Sakurai "aiming to make Super Smash Bros. best character game in the world"

[κomıc]

Melee had landing lag with certain characters. Brawl did too. And seemingly, Smash 4. Just because it the latest game has landing lag doesn't really mean much besides it is just another Smash Bros game.

And it being another Brawl isn't a bad thing either despite the fact that after playing it myself, it felt like its own game.

 

[Senario]

All I've seen from you are posts flying over your head.

Nothing goes over his head, his reflexes are too quick.

Obligatory guardians of the galaxy reference lol. And joke.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Of course it does, did people really think the game would change that much before release? Sakurai is a very stubborn man. People who actually played it extensively have all said its a faster Brawl with lots of landing lag and stun in certain places, but that still means its another Brawl.

Landing lag differs a lot, Marth's fair is the biggest thing people will point fingers at saying too much lag. But then you get things like Sheik's Fair in smash 4 having the same landing lag as her L-cancelled fair in Melee.

They are trying to make it power for some characters to have and others not to have on some aerials, rather than a universal. Which to me is probably a change for the better.

 

[Hydde]

But sheik{s fair is a nasty finisher!!.

why sakurai let her has that speedy and nasty finisher lagless, but on the other hand punishes marth that bad?

he is inconsistent

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

But sheik{s fair is a nasty finisher!!.

why sakurai let her has that speedy and nasty finisher lagless, but on the other hand punishes marth that bad?

he is inconsistent

Wow it's almost like different characters are supposed to have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

But sheik{s fair is a nasty finisher!!.

why sakurai let her has that speedy and nasty finisher lagless, but on the other hand punishes marth that bad?

he is inconsistent

Except that Marth's "laggy" FAir is also a powerful finisher when tippered. Plus, not every individual move is equivalent between characters. Every move should have its use (unless you're Little Mac with aerial attacks), but some characters are going to have strengths in certain areas. Keep in mind Sheik's FAir has very little reach compared to Marth's. And while Marth's FAir has hefty landing lag now, the same cannot be said of its endlag in the air. It seems to be pretty quick. The opposite seems to be true of Sheik's FAir, which it seems to me has always had plenty of aerial endlag.

 

[HeavyLobster]

But sheik{s fair is a nasty finisher!!.

why sakurai let her has that speedy and nasty finisher lagless, but on the other hand punishes marth that bad?

he is inconsistent

Thanks to Brawl stale move mechanics, Sheik players will have to choose between having Fair be a nasty finisher or an approach. Sheik has other low-lag aerials like Bair and Nair, and also has U-Smash as a finisher, so the strategic trade-offs Sheik players make in how they use Fair should be interesting.

 

[Renji64]

I like applying as much pressure as possible less lag helps me do that.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I like applying as much pressure as possible less lag helps me do that.

Then play Fox or Sheik. Easy enough. Not all characters use low-lag aerials for pressure.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Sakurai has created the best roster to Smash or any other game period. He's been overdoing it since .

 

[MajorMajora]

Guys, if we reduce all landing lag that seriously favors a certain type of gameplay strategy that much more. For all we know that might be a strategy that is still very successful in sm4sh and reducing land lag would make it far superior to all other strategies and created a more severe tier list.

Now, my conjecture is as good as yours, but I think Sakurai still has reasonable doubt on his side as things are.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Come on now... a lot of people want Mewtwo, OK I get that, but we can already make Pac-man, Sonic, Mega man and Mario fight each other.... Mewtwo does not compare to that.

He does to me. (and others too)

I appreciate the third parties, but I don't have as strong a connection to them as many others do. It's more of a "Hey cool, they're part of gaming history!" reaction rather than getting genuinely excited, at least for me. Does anyone else feel that way?

I think it goes without saying that Smash Bros is the best character fighting game around. Even without adding anyone I want it would still win comfortably.

This does make me hopeful that there will be more exciting surprises on the way though.

 

[Tagxy]

And only two of the five actually used it in said EVO this year, which (once again) isn't all that bad than it sounds. WHOBOs banned MK, so that doesn't count too much. SKTAR 3 is probably the only national that isn't MK heavy, but previous SKTAR slightly was (fortunately, not too many at top 8). I'm not saying things haven't gotten better for either game, but it still is what it is.

