Ryker Mafia Is Over: Ryker Always Wins

[#HBC | J]

Dabunz and J have both claimed VT this game and that's it.

 

[Gova]

2. dtjglyphmoney ()
3. AM ()
4. The Account With No Name (1) J
7. Inferno ()
8. Circus ()
9. Dabunz (1) AM
10. J ()
13. Gheb ()

Not voting - Circus, Gheb, Inferno, dabuz, TAWNN, Glyph

With 8 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is set for May 8th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[vanderzant]

Go town!!!

 

[Circus]

Thanks, J.

Now, my understanding is that Gheb replaced Swiss, but where did Inferno and Red Ryu come from? Looking at the full playerlist, I assume they're replacements for Allegory and JTB, but I don't know which is which.

 

[Dabuz]

Damn it's been a long night phase, I gotta re-read hard.

RR=JTB replacement

Inferno=Allegory replacement.

 

[Dabuz]

@Gova: May want to look at that vote count, S-Tier isn't in the game anymore.(?)

 

[The Account With No Name]

Dabuz:

Tunneling S-Tier this whole game isn't scummy "Per Se" to me; I've been doing the same thing. S-Tier is my biggest scum read so it actually makes J look good to me.

1: What does this do to your J read?
2: Was the dreamer claim all you lynched S-tier for, or did you have other unspoken reasons?
3: Are you scum?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

After reading through Day 3 a couple of times the one question that kept popping up in my head was why Inferno was almost completely left out of the discussion. Is he cleared or any particular reason nobody has looked at him as potential scum?

The problem I see that people have is that they are bugged by each other trying to make the game more about themselves than about finding scum. Was Zen lynched because he was actually scummy or because he tried to make everything about himself? Tbh I think it's the latter. That's not to say he shouldn't have been lynched ... I doubt town could've kept being successful with him around. Still I'm not sure how much of it is somebody just being idiosyncratic and how much of it being unable to accept other people's idiosyncracies. I think it would be easier if the one half wouldn't try to make themselves look like they were something special [Zen, Dabuz @L-1, et cetera] and if the other half wouldn't be so damn ******** about confusing "idiosyncratic", "stupid" and "scummy".

I'd like to hear much more opinions on Inferno and why he's on nobody's radar. PoE doesn't count because as far as I can see most people are either suspicious of J or dabuz or of both. That still leaves room for Inferno as #3 but he never pops up. Why?

AM, J, TAWNN tell me your thoughts about Inferno.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And to make this clear: I think both of yesterDay's main cases [AM -> dabuz and Zapp -> J] have enough merit to justify either player's lynch.

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz:

1: What does this do to your J read?
2: Was the dreamer claim all you lynched S-tier for, or did you have other unspoken reasons?
3: Are you scum?

I'll get back to you on my J read. I really want to re-read before saying anything.

IDK why you ask this question, I'm pretty sure I kept bringing up reasons for why I believed S-Tier to be scum this whole game. The dreamer claim just added to the scummy things about the slot. Not sure if you are asking this question just for the sake of having a question or because you aren't reading my posts :x

Nice filler question bro.

 

[Circus]

Making an attempt to read this game more thoroughly. I support a more in-depth look at Inferno. Nowhere near done reading, but early thoughts based on what I've gotten through so far and what I know about flips make me think scum is going to be between him, Dabuz and No Name. Those are almost too obvious, I know, but that's where I'm at.

Maaaaaaybe J.

We're not lynching Glyph, we're not lynching AM, we're not lynching Gheb.

Might vote once I've read more. Particularly disliking Dabuz right now.

 

[Circus]

Actually, reading Allegory is making me feel really good about Inferno's slot. Hoping he doesn't make disappoint me when he replaces in.

 

[Circus]

Might be more inclined toward a J lynch than I initially thought, seeing the way he and Soup interacted earlier.

 

[Inferno3044]

After reading through Day 3 a couple of times the one question that kept popping up in my head was why Inferno was almost completely left out of the discussion. Is he cleared or any particular reason nobody has looked at him as potential scum?

