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Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

Schnizzle Fits

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 23, 2015
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A Taco Stand
So I was looking at Sethlons Match vs Bayonetta and I think that MU may be alot less jarring as Sheik as Roy can shut down one of Bayonettas options and force the pace of the match to a degree in his favor, timing required. Roy should win if Bayonetta tries to Heel Slide as Roy can just Blazer super armor though it. The air version might be harder to read.

On your note Lady Kuki, Roy yelling is an important part of Roy for me. His Melee yelling is better than his Smash 4 ones, but over all his VA did such a great job in Smash 4 that I consider it better. I mean look up Ike's english VA, he clearly forgot his Ike voice and Roy's VA comes back almost 15 years later and does it perfectly.
 

Lady Kuki

Smash Journeyman
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So I was looking at Sethlons Match vs Bayonetta and I think that MU may be alot less jarring as Sheik as Roy can shut down one of Bayonettas options and force the pace of the match to a degree in his favor, timing required. Roy should win if Bayonetta tries to Heel Slide as Roy can just Blazer super armor though it. The air version might be harder to read.

On your note Lady Kuki, Roy yelling is an important part of Roy for me. His Melee yelling is better than his Smash 4 ones, but over all his VA did such a great job in Smash 4 that I consider it better. I mean look up Ike's english VA, he clearly forgot his Ike voice and Roy's VA comes back almost 15 years later and does it perfectly.
Well with the Bayo matchup it depends: Is Aerolink an experienced Bayo? If he is, then yeah I can see this matchup being possible for Roy. Even if Sethlon did happen to fight a Pink Fresh-level Bayo, I think he could manage, although I imagine that it will be much MUCH harder for him. At least top tiers look beatable now for Roy. Sonic is probably the only top tier at the moment where I think Roy may have a lot of trouble.

Well Jason Adkins is probably some random guy they found, whereas Jun Fukuyama is a professional voice actor. I only know Adkins for voicing Ike, while Fukuyama has been known for voicing several other characters. I think because of that, Fukuyama may have a much better time with voice consistency.

I always thought Fukuyama's voice for Roy was spot on. Before even seeing Roy in Melee, I looked up pictures of him. When I heard his voice, he sounded exactly how I imagined Roy to sound. It's wild.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
Well, nothing you can do now. I personally reckon if I was in your position, i'd have still sent the email and not regret it. We are just trying to give our opinion to a problem that is effecting us. It's no different that say if you sent a letter the Government or whoever big boss person you can think to help improve the way of your life or activities

True story, I once sent an email to nintendo asking them to bring back young link. full moveset included

:135:
Even if we don't get buffs, the best is to move on and adapt on whatever it comes next, at least we can say we don't have a wet noodle like in melee :p
I don't remember typing the top sentence, I'm wondering if my post was tampered with or if I embarassingly left it as a draft when I went full emo yesterday morning. Most likely tampered.

Either way it's really embarassing. I wanted to get that out of the way before I typed more replies or looked more at the thread.
 

JCav

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Michigan
Sonic is probably the only top tier at the moment where I think Roy may have a lot of trouble.
A campy Sonic COULD be a tough matchup, I've never played one so I can't be the judge of that. My regular training partner is LouRich (PR #7 in Michigan, and a Sonic main). His style is much more aggressive, and I think Roy handles this pretty well. LouRich even told me that he would prefer to go Cloud against Roy because of the sword.

The thing that makes Sonic tough is he can either read gimp your recovery at pretty low % with back air, or keep shooting springs while you try to recover.

Imo it's an even matchup but like I said, that opinion could change against a campy Sonic.
 

Lady Kuki

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A campy Sonic COULD be a tough matchup, I've never played one so I can't be the judge of that. My regular training partner is LouRich (PR #7 in Michigan, and a Sonic main). His style is much more aggressive, and I think Roy handles this pretty well. LouRich even told me that he would prefer to go Cloud against Roy because of the sword.

The thing that makes Sonic tough is he can either read gimp your recovery at pretty low % with back air, or keep shooting springs while you try to recover.

Imo it's an even matchup but like I said, that opinion could change against a campy Sonic.
Yeah my opinion on the Sonic/Roy matchup may be a little skewed since I fought probably one of the best Sonic players in my state. It was by friendlies too.

I did manage to almost beat a Sonic with Roy though; the only reason why I lost was because I got nervous and screwed up my recovery. It is possible that the Sonic matchup isn't as bad as we say it is.
 
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Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
78 entrants for Wii U on Saturday, more coming due to sign-ups eventually being fixed. I'm pumped!!!!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LQxBPlcwIpdro1M2yDCMuy79mLlSOeMhUHdtU4sOKbg/edit#gid=0

I'll see how I fare with just Roy and how I can improve afterwards. My next four days are going to be a lot of pure grind.

Yo, thanks for the shoutout :bee:
My Roy has leveled up quite a bit recently and I've learned quite a few tricks from this forum so thanks to you guys. My state has an Arcadian on Saturday and I'm really hoping to show everyone what Roy can do.

As far as Roy buffs go, my list has two things:

1) Down-air sweetspot. My god the sweetspot for this move is so small, it's laughable. It could almost be the entire blade if you ask me, the move is so slow (hits on frame 16). In my opinion, this is Roy's worst move, the only move comparable to this would be down smash. I've only ever seen Sethlon use dair, and he somehow makes it look good. I think he got 3rd at the last Shockwave, check these out. The commentators say, "Sethlon doesn't play Smash, he plays Roy" lmao.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5To-wNxD-rhP1AGkuoUYYkj

2) Marth and Lucina's jab hits on frame 3, just imagine how AMAZING this would be for Roy. His neutral is decent imo, but this would totally take care of that and give Roy a true "get off me move."
Yeah, I'll go for something cool to spike and then just pop them back onto the stage with the sourspot a lot of the time lolol. It gave the funniest stage spike once, I hope I upload it before the next patch since it's in a sea of replays. I would agree it's likely his worst move, and I agree with some of Sethlon's uses of it but not most of his. It feels like there isn't really incentive to use dair or dsmash, besides trying to directly force usage out of them.
The recent shockwave is on my to watch list, I'm pretty glad Sethlon beat Denti, iggy, and some other Bayonetta and it took Mew2 to knock him into loser's and Awestin to knock him out of tournament iirc. That's pretty impressive, and I recall him being back-and-forth with Awestin beforehand and having at least one win against Mew2 in the past.