Hungrybox used his falco at some point, it wasnt overbearing but spacies had a sizable showing at evo. SKTAR 3 - ICs; Apex 2013 - MK; SKTAR 2 - Diddy; Apex 2013 - ZSS. Also, the people below the top 5 that are up and coming are heavily spacie mains (Colbol, Fictn, Lffn, Hax, Wstballz, Lucky, Silent Wolf, SFAT; vs. Ax, Amsa, PPU, Fly.) Im not trying to say melee imbalance makes the game suck or anything since I dont think its bad and it only occurs at a certain level. Plus as others said its better than other popular games.

To my point, Smash's mascot fighter theme really isn't for an expanded audience. It appeals to a specific gamer demographic that yes, they want a bigger portion of.


Children are not the only potential new audience, but they are the primary group Sakurai is referring to when justifying his design decisions to ease in new players. Think about it, Megaman, Punchout, and even Pacman are difficult games by today's standards. They're not the group that needs hand-holding, not that Smash has ever required much in the first place.

Actually a smash mascot fighter hits an expanded audience more and more. Remember Nintendo is only about 30~ years old and its systems have the most iconic characters. Given how people are playing games more now, the older people get the more this applies. Compared to comics or disney its different because those have been around for the full span of peoples lives. The characters become more iconic over time.

 

[Networker1]

I was going to post a long essay paper on character balance in the past to iterations of smash, including complex graphs and a mountain of statistics, including everything from all the major tournaments and how the character variation differs from other popular fighting games... but then I remembered how off topic and pointless that would be and decided to simply say how exited I am for being able to play as MegaMan, and that I can continue hoping my other requested newcomers make the cut.

 

[The Slayer]

To be fair, Street Fighter is really the only game I've seen more balanced in comp play than Smash in terms of variety.

There are a lot of games much much worse off than smash is.

Right, right. Just don't want it to see it as an obvious bait for that thought process. But I'm still keeping a slightly neutral grip on this game.

Hungrybox used his falco at some point, it wasnt overbearing but spacies had a sizable showing at evo. SKTAR 3 - ICs; Apex 2013 - MK; SKTAR 2 - Diddy; Apex 2013 - ZSS. Also, the people below the top 5 that are up and coming are heavily spacie mains (Colbol, Fictn, Lffn, Hax, Wstballz, Lucky, Silent Wolf, SFAT; vs. Ax, Amsa, PPU, Fly.) Im not trying to say melee imbalance makes the game suck or anything since I dont think its bad and it only occurs at a certain level. Plus as others said its better than other popular games.

Oh, I didn't say they were non-existent in EVO, more or less of the top players there have them as "mains" going up. However, it was probably not the best option near the finals due to soft counters.

 

[Wegenbarth]

But sheik{s fair is a nasty finisher!!.

Not in Smash4, bro. Its a combo move there with low knockback.

 

[BluePikmin11]

With future inclusions like Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt Dog, Shulk, Dr. Mario, and Chorus Men, Sakurai is really doing his best to make it the best character game possible, inclusions ranging from the iconic to the best-received games in Nintendo's history.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

With future inclusions like Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt Dog, Shulk, Dr. Mario, and Chorus Men, Sakurai is really doing his best to make it the best character game possible, inclusions ranging from the iconic to the best-received games in Nintendo's history.

If that leak is confirmed legit (Bowser Jr. in the Koopa Klown Kar as a playable character), then Smash 4 is going to have an amazing roster.

 

[JV5Chris]

Actually a smash mascot fighter hits an expanded audience more and more. Remember Nintendo is only about 30~ years old and its systems have the most iconic characters. Given how people are playing games more now, the older people get the more this applies. Compared to comics or disney its different because those have been around for the full span of peoples lives. The characters become more iconic over time.

Again, these are video game characters that appeal to a gamer audience perfectly capable of playing any Smash game with ease. It's that younger generation that may be new to Nintendo or console gaming in general that Sakurai has a strong interest in designing Smash to accommodate for. I bet he's witnessed a lot of kids over the years getting frustrated loosing to more seasoned players. Of course it's a lot harder for children to process loosing in the first place (and man childs for that matter, haha).

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

If that leak is confirmed legit (Bowser Jr. in the Koopa Klown Kar as a playable character), then Smash 4 is going to have an amazing roster.

I would literally cry tears of joy if Bowser Jr. were revealed.

 

[Devil G.]

Wow it's almost like different characters are supposed to have different strengths and weaknesses.

INCONCEIVABLE!

 

[Johnknight1]

I would really like to know what Sakurai himself consider what a party game to be. What features does he think define a party game and then I would like him to define what features prevent a game to be labeled as a party game.

I think I got this.