The problem I see that people have is that they are bugged by each other trying to make the game more about themselves than about finding scum. Was Zen lynched because he was actually scummy or because he tried to make everything about himself? Tbh I think it's the latter. That's not to say he shouldn't have been lynched ... I doubt town could've kept being successful with him around. Still I'm not sure how much of it is somebody just being idiosyncratic and how much of it being unable to accept other people's idiosyncracies. I think it would be easier if the one half wouldn't try to make themselves look like they were something special [Zen, Dabuz @L-1, et cetera] and if the other half wouldn't be so damn ******** about confusing "idiosyncratic", "stupid" and "scummy".

I'd like to hear much more opinions on Inferno and why he's on nobody's radar. PoE doesn't count because as far as I can see most people are either suspicious of J or dabuz or of both. That still leaves room for Inferno as #3 but he never pops up. Why?

AM, J, TAWNN tell me your thoughts about Inferno.

Feel free to ask me any questions that will help clarify anything. Circus or anyone else can do the same.

 

[Circus]

Hoping he doesn't make disappoint me when he replaces in.

I'm laughing so hard at my own great ****ing Engrish right now.

Inferno, scumpicks from you please. Sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself, but I'm new here, you see.

 

[Circus]

Inferno, you were just here. Where did you go, Inferno, where did you gooooooo?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I do stand by my lean town on Dabunz but it does lose a few points on the S-tierTown flip.

Can you requote some main reasoning as for why Dabunz? Is it purely connection or his actual actions?

I'll find the original case, it went over a lot of why I thought he was scum. The connections were covered, pretty sure. His play afterwards did nothing to alleviate my concerns, as he just played like an idiot.

 

[Circus]

Omg, reading Day 3, how did Dabuz not get lynched? J v. Zen must have really eaten everyone's attention.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

After reading through Day 3 a couple of times the one question that kept popping up in my head was why Inferno was almost completely left out of the discussion. Is he cleared or any particular reason nobody has looked at him as potential scum?

I've had Inferno's slot as town for a good portion of the game, and nothing Inferno did made me question that. What makes you question that?

The problem I see that people have is that they are bugged by each other trying to make the game more about themselves than about finding scum. Was Zen lynched because he was actually scummy or because he tried to make everything about himself? Tbh I think it's the latter. That's not to say he shouldn't have been lynched ... I doubt town could've kept being successful with him around. Still I'm not sure how much of it is somebody just being idiosyncratic and how much of it being unable to accept other people's idiosyncracies. I think it would be easier if the one half wouldn't try to make themselves look like they were something special [Zen, Dabuz @L-1, et cetera] and if the other half wouldn't be so damn ******** about confusing "idiosyncratic", "stupid" and "scummy".

I can't speak for others but Zen's play itself was a liability and he looked scummy to us. I don't particularly care about his gambit bull**** as much as I did him trying to swing lynches off players that I wanted to lynch all the damn time. I thought him trying to swing the Spidey lynch to Soup was gross and then trying to swing the Soup lynch to Dabuz was grosser. I left it alone because I thought that his interaction with Soup might've cleared him, but then I remembered he dragged his heels on the Spidey wagon and was very reluctant to join it, to the point where he said he hoped Spidey wasn't a bomb on the flip.

That's ten kinds of sinister when you look at what they flipped: Back-Up and Color Whatever. $10 says Soup's role was useless, ergo, I would not have been surprised at all that Zen tried to bus Soup to save Spidey and then tried to save Soup just out of alignment.

That's why I lynched him. His stupid gambits, jumpiness, and penchant for swinging lynches at inopportune times were just cherries on top.

AM, J, TAWNN tell me your thoughts about Inferno.

Rather, tell me why you suspect him. I don't see the reason for it.

