Rusty Guillotine Mafia | Ovah

[#HBC | J]

Ryker and GLG are continuing to be useless. Actually, GLG looks more town this time through.

J 85
Ryker 49
Gordito 47
Cello_Marl 35
Sworddancer. 21
Ranmaru 17
KevinM 14
smargaret 12
giraffelasergun 11
July 10
-Joey- 8
th3kuzinator 5
Xiivi 3
Gheb_01 1
Tandora 1

Did you honestly compare Ryker to GLG and say they are both useless when actually Ryker has been actively speaking his mind, expressing opinions and maintaining a healthy level of activity?

You are skimming, but explain in a compare/contrast why you say Ryker = GLG?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It sounded like I was asking you your opinion on a policy lynch. Bold the part where I said I supported a policy lynch.

 

[smargaret]

You proposed it. That's supporting it.

J, Ryker may have posted a lot, but he's also done a lot of fluffposting. GLG isn't fluffposting, but he just isn't posting.

Hypothetical with made up numbers: 20% of Player A's posts have game-related content. 85% of Player B's posts do. Player A has 100 posts, Player B has 25. Who has been more active in the game?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Day 1 - Votecount 6 (6/11)

J (1): giraffelasergun
smargaret (2): July, Sword
Ranmaru (0):
-Joey- (0):
Gordito (5): Cello_Marl, Ryker, KevinM, -Joey-, J
July (0):
Sworddancer. (1): Ranmaru
Cello_Marl (0):
Ryker (0):
KevinM (1): smargaret
giraffelasergun (1): Gordito

Not Voting (0):

Deadline: 02.20.11 11:59PM EST​

 

[#HBC | J]

Ryker's posts have content. They may be one-liners because of the way he has been playing mostly by phone (iirc) however he does have content.

GLG's posts have content that is solely structured around where he openly said he will be tunneling me until I die and do nothing at all.

Did you honestly read GLG's posts at all? Also you have a town read on GLG, explain. No-one else seems to share this train of thought besides you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You proposed it. That's supporting it.

I disagree.

 

[smargaret]

GLG's posts read more misguided townie than scum to me; it's a combination of gut and the GLG/J = TvS read I have.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And I just figured out that I know GLG. You're more active than this homie. Do not like.

 

[July]

Ran, a lot of your case against me lacks evidence. You've just threw out a bunch of accustions and didn't back them up with reasoning. Do that and then we're talk.

---

About Gord. I think him to be moderatly scummy. Main points against him is that is:

-Vote is on GLG, an inactive, and thus is not useful.
-The "knowing" too much information part.
-Backing off from J only after a day is also a bit sketchy. His explanation seems beliveable enough, but put togather that he jumped right on the other most popluar wagon right after still raises my eyebrow.

@GBoy: Justify your vote on GLG. If he's inactive, why vote for him? How is that usful?

Also, respond to the "knowing too much part" if you'll please.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind him gone toDay, but I want to focus on a couple of others.

First Smag. Gord's mention of you as town makes me feel a bit better about you by defualt. However, besides from that, you have been acting pretty scummy. I do not like the very "under the radar" game you have been playing. You seem very reluctant to get dirt on your hands and that, ironically, makes you pretty scummy. You're not being helpful and you're not doing anything to progress your reads. Disguarding Gords comments, you're looking pretty bad.

Ryker is also someone I'm not liking too much. The same way Gord said KevinM was playing on the sidelines, I also believe Ryker is doing. For lack of a better term, he's playing the "middle man." I can not recall this guy asking questions, just pointing stuff out. That's only half of the work.

KevinM is KevinM

KevinM is indeed pretty much acting like Ryker. I know KevinM is known for doing this but I've seen better from him.

Joey is worrisome. I want to see Gord's flip before I accuse him of anything but he has been tunneling Gord a lot. Like, that's practically the only person he has talked about. Plus the vote on him before reading was scummy.

GLG is still sketchy, plus I've looked at his profile and he was on yesturday, but he didn't post anything. Huh.

Also J . . .

unvote

I still don't like his early play, but there's nothing about his play now that's scummy so I don't think he deserves my vote anymore.

@J: Why the July hate?

vote Smag

Whay haven't you been useful, at all? Why do you fail at actually trying to contribute an effort?

fos Ryker
fos J (for earlier)

I like this post from Swords. The point about Ran is true, but that's not particularly scummy of him. What is more concerning are posts 286 and 289, where he draws out the connection of himself with town explicitly, which as town isn't necessary to do in back to back posts; IGMEOY Ran.

