will down smash spam..) Just watch out there, because a good Doc or Mario can combo very well in short range fighting, but against most people, Samus has that place secured.

 

[PhillCollins]

I dunno, samus doesn't have that many vertical kill moves. If you're winning by upthrows and downsmashing into the stage thne you're probably doint this wrong.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Ha Ha you can totally take advantage of her turnips including super turnips.
Nailing Peach w/ her own junk causes severe lagginess.
Now I don't see Her as freakin hard.
!!Also I now pronounce Battlefield as my new counter pick!!

 

[Bosh]

how do you catch the turnips? because those were truly a pain when i was playing lvl 9 peach

 

[C.S. Dinah]

how do you catch the turnips? because those were truly a pain when i was playing lvl 9 peach

Oh, Quite simple just before the tunip hits you press the A button!
Same with every other item.
But,beware Peach is also able to pull out a beam sword.
(RIGGED)

 

[Paradigm]

Oh, Quite simple just before the tunip hits you press the A button!
Same with every other item.
But,beware Peach is also able to pull out a beam sword.
(RIGGED)

Unless you're in the air, in which case you hit Z. It's very helpful if she's throwing them at you as you're trying to recover - not only does it get it out of the way without forcing you to change your course/timing/etc, but there's tricks you can do with it to help you recover even better (bombing a turning right after you drop it knocks both you and the turnip up, where you could re-catch it).

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Well really Peach has to pullout turnips first.
Just earlier she pulled out death turnip and indeed I caught it and KOed her w/ it. Still with the turnip in my possesion, just waiting for her return. Peach does, pulls out a turnip,but not just any turnip, the SAME FLIPPING SUPER TURNIP.
My eyes glared at the T.V. along w/ WTF?
Before I known what to do I was already KOed w/ her fresh-out-of-the-ground super turnip. W/ that almost sworn her next turnip was the same one.
Now My advice to you all:
(1. keep the princess from using Vegatables! With that luck she may pull out three more super turnips!
(2.if she does Catch it with A ,or what Paradigm posted in the air Z Button!
(3.Pray that its not a BeamSword or Bob-omb(Mr. Saturn will screw up the Charged shot)!
Man Peach is RIGGED!

 

[Watty]

man u guys revived an old *** thread. Its a good thread if u read some of the old old posts some of the best samus players to play the game chimed in with info. Oro posted he plays wife FYI and is a great samus player juss read through this baby ther is probably gold for information in it

 

[AIDS]

peach > samus > all

one reason only - her CRAZY wavedash

ok this makes almost no sence...who are you trying to support? lol XD

 

[Rat]

check out these new matches if you haven't seen them.

Hugs vs EdreesesPieces 1 - Fountain of Dreams

Hugs vs EdreesesPieces 2 - Dreamland 64

Hugs vs EdreesesPieces 3 - Battlefield

Hugs vs EdreesesPieces 4 - DK 64




Here is a Fun-Yeah! Analysis of Hugs’ Samus game vs. Peach.


First, compliments to both players. They are both are very good and play very intelligently. You can see that Edreeses starts spacing Peach's aerials better/more-differently; complicating Hugs Nair-intercept. On a side note, Samus is a linebacker and we all know Linebackers > ninjas (also princesses). Hugs' timing and game plan is too good. He doesn’t do anything ridiculously stupid (well except for some dumb recovery stuff the 2nd match,) like spam DashA or Dair. Too smart and too good.

For example, the first little sequence. At 7:55 (game time) Hugs starts his walking Ftilt Jab Ftilt craziness. Edreeses has planned for the DashA/SHFFLness, and CCs into a Dtilt then Fsmash. Edreeses gets the Fsmash, Hugs lands an Ftilt. Then Hugs keeps (roughly) the same plan with Jab to Fsmash. Edreeses smartly changes and counters with a Float-canceled Fair above the range of the Fsmash. The position immediately repeats; Hugs jabs again while Edreeses goes for the same counter! But this time Hugs wtf-shields after the jab! This is good sh**. Even though it changes for the worst (Was there a reason you went for a Missile instead of just UpBing for the 12% damage and a relatively equal position?), that little change gave Hugs the option to UpB, WD away, Jump then missile, or whatever. If he would have stayed with the same Jab he would have been hit with another Fair (or more). I'm not sure how much of that is conditioning or how much was thought out but that's too good. Both play smart, with constant adjustment.

