Salt Mini Mafia | Game Over | Victors: Town

[Maven89]

Except part of mafia is letting others get a read on you, and so far you have actively avoided giving anything to really make people come up with a read on you except for the N0 gambit which is null. You should lead by example, right now it looks like you're using the "coaching" style to avoid giving information on yourself or truly make pushes on if someone is scum or town yet still look active. I want to know what you think about the game so far, pretending you're the only person "driving this" is ridiculous, you haven't made a single push or really done much other then say "good job!" to people or liking their posts even if you clearly disagree with what they said. That's great and all, but at some point you have to play too

 

[Spak]

If Omar flips town, I wouldn't be suspicious enough of anyone enough to lynch. It seems like a lot of people are targeting Omar (to get pressure off of themselves), but that might just be that he just had the earliest non-RVS suspicious post.

I feel like the coaching from Dastrn might be a really good strategy from a standpoint of gaining people's trust early if he were Mafia, but I'm getting a town vibe from him when I look back at his post because he was encouraging people to not let him control the conversation.

 

[lolazerz]

I'm getting a town-vibe from Spak and as for Omar. I don't yet know what to think of him, he has a lot of people targeting him but I want to see how he re-acts to this before I accuse him.

 

[Dastrn]

Except part of mafia is letting others get a read on you, and so far you have actively avoided giving anything to really make people come up with a read on you except for the N0 gambit which is null. You should lead by example, right now it looks like you're using the "coaching" style to avoid giving information on yourself or truly make pushes on if someone is scum or town yet still look active. I want to know what you think about the game so far, pretending you're the only person "driving this" is ridiculous, you haven't made a single push or really done much other then say "good job!" to people or liking their posts even if you clearly disagree with what they said. That's great and all, but at some point you have to play too

I've been the most active player in the game thus far.
I've stated firmly that Omar is my highest scum target.
I've played actively by using the false claim to bait reactions, and look at how much more we have right now than we would after typical RVS shenanigans.
It's nonsense that I've actively avoided giving people a chance to get a read on me. My word count is by far the highest. My post count is the 2nd highest (even if you count triple posting within minutes rather than putting a post together before hitting "Post Reply")

Post counts:
ShinySkarmory - 6
SwordMaster - 0
Maven89 - 8
Lolazerz - 4
Spak - 18
Omar_25 - 10
Dastrn - 11

I left out Sword Master's only post, which was "I will post later", as well as 2 posts made as apologies to mods for editing, neither of which had any game play contained.

Yes, I'll be keeping track like this long-term. I usually do.

@ JayTheUnseen Requesting prod on @Sword Master . 0 contribution so far.

Maven, I've asked more questions of other people than you have, and given more answers. You're barking up the exact wrong tree if you want to be critical about someone giving people a chance to read them, or asking others for their reads, or asking others to simply interact with one another. You even posted that you liked what I was doing...well, sort of. Let's take a look:

On Dastrn in general, I really like his posts, I find them very intelligent and don't see him posting anything scummy. But I'm not getting a gut-town read on him. He's posted a lot but hasn't really taken any hard stance so far in the game, and instead seems to be taking on an almost parental role explaining certain concepts and helping people out, something that's great and I want him to continue it, but at the same point I can't help but me suspicious when I see an intelligent person coaching so many players. Town lean

These are your words. I have a question about them. Please see the bold above.

I'll use your words from the same post to ask my question.

Why did you change your mind? What changed?

 

[JayTheUnseen]

@Sword Master receives a prod.

Remember that if you do not have time to play the game, another user can replace in to your player slot.
Please, notify me if this is the case.

 

[Maven89]

Do you not know what "gut" means in this game? It means initial and sudden reaction to a post. I did not get a sudden and initial town read on your posts. They were nothing, null. So I had to stop and think both ways to decide that you were likely town. I asked for more information on you because I felt you were lacking in relevant content, you made multiple large posts but they're almost entirely devoted to minute meta details about the game that aren't relevant to any slot but your own, and even then a debate about RVS is not a debate about if someone is scum or not or even helpful since thinking RVS has/doesn't have merit is irrelevant to if the person is scum or not. So I asked you for more information, you refused, I asked again, you made a large post detailing just how much better you are at this game then everyone else by listing post counts. Awesome. High five. If Omar is town who is your primary suspect? What chance do you put me at scum?

