Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[KingofPhantoms]

NO WAI, HE'S SO IRRELEVANT AND NOT-RECENT, DEDENEE IS MORE RECENT RELEVANT AND MUH FAIRY TYPE!

 

[iCeKnIgHt]

Who here is actually pretty good at brawl? I mean like Apex worthy good... ignore that post... wrong thread

 

[Pacack]

Who here is actually pretty good at brawl? I mean like Apex worthy good...

Um...wrong thread?

 

[Johnknight1]

My prescription of Smashchu ran out back in 2011, I don't plan on getting refills.

Well, was that when you cancelled your patient-doctor relationship with Dr. Mario=???

Nurse Peach is way better bro!

http://www.examiner.com/article/super-smash-bros-4-wii-u-and-3ds-release-date-potentially-listed
What do you guys think?

Totally false... just like the "Smash Wii U is a launch title" rumor. The earliest we'll get either game in Q4 2014, and at the latest, Q3/4 2015.

 

[iCeKnIgHt]

Um...wrong thread?

oh geez

 

[Johnknight1]

Who here is actually pretty good at brawl? I mean like Apex worthy good...

Brawl isn't the only game at APEX. There will also be Melee, Street Fighter IV (I think), Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (I think), Project M, and Smash 64.

But to answer your question, nope, that's not me... but I've smoked Apex worthy Brawl players in Project M and Melee.

 

[Bajef8]

Brawl isn't the only game at APEX. There will also be Melee, Street Fighter IV (I think), Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (I think), Project M, and Smash 64.

But to answer your question, nope, that's not me... but I've smoked Apex worthy Brawl players in Project M and Melee.

Well that's like saying I dust people in MW2 on 360, but can't beat beat people in Black Ops on 360. Different game, different mechanics, etcs...even if COD hasn't changed engines since the 4th game

I've never played competitively in Melee, but I really wanna play someone tourney-worthy. I beat one kid in high school who placed in tournies before, so who knows. Real men use Peach.

On topic, is anyone expecting a noteworthy update in the next couple hours?

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Well that's like saying I dust people in MW2 on 360, but can't beat beat people in Black Ops on 360. Different game, different mechanics, etcs...even if COD hasn't changed engines since the 4th game

I've never played competitively in Melee, but I really wanna play someone tourney-worthy. I beat one kid in high school who placed in tournies before, so who knows. Real men use Peach.

On topic, is anyone expecting a noteworthy update in the next couple hours?

I'm sure John could be good at brawl if he liked it, its just not his style tho.

Actually real men always have a pocket falcon, but that's another story for another day.

As for the OT: Not really just another toon link pic.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

On topic, is anyone expecting a noteworthy update in the next couple hours?

I have doubts we'll be seeing anything significant tonight. When we get a character reveal we usually see at least a few more pics of them following that character's reveal for a very short time, but the same doesn't seem to apply to stages, or items for that matter. The X-bomb has only been shown once so far, though, considering how we didn't get a playable Pokemon character reveal there is the possibility that we'll see some more news regarding the Pokeball item tonight to make up for it, but I'm not certain.

 

[Bajef8]

I'm sure John could be good at brawl if he liked it, its just not his style tho.

Actually real men always have a pocket falcon, but that's another story for another day.

As for the OT: Not really just another toon link pic.

Oh I mean nothing rude, I'm just saying it's unfair to say, "oh I whip good Brawl players at <insert game that isn't Brawl here>."

What makes you think I don't have Pocket Falcon ? Besides, let me correct my previous statement. Real men main Peach.

 

[Johnknight1]

My post wasn't a jab at Brawl players, only that their skillset isn't usually as well-rounded. They don't know as much as Smash 64 or Melee players about how to face someone who is aggressive and successful at it, how to edge guard, or really how to deal with combos offensively or defensively.

However, they do know how to poke really well, and how to force the opponent to approach.

I'm sure John could be good at brawl if he liked it, its just not his style tho.

I was pretty good at Brawl back in the day. I use to routinely beat people who now or were formerly top ranked players...

...but then everything got so camping, stalling, and "tag, you're it" and poking-based, and I refused to adapt (I want ACTION!) that I stopped winning.

Yep, that's right. I quit playing competitively for a causal reason, more specifically not wanting to be boring, wanting to have fun playing [competitive] games), and not wanting to switch from a character they like (Toon Link) to one that bores them (Meta Knight). Strange, right=??? #CompetitivePlayersAreCasualToo

That's why I dropped Brawl, and focused more on Smash 64 and Melee, and eventually picked up Project M.

Actually real men always have a pocket falcon, but that's another story for another day.

...I actually have a pocket Captain Falcon in Smash 64, Melee, (Brawl,) and Project M!

Oh, and my claim to fame with Captain Falcon: I once Falcon Punched Mango (even though I did get 4 stocked) in the one time I faced him. It was mad hype!

