Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[LoneKonWolf]

Oh, nothing.....just PANDA BEAR MADNESS MINUTE!!!

You know, if this page is ********, then why are you on it?

I don't think anyone knows the answer, this is kind of the place where there's either smart and reasonably inquires, or the other which is kind of above this sentence,
there is no and or between
I use this place to go if I have free time of my studies. that is my reason

http://www.examiner.com/article/super-smash-bros-4-wii-u-and-3ds-release-date-potentially-listed
What do you guys think?

I don't think that is right I'd imagine that they would rather release it upcoming the holiday season

 

[Autumn ♫]

You know, if this page is ********, then why are you on it?

It's not an opinion, but a fact.

 

[Deleted member]

We're all tard again.

 

[Bajef8]

He explicitly stated that Smash Bros. focuses on "intermediate/core" gamers, and takes very little feedback from "hardcore gamers." This is not an opinion, this is fact. The quote is right there on the kotaku mega-interview.
Unless we say Sakurai is lying in a serious interview, the idea that Smash is Targeting "Semi-casuals" and mostly ignoring "competitives" is an objective reality.

Uhm....he caters to middle grounders you say...yet he made Brawl slower and easier to play than the series' previous games. Kinda catering to casuals. Ever heard that phrase actions speak louder than words. Couldn't apply more to this argument. Melee catered to "core/intermediate" gamers AKA the middle grounders. It just had numerous "glitches" so to speak, that the hardcores took it to the HNL. Hole. Nuvva. Level.

Bonus points if you know what I was referencing there.

Also, he "takes very little feedback from hardcore gamers"?

Excerpt from the Kotaku article: Of course, hardcore players might take issue with it, so that’s why we decided to make it an option you can turn on or off.
That goes along with thinking about how I think each player should be able to customise the experience so we can accommodate different play styles. It’s very important for me for everybody to have the play experience that they want. It’s also very important for me to be able to accommodate the opinions of the most passionate players, of course, which tend to be the more advanced players.

So you are wrong that he focuses on only one group, he focuses on each demographic, ranging from casual to hardcore. And in fact you could say he takes into special consideration what the advanced players have to say.

Brawl leaned towards helping casuals get into the series: fact. But he didn't forget everyone else.

 

[EddyBearr]

Haha, if you try to go for the minority when marketing then you're going to miss out on a lot of money from the majority. The miniscule amount that makes up the ones "on edge" are much smaller then you're making it out to be and there's only so much that you can do to appeal to those people. For instance, there's definitely a small group supporting Master Chief in Smash no doubt, but would that be feasible for Nintendo to get in game?

But that's just it, my numbers (ex: 0.1%,) were not meant to represent what percentage of potential buyers is the "Core Gamer" group. "Core Gamers" are targeted by video game marketing because they are, indeed, the most significant. There numbers are quite large, presumably the largest (hence being "the core,) and their the ones you must convince to buy the game. These are the gamers that define whether or not a game is a good seller. They are, indeed, a huge group.
I'm not saying that 0.01% of people won't buy it unless Vegeta is added, therefore we should add vegeta. What I am saying is that, through my own observation, it seems that Core Gamers are more interested in Bowser Jr., Waluigi, and Krystal, than in Chrom or Ridley (there is noteworthy Ridley support.) I've stated that my observations are imperfect, and anecdotal, but they're the best I have to work with, so I work with them. If I want to make a prediction, I'm gonna have to work with what I have to work with.

Your type of humor rings quite hollow to me. Also, as many have said, if it didn't stop Mr. Game and Watch from returning, why would it stop ROB? Tell me that.

Because Game & Watch's reception, though he wasn't a fan-favorite like Marth or Sheik, was a bit more "well, okay." R.O.B.s reception, on the other hand, was absolutely horrendous. It has been pointed out that this is most likely due to the vast speculation from Brawl, so people blamed R.O.B. for their favored pick not getting in, but regardless of whether or not it's R.O.B.'s fault that happened (it wouldn't be,) that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Out of all the plausible cuts, the ones I've been seeing from my observation and anecdotal experience are: Lucas/Ness, Wolf, R.O.B., and Snake. Again, based on my own imperfect observation, it seemed like R.O.B. was hated on most, Lucas/Ness (people hate one, but kinda split) second, wolf third, and Snake least. Above that, it seemed like there are many folks, more "mature" folks, who would potentially pass on Smash4 without Snake, so R.O.B. (alongside Lucas/Ness, and Wolf) seemed like the most plausible cuts, from a perspective of aiming to please the Core Gamers in order to get hte most sales. Cuts seem necessary due to plenty of good newcomers and general roster limitations expected.