To Sakurai, a party game is a game that "causes or helps keep going a party, and is fun to play no matter what" based on how Sakurai says it. I think that's an accurate statement. I've never seen anyone have more of a party playing Smash than one Joseph Marquez, aka Mango. Heck, I consider Smash tournaments to just be giant parties.

I think given Sakurai's loving saying of a "party game" being something any level of player can enjoy without feeling bored fits that description, and I'm totally okay with this.

However, I wish he'd explain it more on a more regular basis when he says "party game". Like I said earlier, different words have different meanings to different people for different reasons. If you fully explain yourself, you won't have that translation issues (except with, well, the actual language translation!).

 

[Tristan_win]

Thanks to Brawl stale move mechanics, Sheik players will have to choose between having Fair be a nasty finisher or an approach. Sheik has other low-lag aerials like Bair and Nair, and also has U-Smash as a finisher, so the strategic trade-offs Sheik players make in how they use Fair should be interesting.

~Bursts through the wall at the mere sound of Sheik talk ~

Hmm, I don't think Sheik's will be saving it for killing as recent videos have shown what little knock back the fair did have in Brawl is now gone and it's looking to be just a combo move. Although this doesn't mean people still wont try make it stale as there could be a lot of potential for the move to combo into it's self so something like when Sheik jump off stage to edge guard she could do Fair, Fair, raising Nair or when onstage platform drop Fair, jump Fair into ~shrugs~ profit. The more stale the move is the higher percentages it will be able to combo, the higher the percentage the more time Sheik will be able to dominate before her short comings becoming obvious.

Now the REAL question is can someone even juggle Ftilt staling, Fair staling and keep percentage based characters specific combo's in mind while not getting mentally ***** by their opponents mindgames.... I don't think it's possible so maybe Sheik's will have to decide which move they are going to purposing stale or just go with the flow when one of them do get stale and stick with it.

 

[Johnknight1]

Landing lag differs a lot, Marth's fair is the biggest thing people will point fingers at saying too much lag. But then you get things like Sheik's Fair in smash 4 having the same landing lag as her L-cancelled fair in Melee.

They are trying to make it power for some characters to have and others not to have on some aerials, rather than a universal. Which to me is probably a change for the better.

The changes are better overall. However, Z-Airs are insanely broken. Literally they got barely any lag, they can combo into anything, and they cover a ton of range. Even without the landing, they don't have a lot of lag on them.

Thanks to Brawl stale move mechanics, Sheik players will have to choose between having Fair be a nasty finisher or an approach. Sheik has other low-lag aerials like Bair and Nair, and also has U-Smash as a finisher, so the strategic trade-offs Sheik players make in how they use Fair should be interesting.

It's a mechanic that was inspired by the same mechanic in Smash 64 (although taken more extreme, IMO mostly for the better).

The only game that didn't have stale move mechanics was Melee, and honestly, that fits Melee the best. The stale move mechanics in each smash game are one of several things that are always amazingly made for each specific game.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I feel like people are mad over things such as Marth's laggy F-Air because they think that the same combos should be kept throughout each game. Marth is obviously going to play differently than before if they're giving him different landing lags and such, so he'll have a different meta.

 

[JV5Chris]

Melee does have stale moves, it's just not as apparent.

I get the feeling that stale moves for Sheik in Smash 4 are going to be the icing ontop of the cake.

 

[Tristan_win]

The changes are better overall. However, Z-Airs are insanely broken. Literally they got barely any lag, they can combo into anything, and they cover a ton of range. Even without the landing, they don't have a lot of lag on them.

It's a mechanic that was inspired by the same mechanic in Smash 64 (although taken more extreme, IMO mostly for the better).

The only game that didn't have stale move mechanics was Melee, and honestly, that fits Melee the best. The stale move mechanics in each smash game are one of several things that are always amazingly made for each specific game.

Hey before I say anything let me just say I like your response to my earlier post... It has a very positive outlook that I don't have for Sakurai =)

Anyways Melee did in fact have stale moves too, it just wasn't a big deal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OgCDwvLO8

I feel like people are mad over things such as Marth's laggy F-Air because they think that the same combos should be kept throughout each game. Marth is obviously going to play differently than before if they're giving him different landing lags and such, so he'll have a different meta.

Change is scary.

It's one thing to change a few properties of moves or to nerf/buff a character but it's completely different when you change the fighting style of that said character. It really isolate dedicated Marth mains and in a way it's like Marth isn't going to be in smash4.

edit: ****, double post. I'm sorry mods t.t I swear this is my first in possibly 3+ years.

