Sakurai oddly favored his characters in SSE...

[GreenKirby]

People aren't complaining because it's Kirby being overrepresented. People are complaining because it was very unprofessional of Sakurai to blatantly favor his own characters over others in an All-Star game.

Kirby deserved it, imo

Besides, I think that this will happen no matter who's the company or director.

Wasn't Kirby and Ness overpowered in the original because HAL made the game?

I wouldn't be surprised if Retro overrepresented Metroid if they got the rights for the next Smash game

Pokemon, when subtracting the lost of Mewtwo and Pichu, still gained four characters

@GreenKirby: Ganondorf never planned to overthrow Master Hand. Based on my knowledge of the idea of the character, Master Hand is the well-respected creator, pretty much the closest we'll get to a god in the Smash Brothers universe. It seemed to me that Ganondorf was quite willfully obeying Master Hand, only attacking when he discovered that it was not Master Hand's will he was following all along.

I thought the smirk when he bowed to MH was implying that he was gonna betray him. And of course, it's Ganondorf. Like he'll take orders. lol

 

[HeroMystic]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, DK, F-Zero, Metroid, Kirby, and Yoshi were greatly represented in the first two.

Something tells me you're a Kirby fan.

No one was over-represented in Smash64 and Melee. There wasn't even a storyline in those games. How the hell can any character be over-represented (besides the overuse of characters) in any game when there isn't even a storyline or events to do so?

And I like how people complain when this is Kirby's ONLY time that he's overrepresented. But NEVER EVER complain about Nintendo's love fetish of the Mario and Zelda series.

Yep, you're a Kirby fan. That means you love the over-rep right?

Also, see above as that also replies to your quote.

And I like how everyone ignores the other characters.

Diddy: Went through hell to save DK ala DKC2

Lucas: Actually went through character development

R.O.B.: Obvious reasons

Ganondorf: The one who planned to overthrow Master Hand

Your argument is automatically debunked when you take into account that all those characters were in subplots. Kirby, Metaknight, and King Dedede fully progressed the main storyline.

Only ROB played a huge role in SSE, and that was up until he became playable. After that, he was as important as a sheet of paper.

And your accusation of Ganondorf is plain wrong.

 

[Ilucamy]

Except Dark Matter isn't Sakurai's creation. Dark Matter/Zero/Zero Two are characters designed by Shinichi Shimomura.

Yeah, I know, but I got kinda off track and I was talking about the Kirby series in general, not Sakurai XD.

 

[GreenKirby]

Something tells me you're a Kirby fan.

No one was over-represented in Smash64 and Melee. There wasn't even a storyline in those games. How the hell can any character be over-represented (besides the overuse of characters) in any game when there isn't even a storyline or events to do so?

There was still underrepresentation.

Yep, you're a Kirby fan. That means you love the over-rep right?

Also, see above as that also replies to your quote.

So, just because Kirby was overrepresented that makes it bad? What if it was another series? Would you still complain? Just because you don't like the Kirby series doesn't mean squat? I guarantee that Nintendo Tokyo would have overrepresented with Mario characters

Your argument is automatically debunked when you take into account that all those characters were in subplots. Kirby, Metaknight, and King Dedede fully progressed the main storyline.

Only ROB played a huge role in SSE, and that was up until he became playable. After that, he was as important as a sheet of paper.

And your accusation of Ganondorf is plain wrong.

As for Ganondorf:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea17.html

"Ganondorf pretended to swear allegiance to Master Hand, all the while planning to usurp power from within. Bowser is relatively loyal to Master Hand, but he does not care for Ganondorf. Wario cares very little for the actual objective he was given and wants to continue just doing whatever he likes.

And of course, none of them know about Tabuu."

Whoops!

 

[FAILchion-]

Isn't Meta Knight usable in the SSE more than anyone else through your first walkthrough of it? About 3-4 levels are devoted to the Halberd. Not only that, but the levels on the Halberd were reminiscent to Meta Knight's Revenge in Kirby SuperStar. We hardly got any levels themed on each franchise's respective game, the exception being Zelda. I remember in a Zelda game, most likely the Oracle games, where what you did in one room affected the room adjacent to it. There were many other characters that should've had more screen time. And, he buffed the trio so they're no less than mid; we have 2 top tiers and 1 high tier, and Kirby, if I'm not mistaken, is slowly rising in the recent tier lists (I may be wrong about this, please correct me if I'm wrong).