"In terms of characters." Note that the quote doesn't say anything about characters. Even playing by your rules, Sakurai never appeals to one over the other, you have your "casual" characters and your "hardcore" characters. This whole distinction crap is non-existent and nonproblemic, and the fact that you're trying to perpetuate it based on the filmiest of information is ridiculous.

As I've stated, objective information not heavily tainted with serious gamers is hard to find. I wanted to make a roster prediction, so I had to go with the anecdotal evidence I had acquired. Based on this evidence (which I know is weak,) I've been seeing noteworthy differences between competitive gamers and core gamers, most signficantly with R.O.B. (Competitive gamers are obsessed with his merit due to Nintendo history, I've never met a core gamer who thought that.) I know very well the argument is weak, the evidence is weak, I know that. The problem is: it's the best I can work with right now, and that's why my prediction stays the way it stays. Give me some more solid evidence, and I'll hop onto it right away.

It's already been beat to death why that argument is full of crap, Charizard was a Pokeball Pokémon, Giga Bowser became a FS (and was larger to boot), Metal Mario is an item, etc. Hell, Ridley got resized in Brawl itself! Canon and consistency do not exist that well in the realms of SSB, Ridley is not the magical exception, it can happen, it has happened, stop trying to push something that has been disproven.

Charizard: false analogy. He's still a "pokeball pokemon" in a strong sense (he's not roaming free,) and didn't drastically change in size. He's also not the first "pokemon" to be playable. Repeating it isn't going to make it a proper analogy.
Metal Mario: A mini-boss, who was literally nothing more than Mario with a metal coat, replaced with an item that gives mario a metal coat. This is not nearly as significant as taking Master Hand, making him the size of..say.. 3 Jigglypuffs, and making him playable. It's not nearly as significant as a Smash Boss
Ridley's resizing: It's as noteworthy as Pikachu being the size of a foot in an SSB opening. It's not something that truly sticks in your mind, as it was a short cutscene that only die-hard fans paid notes to.
Giga Bowser: Giga Bowser went from being Bowser on Steroids NPC and "Huge" to being "an amount more huge" and Bowser on steroids (NPC or Player). It's just nothing like this. No leap in Smash standards is as big as Ridley's.

And again, where do the characters fit into that? That's never been an area Sakurai differentiates and I've constantly given you examples of that, putting your fingers in your ears and singing "Lalala" does not neuter the point.

In truth and honesty, I think you have a double standard in your arguing process and a view of the game's roster and deciding process that has never been supported or seen.

I've told you, it's based upon the lackluster evidence I have acquired. Dichotomies in how different gaming groups view characters has been something I've "just been noticing." Some empirical, some anecdotal, and evaluated based upon my values (What I think matters in Smash.) I've told you it's not extremely powerful evidence, but it's all I have to work with. When given what I have to work with, my predictions are what I see as most likely. Give me some more objective information to work with, and my predictions will evolve, but until then, this is what I'm seeing as most likely, based upon what I've been seeing.

both casual and hardcore are important

Both matter, that's for sure. The problems?

Casual (including Core) gamers outnumber hardcore gamers by a huge margin.
-Sakurai has been quoted on record as saying that he focuses on core gamers, and mostly ignores hardcore gamers' feedback.

Uhm....he caters to middle grounders you say...yet he made Brawl slower and easier to play than the series' previous games. Kinda catering to casuals. Ever heard that phrase actions speak louder than words. Couldn't apply more to this argument. Melee catered to "core/intermediate" gamers AKA the middle grounders. It just had numerous "glitches" so to speak, that the hardcores took to the HNL. Hole. Nuvva. Level.

Bonus points if you know what I was referencing there.

Also, he "takes very little feedback from hardcore gamers"?

Excerpt from the Kotaku article: Of course, hardcore players might take issue with it, so that’s why we decided to make it an option you can turn on or off.
That goes along with thinking about how I think each player should be able to customise the experience so we can accommodate different play styles. It’s very important for me for everybody to have the play experience that they want. It’s also very important for me to be able to accommodate the opinions of the most passionate players, of course, which tend to be the more advanced players.