 

[XStarWarriorX]

My post wasn't a jab at Brawl players, only that their skillset isn't usually as well-rounded. They don't know as much as Smash 64 or Melee players about how to face someone who is aggressive and successful at it, how to edge guard, or really how to deal with combos offensively or defensively.

However, they do know how to poke really well, and how to force the opponent to approach.

I was pretty good at Brawl back in the day. I use to routinely beat people who now or were formerly top ranked players...

...but then everything got so camping, stalling, and "tag, you're it" and poking-based, and I refused to adapt (I want ACTION!) that I stopped winning.

Yep, that's right. I quit playing competitively for a causal reason, more specifically not wanting to be boring, wanting to have fun playing [competitive] games), and not wanting to switch from a character they like (Toon Link) to one that bores them (Meta Knight). Strange, right=??? #CompetitivePlayersAreCasualToo

That's why I dropped Brawl, and focused more on Smash 64 and Melee, and eventually picked up Project M.

...I actually have a pocket Captain Falcon in Smash 64, Melee, (Brawl,) and Project M!

Oh, and my claim to fame with Captain Falcon: I once Falcon Punched Mango (even though I did get 4 stocked) in the one time I faced him. It was mad hype!

Yeah that's why i don't do competitive brawl much anymore, (minimal at best). I'm focusing mostly on 64, but i put my time on all versions as well

and no real men main kirby

 

[Bajef8]

My post wasn't a jab at Brawl players, only that their skillset isn't usually as well-rounded. They don't know as much as Smash 64 or Melee players about how to face someone who is aggressive and successful at it, how to edge guard, or really how to deal with combos offensively or defensively.

However, they do know how to poke really well, and how to force the opponent to approach.

Yaaaarg why must people misunderstand my posts. I never said you took a jab at them anywhere. All I said is using the statement, "I can beat players who are good at game X, at Game Y & Z" is moot. That's all. No ill begotten remarks or thoughts, just a comment.

Yeah that's why i don't do competitive brawl much anymore, (minimal at best). I'm focusing mostly on 64, but i put my time on all versions as well

and no real men main kirby

I'm talking Melee. And only scum main Kirby in Smash 64....such as myself haha. However I feel inclined to use Jiggs more because she's just a worse Kirby, so I don't feel as bad sine I can't spike, but can only walk on faces repeatedly.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah that's why i don't do competitive brawl much anymore, (minimal at best). I'm focusing mostly on 64, but i put my time on all versions as well

and no real men main kirby

Yeah, I got camped out by a ROB in an 11 minute 3 stock match in a tournament once, and I was pissed after the match.

The worst part is I had 2 stocks left and he had 1, and I went for the kill recklessly for the last 3 minutes. I went from nearly having a JV4 stock to barely winning because I got tired of countering his totally stalling, camping, and running away tactics with kinda sorta camping tactics.

Then I lost the next two matches (the last 1 getting timed out), and I thought then and there "this is the last time I play this game competitively." I then went to the Melee tournament, watched people play, and did a few friendlies there.

And eh, I actually have a pocket Kirby in Smash 64 and I had one in Brawl. I used to have a pocket Kirby back in Melee, back when I was turrible!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Real men main Pichu.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Yaaaarg why must people misunderstand my posts. I never said you took a jab at them anywhere. All I said is using the statement, "I can beat players who are good at game X, at Game Y & Z" is moot. That's all. No ill begotten remarks or thoughts, just a comment.



I'm talking Melee. And only scum main Kirby in Smash 64....such as myself haha. However I feel inclined to use Jiggs more because she's just a worse Kirby, so I don't feel as bad sine I can't spike, but can only walk on faces repeatedly.

I'm talking melee as well dude, i only go secondary marth for tier reasons.
Anyways good nite dude.
@John you told me the rob story 3 times already I remember most of what you guys post

 

[Johnknight1]

Double post (I'm going to bed, my brain isn't working)

Blame the site.

Yaaaarg why must people misunderstand my posts. I never said you took a jab at them anywhere. All I said is using the statement, "I can beat players who are good at game X, at Game Y & Z" is moot. That's all. No ill begotten remarks or thoughts, just a comment.

Well Project M is very Brawlsy in a lot of ways, and since the techniques are very easy to pull off in Project M generally (especially with the Brawl characters a lot of Brawl players play), it's not much of a transition for them as some make it out to be. I've found the same thing to be true with Brawl Plus and Brawl Minus.

I'm just pointing out that although they have great strategic skill at Brawl, their technical skill and total game refinement tends to be rather poor compared to Smash 64 or Melee players much lower on the totem pole of those games competitively, sans for most of the tip top players.