 

[Maven89]

@ Omar_25
@ Spak
@ lolazerz
@ shinyskarmory
@Sword Master

Why do you think Dastrn won't post more about his scum reads? Why do you think I care?

 

[Dastrn]

Honestly, I disagree. It's best to go public with any suspicions you have as quickly as possible unless you have some sort of deeper game going on. That way, if you get killed or lynched and flip village, we'll at least know who had a reason to go after you. If you stay silent about your suspicions and get killed, your death tells us nothing.

Whether he is scum or town right now, I have no idea, but he was very actively pushing you towards pro-town behavior. If he's scum, he's doing it wrong. He doesn't seem dumb to me at all. He could have flipped the game on me, sided with you, and started a wagon that would have been hard to turn around if he was scum. He would have had you and his scum mate (assuming you wouldn't be his scum mate in this scenario). With 3 votes on me, on day 1, that's pretty much going to be a kill. Another wagon probably wouldn't have formed fast enough. He could have done it, and he didn't. All of that shows pro-town behavior to me.

Your response, though, with nothing else to base a scum read on, was to add Shinyskarmory to your scum list, here:

Ok, here we go.

Dastrn is not who he says he is. He's most likely a french fry or a hamburger. In the case that Dastrn is a french fry, there's also a chance that Spak could be a french fry. Those two (and shinyskarmory) are the most suspicious to me. These are just guesses so far so take them with a grain of salt (lol).

I don't know if I'm exactly thinking straight at the moment since it's like 10 PM over here and I'm tired, but hey at least it's something.

Throwing in that qualifier at the end is nothing but a "don't blame me if this goes wrong" line so you can say you were being soft from the start and other people were the ones who wagoned, not you.

These are my biggest reasons for voting you right now.

Vote: @ Omar_25

In addition, your flip is going to give us good information. But only if the rest of this group gets more active, and I mean with each other, not just with you.

 

[Dastrn]

Do you not know what "gut" means in this game? It means initial and sudden reaction to a post. I did not get a sudden and initial town read on your posts. They were nothing, null. So I had to stop and think both ways to decide that you were likely town. I asked for more information on you because I felt you were lacking in relevant content, you made multiple large posts but they're almost entirely devoted to minute meta details about the game that aren't relevant to any slot but your own, and even then a debate about RVS is not a debate about if someone is scum or not or even helpful since thinking RVS has/doesn't have merit is irrelevant to if the person is scum or not. So I asked you for more information, you refused, I asked again, you made a large post detailing just how much better you are at this game then everyone else by listing post counts. Awesome. High five. If Omar is town who is your primary suspect? What chance do you put me at scum?

Lol, if you read that post as me detailing how I'm better just by listing post counts then you have reading comprehension issues.

Omar is not town, in my opinion. I put a pretty low chance at you being scum. Your fixation on me is agitating because it's not pro-town behavior because it's an excuse for 5 other players to coast as they watch and wait for me to answer everything, and it keeps the day about me and omar only, but everything else I'm reading on you IS pro-town behavior, so I'm chalking it up to "you don't like my playstyle much" and think I'm dodging you. I swear that if people would also answer your questions so this doesn't become 2 or 3 people playing for 7 then I'd be a lot happier giving out more.

I've already stated that I think if Omar flips scum, there's a good chance lolazerz is the other. And that if he flips town, there's a good chance lolazerz is town. Those are my only scum reads right now. everyone else is null or leaning town.
I've also already stated that I don't think posting our strong town reads on day 1 is a good pro-town play because it gives scum an easy hit list and lets them leave all the question marks on the table. So I don't want to give my whole list, and I've found it pretty hard to even GET reads on a few players, 1 of whom hasn't played at all yet, and another who has only made 4 posts.

This is all stuff that answers your questions to a fair extent, and is all generally stuff I've said already, but I'm restating it in one place, in case that helps.

