Roy's Our Boy - General Hype/Discussion Thread

[FlashingFire]

So Roy combos.

Frankly, I really really really enjoy Roy's combo game. At 0%, Fthrow > dash > regrab works against the majority of the cast, at which point I generally go for another Fthrow or a Dthrow. If I Fthrow, Ftilt is often guaranteed but will pretty much end the combo. Dash Attack is a possible follow-up, or I can tech chase or edgeguard depending on stage position. Dthrow generally sets up a tech chase, and Dtilt sets up stuff if they miss the tech. Guaranteed DED combos at low percent are nice as well, though CC is something to be wary of.

At mid-to-higher percents I look for juggles and stuff that combos into grab. This includes late Uair, DED, Dtilt, Utilt, and sourspot Dair. From there I usually Fthrow unless there's some significant stage control (or CG) to be gained from some other throw. From there I go for Dash Attack, wavedash > Fsmash, or the forever awesome DACUS.

Around 60-90% on most characters is the time I look for finishers. Fair, Dair and Uair can all lead into an Fsmash, though Uair is the easiest to pull that off with. If they wind up a little farther away from Roy, Bair and neutral B are good follow-ups. Late Uair > Dsmash can work where Fsmash would be just a few frames too slow, too.

 

[Player -0]

Tipped Dair is pretty sweet. If people DI horribly then I can chain dash attacks

Thoughts on if Roy's Up Air end lag was shortened? I know it's mostly to used to lead to a Smash or something but in the air it would be nice if we didn't have a weaker Marth Up Air with the same end lag. Maybe I'm just not using it right.

 

[GunBlaze]

Maybe I'm just not using it right.

This

 

[Player -0]

This

The point of me saying that was so someone then explained how to use it...

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Uair shouldn't be used much outside of a shffl, really, so the endlag doesn't matter as much as landing lag.
I do seem to recall that it will autocancel if full hopped onto certain platforms, but I'm a little unclear on the details so maybe someone else can elaborate.

 

[Player -0]

I think the landing lag is fine at the moment, you can use it to lead to smashes and stuff. What I'm trying to get at is asking if it would be cool to give Roy less end lag for his up air so he could do something out of it or the such. I know Roy is a ground based character but after up airing it would be nice to be able to up air in the air and not have to touch the ground or be able to do a fair follow up if your opponent isn't wary.

Of course you could go into the discussion about how up air shoulnt be used then but the reason I brought this up is because Marth has the same up air but stronger so he can juggle. Roy uses his for followups and him having the same end lag as a character who juggles versus a character who follows up from his up air seems odd.

If you disagree could you give a reason and explain what other things should be done in that situation?

I just made a weird comparison in my head of SSB64 Kirby with Roy.

 

[Yeerk]

Roy uses his for followups and him having the same end lag as a character who juggles versus a character who follows up from his up air seems odd.

That's the beauty of it.

All of Roy's aerials (except maybe bair) can be used for juggling or setting up for a smash at different percents, and it's part of the skill of using the character to know when to use each. If you're looking for a low lag aerial, use fair. You have all the tools to accomplish what you're asking for, you just have to learn to use them.

 

[Player -0]

I have a hard time seeing Roy's aerial move juggle, maybe for followups but Roy's Dair and Up Air have too much end lag for juggling, as well as being fairly weak.
You may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say

 

[Blade-Fox]

I have a hard time seeing Roy's aerial move juggle, maybe for followups but Roy's Dair and Up Air have too much end lag for juggling, as well as being fairly weak.
You may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say

Roy's U-Air is great for juggling. The sweetspot can juggle at low - mid percents and then you can switch to the sourspot for anything higher than that.

 

[Vigilante]

Up-air is decent for juggling, but you need to:

1. Hit with the sweetspot at earlier percents for enough propulsion
2. Fast fall -> L-Cancel it to reduce lag whenever possible

That one is tricky to do, and some prefer using the C-stick to do this.

Usually though, I do small but powerful strings, like a launcher, one or two follow-ups and a finisher. Mind you, there are a lot of ways to use Roy.

 

[Player -0]

Maybe I'm just not hitting the sweetspot for the up air, I tend to go for Nair or Bair if I know they're going through me.

Could I ask why Roy has the same amount of end lag to his up air as Marth though?

