Rule #2: Never listen to Fino +1

[DtJ Hilt]

Yellows don't outrange anything Lucario has that a red or blue wouldn't outrange. Conversely, if a red or blue would get beat by one of Lucarios attacks, so would a yellow. This is mainly because Yellows' disjoints are about the same as Lucario's, but Lucario's disjoints don't.. well, have a hurtbox. So he wins that battle. That said, yellows have lower damage output and knockback. We don't want Lucario to live long at all, so approaching the ending of his stock slowly is terrible for us, and we could easily end up taking a lot of damage or losing a stock (both due to aura). It's just that there aren't any benefits of using Yellows, which means that they're unnecessary, because of their low damage output and knockback.

Same with Snake, for the most part. But not as much.

Edit: What Vocal said, lol.

 

[-Vocal-]

Yellows don't outrange anything Lucario has that a red or blue wouldn't outrange. Conversely, if a red or blue would get beat by one of Lucarios attacks, so would a yellow. This is mainly because Yellows' disjoints are about the same as Lucario's, but Lucario's disjoints don't.. well, have a hurtbox. So he wins that battle. That said, yellows have lower damage output and knockback. We don't want Lucario to live long at all, so approaching the ending of his stock slowly is terrible for us, and we could easily end up taking a lot of damage or losing a stock (both due to aura). It's just that there aren't any benefits of using Yellows, which means that they're unnecessary, because of their low damage output and knockback.

Same with Snake, for the most part. But not as much.

Edit: What Vocal said, lol.

I remember everything that betters my game

Except to whistle bounce more

 

[Jane]

ok, that makes sense.

are those like the only two matchups? or is there more than likely more matchups where yellows arent good but we just havent explored yet?

also, where the fack is the stage discussion thread? i couldnt find it in the directory :<

 

[Dabuz]

finally olimar mains realize how bad yellows are...ive been trying to explain that since 08 >_>

 

[Asa]

blueberry grape lineup ftw

 

[Dabuz]

no, your doing it wrong, you want thatraspberrygrade lineup

 

[BSL]

thatraspberrygrape lineup?

 

[Dabuz]

thatraspberrygrape lineup

Yes

Spoiler

10 raspberrygrape

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Blueberry > Rasberry imo

 

[Turazrok]

Watermelons are delicious imo.

 

[Dabuz]

Blueberry > Rasberry imo

your opinion means that your fair/ bair/ sweetspot non spike dair now kills about 30% later and your regular smashes will kill about 15% later, all for a frab that kills at 120%-150% depending on character on how good the player is a DIing and the ability to keep an army alive in water

 

[Blissard]

Yeah why not purple for Lucario, don't you want him far away?

What? I thought we were talking about asians yellows being bad with Lucario >_>

I don't get why yellows are so bad in the Snake MU. Last time I had really staled attacks and only yellows were following me. The hitstun was beeaaasstt. Or maybe their Snake just sucked XD

 

[Dabuz]

What? I thought we were talking about asians yellows being bad with Lucario >_>

I don't get why yellows are so bad in the Snake MU. Last time I had really staled attacks and only yellows were following me. The hitstun was beeaaasstt. Or maybe their Snake just sucked XD

snakelives throughyellow upsmash freshat 135%on FDno other pikminexcept for whitelets that happen

 

[Blissard]

Btw Dabuz do you go to Pennsylvania tourneys? I saw you comment on the DSO thread.

And wow lotsa Oli's online right now.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

LOL Dabuz, 30% is an exaggeration. Reds aren't that much better at killing than blues. 10% is a better number to describe it. Blues also have amazing damage output for throws and a viable kill option at high percents out of a grab, while no other pikmin sans purple have.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'd say that raspberrygrape and blueberrygrape both have different advantages - they're both viable flavors depending on the matchup

 

[Dabuz]

@blissard, no, not yet, maybe in a year if i move out there for college

@hilt: ill compromise at 20%, cause its definitely more than 10%, reds have better smash damage output, which, at least based on my play style, is better by far, and at high percents, most of olimar's pikmin moves have kill potential, heck, i killed a mk at 180% with yellow upthrow once recently :3 blues obviously are amazing, but the pros of red outweigh blue, also, being able to go through fire element attacks is a big pro in reds favor

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Red Fair kills mario 8.2% earlier than blues do from the center of battlefield. It's between 10 and 20 for smashes and aerials, but it's usually closer to ten.

 

[-Vocal-]

I take back what I said earlier. Everyone is wrong.

Purevanilla is obviously the only true choice.

