Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[Lavani]

hi roy mains

before i had roy, people told me that blazer had super armor on the ground and no intangibility anywhere and i believed them and parroted them for a long time

today i was bored so i started up smash and messed around with roy, and found out Blazer's intangible 9-10f on both the ground and air versions

so

sorry for continuing the spread of misinformation

That's Lucina's forward air, if you do frame by frame skipping, you'll see a frame with two blue defensive boxes before the next frame's red hitboxes.
Those blue boxes are intangible/invincible.

They actually aren't. I don't think anyone figured out what those hitboxes do, but we were looking into them forever ago in that old research thread and they definitely don't offer intangibility/invincibility. I'm not even sure if they have any actual defensive functions, they just seem to correlate with a lot of slash/stab element moves.

 

[Shaya]

ffffffffffffff lavani, why does the world always lie to us!?!?
I was under the impression we finally figured them out further in some capacity lol
but I have a theory I should test some time with them.

while you're here, you should do some stretchy hitbox 3ds patching magic to show roy's fire.

 

[The Merc]

Up-tilt True Shoryu must be one of the cheapest way to get a stock.

After we have Bayo 0-Death but it need a read.

Next to that we have Cloud Limit Side-b. But it need a read.

And after that we have Witch Time but it need a read.

Even Sheik pre-patch was a 50/50.

But getting a stock this earlier with a such ridiculus and stupid and easy combo is lame...

Literraly one of the most safe and fastest up-tilt...

To an Up-b... or one of the most basic move one a fighting game... especially in smash where there a lot of frame buffering to do Ryu's move...

I always want to cringe each time i see an up-tilt lock...

Or i cringe each time i see an easy and stupid kill confirm..

Thanks god ZSS ladder was patched and that MK ladder is hard to do now...

Ryu's combo's are pretty cheap.....

Though honestly, i personally think Bayo's Dair is one of he most cheap *** moves

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I set my L button to jump today to be able to up-b OoS easily with tap jump off.

It's pretty convenient, I don't have to claw or move my hands at all to be able to do the option. It was something I struggled with when trying to learn how to play without tap jump. I didn't want to eat my jump when Ryu was doing his whole completely balanced utilt lock to rage shoryuken deal, but I didn't want to lose this option as well. Because of this, I think I can make the Ryu matchup 1-99 instead of 0-100 =D

It's nice, because I can just press L and up-b at the same time while I sit in shield without doing aerial Blazer, and I'm no longer missing out on that OoS option while trying to optimizing controls for myself and deal with tradeoffs.

 

[The Merc]

I set my L button to jump today to be able to up-b OoS easily with tap jump off.

It's pretty convenient, I don't have to claw or move my hands at all to be able to do the option. It was something I struggled with when trying to learn how to play without tap jump. I didn't want to eat my jump when Ryu was doing his whole completely balanced utilt lock to rage shoryuken deal, but I didn't want to lose this option as well. Because of this, I think I can make the Ryu matchup 1-99 instead of 0-100 =D

It's nice, because I can just press L and up-b at the same time while I sit in shield without doing aerial Blazer, and I'm no longer missing out on that OoS option while trying to optimizing controls for myself and deal with tradeoffs.

I've put jump on the R bumper (because L bump is my shield button). I really don't use it but I'm trying to learn to so that I can do things like retreating aerials and stuff easier.

Speaking of Ryu's Utilt BS, I saw this video with Ryu vs an Ike and he did 2 Utilts -> Dair on BattleFields left Platform and it killed.

Seriously, I don't know what is more unfair, that or Bayo's Dair?

 

[LonkQ]

I probably spoiled myself, I can only play with claw. Never use the L button, I've forgotten how.

 

[Serew]

hi roy mains

before i had roy, people told me that blazer had super armor on the ground and no intangibility anywhere and i believed them and parroted them for a long time

today i was bored so i started up smash and messed around with roy, and found out Blazer's intangible 9-10f on both the ground and air versions

O_o seriously? that's pretty random

 

[The Merc]

Just saw Civil War. I have to say...

the feels man ;-;

The feels are real ;-;

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

EDIT: If you don't want this topic to dominate the social, I made a separate thread afterwards here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/quick-project-video-to-appeal-for-roy-buffs.435925/


Hey guys,

So right now, I'm making a video that goes over some of Roy's flaws that shouldn't be there, in order to try and get attention to them. It's basically an all-or-nothing attempt to get him buffed, since this idea was suggested to me multiple times, and a short project for now that's just something fun to do on the side and won't take much effort or time to make.

