Rule Set Change (Suggestion)

[Gea]

Considering some people now seem to think that playing on a stage like Brinstar is equivalent to playing on Flatzone, I'd say yeah, we have.

 

[Cactuar]

I'd argue that playing on Brinstar is worse than playing on Flatzone.

 

[DoH]

 

[Gea]

I'd argue that playing on Brinstar is worse than playing on Flatzone.

Marth would finally have a good stage

 

[Achilles1515]

Why would we make rules that encourage people to only play one character? You can play one character if you choose to, but this game is so good because there are a number of characters that can be played at a competitive level. Having the ability to play more than one character at that level, and counterpick your opponent is a beautiful thing, really, and shows a lot of skill and bravery.
I think the only people that agree with this idea are ones that only play one character….

I also think people forget that they should play this game to have fun. and playing on one stage would be lame as f***. Heres an idea! Adapt to the other stages!

This is a typical Democratic point of view too
"Lets take away peoples choices and force them to do one thing"

.....yeah no thanks. we've got 4 more years to deal with that nonsense

 

[JPOBS]

@jpobs what's wrong with opening up the option to re-strike every game?

Nothing, but that isn't what the OP was talking about

So you start your set as you normally would except the entirety of the set is played on the stage strike stage.

what you're talking about scar is a different thing entirely. I'm not sure what to feel about it cuz it has a few drawbacks, namely, the winner of th first game plays a MUCH larger role in the decision of the stage for the next match since he effectively gets 2 bans so to speak. That's much more power than currently granted to first round winners in the current ruleset.

 

[mhenlo]

what about stage strike normally the first game, then stage strike with stadium and take out the last stage played on.

 

[JKJ]

I'm actually stunned that this is even a notion. While playing the same stage for the whole set may not be THAT bad, the idea of a counterpick stage is still superior. Say that I hate FD, and I am bad on BF and FoD against Marth. Marth can then strike DL and YS and force me to play on one of those stages v him. Ill obviously go to battlefield, auto-tippers through platforms and messed up edge play for spacies and all. I feel like I should be able to take him to DL or YS or PS for one game each, at least. I should be able to play on the stages that I feel are in my favor at least once during the set. With the method in the OP, I'll have to play on the one I feel is least s****y out of the s****y stages for my character, for the whole set. That way, I will have to win once on the tough stage for me, but if I win on my counterpicks I can win the set.

And Battlefield only (even though it isn't explicitly the plan in the OP) is a TERRIBLE IDEA. AWFUL. I hate CG's (I am a spacie) and even I think that the idea of taking them away is unbalanced. Fox and Falco are overpowered, CG's and gimps keep them in check. Without CG's, S**T WILL HIT THE FAN. I feel bans on Fox and Falco coming on if we make a stage that generally gives spacies even footing with the rest of the cast, and not a disadvantage, which is what allows the overpowered characters to be legal in the first place. BF only is very bad for everyone who is not a spacie. I may dislike the stage, but for my character I know it is a pretty good stage. It's pretty bad for all other characters if this is true.

I think floaties need a CP, they kind of get F**KED by the current stage list. Bring back Brinstar. No camping on there, pretty good for floaties.

 

[Mew2King]

Scar, spacies are already the best character on the majority of the stages. Having a CP on them to FD balances them out. Mango's spacies beat my Marth on FD, it's quite possible just don't mess up or run past marth as he is dash dance grabbing and if he doesn't predict it he gets punished hard. Along with all the other reasons I said. BF is just better for falcon which is why i believe you and hax want that to be the ruleset. If this ever became the normal ruleset, I would 100% quit marth for every MU in favor of sheik and fox. There would be no reason to ever use marth again. I'm not saying that just to say it either. Think about it a lot. It's the truth.

 

[rpotts]

Marth doesn't always win on FD. M2K is pretty godly on it but he is not the only Marth.

Obviously, but a BF/FD stage set allows players to win by only winning on their one CP, not good for competitiveness, imo.