Why is no one else interested in answering these questions, and why are you fixated on only getting answers from me about these 2 questions?

 

[Maven89]

Because you were the only one who said you weren't going to post relevant stuff anymore and I didn't like it

 

[Dastrn]

That line about reading comprehension was uncalled for. I was pissed about something IRL and got snappy. Sorry.

 

[Omar_25]

@ Omar_25
@ Spak
@ lolazerz
@ shinyskarmory
@Sword Master

Why do you think Dastrn won't post more about his scum reads? Why do you think I care?

Hasn't he already posted plenty about his suspicions?

 

[Maven89]

So what does that mean for me?

 

[Dastrn]

Because you were the only one who said you weren't going to post relevant stuff anymore and I didn't like it

I only said that I was expecting others to pick up the slack and contribute their opinions as well, not that I wasn't going to post relevant stuff anymore. I said explicitly that if 3 more people would answer the questions, that I would as well. All I was asking for was for half of the players in this game to be willing to participate more and then I'd continue.
Don't forget, I was saying that as the player with the 2nd highest post count, who created the most activity both directly and indirectly since the game began. I wasn't in need of catching up to the average. I was well above average in contribution and was just asking for others to keep this game at least half active.

Doesn't seem all that unreasonable of a request.

 

[Dastrn]

Hasn't he already posted plenty about his suspicions?

I don't think I've posted plenty. I think it's sad how little I've had to post to stay so far ahead of most of the game. In most games that are 5 days old, only having 16 (now 17) posts should not be up in the front of the pack in activity. We went almost 24 hours straight before I bumped the thread, and I didn't even count that bump in my post count.

Omar, let's start with you, since you're in the hot seat. Read back to Maven's 3 questions and answer them, please.

 

[Spak]

I answered two of the questions (although both of them were kinda mushed into one, which may have been too vague). If it was, you can just ask me to clarify.

Anyways, I don't understand why everyone assumes that having Omar as scum would pressure lolazerz. I re-read through and this is the post everyone seems to be referencing for the lolazer and Omar connection:

It could also be that Dastrn is looking very hard into any of Omar's posts just to find anything that could be seen as suspicious so he could make all of us think of Omar as un fry de french.

And I don't want anyone to think that I'm jumping to Omar's side on this post. If you'll scroll up a little bit you can see that I'm still suspicious of him for coming out with all of his thoughts right after someone telling him not to or he'll be a target. Maybe he did that because he can't be a target? And maybe Dastrn is just trying to find any shred of treachery inside of Omar's post.

TLDR: Dastrn really wants us to believe him, maybe so he could improve the general consensus about him. I'm not jumping to Omar's side with this, he's still pretty suspicious

Basically, the only thing that lolazers did in here was try to play devil's advocate for all of the Omar-based criticism and show a perspective that the rest of the town wasn't seeing. He wasn't proclaiming Omar's innocence (shown twice, first sentance of both the second and third paragraphs) and was attempting to stay neutral throughout the post. That said, it could be a bit suspicious that he said he's not siding with Omar twice since that could show anxiety that he might be related with Omar after this or him just clarifying that he isn't on Omar's side (either by associating with his scum buddy (assuming they are both scum) or being someone suspected of being scum (which would suggest that he would be scum if the association was to be made)).

Was there another post of lolazer's or Omar's closely associating the two of them that I'm missing?

 

[shinyskarmory]

@ Omar_25
@ Spak
@ lolazerz
@ shinyskarmory
@Sword Master

Why do you think Dastrn won't post more about his scum reads? Why do you think I care?

I think Dastrn's already posted plenty about his scum reads, even before his response to you-he thinks Omar is mafia and doesn't have any strong reads on anyone else because of a lack of information. TBH, he's probably right there. There's simply not enough information on most of the players in this game for anyone to claim more than a null read with confidence.