By no means am I trying to make others believe the character is mediocre or low/bottom-tier. It's something I will clarify in the video. I plan to state my honest opinion on the character, and what buffs could do for him, whether they're quality of life or help his gameplan in competitive play, and what kinds of buffs would help him most without making him too good against certain characters or players. I want a video that both increases Roy's chances for receiving buffs, while at the same time being a motivator for Roy mains to continue maining the character no matter what, giving them a positive feeling about a positive future even without buffs. I don't want to make a video only for it to discourage Roy mains, I'd like to continue working with the tools I have no matter what and help others do the same without losing sight in their dream buffs and dream designs of Roy. I feel I'm at a point where I can avoid falling into that state while making a video like this, and I'm excited to get it done just to play more Roy

If you're interested in the project, there will be more info in the spoiler. If you have no interest and don't want to get into any negativity I may talk about, I encourage you to avoid the spoiler and the rest of this post. I don't mind if this post is entirely ignored, tbh, I'd rather see posts flourish that encourage a positive or more social environment.





Still here? Let's get to it, shall we?

Spoiler

I'm looking for screenshot and video contributions you guys have on-hand or can grab quickly. I would prefer things sooner than later, since I'd like to get this project done in the next few days and be done with it. I can finish a video with my resources now to push for some key buffs that matter the most, but other things I'll ask for will add to potential quality-of-life changes and strengthen the video in general.

So far, I'm covering autocancel aerials; notably on Falcon, Fox, Marth, Lucina, Ike, Corrin, Robin, Cloud, and Limit Cloud, and I plan to go over why it's absurd that Roy lacks any compared to other FE characters, Cloud, and fastfallers.

What I need:
-Frame data of the cast's safety with aerials on shield, accounting for autocancels on the listed characters and Roy's lack of autocancels.
-Footage of Roy's up smash, side-b, and up-b failing to link properly.
-Screenshots of Roy's t-rex grab range coming into effect.
-Screenshots like the ones Unknown Merc posted where Roy's fair went through Sheik without hitting her. Any move is fine, we need to highlight every deadzone on Roy's moves we can.
-Opinions on what Roy needs fixed, why Roy doesn't get enough out of his gameplan, what can be done to make his matchups more bearable, buffs that would help his disadvantaged state and him being combo food, buffs that would help his mobility or blade in neutral, why 1-2% buffs would be beneficial and matter most, what buffs would matter and complete Roy's gameplan in a way that makes him as much of a threat as someone such as Ike or Corrin.

Any footage or screenshots in general that highlight Roy's flaws will help me, if you're fine with me downloading them through something like clip converter and using the footage. Here's an example:

 

[Airpoizon]

Our Boy getting some representation! Ryo won most of SC59 with Roy! Check it out of MVG's channel!

 

[Deleted member]

Our Boy getting some representation! Ryo won most of SC59 with Roy! Check it out of MVG's channel!

Ryo is the ****.

I wonder if he'll actually pick up Roy as a legit tournament secondary. Then again, he uses EVERYBODY at Smash Conference so I'm kinda doubting it. He only uses Ike and Corrin at big events.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Our Boy getting some representation! Ryo won most of SC59 with Roy! Check it out of MVG's channel!

I'm really excited to watch these sets, I regularly manage a playlist for Roy sets and good fundamental videos to help others develop the character. It warms my heart to hear of him doing well with the character.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyjrSXzY5Wcnm2ieLDFpXF7weYfsj0e1q

Ryo is the ****.

I wonder if he'll actually pick up Roy as a legit tournament secondary. Then again, he uses EVERYBODY at Smash Conference so I'm kinda doubting it. He only uses Ike and Corrin at big events.

Yeah, he's always kinda dabbled in Roy since release, but doesn't often use him seriously. When he does, though, his Roy's pretty sexy. The strong neutral game present in his play with Roy and his creative usage of certain tools is why I want to model myself after his Roy most.

Roy is one of Ryo's favorite video game characters of all time, and he really wanted the character back in both Brawl and here.
I'll never see him using or developing Roy to his Ike or Corrin's extent, though, since they're fundamentally better characters who have better matchup spreads and potential, and they're easier to do well with competitively. He's also used Ike competitively since 2008 or so in Brawl. However, I also don't see Roy as someone he'll ever drop completely or stop developing as a side project. Roy, at the very least, is a mid-tier character to both Ryo and myself. He has pulled some impressive wins with his Roy, including a 3-1 over Fatality, and 1st at Submerged Smash with 90-95% or so Roy.