Sakurai's bias is so obvious you could tell a mile away. And as usual, the Zelda group gets the shaft.

 

[HeroMystic]

There was still underrepresentation.

And I'm sure it was so obvious as the SSE because people were forced to play as other characters.

So, just because Kirby was overrepresented that makes it bad? What if it was another series? Would you still complain? Just because you don't like the Kirby series doesn't mean squat? I guarantee that Nintendo Tokyo would have overrepresented with Mario characters

I'm fine with the Kirby Series FYI, but the over-rep was blunt, stupid, and so obvious and clear you could cut in half with a knife.

And I'll be honest, if it was the Mario characters I wouldn't be complaining. In fact I would've been happy, but that doesn't make it right.

As for Ganondorf:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea17.html

"Ganondorf pretended to swear allegiance to Master Hand, all the while planning to usurp power from within. Bowser is relatively loyal to Master Hand, but he does not care for Ganondorf. Wario cares very little for the actual objective he was given and wants to continue just doing whatever he likes.

And of course, none of them know about Tabuu."

Whoops!

I'll give you that one then since it's from Suckurai himself. Too bad it has little to no compliments to your arguement.

And as usual, the Zelda group gets the shaft, as usual.

Agreed.

 

[Lord Exor]

GreenKirby, I'm a big Kirby fan myself; heck, Zero/Zero Two is my favorite Nintendo character. I just think Sakurai was a little too self-indulgent for a professional game designer of his caliber.

 

[Emperor Mario]

I'm a Kirby fan too, but I still hate the favoritism towards the Kirby characters. They shouldn't have let King Dedede "humiliate" Bowser like that.

 

[Karas]

i never Noticed that Favoritism, but that's pretty obvious and well, it should Have been Done, i mean whats a good Storyline without some Main characters. yeah i know its a all-star type game, but still.
1 thing, why kirby? i know hes bA but theres so many more cooler people, Like freaking Lucario.

 

[Emperor Mario]

Mario should have been the main hero. He's nintendo's flagship character

 

[SonicX580]

Hmm.. I thought something was weird in the storyline with kirby and his friends thanks for clearing it up.

 

[SonicX580]

I think Sonic and Mario should have had a bigger role in the storyline.

 

[urdailywater]

I'm glad Sonic didn't get a big role in the story tbh..

I wouldn't have liked him in the swimming parts of the game.. >.>


IMO Mario, Pokemon Trainer, or Toon Link should've been main character.


They've been around a long time..

And the only reason I say Toon Link is because he's been around WAY before regular Link came around. (WindWaker period and the 2d Link)

 

[marthmaster59]

the one where kirby slices bower and ganon's ship:he was favoring the DRAGOON,which is prettymuch that powerful in gameplay.And kirby is the only one who can ride the DRAGOON,i think.

 

[ungulateman]

Not to mention it is so awesome it can kill Captain Falcon.

 

[Lovely]

the one where kirby slices bower and ganon's ship:he was favoring the DRAGOON,which is prettymuch that powerful in gameplay.And kirby is the only one who can ride the DRAGOON,i think.

Fact is that only a Star Warrior with high caliber of power is worthy of riding that Dragoon Star, and that Star Warrior is Kirby. ;D

 

[Deoxys]

Metaknight

• Metaknight probably shares one of the most awesome cutscenes with Marth in SSE.
• The Halberd plays a huge role, despite there being many more and probably powerful ships.
• Also, the Halberd OWNED the Great Fox.

1. Metaknight shares one of the most awesome cutscenes with Marth because MK and Marth are by far the two most popular dedicated swordsmen in the game and so they fit the concept the best.

2. Name these "many more" ships? Which one of them could you imagine being more powerful? Halberd is MASSIVE, it's SO much bigger than the Great Fox, Samus's ship, and Olimar's ship.

3. It owned the Great Fox because it's so much bigger.

Sorry, I didn't read through the rest of the thread. These are just my comments.

Otherwise, yeah, Sakurai did.

 

[Sonic0101]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr-kqB-yZ20

Watch this and tell me that MK doesn't trip often

Anyways, I actually have no problem with Kirby or D3, but I HATE MetaKnight (he's just too good).

That's a slip, not a trip... he slipped on the banana skins Diddy threw...

 

[Mardyke]

2. Name these "many more" ships? Which one of them could you imagine being more powerful? Halberd is MASSIVE, it's SO much bigger than the Great Fox, Samus's ship, and Olimar's ship.

Bowser's airship armada. /argument.