As of this moment, my opinions have shifted slightly. I'm starting to consider Maven's continued tunnel vision on dastrn to be a little bit scummy because he keeps throwing all these demands at dastrn for reads, thoughts, etc, all of which dastrn answers with "I don't have enough information to say yet". I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that because I'm in total agreement that 1. we need to try to be more active and 2. most of the posts that ARE here are very conservative, don't say or risk much, and don't try to find any new angles in the conversation. I understand that coming up with some new, original assertion in every post is hard (that's why I don't post very much, I tend to stay quiet unless I think I have quality content to add) but in general everyone needs to put themselves out there more. Remember, if you keep quiet on your suspicions and get killed, your knowledge helps absolutely nobody.

At the same time, dastrn, I think it's somewhat unfair to demand that the focus of the day be moved away from you when you brought it to yourself in the first place with the N0 cop thing. I agree that the way Maven is tunneling you is probably not pro-town, but I also can't say that it's entirely unjustified. I think both sides of this argument need to calm down and look at the argument from different angles, which we can do tomorrow.

---

Okay, so moving on from that specific response, we're coming down to the wire here on day 1. We have less than 2 IRL days left from the time of this writing to settle on a lynch target for today, and the rules seem to suggest that no majority = no lynch. As noted in this page on mafiascum's wiki, we will be in a potential game over scenario tomorrow in both a no-lynch (4v2, mislynch leads to 2v2 deadlock) and mislynch (3v2, obvious LYLO scenario).

I will not be able to be online for much of tomorrow, and will certainly not be able to be online for deadline on Thursday. I still believe that Omar is the best vote target for today, but I am willing to be persuaded otherwise (my read on Omar is not as strong as I would usually prefer but it's all we've really got right now). If you have another scum target, now is the time to speak up-by this time tomorrow I probably will not be able to change my vote to help the vote go through.

 

[Dastrn]

I disagree that Maven's tunnel vision is scummy. I'm boiling it down to just an irritation that he's asking for more than he's getting and he's pressuring further. I really don't get a scum vibe on any of his pressure. I could be wrong, since I've never played with any of you before (to my knowledge, none of you had accounts on smashboards when I last played), but that's what my gut is telling me.
I hear what you're saying about me inviting the focus on myself with my fake claim. It's not that I don't want any focus on myself. I obviously played a gambit that required you all to keep me in your line of fire, so I expected this. I'm just asking (like you seem to be) that other players step up and put themselves out there as well so we have more interactions for D2. And if they ALL are only relating to me or Omar, then we don't have any connections between the rest of the players to work with, and if we mislynch 2 days we are lost. If Omar and I are BOTH town, then the town will be wasting 2 days focused on townies and we're toast. That's why I'm asking for others to put themselves out there, and to do so in ways that not only include omar and I but also touch on each other's posts.

Omar is L-2 right now. It sounds like ShinySkarmory is willing to be vote 3 if we have a hammer, but I doubt he'll throw that vote willy-nilly if we don't get more going.

@ JayTheUnseen We've now been 5 days with no activity from @Sword Master . Please consider replacing him.

 

[Spak]

By the way,

Vote: Omar

I don't want to waste a lunch and seeing if Omar is Town or Scum will give us vital info. He also hasn't really posted much to defend himself in the past little bit, which is a bit odd for someone who has the possibility of being lynched. Now Skarms/lolazerz/Sword have the deciding vote.

 

[Spak]

*Lynch. Lynch autocorrected to lunch. This is why I don't like typing on mobile.

 

[Dastrn]

ShinySkarmory7
SwordMaster0
Maven12
Lolazerz4
Spak20
Omar11
Dastrn18

(includes this post, does not any posts not related to the game.)

Average post count including all 7 players is 10.28 posts per player.
Average post count excluding Sword Master is 12.

@ lolazerz , is there a reason you are massively behind average? Ignoring our non-player, you have posted 1/3 of the average. If you posted 6 reasonably full posts in a row right now, you'd still be below average. Why are you hiding? In most games, I advocate killing inactives on day 1, but since this is mini-mafia, we don't have as much room for error. You're general inactivity is anti-town behavior, and the fact that all you've really done is quasi-defend our primary target but make several statements to get yourself out of it being a defense just in case also looks scummy in case of a scum flip on Omar, who is now at L-1 after Spak's vote just now.

You need to get in the game if you expect to live through D2.