Brawl's lack of speed and hard to perform technicality that helps is ultimately why they aren't good at those things most of the time. After all, why work on what you don't use=???

In other words, I agree with you... although in a more detailed way!!!

Anyways, going off this tangent to bring the discussion back on topic, I really would wonder what potential newcomer could feel equal parts "Brawlsy" and "Meleesy". The only one I can think off the top of my head are K. Rool, Miis, and Isaac, truthfully.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Blame the site.


Well Project M is very Brawlsy in a lot of ways, and since the techniques are very easy to pull off in Project M generally (especially with the Brawl characters a lot of Brawl players play), it's not much of a transition for them as some make it out to be. I've found the same thing to be true with Brawl Plus and Brawl Minus.

I'm just pointing out that although they have great strategic skill at Brawl, their technical skill and total game refinement tends to be rather poor compared to Smash 64 or Melee players much lower on the totem pole of those games competitively, sans for most of the tip top players.

Brawl's lack of speed and hard to perform technicality that helps is ultimately why they aren't good at those things most of the time. After all, why work on what you don't use=???

In other words, I agree with you... although in a more detailed way!!!

Anyways, going off this tangent to bring the discussion back on topic, I really would wonder what potential newcomer could feel equal parts "Brawlsy" and "Meleesy". The only one I can think off the top of my head are K. Rool, Miis, and Isaac, truthfully.

Ridley.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just stopping by to say that in my casual browsing, I saw a really really long post. To the author, I just want to tell you that brevity might help you in the long run.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Just stopping by to say that in my casual browsing, I saw a really really long post. To the author, I just want to tell you that brevity might help you in the long run.

EddyBearr, king of tl;dr.

----

 

[Deleted member]

.....I have been usurped?

Damn.

 

[Baskerville]

Well this thread... continues to be what I expected.

 

[AEMehr]

Late to the party as per usual, but I saw something of interest...
[collapse="Eddy's Roster"]

Cult Appeasing Roster.
Casual/party/family appeasing roster.
Explanations at bottom.
Expecting flame.

I don't see what makes this appeasing to Smash Fans.

Snake stays: We don't need any more 3rd party, even if Namco is developing. Snake staying helps keep some "more serious" gamers interested in the game.

What? Are you seriously suggesting that Snake staying keeps "srs gamrs" playing smash. Pretty horrible reason to bring Snake back. That's like saying we should add characters from casual games so we can have casuals play the game.

Waluigi & Baby Bowser: Casual Party-Players love both Waluigi and Bowser Jr. To them, they think "Why are they both in Mario Kart, but not Smash Bros?" I'm sure there are some kids out there who go through random Waluigi phases, and I know that Bowser Jr. is a hardcore casual favorite, so both should be in. Toad is left out, as casuals might say: Toad can't fight!|

I spoke far too soon obviously.

I understand your reasoning behind this "Casual friendly" roster, but this game is not made for casuals. It's made for Smash Brothers and Nintendo fans. Nintendo fans are not necessarily "casual" gamers, which makes this roster very misguided. You're explanation of what these people think makes them sound like children. "Why are they both in Mario Kart, but not in Smash???". You're describing young children in grade school. Anybody can understand that they are MARIO characters, which is why they can appear in MARIO Kart. Sure people may want those characters in Smash Brothers (I myself would be fond of both Junior and Waluigi), but be realistic here.
Now, if you're saying that this roster is purely based off a "What if we got a roster designed for the casual gamers" hypothetical scenario, power to you and all that. But I'm under the impression that this is a serious guess, and this is just completely wrong.

We already are iffy on one Super Mario character, two will not happen. Even if your casual scenario plays out, two Super Mario characters just won't happen.

Mii: Every little kid wants to be a part of their favorite game, and little kids play Smash. It means little to us more serious gamers, but Sakurai has explicitly said he isn't aiming to please us, even going as far as to call us "maniacs."

I'm sorry, but I'm sure he called the crazy good tournament players "Maniacs". Not people who play the game a bit more seriously than those who just pick it up and play. If he isn't aiming to please the consumers who bought the previous products, then he shouldn't be calling this game "Super Smash Brothers". We're buying the game, he's going to need to please us if he wants our money.

With that said, your reasoning for Miis are pure rubbish. Miis should only get in because the kiddies want to play as themselves? Yeah right, sure.
There is no doubt that they would much rather play as their favorite character and beat up other characters they don't care as much for.
I still think a Mii has a great shot in getting in, but not for that reasoning.

Tetra: Bolder guess & personal preference. I think she's the most likely Zelda Newcomer, and I think a Zelda Newcomer is more likely than, say, Shulk.

???
I don't even this statement. There is no reasoning here other than "I like Tetra and 5Zelda is more likely than shulk because"

No Chrom: Conflicting niche with Marth and Ike. Ike fights for his friends. Quotes = casual love.