I don't see Roy as a legit tournament secondary for him, I see him more as a character Ryo will sometimes use to showcase or have fun.

 

[Fledge]

Our Boy getting some representation! Ryo won most of SC59 with Roy! Check it out of MVG's channel!

WOW, just finished watching Ryo's matches, he's fricken' AMAZING. So many creative options (like B-reverse under Battlefield for low opponent recoveries, pressured opponent air dodges with ledge trumps or aerial followups as a dair setup, repeated jabs on characters with slower/interruptible OoS options, nair 1 to jab/up-smash/up-tilt/WHATEVER), and he seemed to switch playstyles intelligently between a controlled power patiently building damage and a high-pressure in your face aggressiveness. His mixups, reads and conditioning were sooo on point, and his movement was remarkably different stylistically from others like All Might or Neo, he rarely used extended dash dances and I felt his neutral positioning was more judicious intelligence than instinctive impulse. Just amazing, thanks for the heads up on this, I'm going to be watching and rewatching his matches, absolutely inspiring and innovative play!

 

[The Merc]

EDIT: If you don't want this topic to dominate the social, I made a separate thread afterwards here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/quick-project-video-to-appeal-for-roy-buffs.435925/


Hey guys,

So right now, I'm making a video that goes over some of Roy's flaws that shouldn't be there, in order to try and get attention to them. It's basically an all-or-nothing attempt to get him buffed, since this idea was suggested to me multiple times, and a short project for now that's just something fun to do on the side and won't take much effort or time to make.

By no means am I trying to make others believe the character is mediocre or low/bottom-tier. It's something I will clarify in the video. I plan to state my honest opinion on the character, and what buffs could do for him, whether they're quality of life or help his gameplan in competitive play, and what kinds of buffs would help him most without making him too good against certain characters or players. I want a video that both increases Roy's chances for receiving buffs, while at the same time being a motivator for Roy mains to continue maining the character no matter what, giving them a positive feeling about a positive future even without buffs. I don't want to make a video only for it to discourage Roy mains, I'd like to continue working with the tools I have no matter what and help others do the same without losing sight in their dream buffs and dream designs of Roy. I feel I'm at a point where I can avoid falling into that state while making a video like this, and I'm excited to get it done just to play more Roy

If you're interested in the project, there will be more info in the spoiler. If you have no interest and don't want to get into any negativity I may talk about, I encourage you to avoid the spoiler and the rest of this post. I don't mind if this post is entirely ignored, tbh, I'd rather see posts flourish that encourage a positive or more social environment.





Still here? Let's get to it, shall we?

Spoiler

I'm looking for screenshot and video contributions you guys have on-hand or can grab quickly. I would prefer things sooner than later, since I'd like to get this project done in the next few days and be done with it. I can finish a video with my resources now to push for some key buffs that matter the most, but other things I'll ask for will add to potential quality-of-life changes and strengthen the video in general.

So far, I'm covering autocancel aerials; notably on Falcon, Fox, Marth, Lucina, Ike, Corrin, Robin, Cloud, and Limit Cloud, and I plan to go over why it's absurd that Roy lacks any compared to other FE characters, Cloud, and fastfallers.

What I need:
-Frame data of the cast's safety with aerials on shield, accounting for autocancels on the listed characters and Roy's lack of autocancels.
-Footage of Roy's up smash, side-b, and up-b failing to link properly.
-Screenshots of Roy's t-rex grab range coming into effect.
-Screenshots like the ones Unknown Merc posted where Roy's fair went through Sheik without hitting her. Any move is fine, we need to highlight every deadzone on Roy's moves we can.
-Opinions on what Roy needs fixed, why Roy doesn't get enough out of his gameplan, what can be done to make his matchups more bearable, buffs that would help his disadvantaged state and him being combo food, buffs that would help his mobility or blade in neutral, why 1-2% buffs would be beneficial and matter most, what buffs would matter and complete Roy's gameplan in a way that makes him as much of a threat as someone such as Ike or Corrin.

Any footage or screenshots in general that highlight Roy's flaws will help me, if you're fine with me downloading them through something like clip converter and using the footage. Here's an example:

While I can't get any video, I can give a few more pictures of his aerials

And possible write up some paras about why Roy needs buffs in certain area's like Blazer, which I did a bit of research into and found out how weak it is (particularly Aerial version).

 

[Ryo_Guikido]

For those of you wondering. I am using Roy much more seriously. I love Roy like Ike and Corrin. So you will be seeing him a lot more. Thanks all for the respect.