3. It owned the Great Fox because it's so much bigger.[/quote] The Great Fox is so much BETTER, though. As are the arwings - Fox takes out things like the Halberd, and more powerful or bizarre than it, for breakfast. In Area 6 he shattered an entire armada of the buggers with his piloting skills. The Great Fox joined that fight too - it was strong enough to take enemy ships out in one hit.

And size didn't benefit the Halberd at all in its fights - sure its guns did, but what really did it were those bizarre shields which the Halberd doesn't have that can somehow withstand multiple shots from the Great Fox. <_<

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I know there is kirby favortism, but dont forget Pit plays a huge role too. Also, snake has the spotlight on halberd, and mario runs around with pit the whole game.

I think that Sakurai favored Pit too. In SSE he´s like some kind of messiah send from heavens to save the situation. Sure, he´s an angel but still. He also saves Mario, Yoshi and Link (if you rescue Zelda) and shoots down DDD´s machine. He also gets the moment where he faces lots of enemies all alone. He also has some "secrets" in the game: he talks when reflecting and occasionally when dying. Other one to have lots of those is Snake, but he is a thinrd party char, so it´s understandable that Sakurai favored him.

And he has the most annoying sounds and projectiles in the whole game.

 

[TheZizz]

Additionally, there was a scene with DDD and MK that was cut.

 

[toon_marth]

Its probably because he voiced D3...acting, it gets to your head...

 

[Saturnight]

just 1 kirby new stage =(

and no, sakurai didnt give major roles to his characters
...

kirby didnt have a cutscene where he destroyed tabuu alone

im surprised no one have mentioned that taboo have the same powers of Marx (kirby super star)

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I think the SSE was a bit of a let down, I just didn't like it because it was boring in general.

 

[§leepy God]

I think the SSE was a bit of a let down, I just didn't like it because it was boring in general.

I'm guessing it was too based on Kirby Super Star, (which rocked), but it wasn't good to merge with Smash though. I'm guessing most of the Kirby fans was glad abou that huh?

 

[HeroMystic]

^Indeed.

Btw TSO: Your sig is hawt.

 

[Waluigi911]

Y'know, Sakurai is more than entitled to indulge all he wants in his creations. He developed an original, winner system, gave birth to one of the greatest crossovers known to video gamers, and he accommodated his fans as much as he could without giving away secrets before the release. Before Brawl's English page, he updated Melee's Japanese page; including his fans of other countries was very dutiful of him.

If you ask, letting him indulge is the least we can give him, other than a percentage of the fifty bucks we shelled out for the game, of course. Y'all may know that Nintendo had intended to make a Brawl with online functionality for Brawl, but Sakurai didn't want his brainchild to be turned into a typical series of remakes. He jumped on board and fashioned it into a work of elaborate art. We got a story with cutscenes, online play, more characters, 3rd party elements, magnificent music selection, lengthy replay, ability to snapshot with the push of a button at any time, amazing graphics, creative stages, intuitive method of unlocking, and... well, the list goes on.

Ain't nothing wrong it, 'tis all.

 

[HeroMystic]

^Someone has a wedgie.

Read the first sentence, silly.

This isn't a bash thread. Just thought I found this interesting.

 

[Waluigi911]

Oops, silly me... *edits to make it sound nicer* :D

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yeah, I have respect for Sakurai. I haven´t complained about items, gameplay or whatnot, but I still think that he favored some characters more than others. It´s the fact. Even though I point out things that I don´t like doesn´t mean that I hate the thing. I just think it has its flaws.

 

[Vv2]

Kirby is globally one of the most recognized and oldest (largest demographic) one of the only heroes with a plot that could be easily tied into SSE...mario exist only to save peach..link the same...sonic has no plot he runs fast things go boom...fox is a fighter pilot...captain falcon drives a car..olimar is newer and has a smaller demographic...Leaving pikachu and i guess in a cuteness contest pikachu wins but still no plot... all the characters in kirby have that cute befuddled behavior and pride and kirby's plot is so easy to tie into ANYTHING watch the show.

 

[Snowstalker]

I've been playing Kirby games lately, and I've noticed that Galleom's attacks are oddly similar to those of the Kirby Super Star boss Heavy Lobster.

 

[Mardyke]

Kirby is globally one of the most recognized and oldest (largest demographic) one of the only heroes with a plot that could be easily tied into SSE...mario exist only to save peach..link the same...sonic has no plot he runs fast things go boom...fox is a fighter pilot...captain falcon drives a car..olimar is newer and has a smaller demographic...Leaving pikachu and i guess in a cuteness contest pikachu wins but still no plot... all the characters in kirby have that cute befuddled behavior and pride and kirby's plot is so easy to tie into ANYTHING watch the show.