Quotes = Casual love, eh? Where's Reggie then?

Anna: FE warrants a third rep, and Anna fills a niche that finishes off the "FE sword users." She's small/light/fast/flexible/etc.

So for the third Fire Emblem rep you avoided the casual opinion in Chrom and went with the arguably more hardcore decision of Anna. This fits in with your roster very well.

Krystal: For the casual girls. They exist, there are many of them, and many of them love Krystal. Krystal not being playable was something many of htem hated.

Assuming that casuals today even know that Star Fox exists out of Smash Brothers. Is Krystal normally a good choice, yeah. But in this circumstance she's a pretty dumb one.

Isaac>Shulk: Popularity, potential, uniqueness, and semi-cult appeasement.

>Implying that adding Shulk wouldn't suffice those exact same things.
Not to mention that Xenoblade is a much more recent title, wouldn't that mean more "Casuals" know more about him before Isaac?

No Ness: Super bold, but I think one will get cut. Ness has veteran status, while Lucas is more recent/etc. Most casuals I've talked to think Lucas is cooler.

You say you want to appease cults as well, but you cut the main character from the biggest video game cult franchise ever.

No R.O.B.: R.O.B. sucksssss. Nobody likes R.O.B.

No Wolf: I think the Space Animal fans can take the hit. Krystal would probably be a better character in if we're trying to increase revenue and please customers. Star Fox shouldn't even have 3 reps at this point, but I feel it will retain all 3.

Oh yes, because we need the money from the furries. I mean it's not like Wolf has any real significance in the franchise or anything.

No Ridley: He's a boss. Casuals know him as a Brawl Boss.

Don't want to confuse the casual base now do we? Although, I don't know of any casual Metroid fans. So I don't really know who is really getting hurt if Ridley did make it in as a playable character.

Appeasing Ridley cult: "Boss Mode" has an option where the user with the Wii U Gamepad can play as the bosses, so you can play as Ridley.

"Sorry Ridley fans, buy a Wii U! It needs more sales anyways [Laughs]."

You don't even mention not having a retro character. But I assume retro characters don't make the casual base happy, right? Well if that is the case, why the hell did you decide to keep the Climbers and Game & Watch? Casual fan base can't get anything out of them, you should add a Nintendog and an Angry Bird while you're at it too.

Also, why keep Mega Man?? The casual players shouldn't even know who he is, he hasn't had a game in a while now. Why not add in Ghost from Call of Duty? I'm sure he'd bring in even more "Mature" gamers than Snake ever will.

Your entire viewpoint of what the roster could become is just so horrifying that it'll probably give me nightmares when I try to sleep tonight.
I'm not sure what possessed you into considering that this is even slightly possible.[/collapse]

---

Yeah, I got camped out by a ROB in an 11 minute 3 stock match in a tournament once, and I was pissed after the match.

The worst part is I had 2 stocks left and he had 1, and I went for the kill recklessly for the last 3 minutes. I went from nearly having a JV4 stock to barely winning because I got tired of countering his totally stalling, camping, and running away tactics with kinda sorta camping tactics.

Then I lost the next two matches (the last 1 getting timed out), and I thought then and there "this is the last time I play this game competitively." I then went to the Melee tournament, watched people play, and did a few friendlies there.

Jesus, is that how people use R.O.B. competitively? That doesn't even sound like fun for the R.O.B. player either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

For some reason people have wanted Ness gone ever since his debut dating all the way back in 1999. In fact, I'm getting flashbacks to pre-Brawl where a lot of people wanted half of the roster gone, including the proposition of scrapping Marth, Roy, Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo etc.

Why did they want Marth, Captain Falcon, Mewtwo and Ness removed?

Hey, I have an interesting topic.

In Brawl, we saw 9 (10 if you count Zero Suit Samus) newcomers on the starting roster. We previously had 4 or 5 (Sheik) on the Melee starting roster. I can't speak for everyone, but I was a bit disappointed, as the majority of the newcomers were revealed so early, with only a handful of the newcomers were hidden. Even two of the hidden newcomers, Snake and Sonic, were shown off early.

My question is, do you think Sakurai will try to mend this, keeping most of the newcomers hidden and not showed off until release, or do you think it will be the same as Brawl?

I think most of the unlockable characters would be veterans.

Agreed. I see K. Rool as all but guaranteed, while Dixie Kong is IMO a bit under 50/50.

Dixie could easily be Smash 4's Wolf (late-ish add kinda sorta but not really), albeit I see her specials being more unique.

Especially since he was in Fire Emblem: Awakening, he's one of the only 2 Fire Emblem characters to star in 2 or more games (the other obviously being Marth), and he's one of the most popular Brawl characters.

Agree with this sentiment, so I'll just nod my head.

 

[Berserker.]