 

[Dastrn]

I'm sorry for the spacing above. When I pasted from my spreadsheet, it looked like it was going to format correctly. I'll be more careful.
For clarification, I removed trailing numbers from your names if you have any, so there is no confusion when vote counts follow your names.
I'm also not counting posts like THIS one, which has nothing to do with the actual game, but is simply a clarification. Nor am I counting posts like apologies to the mod for editing, my apology for being rude to Maven, or double posts to correct grammar/spelling in the 1st post.

I'm not allowed to communicate outside of this thread, so I can't share my spreadsheet with you, but if you want to know how I do it, let me know and I'll post the formulas and method so you can do the same in excel or google docs yourself. I've been using this system for a long time.

 

[Spak]

I'd have to agree that the lack of posts seems suspicious. His posting content is as follows:

1. Slight pressure on Mavin for leaving for a few days (theory on testing the waters before jumping in)
2. Saying that Omar coming out with all of suspicions makes him look guilty
3. Saying that Omar is being picked to pieces by Dastrn, more so than anyone else
4. Saying that I'm a town lean and he isn't sure about Omar

So far, he has one incriminating post. That wouldn't be such a big deal in most cases, but since that's 25% of his posts, it does seem a bit suspicious (because of his quietness). Care to speak up, lolazerz?

 

[Maven89]

Wait, Spak, are you voting him because you think he's scum or is it just an information lynch for you?

 

[Omar_25]

I have a feeling that I've dug my own grave with a lot of earlier posts. So there probably isn't that much I can do right now sadly.

 

[lolazerz]

ShinySkarmory7
SwordMaster0
Maven12
Lolazerz4
Spak20
Omar11
Dastrn18

(includes this post, does not any posts not related to the game.)

Average post count including all 7 players is 10.28 posts per player.
Average post count excluding Sword Master is 12.

@ lolazerz , is there a reason you are massively behind average? Ignoring our non-player, you have posted 1/3 of the average. If you posted 6 reasonably full posts in a row right now, you'd still be below average. Why are you hiding? In most games, I advocate killing inactives on day 1, but since this is mini-mafia, we don't have as much room for error. You're general inactivity is anti-town behavior, and the fact that all you've really done is quasi-defend our primary target but make several statements to get yourself out of it being a defense just in case also looks scummy in case of a scum flip on Omar, who is now at L-1 after Spak's vote just now.

You need to get in the game if you expect to live through D2.

Sorry I've been really busy lately because I had to move houses, still trying to stay active as much as I can though so I'll putt my thoughts out here I guess.

Anyways, I don't understand why everyone assumes that having Omar as scum would pressure lolazerz. I re-read through and this is the post everyone seems to be referencing for the lolazer and Omar connection:

Basically, the only thing that lolazers did in here was try to play devil's advocate for all of the Omar-based criticism and show a perspective that the rest of the town wasn't seeing. He wasn't proclaiming Omar's innocence (shown twice, first sentance of both the second and third paragraphs) and was attempting to stay neutral throughout the post. That said, it could be a bit suspicious that he said he's not siding with Omar twice since that could show anxiety that he might be related with Omar after this or him just clarifying that he isn't on Omar's side (either by associating with his scum buddy (assuming they are both scum) or being someone suspected of being scum (which would suggest that he would be scum if the association was to be made)).

Was there another post of lolazer's or Omar's closely associating the two of them that I'm missing?

I tried to stay neutral in that post but I do see how people could interpret that as me trying be really afraid of being associated with Omar. I was just trying to get across the point how it felt like Dastrn was kinda quickly and fairly harshly targeting Omar on what appeared to be loose claims. (the main one being he contradicted himself) It could just be the fact that Dastrn made a very long post and when you do that there's a lot more le-way for sub-text.

 

[Spak]

Wait, Spak, are you voting him because you think he's scum or is it just an information lynch for you?

He's definitely suspicious and Omar did dig his own grave with early posts, but seeing if he's town or not will be interesting. If he's actually town, it will turn a lot of people's theories on their heads. It'll be useful to see how people react to his lynch result and who gets killed by the French tonight. Basically, I think he's Scum, but we'll get useful info out of his lynch (if it happens).