His gameplay's looking a lot cleaner as time passes, for sure. But I'm not gonna let him leave me in the dust >:)

Sending some kind of email is the wrong thing to do and puts you in a bad mentality

Pining for buffs won't help. Learn matchups and outplay your opponent with the tools you have lol
Yeah, I feel like people have this needed perfect vision of their character, and they get so caught up in it that they can't work with the tools they have. I gave into that mindset and faltered. But I'm out of it for now and going to train hard to see what I can do in the next four days.

Yeaaaaaah at this point, it's up to the balance team to decide whether Roy is worthy of buffs or not. While I do believe that constant complaints have gotten certain characters buffs and nerfs (Ex: Mewtwo, MK, Ike, Sheik etc.), it may not have as big as an effect as we may believe. It's a tad depressing to speak about Roy buffs because it's entirely possible that this may either be the last patch, or that Roy will be untouched in the patches to come. When talking about Roy's buffs, the whole discussion becomes completely hypothetical. Theorizing is always nice, but too much theorizing get depressing after a while. Think of the whole "the grass is always greener on the other side" mentality. That's what I think of Roy buffs and tier lists atm. "Oh, look at Mewtwo! I bet you that if Roy had buffs that big, he'd win a national too!" Stuff like that is just discouraging. The best thing to do right now is to use Roy to the best of your ability and mitigate some of the glaring flaws he may have. We can't control how and when Roy will be buffed, but we can control how well he could perform in tournament play.

Anyway, I want to move onto a entire topic completely. I want to talk about a topic I have barely seen in this thread: Roy's personality.

Barring FE6's lack of amazing writing and character depth (mostly due to the older, awkward translations), what type of personality do you think Roy may have? His personality type may not vary for some people as much as I think it does, but I'll give you my thoughts anyway:

While I do feel that Roy isn't incredibly written as a character (again, blame video game writing and poor translation), I do feel like some things are implied, such as his insecurity.


For example, in one of the supports with Lance, he says the following line:
"I’m not particularly smart, and I don’t have much charisma, either. So I have to gain trust by experiencing the pain that everyone else is…"
Such line implies that he is insecure deep down inside. Not very surprised at this. After all, he's just a fifteen year-old boy. Imagine if you had to lead an army at the age of fifteen. Must be pretty heavy handed stuff there.

How does this line imply that he is insecure exactly? Can't find any other quotes atm (haven't played FE6; I've only seen playthroughs), but Roy is capable of being a good tactician. How else would he be able to stop Zephiel if he wasn't a good tactician? Lol. He is also perceptive to the point where he finds out the bard character's identity; the bard guy doesn't even have to say. Roy just comes up with his own conclusion. Has to take some amount of intelligence to figure out someone's identity or to stop the big bad from taking over the world, right?

Now this is where things start to get reaaally subjective. I at least added a line from the game to back up my last argument, but this part is pretty much my opinion at this point: Roy feels kind of stern to me for some reason. I feel like Roy has a stern personality because of the way he is usually depicted in artwork. I almost always see him with a serious look on his face. Whenever I see Roy smile, he doesn't look incredibly happy, he just looks pleased. I especially think this of Roy because of Eliwood. Eliwood appears to be less stern to me because he is usually smiling and when he isn't smiling, he looks a bit uncomfortable. His eyes are still wide open; the eyes look emotional, but the eyebrows' position and his mouth do not. It's almost as if Eliwood doesn't want to be angry.

Because of the way he's depicted as Smash, I feel like Roy is the type of person to transition from a calm and composed character to a hotblooded and easily excitable one when in war. Before fighting, Roy to me still behaves kind of similarly to how he behaves in FE6; if you look at Roy's Melee and SSB4 render (the SSB4 render practically being a "remake" of the original), he looks relaxed. He's not doing a crazy or dynamic pose. He's just standing with his sword tucked in his sheath. Whenever his victory screen arrives, he goes back to his calm state. He doesn't yell or swing his sword around as violently as he would do in battle.

Lol look at me. I'm such a geek. What am I typing this long character analysis for? XD
Yeah, I got pretty discouraged by Mewtwo. I thought I'd be really happy hearing about Mewtwo winning a major, but I just felt really irritated. Abandango winning a national with Mewtwo when he thinks Roy is bottom 5 and pretty much a useless character made me really, really salty for no good reason and agree with all the negativity that's been piling up. But I'm over it now. Whether we see treatment or not for Roy, he still has things going for him such as being the most mobile swordsman, and a swordsman packing that much power for that frame data, which is pretty cool and unique. I don't know whether Roy has anything going for using him over other swordsmen besides liking his design and character or not, but I'll let others worry about that if they want to. I just want to play Roy, give to the community, motivate other people to play Roy and improve as players, and have a good time.
When I hit certain lows, I act in a contrary manner to my goals, which is why I need to work every day to find a healthy balance between my extreme highs and lows.