I thought Mario and Link went about to save the world with rescuing the princess as almost an obligatory step that's part of that list. As for most globally recognised...you're pitting Kirby - a character I know I definitely never heard of before Super Smash Bros. - with Mario. SUPER MARIO. And saying that he's more worthy.

I would not consider the individual plots to be that important in deciding these things - otherwise, Ike would have hit Tabuu with [Radiant Dawn spoiler]

Spoiler

his godslaying prowess

, Fox would have just jumped in an arwing, Samus would have blown up all of Subspace and escaped within 6-5 minutes whilst fighting the mother of all final bosses, and so on and so forth. If we're going to have them all in, the goal should be to treat them as equally as possible, not one over the other.

I think another odd problem was the art style the game had chosen for itself. The odd characters felt too pink to be Mario, too weird to be Metroid, too inorganic to be Pokemon, too immature to be Fire Emblem/Zelda, etc. The only character who really felt at home fighting the Subspace characters was Kirby. Am I the only one who feels there was also some bias in the general artstyle of the enemies (not necessarily the environments, mind).

 

[HeroMystic]

^Actually, I will defend Kirby and say he was a quite popular character before Smash. Kirby Superstar for SNES did that. But of course he was nowhere near popular as Mario (or Link and Samus).

The artstyle wasn't "biased" persay. Sakurai just worked with what he knew. It's not really surprising the style generally referenced to Kirby. Even Master/Crazy Hand is well-referenced to Kirby Superstar as well.

 

[airsmasher]

Considering MK and Dedede are 2 of the best characters in Brawl, it's kinda obvious Sakurai plays favorites.

 

[Eight 52]

just 1 kirby new stage =(

and no, sakurai didnt give major roles to his characters
...

kirby didnt have a cutscene where he destroyed tabuu alone

im surprised no one have mentioned that taboo have the same powers of Marx (kirby super star)

Ridley has the same exact patterns as Dynablade.

 

[cHooKay]

I'm a Kirby fan too, but I still hate the favoritism towards the Kirby characters. They shouldn't have let King Dedede "humiliate" Bowser like that.

Never in my life has a cutscene ever made me so upset....

Seriously, was that really necesary? He couldn't even throw in an alternate cutscene for that?

And yeah, I also agree on the fact that if anyone has played a starfox game, you would know right away what Team Starfox is capable of. The Halberd should've have not owned the great fox, sakurai shouldn't have even placed the great fox in the game if he was intending on the great fox to get owned so badly. Arwings alone should've been more than enough to take down the halberd if team starfox owned countless of difficult dogfights against insane armadas.

 

[justaway12]

i didn't mind the story i especially liked the fact that you could either chose who beats who or the opponent's are outnumbered though i kind of didn't like the favoritism but i didn't mind until king DDD beat bowser by himself even though luigi and ness were right there behind him could have helped him if they had helped nobody would have been angry at that fight or at least less angry

 

[Dokutayuu]

Never in my life has a cutscene ever made me so upset....

Seriously, was that really necesary? He couldn't even throw in an alternate cutscene for that?

And yeah, I also agree on the fact that if anyone has played a starfox game, you would know right away what Team Starfox is capable of. The Halberd should've have not owned the great fox, sakurai shouldn't have even placed the great fox in the game if he was intending on the great fox to get owned so badly. Arwings alone should've been more than enough to take down the halberd if team starfox owned countless of difficult dogfights against insane armadas.

So true, I was under the impression that the Great Fox was better than that. I haven't even played a Star Fox game but I know they're pretty awesome pilots. Besides, in Kirby Superstar, Kirby broke the Halberd alone. A little inconsistent isn't it?

Plus, Link had such a minor role. Isn't he one of Nintendo's best selling characters? He did so very little plot-wise. Kirby is one of Nintendo's B-list characters, it'd make sense for the bigger characters to have better roles.

 

[Johnknight1]

Considering MK and Dedede are 2 of the best characters in Brawl, it's kinda obvious Sakurai plays favorites.

And considering how there's never been a space animal lower then mid tier... >_>

Yeah, so Sakurai's favorites goes:

Meta Knight > Space Animals > De3 > Kirby > Captain Falcon > the rest of the cast > Rick Wheeler.