So you are wrong that he focuses on only one group, he focuses on each demographic, ranging from casual to hardcore.

Brawl leaned towards helping casuals get into the series: fact. But he didn't forget everyone else.

Sakurai has been quoted as saying, "if Melee was for hardcore gamers, then Brawl was for casual gamers."
Sakurai has been quoted as saying, "We are aiming for Intermediate gamers" in the context of Smash 4.
Satoru Iwata has been quoted as saying that the Wii U specifically is meants to cater towards intermediate gamers.

Actions speak louder than words, but he never said melee catered to "core/intermediate" He did say that "if Melee was hardcore, Brawl was casual." He has never mentioned the "core" before. Given the context that Iwata is also talking about Wii U targeting Intermediate/Core gamers, I'm willing to bet his quote carries meaning.

And focusing on one group does not mean "only pays attention to that single group." Focusing means that attention is dedicated to that group, but attention may be diverted elsewhere. Them diverting some attention to appease Hardcore gamers who hated tripping does not automatically derail that they would be focusing on intermediate/core gamers.

Focusing never means forgetting anyone else, it just means "more attention than others." The scale of which can very from slight to massive.

 

[FlareHabanero]

We're all tard again.

I LIKE CHEESE!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

More ******** each day, this thread gets.

Ignoring what's important regarding characters, some people are. All up to Sakurai, it is. Appeal both crowds, Sakurai wants to, or include obscure content like some characters, stages and Assist Trophies, Sakurai wouldn't.

Ended, Frostwraith's patience has. Borrow his account, Frostwraith let me, so comment on this thread's stupidity on his behalf, I could.

(Note: This post doesn't necessarily reflect the account's owner's views... or do they?)

Like this more than one time, I wish I could, because Yoda.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I see Yoda. Did I miss something fun?

 

[Arcanir]

But that's just it, my numbers (ex: 0.1%,) were not meant to represent what percentage of potential buyers is the "Core Gamer" group. "Core Gamers" are targeted by video game marketing because they are, indeed, the most significant. There numbers are quite large, presumably the largest (hence being "the core,) and their the ones you must convince to buy the game. These are the gamers that define whether or not a game is a good seller. They are, indeed, a huge group.
I'm not saying that 0.01% of people won't buy it unless Vegeta is added, therefore we should add vegeta. What I am saying is that, through my own observation, it seems that Core Gamers are more interested in Bowser Jr., Waluigi, and Krystal, than in Chrom or Ridley (there is noteworthy Ridley support.) I've stated that my observations are imperfect, and anecdotal, but they're the best I have to work with, so I work with them. If I want to make a prediction, I'm gonna have to work with what I have to work with.

If they're imperfect, then that's a bad base to put your argument. Part of a good argument is to have something that supports it strongly, without strong support, it's just conjecture. Right now, I do not see the data or information given by you that properly supports your point, and if you can't prove a point with a strong argument, then the point doesn't have that much staying power.

Because Game & Watch's reception, though he wasn't a fan-favorite like Marth or Sheik, was a bit more "well, okay." R.O.B.s reception, on the other hand, was absolutely horrendous. It has been pointed out that this is most likely due to the vast speculation from Brawl, so people blamed R.O.B. for their favored pick not getting in, but regardless of whether or not it's R.O.B.'s fault that happened (it wouldn't be,) that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Out of all the plausible cuts, the ones I've been seeing from my observation and anecdotal experience are: Lucas/Ness, Wolf, R.O.B., and Snake. Again, based on my own imperfect observation, it seemed like R.O.B. was hated on most, Lucas/Ness (people hate one, but kinda split) second, wolf third, and Snake least. Above that, it seemed like there are many folks, more "mature" folks, who would potentially pass on Smash4 without Snake, so R.O.B. (alongside Lucas/Ness, and Wolf) seemed like the most plausible cuts, from a perspective of aiming to please the Core Gamers in order to get hte most sales. Cuts seem necessary due to plenty of good newcomers and general roster limitations expected.

Mr. Game and Watch went through the same crap ROB is going through currently. I remember Gamefaqs, IGN, what have you giving him crap and cutting him from their rosters for being "unpopular" or "unimportant." So no, the situations are similar.

And I've (and many others) already stated why I disagree with your points on Lucas/Ness, Wolf and Snake, so lets move on.