Granted, a lot of the slot's play is based on AcroFling's play so if you have any gems from Inferno, I'm willing to listen, but AcroFling's play was good enough that it bought Inferno somewhat of a pass from me. His predecessor was open with his thought process and was willingly investigating every player, even if they were read as town by others. He overthought things (i.e., his vote on me was based on the fact that I didn't react more to him asking to be pressured or some ****), but I don't expect AcroFling to be right, just to be thoughtful. He did that and did it in a way where nothing sinister really could have been derived from it. Ergo, town read.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Omg, reading Day 3, how did Dabuz not get lynched? J v. Zen must have really eaten everyone's attention.

It had already been going on in the background for days and after that J case by Zapp, it escalated into the forefront of the game. Lynching Dabunz was prolonging the inevitable, as neither were going to let the other go.

 

[Circus]

Kay, so I basically want Dabuz and J dead. As long as we lynch them, I'm pretty sure we have this game locked up. Who wants to decide the order there? I'm willing to follow AM and Glyph the most on this.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Still v/la esque, but here's an idea. Zen is good at reading J. J has played pretty damn scummy (need a refresher? Just glance over yesterDay). J is probably scum.

This is gunna be a fun day

vote: J

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Not to say Dabuz is free and clear though. J is just higher on the list

 

[Inferno3044]

I'm laughing so hard at my own great ****ing Engrish right now.

Inferno, scumpicks from you please. Sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself, but I'm new here, you see.

With a townZen flip J looks pretty scummy and might be the play for today. Something about TAWNN yesterday rubbed me the wrong way and I thin there's a chance of him being scum. I also feel like Dabuz needs to die before lylo.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

With a townZen flip J looks pretty scummy and might be the play for today. Something about TAWNN yesterday rubbed me the wrong way and I thin there's a chance of him being scum. I also feel like Dabuz needs to die before lylo.

I want you to tell me something that other people haven't already said a bunch of times

 

[Inferno3044]

I want you to tell me something that other people haven't already said a bunch of times

Currently satisfied with Circus's playing. Although I wouldn't have opposed a GLG lynch due to inactivity, I like the steps that Circus has taken and I want him to live for now. I might have my eye on him a bit just to see where his head is/make sure he's town.

 

[#HBC | J]

YesterDay was pretty much a waste due to Zen becoming stupid in the head and deciding to try and take fate into his own hands and faking an almost guilty on me which caused him to be lynched when he was called out on it. He wasn't lynched purely for the gambit though, as AM said, his play this game was terrible with the way he reacted to Spidey/Soupa.

Circus, what you talking about how I reacted to Soup~?

@Gheb: My read on Inferno is town. Allegory, to me, was pretty obv-town with his analysis of people's plays and also using critical thinking as a way to find scum. Although near the end of the Spidey lynch, he was beginning to waffle, his play simply is town to me. Inferno has done nothing inherently scummy at all and has actually been being open with his mind which makes me still more than okay with the slot.

Zen is good at reading J.

I'm better at reading him than he is at reading me, especially since we both took our breaks.

I want TAWNN toDay and I've stated good reasoning as to why with the way he was trying to position himself yesterDay. His questions towards Dabunz at the top of this page look somewhat fake because the questions don't seem to gain anything from what he is asking Dabunz.

 

[#HBC | J]

Making an attempt to read this game more thoroughly. I support a more in-depth look at Inferno. Nowhere near done reading, but early thoughts based on what I've gotten through so far and what I know about flips make me think scum is going to be between him, Dabuz and No Name. Those are almost too obvious, I know, but that's where I'm at.

Maaaaaaybe J.

We're not lynching Glyph, we're not lynching AM, we're not lynching Gheb.

Might vote once I've read more. Particularly disliking Dabuz right now.

Someone replaced GLG.

This person may actually have a brain.

How astounding.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

You being good at reading him has absolutely no bearing on him being able to read you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Regarding my discomfort with Inferno:

I've had Inferno's slot as town for a good portion of the game, and nothing Inferno did made me question that. What makes you question that?