Another example I love, is at about 5:04 of the first game. Edreeses is at the edge while Hugs is jabbing his shield. So he tries to roll behind Hugs. Previously in the match, Hugs would say “no Bullsh**” and UpB that junk. But this time Hugs didn't UpB. Why? It was a perfect opportunity for free damage. But he doesn’t! This time Edreeses was holding a turnip, meaning she could not Dsmash, jab or grab. All of her good options were gone. Then peach prepares to devour the upcoming roll-into-UpB meal with a shield. But instead Hugs takes the liberty to just simply turn around and continuing Jab canceling. Hugs is too good!


So here is my short analysis of Hugs’ game plan against Peach. Please keep in mind this is MY analysis of Hugs’ Samus vs. Peach game. (It’s obviously going have my bias (duh) and is mostly for my benefit.)


Main Peach Strategery:
Pressure Control

Overarching goals:
Land Pressure, interception of aerials (Samus is a linebacker.), get-in and get-out.

Ground:
Pressure Peach!
The sweet spot (spacing, not the edge) is the spot too close for her DashAs and Turnip spam but far enough to spam Ftilt and Fsmashes, buffered by Jabs of course, so she can't run in. It also has to be out of Dsmash/Jab/Standing-grab range. (Hugs only gets hit by Peach’s Dsmash like 5 times the whole set! too good.) If she wants to attack on the ground peach has to get through the Ftilt-Jab-Fsmash trap/wall. Key to this trap is to know when it “opens-up.” This is after an Fsmash, Peach jumping and floating just out of range, or you just laying the trap by giving her a little space. Hopefully the peach will, most of the time, try to get out immediately. This could be with Bairs, Nairs, DashAs, roll towards or any sort of attack. This is easily answered by just WDing back to Fsmash, Utilt, shielding, or retreating and respacing. Through the set, Edreeses constantly tries to relieve the pressure. Struggling to push Hugs out with Fsmashes, Float canceled Bairs/Fairs, or trying to roll into Hugs. (Edreeses also tried CC baiting a lot.) Pretty much whenever Hugs gave a small gap, Edreeses tried to stop the pressure. But it was probably rather obvious attack for Hugs, as he laid the trap and knows when the gap is. Creating a trap with-in a trap.

If peach does gets inside, use UpB to get her out! We don’t want to see any of her Dsmashes, grabs, or inside float canceling craziness (nair->nair->nair->nair anyone?). Don't get predictable with the UpB. Shield Upb, SpotDodge UpB, or just UpB. And ff she grabs her options are Dthrow and Fthrow, DI appropriately.

If the field opens, and if the stage and current stage position allow (seen easier on battlefield, FoD) close it in. Do it either with MC goodness, shield approach loveliness, or the wait/dance and space game. I don't know what the contingency plan is if peach gains turnip control, as this hardly ever happened. Edreeses would usually try to get inside or Hugs would wait for an opportunity to steal the sweet spot back.

Air:
If peach has enough space and starts approaching you with Floats. Time it right and intercept with Nairs. This is not possible all the time so WD space with Utilts, and Fsmashes. Also make sure to shield. Pressure that space above her head (when she is standing) with Charge Shots/Missiles, to slow and stall the Floating game. If they she jumps and they hit, woo-hoo! If they don't she should be afraid enough to stay on the ground (especially if you have a full charge), and let you Ftilt-trap game her. Don't jump too much and don't let peach get below you. (Honestly Edreeses could of done a better job of keeping Hugs in the air. A lot of times Edreeses would go for an Usmash and give Hugs the time to Bomb or FF down to ground level.) Uair is useful as it out prioritizes her Dair and comes out too fast. It is more useful at lower %s considering it combos. But note that her floating can out space it. When using an aerial attack on a grounded Peach, space Bairs, and nairs. Time them low! The aerials are also part of the Ftilt/jab trap, as jumping back creates the illusion of an opening. So it’s good to lead back into the ground pressure game. Get back on the ground. Bair peach.