As I've stated, objective information not heavily tainted with serious gamers is hard to find. I wanted to make a roster prediction, so I had to go with the anecdotal evidence I had acquired. Based on this evidence (which I know is weak,) I've been seeing noteworthy differences between competitive gamers and core gamers, most signficantly with R.O.B. (Competitive gamers are obsessed with his merit due to Nintendo history, I've never met a core gamer who thought that.) I know very well the argument is weak, the evidence is weak, I know that. The problem is: it's the best I can work with right now, and that's why my prediction stays the way it stays. Give me some more solid evidence, and I'll hop onto it right away.

Not really, we can take from what we have in the roster, the actions of Sakurai, his words and otherwise. We don't have much of the latter, but we can take from the former, and the former is what makes me not believe your points as the roster has always has been rather balanced in appeal. So not only does your argument contradicts that, you admit that you don't have the evidence or knowledge to support that argument, so the argument doesn't have a good backing to it.

Charizard: false analogy. He's still a "pokeball pokemon" in a strong sense (he's not roaming free,) and didn't drastically change in size. He's also not the first "pokemon" to be playable. Repeating it isn't going to make it a proper analogy.
Metal Mario: A mini-boss, who was literally nothing more than Mario with a metal coat, replaced with an item that gives mario a metal coat. This is not nearly as significant as taking Master Hand, making him the size of..say.. 3 Jigglypuffs, and making him playable. It's not nearly as significant as a Smash Boss
Ridley's resizing: It's as noteworthy as Pikachu being the size of a foot in an SSB opening. It's not something that truly sticks in your mind, as it was a short cutscene that only die-hard fans paid notes to.
Giga Bowser: Giga Bowser went from being Bowser on Steroids NPC and "Huge" to being "an amount more huge" and Bowser on steroids (NPC or Player). It's just nothing like this. No leap in Smash standards is as big as Ridley's.

Again, there's that magical exception, you're trying to justify these other changes in role and size while the one character should be ignored in that regard. There's a change in role between Charizard and Metal Mario, there's a change in size with Giga Bowser, so tell me why Ridley is the exception when the rule has already been broken?

On top of that, Metroid Prime 3, a canon game, resized him within itself. So there's no reason why a non-canon game can't do the same.

I've told you, it's based upon the lackluster evidence I have acquired. Dichotomies in how different gaming groups view characters has been something I've "just been noticing." Some empirical, some anecdotal, and evaluated based upon my values (What I think matters in Smash.) I've told you it's not extremely powerful evidence, but it's all I have to work with. When given what I have to work with, my predictions are what I see as most likely. Give me some more objective information to work with, and my predictions will evolve, but until then, this is what I'm seeing as most likely, based upon what I've been seeing.

I'll say it again: You have to have a good base if you're going to make a controversial argument, and you don't. You keep saying one thing but do not provide the proper evidence to really prove it, whereas examples to the contrary can be seen in the roster/characters and its treatment. So you can't push an argument based on circumstantial and unfounded evidence, especially in a case where the base of the opposing view has a much stronger point and support to stand on.

 

[SchAlternate]

JESUS H. CHRIST THAT'S HUGE!

You've got WAY too much free time, man. WAY too much.

 

[Chandeelure]

Wow,people in Miiverse really wants Shadow...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wow,people in Miiverse really wants Shadow...

Let's add him then because the character is popular among the casual crowd and that's the only important factor.

 

[Lasifer]

Wait, wait, wait.

Someone thinks Ness AND Lucas will be cut?

 

[Bajef8]

Sakurai has been quoted as saying, "if Melee was for hardcore gamers, then Brawl was for casual gamers."
Sakurai has been quoted as saying, "We are aiming for Intermediate gamers" in the context of Smash 4.
Satoru Iwata has been quoted as saying that the Wii U specifically is meants to cater towards intermediate gamers.

Actions speak louder than words, but he never said melee catered to "core/intermediate" He did say that "if Melee was hardcore, Brawl was casual." He has never mentioned the "core" before. Given the context that Iwata is also talking about Wii U targeting Intermediate/Core gamers, I'm willing to bet his quote carries meaning.

And focusing on one group does not mean "only pays attention to that single group." Focusing means that attention is dedicated to that group, but attention may be diverted elsewhere. Them diverting some attention to appease Hardcore gamers who hated tripping does not automatically derail that they would be focusing on intermediate/core gamers.