I feel that Roy's inexperience and insecurity give him a lot of room to develop, and he becomes a very capable leader through the last stretch of the game, giving him great character development that most lords don't measure up to. I'm not saying that other lords can't be as entertaining to any given player, but they often aren't given as much room to develop in a similar way. Many don't grow as much as Roy does throughout his story. Take for example Eirika and Ephraim, they don't really grow as characters or learn anything important to improve themselves through the entirety of FE8. Eirika doesn't really grow into a stronger person, Ephraim doesn't learn anything from his recklessness and brash nature.
It's basically Mary and Gary dream team up to find the pocket-sized dragonballs to restore the world's balance and beat up their effeminate best friend who became a bara demon by using holy toothpicks in comparison to his stature that still trivialize him as a villain.
FE8 has many contrived plot devices and odd pacing, with a lot of primary focus on lore, side kingdoms, and their characters, which hurts potential MC development even more.

Roy's banter with Zephiel and Idenn is pretty entertaining, and I really do enjoy some of his supports. He's pretty humble and down-to-earth, enough to set him apart from other Fire Emblem main characters.

Roy's character is much better in the newest FE6 translation, and the writing is much better. Characters of nobility speak in a more eloquent (and at times, entertainingly snotty like in Clarine's case) manner, mercenaries and bandits speak in more rough tones, and the characters who fall between a medium of the two have an interesting balance. The exposition of Elibe's geography and how the different groups or characters progress between chapters is a lot more rich, and just.... so much is nicer. The menus look a lot nicer, and the writing is a lot nicer than before. I have yet to finish this new translation, but I've been nothing but impressed so far after so many playthroughs on the old translation. Everyone feels much more in-character.

As for writing: Do I feel Roy is a well-written character? Definitely, he has objective factors within writing that make him a good character, but just good. He's not a great or amazingly-written character in literature overall, but no lords in Fire Emblem are. They just aren't life changing characters who spout an amazing line every time they speak, they're just good/okay-ish at best.
As much as people praise Hector's character, and while I love him (enough to value him as one of my top 5-10 personal lords, but not hop on the train where people invalidate other lords because of him), he's pretty much just a cliche brute who doesn't say anything truly provocative, and he has some neat development as a character, but it's little and unappetizing. How quick Hector is to kill when he's first introduced was a bit off-putting and made me uncomfortable, similar to the bloodlust of Camilla, Reina, and Hans in Fates. It feels weird when people try to justify that kind of bloodlust.

Western players care more about violent or constantly energetic main characters than how well-written a character is, which I guess I kinda understand but can't bring myself to respect.

I'm used to lords being either downplayed or overhyped, and if people want more interesting main characters or don't like a lot of the ones in Fire Emblem, there's honestly other strategy RPG series out there such as Shining Force and Super Robot Wars to look into. As it stands, I really like Roy's character and design a lot more than anyone's in Smash, and Smash isn't exactly host to the most amazingly-written or designed characters in the universe, so I will proudly play Roy until I die.

As a side note, I really love how Smash 4 Roy seems more loyal to FE6's canon than Melee. It's cool that both have their own depiction of what a Master Lord is, since his armor doesn't change on promotion.

In Melee, he has noodle arms, some weird brownish-red spiky hair, some weird metal headband, and he's short and skinny.

In Smash 4, he's more well-built (take a look at how built Roy is in his FE6 sprites), he has bright red messy hair, he has a cloth headband, and his expressions are more defined. He also has more FE6 palettes than just ones for Allen and Lance, he's got 6 other freaking characters. I never thought I'd see the day he'd get official Marcus, Eliwood, Cecilia, and Zephiel palettes on top of his gold and Allen+Lance ones, they all look really nice.
even if red and gold don't look nearly as good as before......

So I was looking at Sethlons Match vs Bayonetta and I think that MU may be alot less jarring as Sheik as Roy can shut down one of Bayonettas options and force the pace of the match to a degree in his favor, timing required. Roy should win if Bayonetta tries to Heel Slide as Roy can just Blazer super armor though it. The air version might be harder to read.

On your note Lady Kuki, Roy yelling is an important part of Roy for me. His Melee yelling is better than his Smash 4 ones, but over all his VA did such a great job in Smash 4 that I consider it better. I mean look up Ike's english VA, he clearly forgot his Ike voice and Roy's VA comes back almost 15 years later and does it perfectly.
Rage Roy vs. Bayo is so funny. Kills her at 80 or less with up smash LOL. Roy has a lot to establish control on the ground, and if he stays there and forces Bayonetta to play his game, it puts a lot of work into the matchup. I'm more comfy with the matchup as time passes and don't really mind it. I'm just annoyed by the power creep of Witch Time and how it affects the matchup, but everyone is annoyed by it anyways. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Our counter helps against her, too, we can counter her recovery hitboxes and bullet arts. Swords beat guns pretty handily.
 
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JCav

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Michigan
78 entrants for Wii U on Saturday, more coming due to sign-ups eventually being fixed. I'm pumped!!!!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LQxBPlcwIpdro1M2yDCMuy79mLlSOeMhUHdtU4sOKbg/edit#gid=0

I'll see how I fare with just Roy and how I can improve afterwards. My next four days are going to be a lot of pure grind.


Yeah, I got pretty discouraged by Mewtwo. I thought I'd be really happy hearing about Mewtwo winning a major, but I just felt really irritated. Abandango winning a national with Mewtwo when he thinks Roy is bottom 5 and pretty much a useless character made me really, really salty for no good reason and agree with all the negativity that's been piling up.
1) I glanced at that spreadsheet, I noticed my boy Ludi is on there. I went to Michigan State with him before he moved out there, tell him I said what's up lol. He's a very good Greninja player btw.