 

[Johnknight1]

Melee does have stale moves, it's just not as apparent.

I get the feeling that stale moves for Sheik in Smash 4 are going to be the icing ontop of the cake.

I'm pretty sure knockback was minimal at best with Melee's stale moves; it was mostly the damage % that changes.

Shoot I forget the specific terms for it!

I feel like people are mad over things such as Marth's laggy F-Air because they think that the same combos should be kept throughout each game. Marth is obviously going to play differently than before if they're giving him different landing lags and such, so he'll have a different meta.

The problem with Marth is that combo was so cool in Melee and kinda cool in Brawl. The Ken combo is one of the most exciting combos to watch be performed in any fighting game. It's fierce technical and the kind of reads you need to get it make it to where it's not cheap, either.

As for the changes to Marth, I dunno, but changing Marth's entire style to a more counter-striking style wasn't a popular move. That's why all the top Melee Marth players (PPU, PPMD, KDJ, Ken) and the Brawl Marth main (Mike HAZE) trashed Marth in Smash 4, with the exception of M2K, who was mixed at best.

Of course, making Lucina basically the previous build of Marth fixes any potential issues with this. A similar thing was done with Fox in 64 to Melee via Falco absorbing the bulk of Fox in 64's style (while Fox essentially became a newcomer).

However, if this happens with an established popular character (in terms of how they play) like Captain Falcon, there is backlash. That's exactly what happened with Captain Falcon in Brawl, actually.

 

[StarLight42]

Of course it does, did people really think the game would change that much before release? Sakurai is a very stubborn man. People who actually played it extensively have all said its a faster Brawl with lots of landing lag and stun in certain places, but that still means its another Brawl.

I'd rather stay optimistic about it.

 

[Johnknight1]

The only tomfoolery I'm seeing is in your posts. Tripping in Brawl somehow makes it no longer a video game? Do you honestly realize how idiotic that sounds? Next thing, you'll be telling me that I'm not an actual person, that these words are magically typing themselves!

Can't believe you took that entirely seriously... >.>

What you didn't get is that it's a mechanic that takes control away from the player of their character (aka the only thing they control), thus based on that and the purpose of fighting games and platformers it is literally a way of not making it a game.

If all you ever did in Brawl was lose control of your character like you did in trip to where you didn't play the game, it wouldn't even be a video game.

His words, not mine. And based on his previous posts, it seems pretty obvious to me that he meant it literally.

No, what I was explaining is tripping is an example of that, not that it makes Brawl literally unplayable. It should also be obvious I'm being smarky. You don't have to be so negative with reading everything I read.

Tripping only had a 1% chance of happening and only when trying to dash did that factor come into play.

There are no universal percentages on tripping. People get different percentages just about every time they try to figure it out.

Instead of complaining about it making the game "less fun", why not factor it into your strategy? If you know there's a random chance of tripping when you dash, don't dash as much or anticipate the trip. It's the same principle with items, you use them to your advantage or learn to anticipate them.

In other words camp often and hard, which most competitors, viewer, streamers, TO's, etc. find boring, and leads to games taking forever, which means the game would take up a huge amounts of time, which is a big reason why campy fighting games have troubles getting into major fighting game tournaments.

That kind of camping is what items and tripping being on tends to promote in competitive play. Tripping was one of many things put into Brawl to prevent it from being a competitive game. Ironic since Brawl was competitive nonetheless. It also's ironic since it makes Brawl competitively so much less enjoyable to such a degree that all major tournaments for Brawl remove tripping via mods.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Change is scary.

It's one thing to change a few properties of moves or to nerf/buff a character but it's completely different when you change the fighting style of that said character. It really isolate dedicated Marth mains and in a way it's like Marth isn't going to be in smash4.

edit: ****, double post. I'm sorry mods t.t I swear this is my first in possibly 3+ years.

I mean, it could be a completely different Smash Bros. game if quite a few changes are made to veterans, to the point where they don't play too similar to previous versions of characters. I'm sure people would be mad about it, for a long time... but it'd be exciting to watch the meta grow. Maybe I'm one of those strange people who enjoys change. Lots of it.

 

[Johnknight1]

Fortunately, Brawl is one of the greatest video games of all time, despite what some people on this forum think.

If you think it's "one of the greatest games of all time" I'm not going to tell you otherwise, but to say it like it's a fact (and saying other people's opinions are wrong) is simply not accurate, especially since you provided no proof as to why you are right and so many other people are wrong.