 

[The Merc]

For those of you wondering. I am using Roy much more seriously. I love Roy like Ike and Corrin. So you will be seeing him a lot more. Thanks all for the respect.

Oh awesome. Good to see him getting some representation

I've seen some of your match and I have to say I love the way you play. Really awesome.

though I'm curious, you like FE characters and play the a lot and I was wondering what your thoughts are on Robin and Lucina are (as Smash characters)?

You don't have you answer

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

While I can't get any video, I can give a few more pictures of his aerials

And possible write up some paras about why Roy needs buffs in certain area's like Blazer, which I did a bit of research into and found out how weak it is (particularly Aerial version).

The screenshots would ultimately help me a lot in the video editing process, any and all moves you can think of to screenshot would help me greatly.

Insight as to why Roy needs buffs will help me add reasoning and content to the video, and help me better revise my work.

 

[Airpoizon]

I'm pretty sure most people her check Eventhubs every so often. They have Roy ranked at 20th. What do you think of that placement?

 

[Seraphim.]

I'm pretty sure most people her check Eventhubs every so often. They have Roy ranked at 20th. What do you think of that placement?

No one really takes that Eventhubs tier list seriously, but even then 20th is way too high for Roy.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I'm pretty sure most people her check Eventhubs every so often. They have Roy ranked at 20th. What do you think of that placement?

I personally never bother with the site, and I don't take placings or data there seriously. Eventhubs is a site where any user's vote is equal, and low level players have always flooded to it in droves to add input. Anyone can vote and add to their data. Nearly all mid and high level players don't bother with the site, and anyone can vote. Results there don't prioritize the opinions and thoughts of players who are knowledgeable on the game and do well in tournaments, and it has absolutely no consideration for tournament results or play in their general rankings, where Roy is 20th.

I never check Eventhubs because it is awful and counter-productive as a resource for competitive play. It's more of a popularity contest where For Glory kids find it through google and hop on at 4 PM after school and homework to vote Roy vs. Ness as a 70:30 Roy's favor because they lost to a good Roy the night before who punished their rolls. A college student who hasn't had time to do anything because of football practice finally gets a chance to hop on FG and they beat a really bad Donkey Kong with Mario and Falcon, so they vote it heavily in Mario's and Falcon's favor. Stuff like that happens. People who don't know about competitive play, Smashboards, tournaments, etc. who only know of For Glory are often the people who vote on Hubs.

It's pretty cool that Roy is getting love there, I just hope that the site doesn't influence balance patches so that he has higher chances of buffs.

 

[Airpoizon]

I personally never bother with the site, and I don't take placings or data there seriously. Eventhubs is a site where any user's vote is equal, and low level players have always flooded to it in droves to add input. Anyone can vote and add to their data. Nearly all mid and high level players don't bother with the site, and anyone can vote. Results there don't prioritize the opinions and thoughts of players who are knowledgeable on the game and do well in tournaments, and it has absolutely no consideration for tournament results or play in their general rankings, where Roy is 20th.

I never check Eventhubs because it is awful and counter-productive as a resource for competitive play. It's more of a popularity contest where For Glory kids find it through google and hop on at 4 PM after school and homework to vote Roy vs. Ness as a 70:30 Roy's favor because they lost to a good Roy the night before who punished their rolls. A college student who hasn't had time to do anything because of football practice finally gets a chance to hop on FG and they beat a really bad Donkey Kong with Mario and Falcon, so they vote it heavily in Mario's and Falcon's favor. Stuff like that happens. People who don't know about competitive play, Smashboards, tournaments, etc. who only know of For Glory are often the people who vote on Hubs.

It's pretty cool that Roy is getting love there, I just hope that the site doesn't influence balance patches so that he has higher chances of buffs.

Lol true, it is pretty inaccurate most of the time.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Lol true, it is pretty inaccurate most of the time.

No worries. Their MU spread is a trip, though. Some MU's I feel are hard are in the 50-50 or 55-45 range Roy's advantage there. Some MU's I feel are easier for Roy are listed in the hard MU's. Some are pretty agreeable, it's all over the place.

I do genuinely wonder how Roy got top 20 on Eventhubs, though. On top of that, he's 17th most used on votes. I wonder if it's the bulk of summer input carrying him, or if he's been pretty low at some point and bounced back.