Case against Gord makes sense, although I'm still not convinced he is scum, mostly because of the way his wagon took off so suddenly and with so much agreement, which always makes me wary. And GLG still seems more suspicious than Gord considering he made a lot of scummy, uniformed comments, got heat then disappeared, letting town cool down and bring things right back to Gord.

Also, as I've stated before, I agree that Smarg has not only been playing under the radar, but taking jabs at people enough to look like she is doing something but not enough to really get her hands dirty. Furthermore, I feel like she has been pretty quick to twist other people's words and comments to get those quick jabs in, but not to commit and actually make a case against someone.

Agree on Joey, disagree on Ryker and KevinM. Ryker has input and defends it when it is necessary, and KevinM has been pretty observant. I don't see scummy behavior in that playstyle.

Gord still isn't lynched?

Swords/Ryker, look at July's case on GLG and look at the time it appeared.

This was my second post iirc. The first one summing up everything else addressed to me or that took place in the game up to that point which I found important to discuss, but the second post was specifically geared towards addressing my top scum pick and thus stating my case against GLG.

Do you see how, oh how to put it, oppurtunistic and harsh it was especially on the newest person to catch flak?

Why was it opportunistic to express my opinion that GLG was scummy after he made scummy posts based on NO content? At least there was substance in the argument between you and Gord, but GLG kept throwing out uniformed stances, and he deserved pressure for it, which he didn't handle well at all.

Conclusions: I would happily lynch Kevin, J, Gboy in that order. There are several people who are artificially inflating their post count, IGMEOthem for future days. I still don't think J and GLG are the same alignment, but I'm leaning more strongly SvT than TvS.

What are your feelings on Swords? You mentioned him quite a bit in your catch-up post

Which, remember, we don't get until day 2 is over.

Should we ask for the impatient executioner to immediately drop it, give us a confirm and a flip, but cost us the executioner in the next night? I say yes.

Hmm....that's an interesting concept but I think we shouldn't wait for the impatient executioner to drop it cuz that is our one time deal.

I saw wait for NK flip then debate on it. No use in wasting a PR that quickly.

I'm figuring this out, will have a post devoted to this coming soon.

You proposed it. That's supporting it.

J, Ryker may have posted a lot, but he's also done a lot of fluffposting. GLG isn't fluffposting, but he just isn't posting.

Hypothetical with made up numbers: 20% of Player A's posts have game-related content. 85% of Player B's posts do. Player A has 100 posts, Player B has 25. Who has been more active in the game?

I agree with your hypothetical question, but that's not the case with GLG and Ryker. Ryker has content, GLG has low activity and scummy content.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Just a small town girl,...

 

[Cello_Marl]

@KevinM: You still okay with July going? I'll switch my vote if you do.

 

[July]

Alright, so in reference to Impatient Executioner question.

ToNight it is likely that Mafia will get one kill and get to investigate one player. Chances that they either figure out or kill a power role (counting Town Sleep Walker and Town Redeemed Soul) is 50/50. Assuming best case scenario, they get vt on both. However, even if this is the case, let's say we use town IE toMorrow, and it turns out we lynched a townie. Now we have three either outed or dead vts and a used power role. They know that the IE is now vt so they can just kill and investigate two other players that they are unsure of and chances are 2:1 of hitting a power role. Or, if mafia has already outed a power role it wants dead, they can kill them and then investigate someone else to see their role. I would imagine if they found out who town sleepwalker is they would want him alive to confuse Town Voyeur, and any other power roles they would want dead.

SO, if we have complete confidence the person on the chopping block is scum, we should probably use Impatient Executioner, hopefully they are Mafia Rolecop and job becomes that much easier. However, if we are not confident that our lynchee is scum, we are handing them vt and the ability to kill and cop more townies to find other power roles.

It looks like Gord is probably going to be the lynch toDay; I am not convinced Gord is scum and thus I am not in favor of using the Impatient Executioner toMorrow, I think it gives scum too much leeway Night 2 to try and find power roles. Plus, if we **** up and lynch two townies toMorrow plus use IE, it's like a field day for scum to try and kill power roles.

There are a lot of things that I couldn't take into account, because they get quite complicated, like if Town Voyeur targets mafia or Town Reporter targets Sleep Walker but there were too many factors, so I went for best case scenario night actions for town without pr intervention and worst case scenario day actions for town short of lynching a power role.