Why would we make rules that encourage people to only play one character? You can play one character if you choose to, but this game is so good because there are a number of characters that can be played at a competitive level. Having the ability to play more than one character at that level, and counterpick your opponent is a beautiful thing, really, and shows a lot of skill and bravery.
I think the only people that agree with this idea are ones that only play one character….

This ruleset doesn't encourage people to play any one character, it only discourages having a pocket Marth or something for CP'ing spacies to FD to chaingrab. Not saying that's good/bad, I just think you're reading too far into M2K's post, just because he'd drop Marth doesn't mean everyone would drop their secondaries and play one character exclusively.

Personally I'm against a BF only stage set. I don't see anything wrong with our current stages, if you want to argue for/against bans, striking or DSR that's a different story.

 

[Lovage]

ya like i posted in the last thread

never ever gonna happen

 

[JPOBS]

Scar, spacies are already the best character on the majority of the stages. Having a CP on them to FD balances them out.

Gosh m2k, for the last time the stage list is not a mechanism for artificially balancing the cast.

If that means marth (or anyone) becomes obsolete because they "can't" compete without X stage, then that's too damn bad.

 

[Hax]

Scar, spacies are already the best character on the majority of the stages. Having a CP on them to FD balances them out. Mango's spacies beat my Marth on FD, it's quite possible just don't mess up or run past marth as he is dash dance grabbing and if he doesn't predict it he gets punished hard. Along with all the other reasons I said. BF is just better for falcon which is why i believe you and hax want that to be the ruleset. If this ever became the normal ruleset, I would 100% quit marth for every MU in favor of sheik and fox. There would be no reason to ever use marth again. I'm not saying that just to say it either. Think about it a lot. It's the truth.

how in the **** does adding 4 stages (yoshis, fod, dl64, SPACIES STADIUM) that spacies are likely to have a better matchup vs your character on than they would on Battlefield help balance spacies? you're only adding one anti-spacies stage (FD), and it only gives your character a better shot vs spacies if it gives you a chaingrab. if it doesn't, then giving falco a completely flat stage to laser on probably just made your matchup worse vs him. spacies are on average most "balanced" (but still the favorite in every matchup) on Battlefield.

 

[Cactuar]

The favorite.
In every matchup.

 

[ShrieK1295]

I think this is a terrible idea. Stages aren't just about inherent advantages and counter picking characters, but also to counter players. You won't always want the same stage against the same characters.. I play Falcon and often strike to Yoshi's against a spacie player and get completely ****ed up. I really wouldn't want to go back there if that happened.

 

[Hax]

I think this is a terrible idea. Stages aren't just about inherent advantages and counter picking characters, but also to counter players. You won't always want the same stage against the same characters.. I play Falcon and often strike to Yoshi's against a spacie player and get completely ****ed up. I really wouldn't want to go back there if that happened.

how did you not strike FoD/Yoshi's and end up on either DL64 or FD in Falcon vs spacies?

I mean yeah if you end up on your worst stage game 1 this ruleset sucks

 

[Scar]

to quote the great Pink Reaper:

wow TCB did you really quote the pink reaper to prove a point

what is happening

and no one said that chaingrabbing is unfair. i'm arguing that, if a 0-death, easy-to-execute technique exists on one out of 6 stages, then introducing that technique introduces an extreme change to the balance of the matchup. i'm questioning whether introducing that extreme change is valuable or not. my position on the matter is that, no, it is not. you can have a different position and that's fine.

but if you think that i'm saying that chaingrabbing is unfair then you've missed my point entirely.

 

[Scar]

tl;dr on this whole thread

we need to determine our values as a community and we need to determine the purpose of the ruleset. after that we can have an UNBIASED conversation about how to have a ruleset that aligns with our values and that best accomplishes the purpose.

as it stands this is a waste of time.