Granted, a lot of the slot's play is based on AcroFling's play so if you have any gems from Inferno, I'm willing to listen, but AcroFling's play was good enough that it bought Inferno somewhat of a pass from me. His predecessor was open with his thought process and was willingly investigating every player, even if they were read as town by others. He overthought things (i.e., his vote on me was based on the fact that I didn't react more to him asking to be pressured or some ****), but I don't expect AcroFling to be right, just to be thoughtful. He did that and did it in a way where nothing sinister really could have been derived from it. Ergo, town read.

@Gheb: My read on Inferno is town. Allegory, to me, was pretty obv-town with his analysis of people's plays and also using critical thinking as a way to find scum. Although near the end of the Spidey lynch, he was beginning to waffle, his play simply is town to me. Inferno has done nothing inherently scummy at all and has actually been being open with his mind which makes me still more than okay with the slot.

So you get a town read on him because he has shown himself to be able to apply the very basics of mafia? Critical thinking, being open and being pro-active aren't things that identify oneself as town. You can do that as scum just as much. What you're saying is simply that Acro was playing well. But whether he did so as a townie rather than as a mafioso isn't something that your points convince me of.

If you don't do anything you're not doing anything wrong. Inferno hasn't just done "nothing wrong". He has hardly done anything at all. Other than parroting information that has been talked about a lot before he didn't bother to contribute a lot. Read through his Day 3 and earlier play and try to think of anything that sticks in your mind. It's hard enough to tell who his actual scumpicks are right now and it's ****ing Day 3. I don't see what would be more beneficial for a scumbag than to ride the "pro-town" read people have gotten from Acro ... especially when people like Zen, Dabuz and J are just begging to get lynched. It seems to be quite easy to just cruise through Day 3 like he did under those circumstances.

Everything I read / heard about him so far adds up to null. You can say that Acro played a pro-town game and Inferno didn't gather any scum points and thus the slot is likely town. But I can also say that Acro played the same pro-town Day 1 that a lot of scumbags play on Day 1 and from that moment on Inferno simply focused on not disrupting that impression by hiding his head in the sand. Both are just different points to view the playerslot. But look at the facts: Bottom line is that whatever the player slot has offered up to this point adds up to ... nothing, really. And when we already hit Day 4 I tend to be more concerened with those complete null reads for the simple fact that it's so incredibly hard to believe that somebody manages to remain completely null unintenionally up until this point. It bothers me more than the age-old dilemma of whether somebody is "dumb", "idiotic" or actually "scummy".

 

[#HBC | J]

He can't read me that well though. In our past adventures, he has faltered more than had a boon. However, using that me and Zen's ability to read each other as a premise for why I should be lynched is bull****. You say my actions yesterDay is scummy, show it then.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gheb, question, is Inferno scummier to you than Dabunz?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

He can't read me that well though. In our past adventures, he has faltered more than had a boon. However, using that me and Zen's ability to read each other as a premise for why I should be lynched is bull****. You say my actions yesterDay is scummy, show it then.

I have a feeling Zen would beg to differ. He was confident enough to try to take the decision away from the majority with his gambit as town. This is not the action of someone who's pretty sure they have scum pinned. This is the action of someone overflowing with confidence who is so damn sure that they don't even trust the rest of the town to agree with them.

And I'm already on record saying why I thought you were scummy already.

 

[#HBC | J]

We could go into psychological argumentation with what Overconfidence does to a person, regarding whether they are right or not. This would be a perfect example for the case.

Then can you quote it?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, question, is Inferno scummier to you than Dabunz?

Can't say he is. When I look at dabuz' play though there's almost no way to tell where the line is between him being "stupid", him being "idiosyncratic" and him being straight-up scummy. It could be any combo out of those 3 factors and as unlikely as it seems it may simply be a combo of him being stupid + idiosyncratic without him actually being scummy at all.

Inferno playerslot on the other hand has nothing "stupid" about it, neither from Acro's side, nor from Inferno's. And there's hardly anything idiosyncratic about the way either player has approached this game either as far as I can see.