 

[July]

@Cello, any specific reason you are now willing to switch your vote to me?

 

[KevinM]

@KevinM: You still okay with July going? I'll switch my vote if you do.

But he likes me and won't vote for me for dumb reasons like other players

 

[Cello_Marl]

I really think you should put your vote on July.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Unvote Vote July

 

[July]

@Cello, any specific reason you are now willing to switch your vote to me?

You know, still curious...

 

[Cello_Marl]

But he likes me and won't vote for me for dumb reasons like other players

Yeah...why is that? That's why you should vote for her.

That's basically @July too.

 

[Dooms]

You should vote for her because she thinks?

LOL!

No @ Executioner. Just no.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm good with some July pressure.

Unvote
Vote: July

 

[July]

I'm good with some July pressure.

Unvote
Vote: July

I expected this one, considering you've been building a case against me.

Yeah...why is that? That's why you should vote for her.

That's basically @July too.

But this one I'm not quite clear on. Why exactly am I supposed to have issues with Kevin because of his play style? Either way I don't, nor do I have an issue with his content at this point, sorry to disappoint you.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@July: You're worried about the Mafia Role Cop finding out who our PRs are, right? So, why would we have our Impatient Executioner come forward to finish someone that we thought was the MRC? Let's say we actually had him on the guillotine; if we leave him be, that's a 50/50 shot that scum finds a PR. If finished off, then scum KNOWS who our Executioner is, who is the only person capable of confirming him/herself as Town by using his/her power. That's if we were right; if we were wrong, then we'd be outing a PR for no reason whatsoever.

@KevinM: You should have noticed something like that. Along with the several instances of "case on Gordito makes sense, but I don't think he's scum". Why doesn't she think Gordito is scum, and if the answer is reasonable, then why doesn't she try to convince the rest of us with that reasoning?

Good with a KevinM or July lynch.

 

[KevinM]

Townies don't usually make counter cases when the better idea is to form another case.

Granted she hasn't done that but it's not a red flag to me. Haven't been really seeing her be wishy washy because I've been looking at Gord and J. *shrugs*.

Unvote

If we aren't going that way then we can reevaluate but lemme look at July before I go saying anything.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gah too much shiz going on 'ere. All I remember was someone I think Sword asking this:

@GBoy: Justify your vote on GLG. If he's inactive, why vote for him? How is that usful?

And the answer to that, is because I think he needs to go more than KevinM, and just because he's inactive doesn't mean pressure isn't necessary. I see no reason to put my vote elsewhere at this point, except possibly KevinM, but no, still think he's the best outlook. Esp. since I've seen 'em around the boards a decent amount and just not contributing here.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'll talk more when I'm out of school.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I think July may be scum, but I'd rather hit Gordito who, imo, July has been rushing to find an alternative solution to.

Joey explain why we should not drop the guillotine? Iit gives us a flip and a clear to work with on Day 2. I honestly don't give two ****s about mafia rolecop hitting our PRs. I'm more concerned with the information it gains and how much closer it brings me to figuring out who's town and who's not.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If scum kill the executioner before the role is used, then it's useless.

 

[July]

@July: You're worried about the Mafia Role Cop finding out who our PRs are, right? So, why would we have our Impatient Executioner come forward to finish someone that we thought was the MRC? Let's say we actually had him on the guillotine; if we leave him be, that's a 50/50 shot that scum finds a PR. If finished off, then scum KNOWS who our Executioner is, who is the only person capable of confirming him/herself as Town by using his/her power. That's if we were right; if we were wrong, then we'd be outing a PR for no reason whatsoever.

@KevinM: You should have noticed something like that. Along with the several instances of "case on Gordito makes sense, but I don't think he's scum". Why doesn't she think Gordito is scum, and if the answer is reasonable, then why doesn't she try to convince the rest of us with that reasoning?

Good with a KevinM or July lynch.

Because when would be the most opportune time to use him if the town is not sure that they are hitting scum? Should we use it one someone who got put on the guillotine at the last minute to prevent a no lynch? or someone who you are just trying to get info from the flip out of? I think it would be stupid to use the Impatient Executioner toMorrow because there is no one I personally find so scummy that I'm sure the Impatient Executioner will reveal scum and we won't have used the pr for nothing.