 

[DarkDeity15]

It's quite surprising that no one has bothered to try and lab much of anything in the meta thread yet. Roy isn't even my main and I'll probably end up doing most of the lab work at this rate. I hope you realize I can't do all of this by myself, especially if I have two other characters to work on and school to worry about. If anyone wants to help out, please PM me (if you have Ryu, Mewtwo and Lucas then that's even better). And if you want to contribute something yourself, please try and get to work as soon as you can. The Roy metagame counts on you guys. All this talk about getting better and asking for Roy buffs yet there's close to no effort in contributing to the meta. Ask for buffs when Roy has been optimized and still isn't doing well competitively.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

It's quite surprising that no one has bothered to try and lab much of anything in the meta thread yet. Roy isn't even my main and I'll probably end up doing most of the lab work at this rate. I hope you realize I can't do all of this by myself, especially if I have two other characters to work on and school to worry about. If anyone wants to help out, please PM me (if you have Ryu, Mewtwo and Lucas then that's even better). And if you want to contribute something yourself, please try and get to work as soon as you can. The Roy metagame counts on you guys. All this talk about getting better and asking for Roy buffs yet there's close to no effort in contributing to the meta. Ask for buffs when Roy has been optimized and still isn't doing well competitively.

I have all DLC characters and would be willing to hop online to assist in labbing. I can send the PM after work.

I've tried handling labbing myself, but it's a daunting task, since I've never done labbing for the community before. I felt really awkward approaching it and trying to take down notes a few weeks ago. I don't want to be lancerstaff levels of basic, but I also don't want to overwhelm myself trying to come up with how I'll tackle rage, DI, stages & stage positioning, move staling, and multiple weights, and what's worth tackling or cutting out. I don't know a universally good way to lab, or a way to avoid overthinking, so I always coward out of it. I'm bad with frame data and raw numbers, and do much better on projects when less of them are involved.

If we had something like Izaw's "Art of" videos, I think that'd probably be the greatest resource we could have. I'll look at a few again later, I have to cut this post short to head out for work.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I have all DLC characters and would be willing to hop online to assist in labbing. I can send the PM after work.

I've tried handling labbing myself, but it's a daunting task, since I've never done labbing for the community before. I felt really awkward approaching it and trying to take down notes a few weeks ago. I don't want to be lancerstaff levels of basic, but I also don't want to overwhelm myself trying to come up with how I'll tackle rage, DI, stages & stage positioning, move staling, and multiple weights, and what's worth tackling or cutting out. I don't know a universally good way to lab, or a way to avoid overthinking, so I always coward out of it. I'm bad with frame data and raw numbers, and do much better on projects when less of them are involved.

If we had something like Izaw's "Art of" videos, I think that'd probably be the greatest resource we could have. I'll look at a few again later, I have to cut this post short to head out for work.

Just do it in whatever way you can. If you think rage and stages are too much, then either ignore them or add them in later. What matters most at this point is the character, %s, DI and guaranteed stuff preferably. Including reads and non-guaranteed follow-ups is a waste of time, remember that. Most people know when there is an opportunity for a read anyways. And if you think you have to, make it brief. The preferred stage to gather kill %s is battle field since it's pretty much the most basic stage. Even if it is just one stage, it still gives you a good viewpoint on how early something will kill someone compared to others so adding in other stages to gather kill %s on isn't 100% necessary.

And believe me if I could make an Art of Roy vid, I'd do it in a heartbeat lol.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

More on resources:
The Roy video guides out there are pretty subpar and don't come from anyone with a lot of Roy experience. They're all from people who first looked into and covered him over the summer, or people who just pocket him and don't know much about him. Imo, one of the best things possible would be to create at least one proper video guide and spread it around, to give more of a proper starting point and get more people interested in Roy. It's something I'd like to work on when this family visit is over, since I feel I'd be better at writing and explaining things than crunching out raw numbers (still would work on that a bit, to the best I can, I have about 30 minutes of labbing and notes from today and plan to continue tonight).

I'm not a good/great player by any means, but I think I can put something good out there that covers his moveset, neutral game, punish game, and how to apply the mental aspects of Smash in each situation with Roy that could help a lot of people.

 

[The Merc]

dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523

Sorry these pictures came in really late, I've just had other stuff on and complete forgot about all these

Again, sorry for the delay

Spoiler

Uair

Jab (sorry it's not super clear but it was really hard to get the timing right)

Dair (while it looks like i am missing Sheik, i actually have a picture of the nextt frames shown that it would hit her du to it's weird horizontal hitbox)

And I have a few more I can show later

Hope this helps

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I feel like a really garbage player right now.