"Toad can't fight"

Wait you----

*pulls out gun*

*loads bullets*

*aims left*

*aims right*

*aims forward*

*aims backward*

*aims upward*

*aims downward*

You saw this O_o ?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Casual (including Core) gamers outnumber hardcore gamers by a huge margin.

Tell them to go **** themselves.

 

[Berserker.]

Tell them to go **** themselves.

Um....... No

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Hopefully the thread doesn't explode again lat-oh who am I kidding it explodes every single day at least once.

 

[Gene]

Yeah, I got camped out by a ROB in an 11 minute 3 stock match in a tournament once, and I was pissed after the match.

The worst part is I had 2 stocks left and he had 1, and I went for the kill recklessly for the last 3 minutes. I went from nearly having a JV4 stock to barely winning because I got tired of countering his totally stalling, camping, and running away tactics with kinda sorta camping tactics.

Then I lost the next two matches (the last 1 getting timed out), and I thought then and there "this is the last time I play this game competitively." I then went to the Melee tournament, watched people play, and did a few friendlies there.

And eh, I actually have a pocket Kirby in Smash 64 and I had one in Brawl. I used to have a pocket Kirby back in Melee, back when I was turrible!

You lost to a campy character with using Toon Link, who can be just as campy? I mean toon link has more projectiles to spam at him and you have the hook shot, so if you space him out while using your specials and zair the match up shouldn't be so bad for your character. I think all of toon links specials and his zair can stop ROB's gyro, even just simply blocking it and the laser.


In short, just out camp campy characters until they're mad. They will come eventually.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Wait you----

I imagine the faces of these hypothetical casuals when they discovered Princess Peach of all people turned out to be a fighter.

They must of **** themselves inside-out in shock.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Arcadenik]

I imagine the faces of these hypothetical casuals when they discovered Princess Peach of all people turned out to be a fighter.

They must of **** themselves inside-out in shock.

I bet those filthy casuals are more shocked by Zelda.... "wait, Zelda is a separate character from the boy in green tights?!"

 

[Chandeelure]

At least is not a Toon Link screenshot...
I miss the Phyrosphere screenshots XD

 

[ChronoBound]

I wrote this on the Project M board in support of an Advance/Famicom Wars character, personally since a character from this series is not likely for Smash 4, its seriously something that should be explored for Project M, especially considering how feasible it would be (Snake clone).

Smash Bros. has always been a gathering of all of Nintendo’s various franchises and history. With each subsequent installment of Smash Bros. new franchises are granted content in Smash Bros., whether it be playable characters, stages, items, Assist Trophies, music, or trophies. There has been a greater call for Sakurai to give more Nintendo series a playable character in Smash Bros., and so far it looks like this will be the case (of the two Nintendo newcomers shown so far, both of them were representing series lacking a playable character in Brawl). Both “rumored” (from the same source that leaked Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Mega Man) Nintendo newcomers for Smash 4 (Little Mac and Mii) are also characters from series lacking playable in Brawl.

However, although this a positive sign, there are still quite a few series that very likely won’t receive a playable character in Smash 4, despite clearly deserving one. Golden Sun is a possible example of this. Despite Isaac being very highly requested for Smash 4 (among the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 among Western Smash Bros. fans), the very dismal performance of the third installment in Japan, as well as the lack of requests among Japanese fans, may mean the series will yet again only receive an Assist Trophy as opposed to a playable character (probably of Matthew).

However, in terms of long-running Nintendo franchises, perhaps the one example that is most striking, and much more likely than Golden Sun to be ignored in Smash 4, is that that of the Wars franchise (Famicom/Advance Wars). This series only received an Assist Trophy (which basically consisted of three sprite rips from GBA games), a trophy of that Assist Trophy, and six stickers (Andy, Sami, Max, Jake, Rachel, and Hawke).

The dismal popularity to the franchise in Japan, as well as the very low amount of requests in the West, basically ensures that the series won’t be receiving a playable character in Smash 4 at the very least (it may even lose its Assist Trophy representation).

However, the Wars franchise is a series that is very much deserving of playable representation in Smash Bros. Aside from Punch-Out, it’s the longest running Nintendo franchise with at least five installments under its belt, that has not been given a playable character yet in Smash Bros.

A little history and background about the Wars franchise.

The Wars franchise is often either referred to as the Famicom Wars or Advance Wars franchise. Depending on who you ask, the series have a minimum of seven installments to a maximum of twelve installments. There are seven games in the series developed by Intelligent Systems (Famicom Wars, Game Boy Wars, Super Famicom Wars, Advance Wars, Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising, Advance Wars: Dual Strike, Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict). For the remaining five games, three of the games were developed and published by Hudson (a third-party), which were Game Boy Wars Turbo, Game Boy Wars 2, and Game Boy Wars 3. The remaining two games were real time strategy games developed by Kuju Entertainment (Battalion Wars and Battalion Wars 2).