And you are wrong; If we finish him off, then scum now knows who the Executioner was who is now a vt, so we don't out a pr, we use a pr before scum kills him, if we are right which we hopefully would be then we lynch scum and get chance to catch second scum in same day before they kill again.

If it is scum on the chopping block and we are sure it is scum, then the risk has a huge reward; but if its vt its a huge mistake, thats why I'm saying we should be careful.

I think July may be scum, but I'd rather hit Gordito who, imo, July has been rushing to find an alternative solution to.

Joey explain why we should not drop the guillotine? Iit gives us a flip and a clear to work with on Day 2. I honestly don't give two ****s about mafia rolecop hitting our PRs. I'm more concerned with the information it gains and how much closer it brings me to figuring out who's town and who's not.

And as for Gord, I find the wagon that formed on him so suddenly mad scummy. I took the one day off for a tournament, came back, saw where we were and that the day had stagnated on Gord as scum and everyone seemed really content with that, and that gave me a really bad feeling. My scum hunting didn't lead me to Gord scum, it lead me to Gord reckless town, he got caught in a battle with J that he lost and whether he is town or scum that screwed him over from Day 1 as everyone just hopped on him and from what I saw, didn't care what he said past that; he was just scum to everyone. I did my own scum-hunting, and it pointed to GLG and Smarg as scum, whom I have already made my cases against.

Le sigh. I'm not rushing to find an alternative. I'm expressing my dissent towards what I think is a rushed lynch of an easy target and I would be stupid to just suck it up and deal with a Gord lynch when I have my own scum picks.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Proven Town die. The Impatient Executioner is Town, and his power is provable in thread. That far more than a simple Vanilla Townie. Even the Reporter and the Voyeur do not share that benefit.

We need to use the executioner to put us at an odd number of voters in later Days. Day 3 is probably best. Other than that, this conversation is useless and is now at an end.

Unvote Vote Gordito

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Mafia don't die at night, who does that leave? One town dying is one town dying unless it's the executioner before he uses his role. If it leads us to making correct decisions, then it's well worth it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

AHEM,...

Just a small town girl.

 

[Dooms]

Just a small town girl,...

Livin' in a lonely world. She took the midnight train going aaaaaanyyyywheeeere.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Just a city boy,...

 

[Dooms]

Born and raised in South Detroit. He took midnight train going aaaaanyyyyywheeeereee

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Making a long case:

- makes it hard for your target to respond. It serves no pro-town purpose whatsoever.
- impresses lazy and superficial players. Looking at things from a negative, you should assume the worst play of your fellow townies so some people my be persuaded by big but empty words.
- often serves to scare the target. The poster had ample time to make the case but the target is expected to make an instant answer. This is a HUGE reason why people should be MUCH more empathetic with the targets, listen to responses more and ALWAYS scrutinize these cases [look if quotes were taken out of context or if the poster is guilty of selective reading to make his case look bigger than it actually is].
- could usually be simplified without forfeiting the core message, making it easier to respond to and thus more constructive.

If you are town and you want to find scum, do you think randomly making a huge case out of nowhere is going to help you? If you have a bad feeling about somebody or a particular post bothers you you're always responding as soon as you see it. A case built on solid logic comes step by step and doesn't need long, complicated explanation.

Edit: Note that in your example, tHE-Man was scum that game.

FoS Joey

It makes me think twice about that whole case. Esp since A LOT of it was the same shiz and just random fluff within the case.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

A singer in a smoky room.
A smell of wine and cheap perfume.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

FoS Joey

It makes me think twice about that whole case. Esp since A LOT of it was the same shiz and just random fluff within the case.

Did you not see either me or Kiki's response?

 

[Dooms]

For a smile they can share the night, it goes onnn and onnn and onnn and onnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Cello/J, c'mon, sing along.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Didn't see yours tbh.

I've done it multiple times without bein scum as well, Gheb. You don't examine the pros.

-Allows you to bring information to bear at once without warning the target it's coming and that they should watch out.
-Allows you to continue to focus on a target you find worse without undermining your primary case by pointing out other problems.
-Puts all the information in one place that's easily accessible, and, if done right, easy to respond to.

You put what scum do with it only. You should examine it yourself and see if you can discern the poster's motivation.

I just see nothing of those three points in Joey. And...

Large cases are only anti-town if they're wrong.

Moral of the story: don't be wrong.

Well, since I know what alignment I am...