 

[Yeerk]

I have a hard time seeing Roy's aerial move juggle, maybe for followups but Roy's Dair and Up Air have too much end lag for juggling, as well as being fairly weak.
You may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say

It's because they're weak that they're good at juggling, especially with shffling. What is it that I don't understand? You didn't explain. You're asking for changes to a move that's fine as it is.

 

[Vigilante]

It has been a while since I checked the frame data, but I believe we wanted to improve his natural strenghts, and many Melee Roy players used Up-air for juggling purposes.

 

[Player -0]

It has been a while since I checked the frame data, but I believe we wanted to improve his natural strenghts, and many Melee Roy players used Up-air for juggling purposes.

Changing the end lag would affect juggling? Also could you list some of his strengths? I know kill power and his ability to set up for smashes. Ex: D-Tilt -> Up Air -> F-Smash.

It's because they're weak that they're good at juggling, especially with shffling. What is it that I don't understand? You didn't explain. You're asking for changes to a move that's fine as it is.

Maybe I'm not getting your definition of juggling. I'm thinking keeping your opponent in the air so you can add damage and move them into a worse position.
I'm thinking about if an opponent was more in the air and you were trying to send them somewhere and you were jumping in the air. I guess I getting that for Roy you have to play like SSB64 Kirby and get them out from directly above you for a fair or bair or just punish them really close to the ground.

 

[Yeerk]

Maybe I'm not getting your definition of juggling. I'm thinking keeping your opponent in the air so you can add damage and move them into a worse position. I'm thinking about if an opponent was more in the air and you were trying to send them somewhere and you were jumping in the air.

Yeah that's what shffling accomplishes. Uair can be used for what you just described.

Maybe I'm just not hitting the sweetspot for the up air

That's it.

 

[Player -0]

Yeah that's what shffling accomplishes. Uair can be used for what you just described.



That's it.

If you Up Air someone a considerable distance off the ground you'll probably be hitting with the tip and if you go for an up air closer to your body then a Bair just would've been better. If you hit someone with the tip then they go nowhere and you have to go to the ground while they pretty much get a free pass to the ground too.

 

[Yeerk]

If you Up Air someone a considerable distance off the ground you'll probably be hitting with the tip and if you go for an up air closer to your body then a Bair just would've been better. If you hit someone with the tip then they go nowhere and you have to go to the ground while they pretty much get a free pass to the ground too.

Shffling doesn't put you "a considerable distance off the ground". If you want to do that, just choose Marth, as he hits better with the tip.

We're still talking about juggling, right? If so, Bair is not even applicable. Uair builds percent and combos. Bair ends combos and kills. Bair is not better unless your aim is to kill or you couldn't reliably fast fall to ground fast enough to follow up on another Uair hit. I'm not sure why you mentioned Bair if your purpose is to juggle.

I highlighted your post about sweetspots, because that's what you have to do with Roy's Uair in order to juggle.

 

[Player -0]

Shffling doesn't put you "a considerable distance off the ground". If you want to do that, just choose Marth, as he hits better with the tip.

We're still talking about juggling, right? If so, Bair is not even applicable. Uair builds percent and combos. Bair ends combos and kills. Bair is not better unless your aim is to kill or you couldn't reliably fast fall to ground fast enough to follow up on another Uair hit. I'm not sure why you mentioned Bair if your purpose is to juggle.

I highlighted your post about sweetspots, because that's what you have to do with Roy's Uair in order to juggle.

My main post was about decreasing the end lag of Up air so you can follow it up with a fair or something while in the air. Also wouldn't it be better to send your enemy off the stage so you can get into an edge guard which will likely increase your opponents percent and get a kill (depending on the character)? Also could you explain where the sweetspot is?

 

[Yeerk]

My main post was about decreasing the end lag of Up air so you can follow it up with a fair or something while in the air. Also wouldn't it be better to send your enemy off the stage so you can get into an edge guard which will likely increase your opponents percent and get a kill (depending on the character)? Also could you explain where the sweetspot is?

Well I think you said it yourself, Roy's game is more ground based. IMO don't ask for changes to a character just to match your playstyle; just learn what you can and can't do with the character.