Well, Brawl did get a lot of perfect scores from various media. That includes Famitsu, a magazine known for only giving a select few games that status. For comparison, Melee got a 37/40 and the original got 31/40. From everything we've seen, I feel confident Smash 4 will pull it off.

Famitsu is possibly the worst source ever for gaming. They gave Final Fantasy XIII (aka "line: the game!" and "angry goth girl with no personality: the game!") the same score as Chrono Trigger (the game most RPG polls that are legitimately made and well constructed say is the best RPG ever made, as well as possibly the best game ever made).

Famitsu has other awful examples too.

But alas, "game rankings" don't matter that much, and aren't "proof" a game is good. The only thing that matters is how good the game is, specifically in how fun it is to play.

I can't tell you how many games I own with a 90 something Metacritic score (aka "pay to score higher" rankings) that are just subpar games while I have 70 something Metacritic score games that are just so incredibly well made.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

The problem with Marth is that combo was so cool in Melee and kinda cool in Brawl. The Ken combo is one of the most exciting combos to watch be performed in any fighting game. It's fierce technical and the kind of reads you need to get it make it to where it's not cheap, either.

Of course, making Lucina basically the previous build of Marth fixes any potential issues with this. A similar thing was done with Fox in 64 to Melee via Falco absorbing the bulk of Fox in 64's style (while Fox essentially became a newcomer).

I dunno, Ken Comboing is such bread and butter Marth stuff nowadays that I don't get excited when I see it. I like being surprised I guess, as a viewer anyway, as a player I'll take whatever I can get. When I see unusual and creative ways of transitioning into Fsmash or Dair like this

that's when I get hyped.

For what it's worth, I find it hard to believe that Lucina will satisfy old Marth mains. Her lack of a tip-sweetspot inherently makes her have a very different playstyle to both incarnations of "old Marth".

 

[JV5Chris]

I feel like people are mad over things such as Marth's laggy F-Air because they think that the same combos should be kept throughout each game. Marth is obviously going to play differently than before if they're giving him different landing lags and such, so he'll have a different meta.

It might no longer be possible to perform the Ken combo, unless of course you "believe", according to Gimpyfish .

That's the Marth player equivalent to gimping Captain Falcon's knee. Well not quite to that level, but it's up there. When a move or combo synonymous with a fighter is removed, of course people will be disappointed. It's dropping part of their character appeal established through gameplay. This revision of his moveset just makes Marth look a lot more vanilla and less eventful to play as IMO.

 

[κomıc]

You know, I'd love to hear people who play other fighting games like Tekken, Street Fighter and others have to say. Because if I remember correctly, characters in those games get as much changes the characters do in Smash Bros if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Tristan_win]

I mean, it could be a completely different Smash Bros. game if quite a few changes are made to veterans, to the point where they don't play too similar to previous versions of characters. I'm sure people would be mad about it, for a long time... but it'd be exciting to watch the meta grow. Maybe I'm one of those strange people who enjoys change. Lots of it.

Nah your not weird, I was the same way with Brawl.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into your smashboards join date but part of the reason you might be thinking this is because you haven't been part of the community for very long. Like I played Melee 'competitive' (I sucked) for two years before Brawl came out and while most hated how Sheik came out in Brawl I was excited for a lot of her changes. You might think the way you do party because you haven't taken to 'own' a character as much as some people. Your new blood and like all new blood you want to see change, you want new and exciting things to happen in your lifetime with the game not something that happen like 6 or fricken 13 years ago.
It's like watching a show just when it's coming out, every episode is new and exciting and no one knows what's going to happen next. Sure binge watching the whole series years after it come out can be rewarding in it's own way but it's never as exciting as when your friend and you are eagerly waiting for episode as each have almost unlimited potential...not a already know lack of..

It's just that some older smashers don't like it, we like what we already have and have grown content. It doesn't help either that Marth has be so far constantly good in smash and now with his changes some people like myself are worried about how he will fair(THE PUNS) in smash4.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Nah your not weird, I was the same way with Brawl.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into your smashboards join date but part of the reason you might be thinking this is because you haven't been part of the community for very long. Like I played Melee 'competitive' (I sucked) for two years before Brawl came out and while most hated how Sheik came out in Brawl I was excited for a lot of her changes. You might think the way you do party because you haven't taken to 'own' a character as much as some people. Your new blood and like all new blood you want to see change, you want new and exciting things to happen in your lifetime with the game not something that happen like 6 or fricken 13 years ago.
It's like watching a show just when it's coming out, every episode is new and exciting and no one knows what's going to happen next. Sure binge watching the whole series years after it come out can be rewarding in it's own way but it's never as exciting as when your friend and you are eagerly waiting for episode as each have almost unlimited potential...not a already know lack of..

