Roy's Our Boy - General Hype/Discussion Thread

[Shadic]

It's also easy to tell what order characters were added to the Melee roster by looking at the in-game files.

 

[ilikcereal101]

so totally new to Roy but i've played with him, and Marth and they both feel really good in my hands. I'm not sure which one to play because i'm not even completely sure of my play style. i enjoy a semi aggressive charizard play in smash four, maybe that will help. i'll try to figure it out myself but if you guys could help me that would be awesome, now excuse back to Apex

 

[Brim]

so totally new to Roy but i've played with him, and Marth and they both feel really good in my hands. I'm not sure which one to play because i'm not even completely sure of my play style. i enjoy a semi aggressive charizard play in smash four, maybe that will help. i'll try to figure it out myself but if you guys could help me that would be awesome, now excuse back to Apex

You might want to stick with Marth if you play semi-aggressively, I'll be one of those to admit I'm probably one of the only-semi-aggressive Roys' out there, but Marth is more reliant on the not as aggressive play. But, really your choice. I think someone is better qualified than me with this though.
Truth be told, I'm mostly saying Marth because he doesn't go in as aggressively as Roy, where he just needs to make sure his spacing is proper. Roy doesn't need to worry about that as much, but obviously is still a very relevant part of his game.

 

[Broccoli]

so totally new to Roy but i've played with him, and Marth and they both feel really good in my hands. I'm not sure which one to play because i'm not even completely sure of my play style. i enjoy a semi aggressive charizard play in smash four, maybe that will help. i'll try to figure it out myself but if you guys could help me that would be awesome, now excuse back to Apex

Neither of the characters are aggressive in the neutral. Roy's punish game is better than Marth's where Marth has better movement options than roy.

Both characters control the space around them very well and look for openings in the opponents defenses. Marth has a hard time killing if you aren't experienced, whereas Roy has the ability to kill early (stupid early on smaller stages like Warioware and Yoshis melee). Their play styles are similar but differ in many ways.

Try both and see which you like.

 

[Player -0]

Marth has better movement options?

 

[ilikcereal101]

So then maybe there not for me thanks

 

[Player -0]

I'd advise playing through most of the characters and watching videos of top players playing the characters (There's a thread dedicated for this in the general discussion of P:M). Remember even if you watch those videos, you can play in whatever style you like. For example if this were Melee: Armada plays YLink very campy and bomb heavy while Axe plays a very quick and aerial based YLink. There isn't only 1 style to play a character.

 

[Broccoli]

Marth has better movement options?

Better wavedash and a better DD.

 

[Player -0]

Longer WD sure but that's still a fairly small factor. Not sure when you say DD though. They're both similar.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Marth runs significantly faster, and that's basically all he needs to have better movement.

 

[Player -0]

Significantly? Marth barely runs faster than Roy. The difference is the same as Diddy to MK.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Which is still significant? Diddy vs. MK is a bad comparison anyways because their initial dash speed is about equal. Marth is just straight faster than Roy on the ground, by ~10%. Doesn't mean it's a huge game changer, but it is significant.

 

[Broccoli]

As PsionicSabreur said, the difference in movement speed is significant enough to give Marth the better DD, and his long WD coupled with his faster movement makes his ground movement significantly better than Roy's.

It's cool though, cause Roy's got the better punish/combo game and has more reliable kill moves than Marth.

 

[Smolder]

So. Have any of you guys tried to seriously use DED OoS in some actual matches? It's actually really good. I play against a Mewtwo all the time and one of his staple pressure options is hover bair --> crossup hover nair to either a hover cancel dtilt or confusion. I found that DED OoS can come instantly after his bair and is the maximum punish out of all of my OoS options. This option has also proven to be extremely useful in those small situations where both you and your opponent have your backs to eachother with your shields on. Due to the nature of your DED, you now have the advantage in this situation, because a DED on the back someone's shield is free pressure with a possible hard punish. Now that you're DED'ing the back of their shield, they have to either commit to rolling back, in, or stay in shield and hope it doesn't break from your >xvv shield breaker combo. If they roll back, a xxx> will catch them. If they roll in, a xxx< will catch them and if they stay in shield, just break it or try to get a shield stab. Sure the one-frame window to use this tech is a little bit offsetting, but I find that the button layout on the controller gives you the perfect amount of time to land this tech. Last night, I was landing that 1-frame window very consistently and getting some great punishes, or outright kills, with it. Just keep in mind that this, with other OoS options, has its limits. You have to know when you can and can't use it or you'll just get stuffed while attempting to come OoS. What do you guys think? Could this move actually be competitively viable?