Obviously it's better to get your opponent offstage, but Bair can't do that at lower percentages where juggling is a better option.

Roy's sweetspot is always closer to his body, or the hilt of the sword.

 

[FlashingFire]

Roy is not Marth. You're not going to be able to chain multiple aerials before landing very often due to his higher fall speed. Uair should really only be used when you're going to L-cancel it on the ground or a platform shortly afterward - that way, you set your opponent up for any number of potential follow-ups such as a grab, another Uair, a Utilt, Fsmash or Dsmash. Decreasing the move's aerial endlag won't help you accomplish any of this.

Edit: Just thought of more follow-ups: Dtilt, Ftilt, DED, and a tech chase. Notice that these are all ground-based options.

 

[Player -0]

Well I think you said it yourself, Roy's game is more ground based. IMO don't ask for changes to a character just to match your playstyle; just learn what you can and can't do with the character.

Obviously it's better to get your opponent offstage, but Bair can't do that at lower percentages where juggling is a better option.

Roy's sweetspot is always closer to his body, or the hilt of the sword.

I'm not trying to change the character to match my play style....
So the Up Air sweetspot is at the hilt, I don't see how you don't get daired while you're trying to juggle.

 

[Yeerk]

I'm not trying to change the character to match my play style....
So the Up Air sweetspot is at the hilt, I don't see how you don't get daired while you're trying to juggle.

Because when you're juggling them, they're in hitstun.

 

[Player -0]

Because when you're juggling them, they're in hitstun.

But you hit them up right? So they should be no longer in hitstun by the time you're back down unless I'm mistaking up air to be more powerful.

 

[FlashingFire]

I think you need to watch some Uair juggling in action, because evidently you're not understanding it when we put it into words. It's not guaranteed, but it does work in a variety of scenarios.

 

[Player -0]

I think you need to watch some Uair juggling in action, because evidently you're not understanding it when we put it into words. It's not guaranteed, but it does work in a variety of scenarios.

I'll do that tommorrow, sleepy time. Know of any videos that have this?

 

[Yeerk]

Thanks FlashingFire.

And yes, you should have watched Fly Amanita vs Sethlon today. The FD match had about 8 Uairs in a row. You can't tell me there would have been a better move for him to use there.

 

[Player -0]

I'll check the Apex videos on youtube later, thinking about watching Apex but wanting to play too.

I was originally talking about the endlag and not juggling, It's weird how topics change.

 

[TheAmputee]

Congrats to Sethlon, great showing! Top 8 at apex.

P.S. Dude you are the reason I picked this character up ever since melee. Thank you for such a great performance today.

 

[Generalardj]

If only Sethlon vs M2K was Bo5, it could be a nice show.
Anyway, awesome matches Sethlon!

 

[FireBall Stars]

Shoutouts to Sethlon for being awesome.

Great job mang!

 

[jtm94]

Do grabs refresh jumps? I grabbed my buddy when he was using Roy out of the air and he didn't have jumps refreshed?

 

[FlashingFire]

If he didn't touch the ground, he didn't refresh his jump.

 

[Yeerk]

If he didn't touch the ground, he didn't refresh his jump.

That's not true...

 

[jtm94]

So do grabs refresh jumps or not?
It was a really clear situation where I backthrew him and he didn't die from the knockback, he just fell like a rock because he had no jumps.

 

[GunBlaze]

So do grabs refresh jumps or not?

In Melee and Project M this is true.

 

[jtm94]

I will post more info if it happens again so it can be looked into.

 

[GunBlaze]

Question: Does Counter still have the silly spike angles?

 

[Blade-Fox]

Question: Does Counter still have the silly spike angles?

Unfortunately no.

 

[GunBlaze]

Unfortunately no.

I asked because if this:

Roy briefly flashes while entering a stance, allowing him to counterattack within the first few frames of animation. Opponents that attack Roy will be struck back with more damage dealt to them. Moderate start lag with high end lag, and slows Roy down in mid-air. At the sweetspot, near the base, there is a chance that the opponent may go into an upside-down "V" when hit, however, this doesn't happen at the sourspot. It also causes a flame effect.

 

[Kally Wally]

That happenes due to a glitch in Melee, called the invisible ceiling. It's caused by a grounded attack being interrupted during a certain window of time, IIRC.