 

[Deleted member]

tl;dr on this whole thread

we need to determine our values as a community and we need to determine the purpose of the ruleset. after that we can have an UNBIASED conversation about how to have a ruleset that aligns with our values and that best accomplishes the purpose.

as it stands this is a waste of time.

i just want the old 9 stage list back.

stream about it IMO

 

[Scar]

pocast is tonight actually, 6pm pacific - we will probably touch on it

sorry to bump myself but check it out an PM me if you want to call in and talk about anything

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

wow TCB did you really quote the pink reaper to prove a point

what is happening

and no one said that chaingrabbing is unfair. i'm arguing that, if a 0-death, easy-to-execute technique exists on one out of 6 stages, then introducing that technique introduces an extreme change to the balance of the matchup. i'm questioning whether introducing that extreme change is valuable or not. my position on the matter is that, no, it is not. you can have a different position and that's fine.

but if you think that i'm saying that chaingrabbing is unfair then you've missed my point entirely.

Yo Pink Reaper is the homie

I just find the difference in our rhetoric interesting, and shows how far apart we are on this: You say we'd be "introducing" a technique (chaingrabbing), I say we'd be removing it.

Though idk how you can justify removing FD without first calling the techniques and tricks employed on it unfair and uncompetitive. Unless you think it has too many random factors, which it clearly does not.

[though I find it ironic that this is coming off the heels of a year where PP beat M2K on FD game 5, and Mango beat PP's pocket Marth. sooooooooo broken]

 

[Fly_Amanita]

we need to determine our values as a community and we need to determine the purpose of the ruleset.

The community collectively does not come close to having unified values, which is a big part of why I rarely get involved in these discussions.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

The community collectively does not come close to having unified values, which is a big part of why I rarely get involved in these discussions.

Yeaaaah

Though I'd be curious to hear what you think the values -ought- to be, Fly.

 

[Mew2King]

yea marth might not beat falco on FD if the falco is not making mistakes but i still believe marth wins there and i think marth is the best char in the game on FD overall also

honestly I like 9 stages. Maybe more than 9

Reason - the game is getting kind of repetitive. I want more stages for fun. Even Mushroom Kingdom stages would be fun

And okay this does not have to be a national thing, but i think tourneys would be more FUN. Newbs might like it more. Newbs is what we need to join back our game.

I did this at Velocity's house last year, playing on all the stages, and it was really fun. Maybe not the most fair, but for sure the most fun.

spacies would be banned from CPing most of these stages obviously.

 

[odinNJ]

Mute city? It's a very exciting and biased stage ( lol falcos dair) but I think it could definatly liven up melee without making things too jank. I'd give it 4 cactuars

 

[Mew2King]

what the **** is a cactuar?

 

[Bones0]

The community clearly values stage diversity and the numerous skills that come along with different stages more than they value... whatever it is that playing one stage offers instead. I'm still not quite sure. Something about allowing players to focus more on matchups or adaption? I don't see how playing multiple stages affects these aspects (other than making them deeper and more skill-based because you have to consider different stage elements).

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I think dl64 should be retired cause its the only 1 I hear when there is more than 3 tvs on, and sing it in public even tho people starin. ****ing dreams with that song in it, it obviously has some kind of magic power that has us playing this game.
i think we should review ethical "legislation" in all kinds of competitive sport with a focus on video game and release our own on this website seperate from the ruleset to give players just starting some guidelines to share with their friends in their local smashfests and tournaments.
im sorry this is so offtopic but i already stated my opinion about stage list.

 

[Habefiet]

what the **** is a cactuar?

Tempted to sig this

 

[Deleted member]

mew2king's post is about 5.4 cactuars.

for a reference, that's almost as jank as DK's powershield.

 

[Mew2King]

how is this measurement gauged?

 

[Deleted member]

how is this measurement gauged?

^most m2k comments range between 5-7.9 cactuars, as you can clearly see here^

LOL

yeah go to that thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14454748

 

[strawhats]

I think that anything that would make M2K quit Marth is a terrible idea.

This...10 x THIS^

 

[Scar]

I just find the difference in our rhetoric interesting, and shows how far apart we are on this: You say we'd be "introducing" a technique (chaingrabbing), I say we'd be removing it.

i said that FD introduces it, not that we do.

The community collectively does not come close to having unified values, which is a big part of why I rarely get involved in these discussions.

yeah i'm just gonna stay out of it until we have that first conversation, though. at least the values discussion can be productive / informative.