 

[Binary Clone]

So. Have any of you guys tried to seriously use DED OoS in some actual matches? It's actually really good. I play against a Mewtwo all the time and one of his staple pressure options is hover bair --> crossup hover nair to either a hover cancel dtilt or confusion. I found that DED OoS can come instantly after his bair and is the maximum punish out of all of my OoS options. This option has also proven to be extremely useful in those small situations where both you and your opponent have your backs to eachother with your shields on. Due to the nature of your DED, you now have the advantage in this situation, because a DED on the back someone's shield is free pressure with a possible hard punish. Now that you're DED'ing the back of their shield, they have to either commit to rolling back, in, or stay in shield and hope it doesn't break from your >xvv shield breaker combo. If they roll back, a xxx> will catch them. If they roll in, a xxx< will catch them and if they stay in shield, just break it or try to get a shield stab. Sure the one-frame window to use this tech is a little bit offsetting, but I find that the button layout on the controller gives you the perfect amount of time to land this tech. Last night, I was landing that 1-frame window very consistently and getting some great punishes, or outright kills, with it. Just keep in mind that this, with other OoS options, has its limits. You have to know when you can and can't use it or you'll just get stuffed while attempting to come OoS. What do you guys think? Could this move actually be competitively viable?

It's good, but difficult.

I was talking to Sethlon about this a couple weeks ago on the Skype group briefly. He said that DED OoS is "something that sounds amazing down the line, when someone masters it... [but it] has the same problem as aerials OoS" in that it still loses to CC and isn't really safe on shield. But compared to his other OoS options, DED has a lot of good range and really good potential rewards, especially since you can do it to either side, including behind yourself.

It also comes out on frame 11, which, for Roy, is pretty good, but that still loses to a lot of stuff.

 

[Smolder]

It's good, but difficult.

I was talking to Sethlon about this a couple weeks ago on the Skype group briefly. He said that DED OoS is "something that sounds amazing down the line, when someone masters it... [but it] has the same problem as aerials OoS" in that it still loses to CC and isn't really safe on shield. But compared to his other OoS options, DED has a lot of good range and really good potential rewards, especially since you can do it to either side, including behind yourself.

It also comes out on frame 11, which, for Roy, is pretty good, but that still loses to a lot of stuff.

I can see where you're coming from when you say "But it can be CC'd", but could you imagine if Roy actually had an OoS aerial that couldn't? I feel like the rewards outweigh the risks in this matter. As long as you use this tool wisely and intelligently, you may actually be able to catch someone midair so they cannot CC you. A good example would be the Mewtwo's hover pressure I was talking about earlier. There was, in no way, he could CC that DED because he was up just a little too high to touch the ground. And what makes it unsafe on shields? I personally think Roy's DED is one of his only safe options on shields. A well-spaced >>>< helps him to avoid shield grabs and whatnot. If they try to follow it with a wavedash OoS, you can actually catch them with a pivot grab or fsmash. I can see the risks though. I feel that this is just a vastly unexplored option along with Roy's godly shield drop uair. (Started using that recently and it has net me tons of combos, counter pressure situations, and even kills)

On a side note: What do you guys think of trying to eliminate dtilt out of your gameplay for a day to see what your other approach options and combo possibilities are? I tried this once and I actually found myself not going on autopilot as much because I actually had to think about my approaches and I couldn't just cc dtilt everything.

 

[Player -0]

Up-B OoS, screw the CC'ers.

Eliminating D-Tilt out of your gameplay sounds bad. Knowing what other options you have and being able to use them is important too. I play multiple characters so autopilot is lel.

 

[Smolder]

Up-B OoS, screw the CC'ers.

Eliminating D-Tilt out of your gameplay sounds bad. Knowing what other options you have and being able to use them is important too. I play multiple characters so autopilot is lel.

I'm not saying to eliminate it out of your gameplay completely. Just try playing without it for a day and see how you do. Dtilt is an awesome tool, but it tends to be more of a crutch, which causes people to rely on it too often. This is why you see a bunch of Roys who hate the Spacy MU. That MU should be really easy for Roy as long as he doesn't try to CC dtilt everything. What I'm trying to say is that dtilt can easily make someone a little bit worse because it is too good of an option... If that makes any sense.

 

[Player -0]

I know what you mean, I said it above.

Knowing what other options you have and being able to use them is important too.

 

[Azureflames]

I can see where you're coming from when you say "But it can be CC'd", but could you imagine if Roy actually had an OoS aerial that couldn't? I feel like the rewards outweigh the risks in this matter. As long as you use this tool wisely and intelligently, you may actually be able to catch someone midair so they cannot CC you. A good example would be the Mewtwo's hover pressure I was talking about earlier. There was, in no way, he could CC that DED because he was up just a little too high to touch the ground. And what makes it unsafe on shields? I personally think Roy's DED is one of his only safe options on shields. A well-spaced >>>< helps him to avoid shield grabs and whatnot. If they try to follow it with a wavedash OoS, you can actually catch them with a pivot grab or fsmash. I can see the risks though. I feel that this is just a vastly unexplored option along with Roy's godly shield drop uair. (Started using that recently and it has net me tons of combos, counter pressure situations, and even kills)

I can see what you mean...in my head it really seems to depends on the MU. I feel like it depends on the characters OOS options, speed, and current percentage. Seems like it can either net decent results but doesn't always seem safe. If you xx> into xxx> depending on the character (maybe like falcon, roy, or marth) they could probably just WD OOS > shield the xxx> hit> pivot grab if they have a fresh shield. Maybe even buffering a roll after the second hit could get yourself out of it safely. If you reacted to their WD you could xxx< instead and reverse it but they'd be able to punish with a grab most likely. Someone like fox could wait til after your second or third hit and just shine OOS if you aren't really well spaced (if you got in the situation to use this reverse DED OOS there's no real tell or guarentee for good spacing either); it overall seems pretty niche but i by no means want to discredit it. I think in situations of covering crossups against people that lack good OOS options it can definitely do some solid work.