Focusing never means forgetting anyone else, it just means "more attention than others." The scale of which can very from slight to massive.

You're completely missing the point. Sakurai's intentions for both Melee and 64 were not trying to acclimate a certain player group or base into Smash. Even your own quotes disproofs you. He said IF Melee was for hardcore gamers. IF. He isn't saying it was, he's saying if, because it was a game that turned hardcore from gameplay exploitation.

Brawl was the only game in the series that he intended to be dedicated to a player base IE casuals more than the core and hardcore demographics. His actions being the fact that the game IS slower and easier.

Brawl is the only game in the series where he "focused" on one player group. And he clearly did that to expand the player base of Smash. Now that he accomplished that goal, he can go back to what he was doing. Taking feedback from advanced players, making sure he can appeal to each of the main gaming demographics, etc....

EDIT: Also you completely ignored the fact that I entirely disproved your argument w/ the Kotaku article where he even states he takes most into consideration the advanced players vocal thoughts and opinions.

 

[EddyBearr]

You've got WAY too much free time, man. WAY too much.

Sadly, I don't. I really shouldn't have posted on there as much as I did. Lost 7 hours or so, 7 hours that I really, really needed.. fml.

 

[SchAlternate]

Sadly, I don't. I really shouldn't have posted on there as much as I did. Lost 7 hours or so, 7 hours that I really, really needed.. fml.

You spent 7 hours on a single post? Jesus. That takes dedication.

 

[Pacack]

Just so you guys know, after ignoring all the people who derail this thread, I've had a much better life.

Maybe you should do it, too. That way, we'll have reasonable discussion.

 

[Arcanir]

But derailing the thread is so much fun...

Sorry about that, to steer the thread to better endeavors, what Pokeball Pokémon do you want to see return?

 

[Bajef8]

Just so you guys know, after ignoring all the people who derail this thread, I've had a much better life.

Maybe you should do it, too. That way, we'll have reasonable discussion.

This thread is a bottomless hole of endless, pointless discussion that seemingly sucks away my insanity every second....and yet, I can't seem to leave.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow,people in Miiverse really wants Shadow...

That's surprising.....why?
Shadow's been a common request since even before Sonic was revealed in Brawl for whatever reason.

In other news, Pikachu is going to be in Smash Bros.

 

[SchAlternate]

But derailing the thread is so much fun...

Sorry about that, to steer the thread to better endeavors, what Pokeball Pokémon do you want to see return?

Hitmonlee.

"HEE-AH-YAHH!! TEY TEY TEY TEY!! *kicks you to the fawking moon*"

 

[Jaedrik]

Sadly, I don't. I really shouldn't have posted on there as much as I did. Lost 7 hours or so, 7 hours that I really, really needed.. fml.

We all make those mistakes, abusing the great gift of time.

 

[Johnknight1]

>______________> Here I am, I don't exist

I thought you only really played Brawl, lulzs.

Earthbound has actually been doing pretty damn well on the VC, it outdid pretty much every other VC game that wasn't on sale for quite some time in a lot of countries. They've probably already made a good profit off of it. Sure wouldn't hurt to reveal Ness for Smash Bros to make the sales skyrocket once more though.

And thus we get another side of marketing.

Also, a Virtual Console release of MOTHER 3 would get a ton of increased sales/notoriety with Lucas being confirmed.

Thanks.I never felt it had to be Dixie vs K. Rool, seeing as Dixie and especially K.Rool have high chances of being in anyways.

Agreed. I see K. Rool as all but guaranteed, while Dixie Kong is IMO a bit under 50/50.

Dixie could easily be Smash 4's Wolf (late-ish add kinda sorta but not really), albeit I see her specials being more unique.

And as for Ike, well, "recency" was never anything but a lame reason for him not being in Smash 4.

Especially since he was in Fire Emblem: Awakening, he's one of the only 2 Fire Emblem characters to star in 2 or more games (the other obviously being Marth), and he's one of the most popular Brawl characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

In other news, Pikachu is going to be in Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

What's next, you're going to tell me Mario isn't going to be in Smash either?

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Just so you guys know, after ignoring all the people who derail this thread, I've had a much better life.

Maybe you should do it, too. That way, we'll have reasonable discussion.

Ok then that means I should ignore everyone on here because this thread/forum never has anything like that, just pointless arguing and random posts.