2) I'd like to address what you said about Abadango and Mewtwo. As you might be able to tell, I faithfully played Wolf in Brawl. I distinctly remember Seagull Joe once saying "Wolf is the worst good character in the game." I agree with this completely and I think Roy shares a few similarities with Wolf. I think they both do much better against the top of the cast than most people think, but they have some glaring weaknesses. They both have an exploitable recovery, and can be easily combo'd because of their fall speed. Wolf gets absolutely bodied by every chain in the game, where Roy's biggest weakness imo is projectiles. (I have rant about how Wolf would be a perfect co-main for Roy, but I'll save it lol)

The point that I'm trying to make is that I think Roy is better than a lot of people think. I always think at rage percents that I'm just a solid f-smash away from stealing a game. Also, I think this character is massively underrepresented. Serew Serew has made some really solid videos about various Roy tech and tricks which is exactly what Roy needs. I think Roy in this patch absolutely has the ability to jump in the tier list.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
So many big text.

Too much to read...

Sending some kind of email is the wrong thing to do and puts you in a bad mentality

Pining for buffs won't help. Learn matchups and outplay your opponent with the tools you have lol
Eh, I find anything wrong with it. Doesn't really hurt anyone one tbh

Yo, thanks for the shoutout :bee:
My Roy has leveled up quite a bit recently and I've learned quite a few tricks from this forum so thanks to you guys. My state has an Arcadian on Saturday and I'm really hoping to show everyone what Roy can do.

As far as Roy buffs go, my list has two things:

1) Down-air sweetspot. My god the sweetspot for this move is so small, it's laughable. It could almost be the entire blade if you ask me, the move is so slow (hits on frame 16). In my opinion, this is Roy's worst move, the only move comparable to this would be down smash. I've only ever seen Sethlon use dair, and he somehow makes it look good. I think he got 3rd at the last Shockwave, check these out. The commentators say, "Sethlon doesn't play Smash, he plays Roy" lmao.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5To-wNxD-rhP1AGkuoUYYkj

2) Marth and Lucina's jab hits on frame 3, just imagine how AMAZING this would be for Roy. His neutral is decent imo, but this would totally take care of that and give Roy a true "get off me move."
Actually, plus damage increase, these are 2 things I really want. Seriously why is it so hard to hit his Dair spike hitbox when it already has very little range? It just doesn't make sense

Also, I though Marth and Lucina's jabs were frame 4?

:135:
 

TimG57867

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
513
At the risk of annoying you guys, I wanted to post here to say that the SWF Community Tier List contributors seem to be having a debate about Roy at the moment. In general Roy seems to be one of the more looked down upon characters there (and in general for that matter).

http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-4th-april.379736/page-260

I don't think a lot of experienced Roy users give input in that thread so if you guys have anything you'd want to share to enlighten the community now would be a good time. Of course you can also just ignore this debate. Given the general Roy stigma I really couldn't blame you.

EDIT: For the record, Roy's currently in the second to last tier. Make of that what you will.
 
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The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
At the risk of annoying you guys, I wanted to post here to say that the SWF Community Tier List contributors seem to be having a debate about Roy at the moment. In general Roy seems to be one of the more looked down upon characters there (and in general for that matter).

http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-4th-april.379736/page-260

I don't think a lot of experienced Roy users give input in that thread so if you guys have anything you'd want to share to enlighten the community now would be a good time. Of course you can also just ignore this debate. Given the general Roy stigma I really couldn't blame you.

EDIT: For the record, Roy's currently in the second to last tier. Make of that what you will.
le sigh....

:135:
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440
At the risk of annoying you guys, I wanted to post here to say that the SWF Community Tier List contributors seem to be having a debate about Roy at the moment. In general Roy seems to be one of the more looked down upon characters there (and in general for that matter).

http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-4th-april.379736/page-260

I don't think a lot of experienced Roy users give input in that thread so if you guys have anything you'd want to share to enlighten the community now would be a good time. Of course you can also just ignore this debate. Given the general Roy stigma I really couldn't blame you.

EDIT: For the record, Roy's currently in the second to last tier. Make of that what you will.
Yeah, no. Not going anywhere near that. I don't mind talking about Roy with people that care, but like, that kind of discussion is kinda toxic, and just filled with opinions, especially opinions from people that don't play the characters and don't always know how they operate. I'd much rather devote my time and energy to playing lol.

TBH that opinion is everywhere now, so I kinda just want to talk about things that are not tier lists or patch buffs here. x.x I think I might be the only one though.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
Yeah, no. Not going anywhere near that. I don't mind talking about Roy with people that care, but like, that kind of discussion is kinda toxic, and just filled with opinions, especially opinions from people that don't play the characters and don't always know how they operate. I'd much rather devote my time and energy to playing lol.

TBH that opinion is everywhere now, so I kinda just want to talk about things that are not tier lists or patch buffs here. x.x I think I might be the only one though.
Well ****

Cause I think I accident;y started an argument I didn't want to.

:135:
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
At the risk of annoying you guys, I wanted to post here to say that the SWF Community Tier List contributors seem to be having a debate about Roy at the moment. In general Roy seems to be one of the more looked down upon characters there (and in general for that matter).

http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-votes-updated-4th-april.379736/page-260

I don't think a lot of experienced Roy users give input in that thread so if you guys have anything you'd want to share to enlighten the community now would be a good time. Of course you can also just ignore this debate. Given the general Roy stigma I really couldn't blame you.

EDIT: For the record, Roy's currently in the second to last tier. Make of that what you will.
That community discussion's not gonna take us seriously to begin with, me spending the next hour before going to bed on Discord/Anther's matches is going to do infinitely more for me and moving Roy up the list than spending it on a debate that likely won't go anywhere for us. They're probably going to be biased no matter what we say and ultimately discard it, even if we hand them our tournament results and list notable upsets. It's happened many times before in general tier discussions, and I don't trust this one to go any better. I don't care if Roy is at the very bottom of any tier list, I care that I'm putting in time to personally move him up when the time comes as a player for me to do so.