On a side note: What do you guys think of trying to eliminate dtilt out of your gameplay for a day to see what your other approach options and combo possibilities are? I tried this once and I actually found myself not going on autopilot as much because I actually had to think about my approaches and I couldn't just cc dtilt everything.

This is actually a really interesting approach to training mentality. I find that dtilt has been so ingrained into my muscle memory over the past half year that i do it way too predictably after things like Fair (it's just such a perfect 1-2 punch combo that strings into anything i cant help it haha). Been picking up a lot more melee recently too so i've been noticing myself do that much more as marth and it really doesn't work compared to a lot of other options. Once i started consciously doing it less i found myself playing much smarter and not trying to just sit in cc getting hit like a dumbass.

I've even found myself building better habits for dash-dancing mindgames and forcing myself to grab much more. For how good Dtilt is, i can see it being a pretty easy move to crutch yourself on, especially as a low or mid level roy.

 

[Player -0]

Don't forget about DACUS. It'll help you vs. floaties, specifically Puff. Mix up with a tomahawk, F-Tilt pokes spaced well are cool. Wavebounce some stuff as a SHFF approach.

Edit - If you get a read on an OoS option/grab then charge the spaced wavebounce nB lol.

 

[Smolder]

Don't forget about DACUS. It'll help you vs. floaties, specifically Puff. Mix up with a tomahawk, F-Tilt pokes spaced well are cool. Wavebounce some stuff as a SHFF approach.

Edit - If you get a read on an OoS option/grab then charge the spaced wavebounce nB lol.

Wavebounce nB is actually pretty fun to use. It's kind of similar to wavelanding after getting caught by a falco laser midair; it can throw off their spacing just enough to possibly get a punish.

 

[QuickLava]

Just landed sweetspotted d-air --> ledge cancel --> sweetspotted d-air --> d-tilt --> footstool --> b-air. My life is complete.

 

[LonkQ]

Am I going crazy or does Roy run faster than Marth now? I keep testing on Training Stage, and Roy can chase Marth, but when Marth chases Roy he slowly falls behind. Same thing with Sheik.

Nah, guess I was going crazy. Never use a Wiimote to test things.

 

[GunBuster]

So I've been playing around with the OTHER Roy in Smash Wii U since his release. with how different pretty much all of his attacks and animations are from Marth now, I can't help but want the PMDT to go over maybe 1 or 2 of his existing animations in Project: M, as they have done between patches with other characters before. I'm not saying I want them to copy and paste moves back from SmashU (though I would KILL for the new Fsmash), but maybe a redo of some of the animations he still shares with Marth isn't uncalled for.

IMO The only thing they should absolutely do is use the re-recorded voicework.

 

[Brim]

So I've been playing around with the OTHER Roy in Smash Wii U since his release. with how different pretty much all of his attacks and animations are from Marth now, I can't help but want the PMDT to go over maybe 1 or 2 of his existing animations in Project: M, as they have done between patches with other characters before. I'm not saying I want them to copy and paste moves back from SmashU (though I would KILL for the new Fsmash), but maybe a redo of some of the animations he still shares with Marth isn't uncalled for.

IMO The only thing they should absolutely do is use the re-recorded voicework.

This'd be nice. Highly unlikely they'll go through that extra effort mostly because I assume it's a lot of work to change the animations. Personally I'm not a big fan of Smash 4 Roy, he plays amazing, but to me it feels weird having a tilt that feels shorter than my forward smash.

 

[Deus]

This'd be nice. Highly unlikely they'll go through that extra effort mostly because I assume it's a lot of work to change the animations. Personally I'm not a big fan of Smash 4 Roy, he plays amazing, but to me it feels weird having a tilt that feels shorter than my forward smash.

And his dtilt not popping people up just annoys the bejesus out of me.

 

[GunBuster]

This'd be nice. Highly unlikely they'll go through that extra effort mostly because I assume it's a lot of work to change the animations.

well, like i said, they do minor/major edits to some animations on characters to simply change how they look without altering how they function every now and then (eg Ganondorf's UpTilt 3.2 -> 3.5), just some things like that.

 

[Brim]

well, like i said, they do minor/major edits to some animations on characters to simply change how they look without altering how they function every now and then (eg Ganondorf's UpTilt 3.2 -> 3.5), just some things like that.

Oh, sorry I actually misread your post. I earlier thought you meant redo some of his animations to match Sm4sh Roy's animations. But right now, I think it's fine. I think it'd help if you cleared up what animations in particular you'd like them to go over.