Still, even strictly looking at the games developed in the series by Intelligent Systems (seven in all), the series is clearly deserving of a playable character.

Famicom Wars was the predecessor to Fire Emblem, being released by Intelligent Systems about two years before the first game in that series was released. While the Famicom Wars games (Famicom Wars, Game Boy Wars, and Super Famicom Wars) never reached the highs that the Fire Emblem series did in Japan in terms of popularity and sales, it did see a large fan following upon its first international release.

The first international release for the franchise was Advance Wars, released in September 10, 2001. The first international release was met with enormous praise and accolades. The game consequentially sold very well. In addition to the popularity of Marth and Roy in Melee, another huge factor for Fire Emblem going international was the sales success and praise of Advance Wars, according to one of the designers of the game.

As with the original Advance Wars, the sequel was also met with sales success and accolades in the West. This case was repeated with Dual Strike and Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict.

The case though with Japan was different. Although Advance Wars was originally planned for an October 2001 release, it was delayed in Japan due to the September 11th terrorist attacks, and the second installment as well was never released. It was not until November 25th 2004 that those games were released in Japan as part of a duo pack cartridge, however, it ended up selling poorly due to how close it was released to the Nintendo DS’s launch in Japan. Dual Strike also ended up selling poorly in Japan. The poor sales of the previous three titles developed by Intelligent Systems, may have been the primary reason why Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict was never released in Japan despite being made by a Japanese developer and already having a Japanese translation available for the game.

With three games released in the interim between Melee and Brawl (just going by Intelligent System’s mainline series), and Advance Wars released only two months prior to Melee, many people felt it was unfair that the series was basically ignored in terms of content in Brawl.

Being a very long running (starting from 1988), popular, and having many installments under its belt, why shouldn’t this notable Nintendo franchise have a playable character for Project M (especially since it likely will never happen for Smash Bros.)?

Well, for one, only four of the games developed by Intelligent Systems (the four combined games on the GBA and DS), were actually story driven (expanding it to the Battalion Wars games, only half of the entire series 6/12 actually had a plot).

Secondly, the Project M team has said that only characters that appeared in Brawl could be under consideration for playable inclusion as possible newcomers in Project M. This leaves only seven possible characters from this series to be under possible consideration for Project M: Andy, Sami, Max, Jake, Rachel, Hawke, and a generic soldier.

Regardless of the character chosen, it would probably be for the best to make the character someone that is a clone of Snake, who possesses a lot of military hardware and weapons.

Let’s get into each possible candidate.

Max:

Max is one of the most important CO’s in the entire series. He was a major supporting protagonist in Advance Wars, Black Hole Rising, and Dual Strike. While he did not have as much importance as Andy in the first one, he shared prominence with Sami and Andy in the sequel, and had the most important role of the “Big 3” in Dual Strike.

While Max is a part of the original CO trifecta, he often comes up less than both Andy and Sami as a prospective character. Due to his huge muscles, its pretty easy to imagine him as a “power” character, who have very strong physical power and a very high weight, but comes at the cost of speed and usually recovery. Considering that Snake is already a heavy, slow, and powerful character, putting in Max may not be as contrasting as other possible Advance Wars characters.

Jake:

Jake was basically the main character of Dual Strike. Nothing else can be said here. Despite being the main character of his game he rarely comes up. He could theoretically be quick, light, and weaker than Snake, though he could also fit in as an “well rounded” Snake clone. Nothing else to say here.

Rachel:

She is among the most important CO’s of Dual Strike. She is probably the most well known female CO after Sami. Nothing else to say about her

Hawke:

He was a major antagonist in Black Hole Rising. He returned in Dual Strike as a supporting protagonist. There is nothing else to say about him.

Generic soldier:

These characters have appeared in every game to this series, and were the Assist Trophy representing the franchise in Brawl (as sprite rips). While they come up every now and then, they are basically faceless characters.

There is really only two good choices for a possible character to represent the Wars franchise: Andy and Sami.

Both of these characters have various things going for them over the other one, so it may be down to personal preference as to which character would be the better one to represent the franchise.

Andy:

Andy was the most important character in the first international title to the Wars franchise, Advance Wars. He returned again in the sequel Black Hole Rising as one of the three most important protagonists. In Dual Strike, he is an unlockable character.
Due to Andy’s prominence in the first two international titles, he is one of the two most popularly requested character for an Advance Wars character. He could be a light quick weaker version of Snake.

Although he is not even seen using military weapons (he is usually depicted in artwork holding a wrench instead), there have been other child or child-like fighters in Smash Bros. before (Ness, Young Link, Toon Link, Lucas, Pit).

Andy may be the most well-known character in the series due to his prominence in the first two international games in the series.