What I'm trying to say: Inferno isn't terribly suspicious - surely not as much as dabuz or yourself - but at the same time I find it impossible to interpret him being suspicious as anything other than scuminess for the lack of other options. Dabuz is mighty suspicious and should by all means be dead by now but there's also the odd chance that he's simply incredibly stupid and idiosyncractic - his play surley allows for that interpretation.

Personally, I would place dabuz higher than Inferno on my scumlist regardless. I just think that Inferno is getting way too much credit and if the game is still not over after lynching dabuz and J then Inferno is the first player I'd look at.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

We could go into psychological argumentation with what Overconfidence does to a person, regarding whether they are right or not. This would be a perfect example for the case.

Then can you quote it?

I am having such hard core flashbacks for Jscum in Bingo Mafia. Go read.

And I don't care about what you think overconfidence does to people in general. We're talking about one very specific person, and Zen would not have acted in that manner without being sure (unless he was scum, but oh yeah! He was town!)

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Seriously lets get some votes on this guy

 

[Inferno3044]

Gheb do you think im scum or null? You don't think im brownie townie but nothing you said states that im scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

At this point of the game anything that is still so strikingly null as you are I consider scummy.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

So you get a town read on him because he has shown himself to be able to apply the very basics of mafia? Critical thinking, being open and being pro-active aren't things that identify oneself as town. You can do that as scum just as much. What you're saying is simply that Acro was playing well. But whether he did so as a townie rather than as a mafioso isn't something that your points convince me of.

Yes, and? I didn't find his posts to be utterly null like you did.

If you don't do anything you're not doing anything wrong. Inferno hasn't just done "nothing wrong". He has hardly done anything at all. Other than parroting information that has been talked about a lot before he didn't bother to contribute a lot. Read through his Day 3 and earlier play and try to think of anything that sticks in your mind. It's hard enough to tell who his actual scumpicks are right now and it's ****ing Day 3. I don't see what would be more beneficial for a scumbag than to ride the "pro-town" read people have gotten from Acro ... especially when people like Zen, Dabuz and J are just begging to get lynched. It seems to be quite easy to just cruise through Day 3 like he did under those circumstances.

Yes, Inferno hasn't done a lot but the second that you start focusing on what Inferno's done and ignored what Acro's done, you're doing it wrong. Acro did things, whether you agree with it or not, and cannot, nor should not, be read as null. I do remember things AcroFling has done, and some things he has said. Yes, Inferno has been an absolute non-factor, but that's typically in line with him: unless pressured, he's rarely here. I'm down for pushing him for input, but do you really think he'll do more than parrot information or push maybe one or two ideas out there?

Everything I read / heard about him so far adds up to null. You can say that Acro played a pro-town game and Inferno didn't gather any scum points and thus the slot is likely town. But I can also say that Acro played the same pro-town Day 1 that a lot of scumbags play on Day 1 and from that moment on Inferno simply focused on not disrupting that impression by hiding his head in the sand. Both are just different points to view the playerslot. But look at the facts: Bottom line is that whatever the player slot has offered up to this point adds up to ... nothing, really. And when we already hit Day 4 I tend to be more concerened with those complete null reads for the simple fact that it's so incredibly hard to believe that somebody manages to remain completely null unintenionally up until this point. It bothers me more than the age-old dilemma of whether somebody is "dumb", "idiotic" or actually "scummy".

Are you sure it's for this and not because he posted longass posts that you inevitably vote someone for?

Jokes aside, I feel like you give them too much credit and then not enough. I don't see how you could read AcroFling as null unless you skimmed his posts (likely, with you) or you do the thing you stated and completely spin everything he said to your doctored image of him. If you can't call a spade a spade, get your bias out of here and come back later when you have something better. If you think AcroFling is perfectly capable of doing nothing wrong, nothing stupid, or nothing idiosyncratic, let alone INFERNO is incapable of being stupid, then you're giving that slot far too much credit in its playing ability.

I don't think it's null. Feel free to try to fix your own damn read but you have my justification. If you think he's scum, point out his suspicious play and show us. If it's so thoroughly spun to fit your point, I'm ignoring it though.