Please don't come in here only to advertise something like this, and then suddenly remind us of a Roy stigma multiple times with offhand comments about him being low or thought badly of on some community list and by the community in general. You're welcome to stay here and hang out, but please don't bring any of this sort of stuff up again. It does nothing good for our community and we're here to stay away from this kind of thing. It's ridiculous that not even our social thread is a safe place from this sort of thing.

I'm curious, exactly. Why try and get us to join the discussion? Why try and get us to brave the toxicity when there's not much, if anything, to gain?
 
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TimG57867

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
513
Yeah, no. Not going anywhere near that. I don't mind talking about Roy with people that care, but like, that kind of discussion is kinda toxic, and just filled with opinions, especially opinions from people that don't play the characters and don't always know how they operate. I'd much rather devote my time and energy to playing lol.

TBH that opinion is everywhere now, so I kinda just want to talk about things that are not tier lists or patch buffs here. x.x I think I might be the only one though.
I can definitely respect that as a Kirby main I can kinda sympathize. Prior to his Up Throw buff, Kirby getting downplayed a lot was just something we Kirbys had to put up with. I was well aware that he had glaring flaws and am still aggressive towards getting him optimally balanced but at the same time I could tell when he wasn't getting the credit he deserves. Things have gotten better for us since, but many people still look down on him a bit. Funnily enough, I believe Kirby and Roy are shoulder to shoulder on the "official" tier list. Well at least a Kirby nearly knocking Mr. R out of tournament will get people to view him in better light. I am here rooting for Roy to have his day. While I feel he has issues I just can't help but feel they're overblown and would love to see a player prove everyone wrong.

Well ****

Cause I think I accident;y started an argument I didn't want to.

:135:
That community discussion's not gonna take us seriously to begin with, me spending the next hour before going to bed on Discord/Anther's matches is going to do infinitely more for me and moving Roy up the list than spending it on a debate that likely won't go anywhere for us. They're probably going to be biased no matter what we say and ultimately discard it, even if we hand them our tournament results and list notable upsets. It's happened many times before in general tier discussions, and I don't trust this one to go any better. I don't care if Roy is at the very bottom of any tier list, I care that I'm putting in time to personally move him up when the time comes as a player for me to do so.

Please don't come in here only to advertise something like this, and then suddenly remind us of a Roy stigma multiple times with offhand comments about him being low or thought badly of on some community list and by the community in general. You're welcome to stay here and hang out, but please don't bring any of this sort of stuff up again. It does nothing good for our community and we're here to stay away from this kind of thing. It's ridiculous that not even our social thread is a safe place from this sort of thing.

I'm curious, exactly. Why try and get us to join the discussion? Why try and get us to brave the toxicity when there's not much, if anything, to gain?
Yeah sorry. I just always found the level of Roy hate insane. Like yeah, he was overrated but now a lot of people are starting to see as Bottom 5 which I think is a bit much. I was just hoping if I could catch the eye of some super knowledgeable Roy player who could enlighten everyone. I have seen it happen for other characters. I am not trying to egg you guys into making a entertaining show. I just legitimately get put off by the hate the character gets. But you are right. In the end, one scrabbled tier list is moot in the grand scheme of things, especially when you're striving to be be a better player and actually playing the game. Sorry if I mucked up your hangout. Frankly I don't even care about his tier position. I was just hoping for knowledge of his obscure meta to be spread so people would stop spreading misconceptions. Sorry for your time. :4kirby:
 
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Jiom

Smash Journeyman
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Not gonna talk much about that community tier list.. It kinda speaks for itself, and honestly I don't care about proving whatever community wrong about whatever misconceptions they brainwashed themselves into believing.

Edit: Finishing with that note, anyone maybe interested in friendlies some time this week?

Edit2: the ****storm that almost happened in that thread is pretty hilarious though
 
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The Merc

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IYeah sorry. I just always found the level of Roy hate insane. Like yeah, he was overrated but now a lot of people are starting to see as Bottom 5 which I think is a bit much. I was just hoping if I could catch the eye of some super knowledgeable Roy player who could enlighten everyone. I have seen it happen for other characters. I am not trying to egg you guys into making a entertaining show. I just legitimately get put off by the hate the character gets. But you are right. In the end, one scrabbled tier list is moot in the grand scheme of things, especially when you're striving to be be a better player and actually playing the game. Sorry if I mucked up your hangout. Frankly I don't even care about his tier position. I was just hoping for knowledge of his obscure meta to be spread so people would stop spreading misconceptions. Sorry for your time. :4kirby:
Yeah. I had a look and while they do have some points, they have the mind set of many others that I have seen. It's sad really all this hate. It's like the Sonic mains hate. it's just unreasonable and unjustified.

:135:
 
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I can definitely respect that as a Kirby main I can kinda sympathize. Prior to his Up Throw buff, Kirby getting downplayed a lot was just something we Kirbys had to put up with. I was well aware that he had glaring flaws and am still aggressive towards getting him optimally balanced but at the same time I could tell when he wasn't getting the credit he deserves. Things have gotten better for us since, but many people still look down on him a bit. Funnily enough, I believe Kirby and Roy are shoulder to shoulder on the "official" tier list. Well at least a Kirby nearly knocking Mr. R out of tournament will get people to view him in better light. I am here rooting for Roy to have his day. While I feel he has issues I just can't help but feel they're overblown and would love to see a player prove everyone wrong.