Sami:

Spoiler

Sami was an important character in the first international Wars title, Advance Wars. She returned again in Black Hole rising, as one of three most important protagonists. She also made an appearance in Dual Strike.

Although not as important as Andy is, she rivals him in requests. Her prominence in the first two international titles, as well as her sporting military hardware in nearly every official piece of artwork for her,has made her the only other character from the series to receive a notable amount of requests. Additional artwork where she has be seen using realistic weapons are below:

Her usage of military weapons in nearly all of her official artwork, has made people more easily see her as a possible clone of Snake.

Andy vs. Sami:

Its really down to these two characters as to which one should represent the Wars franchise. Both have various advantages and disadvantages.

Andy:
+ Most well known Advance Wars character.
+ One of the two most requested Advance Wars characters.
+ Has more importance overall to the series than Sami.
- Is not as “hand to hand combat orientated” as Sami in both artwork and personality.
- May end up being criticized for “stealing a spot” from a more requested character due being both less popular and well known that more requested possible Project M newcomers.

Sami:
+ Probably the most well known character after Andy.
+ One of the two most requested Advance Wars characters.
+ Has high importance to the series
+ Is shown using military weapons in all of her artwork, making the transition to being a Snake clone much more believable.
+ Being female could shield her from more criticism if people are unaware of who she is (Zero Suit Samus/Wii Fit Trainer principle)
- Less important to the series than Andy, as well as less known.
- May seem like a “random” addition due to not having a singular “most important protagonist” role.

As such it may be down to which factors the person reading this values more.

However, there is another factor to look into which is, “how will people who are absolutely unfamiliar with this character, view him/her.”

For those who were around for the “Melee era” (basically, those who bought Melee back when Melee was first released or bought it prior to Brawl’s release). Think about your reaction to Marth and Roy. Nearly everyone who first unlocked those two characters in Melee did not know who they were or even what series they were from.

However, a lot of those people unfamiliar with those two characters, still felt a desire to play with them, and upon playing them, thought they were great additions to the roster. Many, many people (including myself) ending up enjoying Marth and/or Roy so much, that they sought out to play the source material games for their series (the Fire Emblem series).

Although Marth was a popularly requested character for Melee by the Japanese fanbase (he was by far more supported than the more recent lords Sigurd, Celice/Seliph, and Leaf despite his game having been released over seven years ago by the time Sakurai was taking fan requests for Melee), Roy was a character that Sakurai took a gamble on. Contrary to popular belief, it was Sakurai’s idea, not Intelligent System’s, to include Roy in Melee. When Sakurai had decided to expand Melee’s roster with six additional clones, one of the clone spots he decided on was one for Fire Emblem.

(Its important to note that Sakurai himself is a big fan of the Fire Emblem series. He took Iwata’s place in the Iwata Asks interview for Shadow Dragon, has a copy of FE3 downloaded onto his Wii, and has even gone on the record as to his favorite FE character, Nabarl, a mercenary from the games that Marth has been in).

Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems for permission to use a second Fire Emblem character for Melee, and while he was there got a sneak peak at FE6, which was in development at the time. Seeing Roy, Sakurai took a liking to the character, and became convinced that he would be a better choice than the three Jugdral lords (all of which received barely any requests from Sakurai’s pre-Melee poll). Sakurai felt that Roy’s fire sword helped contrast him more than other possible choices for a second Fire Emblem character. He also thought could help promote the series as a whole. Sakurai further explained on Roy’s update on the Japanese Melee Dojo that although players had yet to play Roy’s source material game, that he felt many people would love Roy for his “charm”.

It ended up that Roy became one of the most popular newcomers from Melee, and that he brought in a lot of new fans to the Fire Emblem series, proving Sakurai’s intuition correct.

From this history lesson, perhaps further clarity could be given to the Project M team about which Advance Wars character to choose to represent this long neglected (but important) Nintendo franchise, should they deem whether a character from this series would be something they would like to do or would be received well..

The thing is that both Andy and Sami are both relatively unknown characters today’s generation of Nintendo fans. The last Advance Wars game was released nearly six years ago (Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict). The last game to which both Andy and Sami had their most important role was in 2003 (although both characters also appearing in Dual Strike in 2005, they definitely did note have the prominence in it that they did in the previous two Advance Wars titles).

It might be more helpful to look at these two characters through the perspective of how people will like/enjoy them without knowing anything about them, and how likely they are to draw people in, much like Marth and Roy did back in Melee.

The fact is that Advance Wars characters have less requests than several other possible Project M newcomers, despite how feasible they would be (it would be very appropriate to make them Snake clones). As such, they need to look at this through the lens of how people they did not know about them or ask for them, will view the character.

As Sakurai would like to say, “Is the character someone that would make people want to try the game?”