In all seriousness I'd like to see scizor return as a pokeball, I also have a hunch that maybe the pokeball pokemon will get mega evolution? like maybe scizor will be mega scizor and stuff like that.

 

[Chandeelure]

Hitmonlee.

"HEE-AH-YAHH!! TEY TEY TEY!!"

You forgot one "TEY".

 

[Arcanir]

What's next, you're going to tell me Mario isn't going to be in Smash either?

Dude, he totally isn't. That's a Dr. Mario recolor.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What's next, you're going to tell me Mario isn't going to be in Smash either?

 

[SchAlternate]

You forgot one "TEY".

Fix'd.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

But derailing the thread is so much fun...

Sorry about that, to steer the thread to better endeavors, what Pokeball Pokémon do you want to see return?

We gotta have Wobbuffet, Snorlax and Mew again. They're Smash classics.

I'd like all the Legendaries to return, including the two birds that only showed up in Melee. I'd like most Poke Ball Pokemon to return actually, but among the prievously mentioned I want to see Togepi, Chikorita, Staryu and Weavile again.

 

[Johnknight1]

What's next, you're going to tell me Mario isn't going to be in Smash either?

He's too old. Let's add a newer and more relevant Super Mario character like Toadette.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

In other news, Pikachu is going to be in Smash Bros.

NO WAI, HE'S SO IRRELEVANT AND NOT-RECENT, DEDENEE IS MORE RECENT RELEVANT AND MUH FAIRY TYPE!

 

[FinalStarmen]

I do appreciate taking the time for the lengthy response, I really do. Yet, I feel it is in vain, as you only seem interested in maintaining the same talking-points and victimized personality previously established beforehand. Nothing I say at this point will convince you otherwise.

Gods... you've truly wasted your time (all 7+ hours or so, that you'll never see returned to you), and perhaps everybody else's, with this victim-playing "everybody-is-against-me" approach and rambling "competitive/casual fan-base" nonsense. I've lost all my considerate patience with this, and despite my kindness and everybody else's, you take it up to yourself to blame everybody for "bringing me down" (as if we are all some authoritative and totalitarian entity against the proletariat) just because of simple civil disagreements against your baseless assertions.



I must apologize, but it has become painfully obvious we are only going to be tediously wasting our energy talking past each other, considering none of us will remove our absolute resolve. Basically, the crux of your emotional argumentation goes like this:
- Make a faulty claim that often misinterprets factual statements ("Sakurai ignores feedback from top-level competitors" because Sakurai apparently said so), then attempt to conversationally argue this with arbitrarily-created distinctions between requests ("casuals" and "competitive" are seemingly forever-divided). As long as, of course, the quote can always be misinterpreted as something of an anti-competitive stance, where such voices are silenced in favor of only the casual market (or the majority).
- You also insist that "all potential customer's input" matters, yet go on to declare the " hardcore competitive" desires as worthlessly useless, or close enough where it makes no difference.
- When presented with numerously multiple counter-arguments refuting these logically-lacking notions (Sakurai listens to all popular character requests and then uses his criteria to decide character inclusions, regardless of this supposed "divide" between "casual" and "competitive" interests you keep asserting), you claim they misunderstand your points, consistently insisting it's not what you say, but rather Sakurai.
- You then continue to make these long-since-refuted claims over and over again, no matter how continually often everybody corrects your interpretation of a Sakurai-inspired quote, you insist your variation is the be-all-to-end-all interpretation.
- Occasionally, make strangely wild accusations that there is a wide-ranging conspiracy against you, in that rather than having a particular interest in ""honest discussions" or "discussing evaluation systems" (...and yet you criticize me for fancy words?), we are all apparently out to get you, like a boogeyman monster. This isn't a popularity contest to see who gets the most "likes", this is a speculation message board where we can share our ideas, and comment/praise/criticize. Blaming myself for your disagreements almost borders on attention-seeking.
- After all is said and done, you remind everybody all of this is just simply a non-factual subjective opinion system trying to quantify and qualify statements... all while providing your arguments as to why your reasoning is factually correct, and everybody else's are wrong.

I emphatically sympathize with Arcanir and TumblrFamous.