I solidly won game 1 against a Falco, then he beat me by sitting in shield, empty hopping, and getting crazy mileage off small punishes over and over in the next two games.

I SD'd at 20 vs. a Samus, then got dair spiked around 30, lost game 1, and just forfeited the set right there.

Sometimes it feels like I'll never be above mediocre. I guess I just need to recompose myself for a bit and try again in 10-15 minutes.

 

[LonkQ]

I want to play one of you guys one day. Just to get a feel of where I am at this point.

 

[The Merc]

So would i man. If only i could play online once.....

I feel like a really garbage player right now.

I solidly won game 1 against a Falco, then he beat me by sitting in shield, empty hopping, and getting crazy mileage off small punishes over and over in the next two games.

I SD'd at 20 vs. a Samus, then got dair spiked around 30, lost game 1, and just forfeited the set right there.

Sometimes it feels like I'll never be above mediocre. I guess I just need to recompose myself for a bit and try again in 10-15 minutes.

I'm not sure if that's 100%.

I mean, maybe you weren't really feeling it that day, but I think Roy might have a bit to do with it. Recently, I've notice that key underline problem with Roy that has been noted before.

Roy is a strong character that has any pros to him. That is 100% right.
His problem is though for all his strengths, other characters have the same 10 fold. Just seems unfair in my eyes

Not saying Roy can't do well. Just, like stated before, it requires more work than say Toon Link or Corrin

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

So would i man. If only i could play online once.....



I'm not sure if that's 100%.

I mean, maybe you weren't really feeling it that day, but I think Roy might have a bit to do with it. Recently, I've notice that key underline problem with Roy that has been noted before.

Roy is a strong character that has any pros to him. That is 100% right.
His problem is though for all his strengths, other characters have the same 10 fold. Just seems unfair in my eyes

Not saying Roy can't do well. Just, like stated before, it requires more work than say Toon Link or Corrin

Eh, possibly. I feel like that could be an exaggeration though. I don't know if Corrin has anything placings-wise other than ESAM using him as a counterpick character, and I've never seen TL do much more, if even more at all, than Roy.

While that could be the case, I just need to play against that kind of neutral more. Tbh I've slacked on competitive play since June and kinda ****** around doing nothing which is why I'm trying to fix that now on Anthers.

I want to play one of you guys one day. Just to get a feel of where I am at this point.

My NNID is MasonEliwood. I went to bed pretty late, had trouble falling asleep, and stomach problems woke me up early. I'm so out of it that I won't even try to play today. But tomorrow, I should be getting much more sleep. I'd be down then or in the coming weekdays.

 

[EnGarde]

I've never seen TL do much more, if even more at all, than Roy.

Hyuga from Mexico got 9th using Toon Link in Genesis 3.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So would i man. If only i could play online once.....



I'm not sure if that's 100%.

I mean, maybe you weren't really feeling it that day, but I think Roy might have a bit to do with it. Recently, I've notice that key underline problem with Roy that has been noted before.

Roy is a strong character that has any pros to him. That is 100% right.
His problem is though for all his strengths, other characters have the same 10 fold. Just seems unfair in my eyes

Not saying Roy can't do well. Just, like stated before, it requires more work than say Toon Link or Corrin

I guess so, but as of late, I've quite enjoyed the good sum of results that come up, really. It's been fun to face some peeps who seem not very knowing the MU and depth regarding Roy well enough to be destroyed quite hard by I when I went on them (even if they were pretty good). I guess it's more the preference of people towards him and if they're willing to work Roy out for them in the long run.

Wonder if I could even post some replays from FG regarding more the harder matches with Roy. Wouldn't mind some viewpoints from other peers.

 

[The Merc]

Eh, possibly. I feel like that could be an exaggeration though. I don't know if Corrin has anything placings-wise other than ESAM using him as a counterpick character, and I've never seen TL do much more, if even more at all, than Roy.

While that could be the case, I just need to play against that kind of neutral more. Tbh I've slacked on competitive play since June and kinda ****** around doing nothing which is why I'm trying to fix that now on Anthers.

Eh, I used those two as an example cause there tier list placements. Though I have seen some good things from some Toon Link's.

Well, it could just be a moment's thing. Nothing to worry about. Just shake it off and move it

I guess so, but as of late, I've quite enjoyed the good sum of results that come up, really. It's been fun to face some peeps who seem not very knowing the MU and depth regarding Roy well enough to be destroyed quite hard by I when I went on them (even if they were pretty good). I guess it's more the preference of people towards him and if they're willing to work Roy out for them in the long run.