While Andy has more importance over Sami, Sami might be more attractive as a character that would get more people to try the “Advance Wars character” simply due to how much she would contrast with the rest of the roster (there are only three-four woman fighters on the roster, and in terms of requests for Project M newcomers, Lyn is the only woman that is popularly requested). However, while she would seem like a much better addition in the eyes of those unfamiliar with the franchise, she may end up seeming “less deserving” to those more familiar with the franchise.

It would be fitting to go with the “Marth/Roy principle” for an Advance Wars characters considering the franchise is the sister series to Fire Emblem. By making the character appealing, they would help bring in possible new fans to the Wars franchise after enjoying the character in Project M, and yet also make them seem more at “home” in Smash Bros.

However, in my view, both characters are deserving of playable inclusion in Project M, and would help bring an important aspect of Nintendo’s history to the roster.

Some obstacles with including an Advance Wars character:

There are definitely a few obstacles to including an Advance Wars character:
- They are not highly requested as over choices.
- They have no 3D models for which the Project M team to base off of for how they would look in 3D.
- Have no voices (would require file rips from other video games for characters that may seem similar enough to them, that they would plausibly work as a voice for Andy or Sami in Project M).
- Likely would be unable to have the Cyper as a recovery move since that is a Metal Gear exclusive machine, so a new recovery move would have to be made for them.
- Copter Final Smash with the reticule may not be the most appropriate (a Landmaster-esque Final Smash where a tank from Advance Wars comes down may be a better choice).

However, despite this, including an Advance Wars fighter would still be an attractive choice. As said, a character from this franchise would represent one of the longest running Nintendo franchise lacking a playable character in Smash Bros. Secondly, depending on how they execute, they would repeat the “Marth/Roy principle” which is a character for which most people are unfamiliar with would end up becoming one of the most popular additions, simply due to how distinctive they are with the rest of the cast.

The Project M team has the opportunity to finally do things that that Sakurai has yet to do in Smash Bros. (the jury is still out on whether Ridley will be playable or Ganondorf will be de-cloned in Smash 4). However, as it stands, its very unlikely that an Advance Wars character will be added in Smash 4 for the reasons outlined in this piece.

The Wars franchise is the sister-series for Fire Emblem and probably the most popular and iconic Nintendo franchise (aside from Golden Sun) that will still be lacking a playable character in Smash Bros. after the release of Smash 4. For this reason, such a character is an extremely attractive choice to the Project M team as well as fans of both Nintendo and Smash Bros.

I hope that this piece offers some more clarity on this topic as well as this often over-looked franchise. It may have been long, but I hope that a few people at least had some enjoyment (or at least interest) in reading it.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think that for the sake of the Ridley fanbase's sanity, Sakurai probably should not show any more Pyrosphere pictures for a while.

 

[Curious Villager]

It's okay, he already started trolling the Pokemon fanbase now that he got his fill from the Ridley fans anyway.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think Sakurai was really trolling the Pokemon fanbase since he never had plans for a Pokemon character reveal to coincide with X & Y. He even said so when he showed that picture with Pikachu and Xerneas last Friday. It is even possible that Sakurai has no plans for a playable Pokemon from X & Y... Sakurai started development for SSB4 back in March or April 2012 and Pokemon X & Y wasn't even announced till January 2013. Sakurai must have already decided on the SSB4 roster before that Pokemon announcement. So, it is possible that we might get a playable Pokemon from Black & White (maybe Zoroark) while most of the Pokeball Pokemon may be from X & Y and Black & White with a few returning Pokeball Pokemon from Brawl (Meowth, Snorlax, Goldeen, etc.)

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't think Sakurai was really trolling the Pokemon fanbase since he never had plans for a Pokemon character reveal to coincide with X & Y. He even said so when he showed that picture with Pikachu and Xerneas last Friday. It is even possible that Sakurai has no plans for a playable Pokemon from X & Y... Sakurai started development for SSB4 back in March or April 2012 and Pokemon X & Y wasn't even announced till January 2013. Sakurai must have already decided on the SSB4 roster before that Pokemon announcement. So, it is possible that we might get a playable Pokemon from Black & White (maybe Zoroark) while most of the Pokeball Pokemon may be from X & Y and Black & White with a few returning Pokeball Pokemon from Brawl (Meowth, Snorlax, Goldeen, etc.)

I.... actually wouldn't mind if Sakurai turned the tables compared to Brawl and made an X/Y pokemon a boss character while an Black/White Pokemon a playable character. (Assuming of course we get a Pokemon newcomer) Which I actually wouldn't mind really.

I wouldn't mind if Zygarde or Yveltal became a boss. (if boss battles returns).

And have Zoroark or Genesect be playable. (Especially Zoroark for me)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I secretly hope Sakurai realizes the potential of Zoroark.