Yeah sorry. I just always found the level of Roy hate insane. Like yeah, he was overrated but now a lot of people are starting to see as Bottom 5 which I think is a bit much. I was just hoping if I could catch the eye of some super knowledgeable Roy player who could enlighten everyone. I have seen it happen for other characters. I am not trying to egg you guys into making a entertaining show. I just legitimately get put off by the hate the character gets. But you are right. In the end, one scrabbled tier list is moot in the grand scheme of things, especially when you're striving to be be a better player and actually playing the game. Sorry if I mucked up your hangout. Frankly I don't even care about his tier position. I was just hoping for knowledge of his obscure meta to be spread so people would stop spreading misconceptions. Sorry for your time. :4kirby:
No worries. With how things ended up, this is ultimately an opportunity to learn and get a feel of how we feel about this sort of thing. I've been in that sort of discussion plenty of times, and even our most respected Roys have been openly mocked, with many, many likes on any post mocking us by the community. It's a painful experience, and one I don't want anyone in this tightly-knit community stumbling into again. That's mainly why I worry about these discussions.

Another thing is, we also wouldn't like to hear about how our character was "overrated" at some point. That is subjective and something that might make some of us feel less confident about our community, our character, and what he can do. Some of us hold onto the belief that Roy is a strong character and some of the initial hype, it fuels our enjoyment of the game and helps us pick ourselves back up when we're discouraged. It gives us some nostalgia of the summer months, a time filled with a lot of excitement and respect, after many years where we weren't respected by many before going back into that drought. I don't want to say whether those beliefs are right or wrong, I'm just glad it's there to keep some of us going. I still hold onto that excitement and wonder, even if I don't care to hold onto any viability hype of his initial release since I'd support the character no matter what.
 

ILOVESMASH

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Honestly, I think that Roy being looked down upon by the entire community is a HUGE blessing in disguise since it all but guarantees buffs to him in the next patch, which is good as right now Roy is kinda outclassed by Marth (statistically speaking, Marth has better damage output, frame data, kill power, and range). Being a DLC character only bolsters the possibility of Roy getting buffed, as the developers will most likely want to increase sales / satisfy customers by giving them a good character.

Hearing misinformation about Roy is pretty annoying, but in the end, it will only benefit us Roy players more since the developers take note of common complaints of certain characters and make adjustments (ie people complained about mewtwo's hitboxes and range being bad and the developers made adjustments to fix said issues).
 

ArikadoSD

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lmao u guys are all absolutely wrong, roy has NO TOURNAMENT RESULTS, a much worse recovery than marcina, a very bad neutral, and his combo game is worse than that of marth's, not to mention no kill setups and worse sweetspots, easily comboed thanks tp being a fastfaller, and finally having bad matchups with all top tiers.. unfortunately this is amother game where marth is still better.

/s
 
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Shaya

   「chase you」 
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***** please.

It sucks though, prior to those buffs, Roy was better than Marth, for sure, 200%.
People are so quick to forget q_q.

My pragmatism or realism, or whatever, would say that Roy is in the lower region of the cast, but not that he's distinctively worse than characters above him.
People will focus on ZOMG THEY'RE 31ST INSTEAD OF 30TH or THEY'RE 30TH WHEN THEY'RE 20TH (although people would struggle to differentiate between 30th and 20th).
And [edit] no matter what happens, people are going to focus on small things like 30th vs 20th rather than the bigger picture, ALWAYS.
 
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TTTTTsd

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I'm just in here cause I got a post alert from Shaya but I ended up reading that linked thread.

I'm ashamed of the online community here. How can they bully someone like that so bad over a ****ing opinion about character viability? It's only cause of Roy too (lol, like....). Regardless of my thoughts on his viability, really sorry that you guys go through this BS and it's stupid. Even Dr. Mario players never got it like this. The dude literally had to say "I'm sorry for voting" in an opinion-based community voting thread, isn't that a place where controversial opinions SHOULD be fostered and allowed? The hell, man.

Also yeah before Marth got range equal to or greater than Roy, Roy was better. Clearly next patch they'll give Roy more range to compensate (which would mean his sourspots would be hilariously disjointed lol. Literal phantoms?). People seem to forget that, or maybe they just denied it for so long that there's nothing to remember~
 
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The Merc

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I'm just in here cause I got a post alert from Shaya but I ended up reading that linked thread.

I'm ashamed of the online community here. How can they bully someone like that so bad over a ****ing opinion about character viability? It's only cause of Roy too (lol, like....). Regardless of my thoughts on his viability, really sorry that you guys go through this BS and it's stupid. Even Dr. Mario players never got it like this. The dude literally had to say "I'm sorry for voting" in an opinion-based community voting thread, isn't that a place where controversial opinions SHOULD be fostered and allowed? The hell, man.

Also yeah before Marth got range equal to or greater than Roy, Roy was better. Clearly next patch they'll give Roy more range to compensate (which would mean his sourspots would be hilariously disjointed lol. Literal phantoms?). People seem to forget that, or maybe they just denied it for so long that there's nothing to remember~
I have to say your sig basically sums up everything.

:135:
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hi.

Saw the discussion going on over here, thought I'd chime in.

First off, I wanna apologize if I was spreading any misinformation about Roy in that thread. I got no grief towards Roy mains, and even if I don't think the character is very good it shouldn't mean I should **** on people or act condescending towards them for being positive or seeing potential in the character. The sad thing is I did this when I harassed voting Puff up before, and I don't want to come off as somebody militant, aggressive or not open to other people's opinions. This is my first time talking in the Roy social myself and I don't wanna cause any sort of drama, just wanted to apologize since I feel like an arsehole over this entire ordeal.
 

The Merc

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Hi.

Saw the discussion going on over here, thought I'd chime in.