Wonder if I could even post some replays from FG regarding more the harder matches with Roy. Wouldn't mind some viewpoints from other peers.

True true. It would be nice to verse people as Roy cause they've never played against the character

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Hyuga from Mexico got 9th using Toon Link in Genesis 3.

Oh yeah, wasn't thinking about him right off the bat. He has pretty good placings in general iirc, never knew he placed well at Genesis since I've been out of the loop on tourneys and I figured I'd hear something from my TL friends. Other than that, I would sometimes see a good TL in top 32 of any given bracket, but that was about it.

If only Roy was legal at last year's EVO, I think that might have helped him (and Ryu and Lucas) gain more development. AllMight placed well at EVO under a previous alias, but he wasn't allowed to use Roy since Mewtwo was the only legal DLC. A few people who picked up and practiced Roy who made top 32 had to play their other characters instead at EVO, and they might have gotten the same placings or better with Roy with proper counterpicking. I'm still salty about that ban when everyone had over a month to learn three MU's with no customs a bit, but custom moves and miis/Mewtwo to make 48+3+1 characters on the plate were already a lot to digest.
Partly bringing it up because I think the Florida Roys might do something pretty neat there this year that could change some opinions, or some skilled Roy main/secondary under the radar might come out of nowhere. Just a bit of an instinct.
It's all what-ifs and speculation, but I feel good about EVO and I'm just feeling that summer pre-EVO excitement I always do. It's my favorite yearly tradition.

Eh, I used those two as an example cause there tier list placements. Though I have seen some good things from some Toon Link's.

Well, it could just be a moment's thing. Nothing to worry about. Just shake it off and move it



True true. It would be nice to verse people as Roy cause they've never played against the character

They are good examples, though, I think they're good characters for sure with a lot of straightforward tools that can also be creative. I think they're both in a similar spot as Roy where all three are too volatile to properly rank, though. I feel like everyone's in too big of a rush to get a solid tier placing for every single fighter on the roster, or to make everyone agree on a placing for every character (mainly with negative side effects). Because of Corrin's ease of use (my opinion only, I don't mean to call them bd or say they carry anyone) and how great their tools are, with a handful of them outclassing the ones of other sword characters to sell and do well as a product, I felt the need to emphasize how they outclass Roy as a whole for a while. But they're both DLC characters who aren't near fully known about with good placings and players outside of nationals that make them difficult to rank, and each has good things the other doesn't. TL's great too, with a lot of great tools, but I don't know how great. Believe it or not, he was one of my most played tourney characters, since my best friend mains him and I wanted to make him proud.

So far, though, I don't know enough about Roy or myself as a player to pull the "low-tier option select." Mid-tier players sometimes use it, too, they'll blame their character entirely on losses, and when they win, they act like their opponents suck or that they're godly because of their disadvantaged character pick, and it's a no win situation that slows their improvement and makes things less fun for others. I love what the site Bad Melee says about it in their article on Ganon, though it has a lot of certainly colorful language. Just a heads up if you want to avoid a lot of profanity or such. They have a lot of articles I find hilarious.





I'm so sleep deprived I can barely tell what I'm posting or what tone everything comes off as. Zzzzzzzzzzz. Pretend it's good for now. I'll be coherent and make slightly more sense later

 

[Airpoizon]

No worries. Their MU spread is a trip, though. Some MU's I feel are hard are in the 50-50 or 55-45 range Roy's advantage there. Some MU's I feel are easier for Roy are listed in the hard MU's. Some are pretty agreeable, it's all over the place.

I do genuinely wonder how Roy got top 20 on Eventhubs, though. On top of that, he's 17th most used on votes. I wonder if it's the bulk of summer input carrying him, or if he's been pretty low at some point and bounced back.

It can't be the bulk of summer input, Eventhubs resets.

I want to play one of you guys one day. Just to get a feel of where I am at this point.

I would love to play you all! I Won't call myself a good Roy player just yet. I don't want to sound overconfident and get my but kicked. I'm higher than average though.

 

[Jiom]

hi roy mains

before i had roy, people told me that blazer had super armor on the ground and no intangibility anywhere and i believed them and parroted them for a long time

today i was bored so i started up smash and messed around with roy, and found out Blazer's intangible 9-10f on both the ground and air versions

so

sorry for continuing the spread of misinformation


They actually aren't. I don't think anyone figured out what those hitboxes do, but we were looking into them forever ago in that old research thread and they definitely don't offer intangibility/invincibility. I'm not even sure if they have any actual defensive functions, they just seem to correlate with a lot of slash/stab element moves.