It's just that some older smashers don't like it, we like what we already have and have grown content. It doesn't help either that Marth has be so far constantly good in smash and now with his changes some people like myself are worried about how he will fair(THE PUNS) in smash4.

Oh, haha. I've been lurking the forums for around four years before I finally joined, lol. While I was never much of a competitive Melee player, I got more into competitive Smash Bros. when Brawl came out. I mostly used Ness in Melee and Zero Suit in Brawl. When I went onward to Brawl, I was a bit disappointed to see that Ness didn't fit my play style anymore and wasn't that great in general, but I just decided I'd find a new main. I personally don't like to stick to the same main when a new Smash Bros. games comes out, and probably never will completely stick to a main until Sakurai becomes so biased he decides to make Kirby viable in all Smash Bros. games. I love seeing veterans change, as I can try and learn them and play them similar to a new character. Such as, I'm very familiar with both Melee and Brawl's versions of Pikachu, but overall prefer Brawl Pikachu. It's exciting to try out veterans that are being changed, even if it's slight, such as Kirby (<3), Yoshi, Link, and Peach or characters that received major overhauls such as ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Pit,and Bowser. It may just be me, but one of the most exciting things about Smash 4 is that pretty much all the veterans are getting moveset changes. I'm sure I'm not the best to be saying this, as the only characters I've truly learned are Kirby (all games), Pikachu (all games) Ness (Melee, Project M) and ZSS (Brawl), which is barely anything compared to the people who main over half the roster, which seems to be quite a lot of people.

 

[pizzapie7]

This is incorrect. Keeping in mind that tripping was added to complement its competitive aspects and not platforming. Chance is a prominent (and likely essential) part of competition. Peeps who get rustled about things like 'luck' like to measure things such as "percieved skill" instead of victories and make excuses for losses. A very strong argument could be made that true competition always includes elements of chance.

That being said, tripping was bad game design. You dont need to introduce chance into the game or if you do it could be done in a much more fun/appealing way (i.e. peach turnips). But it doesnt strongly affect the games competitive viability. Anyways, I would say in this case your statements on tripping are mostly incorrect.

As master roshi says, "Luck and strength go hand in hand"

I agree that most talk about how tripping ruins Brawl competitively is overblown and in practice that it's no big deal. I just hate when people act like Sakurai is a saint for removing something that is objectively bad game design. Like what, he was going to purposely keep something that awful in the game? Surely he's better than that.

 

[Shiliski]

You know, I'd love to hear people who play other fighting games like Tekken, Street Fighter and others have to say. Because if I remember correctly, characters in those games get as much changes the characters do in Smash Bros if I'm not mistaken.

BlazBlue will change entire across-the-board mechanics (mostly guard mechanics) and there were big differences between CT and CS for some characters in how their mechanics and moves work. I never played the latest one (Chrono Phantasma) but again it had big mechanical changes. I don't know about how vets were treated though.

IIRC, Soul Calibur 2's Nightmare became Soul Calibur 3's Siegfried while SC3's Nightmare was... something of a juggling character? I forget. Cassandra was also supposed to be a "new" version of Sophitia in SC2, though Sophitia was an unlockable.

So yeah, characters do typically undergo pretty big changes between installments, sometimes because there were issues with those characters in previous versions, and sometimes because they just want to do something new with the character.

 

[Nielicus]

He does to me. (and others too)

I appreciate the third parties, but I don't have as strong a connection to them as many others do. It's more of a "Hey cool, they're part of gaming history!" reaction rather than getting genuinely excited, at least for me. Does anyone else feel that way?

I think it goes without saying that Smash Bros is the best character fighting game around. Even without adding anyone I want it would still win comfortably.

This does make me hopeful that there will be more exciting surprises on the way though.

I think people are missing what I'm saying, I'm not saying Mewtwos return to smash won't be spectacular and wasn't wanted by a huge majority of the fanbase including my self, I'm saying the likes of the current 3rd parties are much more iconic.

Sonic, Mega Man and Pacmans status as characters are much higher than Mewtwos, even a fan can't argue that. Pac, Sonic and Megaman all made Sakurai reach his goal, Mewtwo is an added bonus like say, Palutena, Greninja etc.