 

[Asa]

the fire element is really only a plus in the snake matchup

 

[Blissard]

An answer on my bio test was triphosphate. My classmate wrote trisyphiliis @_@

I actually like reds better too. And the little fire animation when it hits an opponent makes it 10x better, whereas blues...just hit them DX

 

[Dabuz]

Red Fair kills mario 8.2% earlier than blues do from the center of battlefield. It's between 10 and 20 for smashes and aerials, but it's usually closer to ten.

with or without DI?

reason i ask that, is because for some reason, i keep thinking fire element adds slight hitstun to attacks


also, MUs where fire element helps: snake, rob, G&W, lucas, ness, bowser, mario, luigi

PS: i retract my statement on yellows being bad, they are just very matchup dependent

 

[-Vocal-]

PinkBootsNolimar > any other lineup flavor possible

<Slightly ashamed of himself for making a pink boots joke

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Fire doesn't add any hitstun or hitlag. And for combos, red stop dealing increased hitstun earlier than every other color, other than Purple.

 

[Dabuz]

PinkBootsNolimar > any other lineup flavor possible

<Slightly ashamed of himself for making a pink boots joke

*punches* DON'T BE ASHAMED, BE PROUD YOU MADE A JOKE (even though pink boots is only good on YI and PS1)

Fire doesn't add any hitstun or hitlag. And for combos, red stop dealing increased hitstun earlier than every other color, other than Purple.

>_< still, the earlier kill % makes that much of a difference

 

[Turazrok]

Vox should be ashamed he couldnt figure out who I was on FB.

 

[-Vocal-]

*punches* PINK BOOTS IS GOOD EVERYWHERE!

he says even though he went 95% Oliver last Saturday >.>

I'd also guess that the margin between killing increases when you factor in how DIable each pikmin is - perhaps that extra little knockback makes quite a bit of difference after all. Personally can't say for sure, myself.

 

[Asa]

*punches* DON'T BE ASHAMED, BE PROUD YOU MADE A JOKE (even though pink boots is only good on YI and PS1)


>_< still, the earlier kill % makes that much of a difference

imo it makes a difference in matchups like snake/ddd, where all the kill power you can get helps, and it's quite easy to land an aerial on snake when he's offstage

but ya blues don't kill that much later, and choosing to keep more reds than blues will remove a kill option for you

it really hurts to land a grab with a red at higher percents, then you're like **** if only this was a blue/purple

 

[Blissard]

Vox should be ashamed he couldnt figure out who I was on FB.

Lololol that's because you're Oli profile pic smells like man, and your hair is too awesome for Catholic School.

 

[PSI.kick]

guys i missed this thread. so much fun.

and why are we talking about which lines are better, imo i'd rather throw my pikmin at my opponent giving them extra crap to deal with than throw them off stage and repluck wasting 2 seconds of time, the pikmin will probably die anyway if they knock it off (especially whites...)

idk, but if i had to choose a line i'd what raspberrygrape with one (if i have two, then w/e) blue. If you see a kill opportunity or a punish and you want to use a red/blue/purple for whatever, then just whistle or something then get over there, not that big of a deal.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

lol Ahhh Catholics

 

[Dabuz]

jewish>catholics

+1

 

[Turazrok]

lol Ahhh Catholics

Aren't you like part of the consuming fire fellowship?




http://www.consumingfirefellowship.org/Issues & Answers.htm


Crazy.

And yeah my hair was too cool for school.

Plus I don't see the difference between my pic here and there. At all.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

The what?

 

[Turazrok]

Check out the website.

 

[PSI.kick]

and why are we talking about which lines are better, imo i'd rather throw my pikmin at my opponent giving them extra crap to deal with than throw them off stage and repluck wasting 2 seconds of time, the pikmin will probably die anyway if they knock it off (especially whites...)

idk, but if i had to choose a line i'd what raspberrygrape with one (if i have two, then w/e) blue. If you see a kill opportunity or a punish and you want to use a red/blue/purple for whatever, then just whistle or something then get over there, not that big of a deal.

Sorry i had edited this in there like 5 or 6 posts after i said it xD


catholics......... O_o

 

[Zori]

your font is killing my eyes

 

[PSI.kick]

mine as well.

wifi anyone?

 

[-Vocal-]

Vox should be ashamed he couldnt figure out who I was on FB.

This V V V

Lololol that's because you're Oli profile pic smells like man, and your hair is too awesome for Catholic School.

That ^ ^ ^

guys i missed this thread. so much fun.

and why are we talking about which lines are better, imo i'd rather throw my pikmin at my opponent giving them extra crap to deal with than throw them off stage and repluck wasting 2 seconds of time, the pikmin will probably die anyway if they knock it off (especially whites...)

idk, but if i had to choose a line i'd what raspberrygrape with one (if i have two, then w/e) blue. If you see a kill opportunity or a punish and you want to use a red/blue/purple for whatever, then just whistle or something then get over there, not that big of a deal.

But you can also sort out pikmin by throwing the ones you want to get rid of at them so that they get killed

Though I'm really glad for that post Denyce made in the MK thread; I never thought of people using pikmin to refresh their attacks, so this is something that must always be kept in mind.

 

[Dabuz]

hasn't using pikmin throw to refresh attacks just something every olimar naturally did? like, seriously, its what makes olimar not need to care about move decay d:


shameless color steal