Good find just curious how you found it, also do you know if Pit's F smash(frame 10) would be a good means for testing the intangibility?

 

[The Merc]

They are good examples, though, I think they're good characters for sure with a lot of straightforward tools that can also be creative. I think they're both in a similar spot as Roy where all three are too volatile to properly rank, though. I feel like everyone's in too big of a rush to get a solid tier placing for every single fighter on the roster, or to make everyone agree on a placing for every character (mainly with negative side effects). Because of Corrin's ease of use (my opinion only, I don't mean to call them bd or say they carry anyone) and how great their tools are, with a handful of them outclassing the ones of other sword characters to sell and do well as a product, I felt the need to emphasize how they outclass Roy as a whole for a while. But they're both DLC characters who aren't near fully known about with good placings and players outside of nationals that make them difficult to rank, and each has good things the other doesn't. TL's great too, with a lot of great tools, but I don't know how great. Believe it or not, he was one of my most played tourney characters, since my best friend mains him and I wanted to make him proud.

So far, though, I don't know enough about Roy or myself as a player to pull the "low-tier option select." Mid-tier players sometimes use it, too, they'll blame their character entirely on losses, and when they win, they act like their opponents suck or that they're godly because of their disadvantaged character pick, and it's a no win situation that slows their improvement and makes things less fun for others. I love what the site Bad Melee says about it in their article on Ganon, though it has a lot of certainly colorful language. Just a heads up if you want to avoid a lot of profanity or such. They have a lot of articles I find hilarious.





I'm so sleep deprived I can barely tell what I'm posting or what tone everything comes off as. Zzzzzzzzzzz. Pretend it's good for now. I'll be coherent and make slightly more sense later

Yeah, I probably should have said "Tier list placement".

I haven't played Corrin yet, but while he does seem good, Top Tier (even high) is a bit of a stretch imo

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Good news, I have labbing completely done and filmed for No DI/DI in/DI out on dthrow and fthrow. I also have footage on what to do for throw 50/50's and tech chasing. It's in Versus, but I SD after everything in order to prevent staling, and there's no rage. I'm going to play around with those and see how much they do. I might just do what San does and just make them a short note in the description.

My goal is to find when each is optimal, or when each covers more options/better options.

If there is an update like the rumored 10th one, then I will have to start over completely. But I don't mind, since I'd know how to re-approach this completely and do even better.

For now, I'll sit back and wait to see if there is an update or not that would affect replays, then hop into it again afterwards.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Also, I'm probably going to abandon the project aiming to get him buffed. It's not worth my time. If someone wants to pick up my script and footage so far, they can. I can direct them to footage if they need it. I'd rather work on resources we actually need and things that will help optimize the character. We have a severe lack of optimization on many things, on top of no stage guides or counterpicking info, no guides outside of summer hype or people who try to get guides out on every single character such as Jtails and JoeKing, etc. We don't have proper resources from dedicated Roys, we don't have any Roys who are close to optimized, and we spend too much time formulating buffs or ways to make them more likely. We need to become more knowledgeable on the character so we can make these informed resources, and we need to put in the effort to optimize our character if the meta is going to be a constant topic we always **** around about and never put constructive effort into.

There's a reason Ike is good. He has stage info, counterpick info, tons of labbing videos, dedicated professionals who constantly put out content, and people who push unorthodox things such as back throw and footstooling. It's easy to look into and learn Ike because of the community's resources, and there's many things to push him with. What does Roy have?

We need to stop talking about how Roy is so outclassed by Ike or Cloud or Corrin or whoever, and the whole woe is me victim attitude with needing buffs and being low in the eyes of others, and start working on tech chasing, throw 50/50's, mobility options, matchup info, stage info, optimizing things such as our combo throws, and making everything in our play count.

I think we should advance his meta instead of waiting for it to happen, and contribute more socially to make this a proper social thread. Tbh I've been the cause of a lot of people not wanting to be more social, and I've been one of the laziest when it comes to optimizing. There's a lot more I want to rant on, but I'd like to start here.

My words aren't going to mean much until I get that throw video out, but I'm seriously irritated with how slowly we're progressing, and a lot of it's my fault. I'm not going to let this character remain meme status with "Roy's our boy" or "t3h phire" or "hehe he shares a name with Roy koopa look at my comedic genius" or "Fire Marth" forever. Even if nothing happens, I'm at least going to put my weight into advancing the character, and trying to be better socially online.