 

[lolazerz]

I have a feeling that I've dug my own grave with a lot of earlier posts. So there probably isn't that much I can do right now sadly.

Yah there really isn't but you could at least give out your suspicions of who you think the fench frys are. Or you could tell us some last thoughts.

 

[lolazerz]

He's definitely suspicious and Omar did dig his own grave with early posts, but seeing if he's town or not will be interesting. If he's actually town, it will turn a lot of people's theories on their heads. It'll be useful to see how people react to his lynch result and who gets killed by the French tonight. Basically, I think he's Scum, but we'll get useful info out of his lynch (if it happens).

I'll admit if Omar flips Town it'd be real interesting especially givin how he's not defending himself right now. If Scum then really would anyone be surprised, he has been fairly suspiciouso. I guess I will end up voting on him

Vote: Omar

 

[Maven89]

That's a lynch, I wasn't going to vote him until later in the day but the rest of you can count me as voting for him

Remember that if Omar is town, and the mafia NK someone, a single wrong vote can get jumped on by the two mafia and lead to the end of the game, so hold off

I think Omar is scum, if he's scum my main suspect would be Lollazer, if he's town then I'd mainly look at Skarms, Spaks and Lolazer

Swordmaster should be replaced

 

[lolazerz]

I've already stated that I think if Omar flips scum, there's a good chance lolazerz is the other. And that if he flips town, there's a good chance lolazerz is town. Those are my only scum reads right now. everyone else is null or leaning town.

I'd like to know why you believe so strongly that i'm a salty deep fried potato?

 

[shinyskarmory]

Guys, just saying, we may have just hit majority. My vote was already on Omar IIRC unless we have to revote after each vote count.

 

[Maven89]

I originally thought we did but looking back only you, Spak and Lollazers are voting for him

I'll lynch him if no one else does before the deadline (unless Omar making a good defense), so there's no worry about getting a no-lynch

 

[lolazerz]

Guys, just saying, we may have just hit majority. My vote was already on Omar IIRC unless we have to revote after each vote count.

That makes majority
Omar, I think I can smell some salt on that coat of yours!

 

[lolazerz]

I originally thought we did but looking back only you, Spak and Lollazers are voting for him

I'll lynch him if no one else does before the deadline (unless Omar making a good defense), so there's no worry about getting a no-lynch

Seeing as he hasn't defended himself yet I doubt he will but who knows, he might?

 

[Spak]

I originally thought we did but looking back only you, Spak and Lollazers are voting for him

I'll lynch him if no one else does before the deadline (unless Omar making a good defense), so there's no worry about getting a no-lynch

Whether he is scum or town right now, I have no idea, but he was very actively pushing you towards pro-town behavior. If he's scum, he's doing it wrong. He doesn't seem dumb to me at all. He could have flipped the game on me, sided with you, and started a wagon that would have been hard to turn around if he was scum. He would have had you and his scum mate (assuming you wouldn't be his scum mate in this scenario). With 3 votes on me, on day 1, that's pretty much going to be a kill. Another wagon probably wouldn't have formed fast enough. He could have done it, and he didn't. All of that shows pro-town behavior to me.

Your response, though, with nothing else to base a scum read on, was to add Shinyskarmory to your scum list, here:


Throwing in that qualifier at the end is nothing but a "don't blame me if this goes wrong" line so you can say you were being soft from the start and other people were the ones who wagoned, not you.

These are my biggest reasons for voting you right now.

Vote: @ Omar_25

In addition, your flip is going to give us good information. But only if the rest of this group gets more active, and I mean with each other, not just with you.

Dastrn is also an Omar vote.

 

[Omar_25]

That makes majority
Omar, I think I can smell some salt on that coat of yours!

Is this new information to you?

 

[Maven89]

...are you saying Lolazers already knew you were scum?

 

[Omar_25]

...are you saying Lolazers already knew you were scum?

I'm saying that it isn't new information that I have the salt scent on me.

 

[lolazerz]

Is this new information to you?

Ha! Gotcha, that basically confirmed that you're a deep fried - son of an irishman