First off, I wanna apologize if I was spreading any misinformation about Roy in that thread. I got no grief towards Roy mains, and even if I don't think the character is very good it shouldn't mean I should **** on people or act condescending towards them for being positive or seeing potential in the character. The sad thing is I did this when I harassed voting Puff up before, and I don't want to come off as somebody militant, aggressive or not open to other people's opinions. This is my first time talking in the Roy social myself and I don't wanna cause any sort of drama, just wanted to apologize since I feel like an arsehole over this entire ordeal.
Well that is very nice of you.

Thank you good sir

I do say, you were right to a degree. Roy does have his faults and some of them are holding them back. However, Roy has a lot going for him as well and it gets annoying when people claim something about Roy and yet don't really know anything about him

Like i said, this was very nice and mature of you. Thank you

:135:
 

TimG57867

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Wow. When I made that post yesterday, I was just hoping I could get some experienced Roy player to inform people about his meta. When I saw the initial reaction in tier thread I thought it was a total mistake, but looking at this thread now, perhaps things worked out. I mean I attracted freaking Shaya of all people. :estatic:

I really just hope people have learned from this. Thinking a character isn't good is one thing, but that's no excuse to be vitriolic to those that don't agree. While you may not agree with someone's opinion, it's still an opinion and while you're free to state why you don't agree you shouldn't demonize them over it if they aren't being rude themselves. Hopefully this sort thing will cease in the future. In any case I wish all of you the best.
 

TTTTTsd

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Hi.

Saw the discussion going on over here, thought I'd chime in.

First off, I wanna apologize if I was spreading any misinformation about Roy in that thread. I got no grief towards Roy mains, and even if I don't think the character is very good it shouldn't mean I should **** on people or act condescending towards them for being positive or seeing potential in the character. The sad thing is I did this when I harassed voting Puff up before, and I don't want to come off as somebody militant, aggressive or not open to other people's opinions. This is my first time talking in the Roy social myself and I don't wanna cause any sort of drama, just wanted to apologize since I feel like an arsehole over this entire ordeal.
It's ok, Smash dad will always forgive. Who is Smash dad? IDK. Regardless, I know it wasn't the intent but it always happens which is why as you said it's important to not come off like that cause people pile on quick.

Regardless, I appreciate it as a total Roy foreigner. You're young and I think it's ok to make mistakes, shiz happens, we all grow. I've been there and done that and trust me, you change a lot in a year or two when you're growin up. You'll notice even your best posts/thoughts and go "Man, I'm so much better now!" It's a little worrying but it's also relieving when you get there = )
 

JCav

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The best thing I read in that thread:

"Roy is currently the most underrated character in the game."

I can get behind that.
 

EnGarde

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Hi.

Saw the discussion going on over here, thought I'd chime in.

First off, I wanna apologize if I was spreading any misinformation about Roy in that thread. I got no grief towards Roy mains, and even if I don't think the character is very good it shouldn't mean I should **** on people or act condescending towards them for being positive or seeing potential in the character. The sad thing is I did this when I harassed voting Puff up before, and I don't want to come off as somebody militant, aggressive or not open to other people's opinions. This is my first time talking in the Roy social myself and I don't wanna cause any sort of drama, just wanted to apologize since I feel like an arsehole over this entire ordeal.
I can understand getting caught in the heat of the moment, and going a bit further than you meant to in a discussion. If you'll permit me, I'd like to describe my perspective on this, so you can understand our reactions. Ever since one of the top players released a tier list with Roy at the bottom (I think either ZeRo or Abadango), it seems like every discussion about Roy in Smash 4 has turned into a Roy bash fest. Admittedly, I personally avoid tier list discussions, the character competitive impressions thread, and threads on reddit about this type of topic, because I know I just am not interested in reading how many people dislike my character and think he's doomed without buffs, or think I'm doomed/a n00b/misguided for maining him. It's kind of demoralizing, and I've seen two of my friends here struggle with it already. :(

But, it's really hard to escape this topic. It is hard to talk Roy without tier lists or buffs coming up. People have come into this thread in order to "educate" me on my main, or to start this topic over and over and over, until it's the only conversation that seems to happen here. :( Mind, I would love buffs, and I'm not against Roy getting buffed, but I'm not going to hyper-focus on the hope of getting buffs when I'm fairly sure the balancing team isn't even listening to us. That way leads to unreasonable hope prior to patches/maintenance, and a huge let-down after when you are left with no buffs, or with changes you're not quite sure what to do with. The balance team will buff Roy when they feel like he needs buffs, and in the meantime, I will personally choose to spend my time playing and learning the game better, so that buffs or no buffs, I'll be the best player I can be. That's the part we as players can most easily control, and will make us even better when they do choose to buff Roy.

Wow. When I made that post yesterday, I was just hoping I could get some experienced Roy player to inform people about his meta. When I saw the initial reaction in tier thread I thought it was a total mistake, but looking at this thread now, perhaps things worked out. I mean I attracted freaking Shaya of all people. :estatic:

I really just hope people have learned from this. Thinking a character isn't good is one thing, but that's no excuse to be vitriolic to those that don't agree. While you may not agree with someone's opinion, it's still an opinion and while you're free to state why you don't agree you shouldn't demonize them over it if they aren't being rude themselves. Hopefully this sort thing will cease in the future. In any case I wish all of you the best.
I'm gonna be honest. This conversation has dominated this thread for over a month, and there's different people bringing it up every time. I suspect it'll come back around again on the next page, and on the next page, and on the next page...I know I'm tired of the discussion, but I also know that it's not going anywhere, and I, as a Roy main, am going to be stuck putting up with it here for the foreseeable future. ._.

---

EDIT: Almost forgot, our tournament results! I'm one of the ones that maintains the google spreadsheet with Roy results collected from both the discord and from the tournament results thread here on Smashboards. I maintain this in order to combat the prevalent opinion that Roy has no results. While he admittedly doesn't have any national level results, he does have some modest local and regional level results, and we're collecting more as time goes on. Here is a screenshot of some of the results, to give you an idea. Here is a link to the spreadsheet.