Edge guard:
She is High: Push down/hit with power-missiles, then space an Fsmash. Intercept with Nair or Jump and create a wall with Samus’ Bair.
She is even: Utilt and missiles. Grab Edge for Ledgehop nair/bair.
(this is where I get a little confused. But I'll ask questions at the end.)
She is Below: Ledgehop Nairs or Dsmash(!?). Grab the sweet-spot outside of peaches ledge-game range.

If she acquires the edge get out of Ledge attack/Ledgehop range, and Fsmash (or jab-->Fsmash.) Know her options. LH fair/bair/nair. Lroll. Stand-up. Lattack. Jump. Adjust appropriately.

Recovery:
Watch her! You can get around Horizontal Turnips by changing between Bomb jumps, just bombing, FFing, and just moving back towards the edge. Nair>Turnip. (I like to try and catch them, even off of the edge. But that will get you killed.) She will also be aiming at your bombs, not just you. Don’t let her hit them! You can get around vertical turnips by using a Sweetspotted grapple. Just like everyone else if they try to come out and attack anticipate and change the timing with aerial-bomb mobility.
On the ledge, generally act quickly. You can camp the ledge a little bit, but not too much. Will try to Dsmash it. If she is close, Ledgehop nair. If she is far, ledgehop, land on stage and Dsmash/regain control. (Dsmashing lead to some bad situations....) Also sometimes it’s a good idea to get hit by an edgeguarded Dsmash.

Things Hugs didn't do:
-Random Dsmashes, on if it would hit.
-He hardly every Dtilted (usually at low % for a quick combo)
-Windmilled when Edreeses was on the ground.
-Attack with Dair. (3-4 times the whole set)
-Spam a lot of missiles. Usually went straight for the sweet spot.
-Usmash (duh)


Some questions for Hugs:
-Why Dsmash edge guard? I've noticed you realy only do it against Peach and Marth , which makes sense given where their UpBs hit. But, unless they bounce, your helping them by popping them back up on to the stage. Why not just go for some sort of Fsmash when they try to get back up?
-Why so few bombs? When peach rolled into you (which was alot) why not sometimes bomb on the shield?
-What stage did you ban? Mute City? What did he ban?
-Why counter pick Battlefield? Why not Pokemon Stadium?
-What were you focusing on for that match-up?



Ok, I want to write some more. Mostly on what changed in the 2nd game, which caused Hugs to lose. What was changed again in the 3rd and 4th games ftw.
I also want to add some more about mix-ups in what I'm calling the Jab/Ftilt trap. And I want to do some analysis of when Hugs got hit and why, but I have to go to work right now.

Thanks to The Game II and getyourtournament.com for the videos.

 

[HugS]

I approve of the post above me.

Hope it helps some of you guys.

 

[AIDS]

i normally sturggle with peach no matter who i am, is there a reason she gives a lot of trouble, what are the things that make her limited?

 

[Shakugan]

Samus cant handle peach thats the end of that ok peach >>>>>>mewtwo>>>>>samus and i mean it to

 

[VA]

How in the hell do you edge guard the 5lut?

 

[AIDS]

How in the hell do you edge guard the 5lut?

missles, and as she sloats above you dont go after her, wait until she attempts to touch the ground and nail the WH0re! it is a gay match up! i wish she was like dead...forever

 

[VA]

Me too, I don't have problems with ANY other match up. In England, most other smashers can be gimped easily by dsmash and some se><y edgeguarding skillz. No one even knows what CC jabz means here either lol.

Most people say missles + charge shot = the recipe to success of edge guarding vs Peach. I'm guessing if she's really high up you just leave her until she gets to the floor.

I might be moving to Vancouver for six months in March, smash scene any good around there?

 

[AIDS]

Me too, I don't have problems with ANY other match up. In England, most other smashers can be gimped easily by dsmash and some se><y edgeguarding skillz. No one even knows what CC jabz means here either lol.

Most people say missles + charge shot = the recipe to success of edge guarding vs Peach. I'm guessing if she's really high up you just leave her until she gets to the floor.

I might be moving to Vancouver for six months in March, smash scene any good around there?

dude if youy are coming to vancouver welcome to our smash comunity, we got lotsa of good players, and wait till peach trys to touch the ground, don't let her get her float and jumps back, peach is so enoying thank god there are almost no BC peaches...