 
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Jiom

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474
The best thing I read in that thread:

"Roy is currently the most underrated character in the game."

I can get behind that.
Tbh I rather hear people say he is the most overrated for the surprise factor. If people Really think Roy's overrated and will just be a pushover whenever you play against one in tournament it just gives me that more of an advantage of beating them and crushing their mentality in the process.
 
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lmao u guys are all absolutely wrong, roy has NO TOURNAMENT RESULTS, a much worse recovery than marcina, a very bad neutral, and his combo game is worse than that of marth's, not to mention no kill setups and worse sweetspots, easily comboed thanks tp being a fastfaller, and finally having bad matchups with all top tiers.. unfortunately this is amother game where marth is still better.

/s









oh god this made my day LOL
 
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Joined
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I'm really confused by all of today's posts. Why are so many people hopping in, exactly? Is it something to do with that thread and people coming to apologize for it? I never gave the linked thread a look because I'm smart and don't want an aneurysm from a bunch of pseudo-intellectual asshats who will hate my character no matter what. I already know how people would treat us right off the bat, and I feel very uncomfortable knowing that so many people randomly hopped into the social immediately after. Like, if people got even more vehement about our character and how we're automatically wrong about everything by maining them, they'd probably come in here full-force since they already know to come here for other stuff. Everything seems to automatically go to our social thread. We really don't have anywhere to get away from this crap, do we?
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I'm really confused by all of today's posts. Why are so many people hopping in, exactly? Is it something to do with that thread and people coming to apologize for it? I never gave the linked thread a look because I'm smart and don't want an aneurysm from a bunch of pseudo-intellectual asshats who will hate my character no matter what. I already know how people would treat us right off the bat, and I feel very uncomfortable knowing that so many people randomly hopped into the social immediately after. Like, if people got even more vehement about our character and how we're automatically wrong about everything by maining them, they'd probably come in here full-force since they already know to come here for other stuff. Everything seems to automatically go to our social thread. We really don't have anywhere to get away from this crap, do we?
Because people were discussing the thread here and I legit wanted say sorry for spreading misconceptions about your character? I'm not here to cause any drama at all. Calling people "psuedo-intellectual asshats" is more or less adding fuel to the fire.

If anything my eyes have been opened today by seeing the tournament results chart. I had no idea the character did decently on a regional level myself, so excuse me for my ignorance. I wasn't going to force anything here either, and only two people from the thread came in here, and that includes me. If it bothers you, I'll just stop talking about this and go.
 
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Serew

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Because people were discussing the thread here and I legit wanted say sorry for spreading misconceptions about your character? I'm not here to cause any drama at all. Calling people "psuedo-intellectual asshats" is more or less adding fuel to the fire.

If anything my eyes have been opened today by seeing the tournament results chart. I had no idea the character did decently on a regional level myself, so excuse me for my ignorance. I wasn't going to force anything here either, and only two people from the thread came in here, and that includes me. If it bothers you, I'll just stop talking about this and go.
overall i'm happy with most of the positive responses! tbh alot of people need to realise that if they can't go anywhere without toxic opinions on roy, they have to deal with it :p that's just my opinion anyways.
 
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Because people were discussing the thread here and I legit wanted say sorry for spreading misconceptions about your character? I'm not here to cause any drama at all. Calling people "psuedo-intellectual asshats" is more or less adding fuel to the fire.

If anything my eyes have been opened today by seeing the tournament results chart. I had no idea the character did decently on a regional level myself, so excuse me for my ignorance. I wasn't going to force anything here either, and only two people from the thread came in here, and that includes me. If it bothers you, I'll just stop talking about this and go.
Apology accepted, and no worries. I just wanted a few laughs with the good copypasta material from one of the users yesterday, and I'm just irritated with how Roy mains are generally treated. I genuinely do feel that a lot of users who discuss Roy are, well, pseudo-intellectual asshats who will hate Roy no matter what, and it stings a little less to remember these experiences if I vent it a little. I didn't mean to take shots at anyone in this thread since I don't know what they're saying elsewhere or add fuel to anything going on here, just to vent frustrations about experience outside of it since I'm pretty worn down recently. My impressions are all from skimming since a lot happened overnight, so I may have missed at least one thing.
 
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Schnizzle Fits

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wow, lots a people here, Hello everybody!


2) I'd like to address what you said about Abadango and Mewtwo. As you might be able to tell, I faithfully played Wolf in Brawl. I distinctly remember Seagull Joe once saying "Wolf is the worst good character in the game." I agree with this completely and I think Roy shares a few similarities with Wolf. I think they both do much better against the top of the cast than most people think, but they have some glaring weaknesses. They both have an exploitable recovery, and can be easily combo'd because of their fall speed. Wolf gets absolutely bodied by every chain in the game, where Roy's biggest weakness imo is projectiles. (I have rant about how Wolf would be a perfect co-main for Roy, but I'll save it lol)
Wolf became my go to after I came back to Brawl in 2012. Because how dead my locals became (and blatant Melee elitism while still being dead) I only could play Brawl online and I ended out picking him up as a secondary from a random pick online. I did the same thing with Lucario. I seriously do believe that to this day not many people understand what Wolf can do and they underplay his shine because its not a Melee shine, it's still good in its own right. My favorite set up being Shine to downsmash combo which worked on the ledge if they where offstage (though I don't know if any amount of DI had to do with it). It's my favorite shine in the series because I got pretty good at abusing its invincibility frames.

For me Roy or Wolf coming back was a win. Getting one was good enough. Both would of been pretty cool though.
 
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