But, in the hope you will, in the very least, take something beneficial away from this experience (and I hope you do), I will provide you with these convenient proclamations:



1. Your sense of humor is far too dry and dense, in that your playfully-joking remarks are almost indiscernible from actual to-the-point statements. You provide almost no context whatsoever within building the foundations to your jokes, nor even strengthen them with acceptable explanations ("fighting for friends", "Toad can't fight"); as a result, such flimsy foundations will only crumble itself into oblivion. Had you actually bothered to do so, then perhaps I would not be confused as to your muddled intentions. An ample example would be this bizarre declaration against my sensibilities:

"The simplest way to put this is: It's unfortunate you didn't get the reference, and that you did not interpret the multiple "S"s as an obvious joke explanation. To be perfectly blunt, I don't really doubt that you caught it's lack of seriousness, I'm sure basically anyone would. I think you just really wanted an excuse to throw the implied ad hominem that I'm not worth being taken seriously. Do you want an honest discussion, or do you simply want to instill as many negative traits unto me as you possible can? I'm being both cynical, and fed-up."

You mean... by adding multiple "S"'s to the end of a sentence, that suddenly dictates a jovial disposition to the statement? Considering the copious amount of individuals who were also unable to compare and contrast your "business-like" statements with your "whimsically-inclined" ones, it's become necessarily self-evident in that you need to prioritize your sense of humor. All in all, I urge you to please demonstrate some clarification into your sentences, because you lack contextual awareness, as I've said beforehand.

Which leads me to the next point:



2. Your self-victimization is not only seemingly an attempt for sympathy, but it is also detracting from seriously-detailed discussions about roster predictions, because it diverts the attention from your 'persuasive' argumentation to yourself. You accuse me of trying to "instill as many negative traits" unto yourself as possible (without even considering yourself as the cause) and displaying "ad-hominem" attacks in guise of concern, all because you seem to think I have some sort of ridiculous plotted scheme against you. If that isn't enough, you then accuse those around me as co-conspirators, as if I am Brutus with the senators trying to stab you repeatedly in the senate hall.

This victim-playing ruse of yours holds no substantial weight to the burden of realistic examination. The majority of posters here are only simply disagreeing with your assessments of Sakurai's criteria for the inclusion of playable characters. Nobody is going to try to put you down, or make you feel inferior/make themselves superior, or try to outcast you from the realms of the populace. Not Arcanir, not TumblrFamous, not Mr.SaturnGamer, not FrostWraith, not anybody, and I can certainly assure you not myself, either. Rather, we are only trying to convince you as to why your argumentation is flawed, such as lacking in explanation (when we ask for verifiable sources, which is a necessity in factual claim-making) or making generalized comparisons (as you do between the core groups of fans). When you make unwarranted assumptions, as you continually do, then it's only necessary for the reactive responses to follow. You're just simply making a statement the majority disagrees with, so what do you expect? Even you admit you are of a minority in terms of opinions, so how is this divine revelation?

I'll say this as concisely and clearly as I can - I am not here to "impress the crowd", because quite frankly I don't care for such popularity (unlike you, considering your obsessive nature over not getting enough "likes"). I don't flaunt the number of "likes" I receive, not at all. Rather, you are only simply sore, even frustrated, over the fact that people simply just don't agree with much of your opinions. So you, instead, egregiously take out such frustrations through your own petty victimization, acting as if I'm a perpetrator of some crime against you. I'm not. Indeed, it seems as though you are only describing yourself, as wanting the attention that popularity brings in this manner.

You know how it feels when there is seemingly a frustrating lack of understanding in regards to the your argumentation? That is what I feel right now, extensively so.

Which also leads me to:



3. You almost have this pretentious, know-it-all attitude about yourself, and act as if your words are more meaningfully important to Super Smash Brothers than even Sakurai's. Despite your earlier apologetic defense, you do act as if you are more "extensively-knowledgeable" about fan-bases than anybody else is in this forum, all from the limited-amount of information you can gather, because you constantly keep making these assertions and assumptions as if we are kindergarten children to be educated the alphabet, over and over and over again ad infinitum. It gets extremely annoying.

By saying that you'll give me the "benefit of the doubt" and "assume" I'm "intelligent", you are already demonstrating you seriously lack the belief in such (and in others, as well), as your (PG-13 Language) Bull****-Detector disclaimer (which is deliciously ironic) seems to imply you are 1) inclined to use assaulting language when the time arises, 2) resorted to using mocking GIF's to demonstrate your lack of respect, and 3) selectively censoring your true intentions, in that your true sentiments towards me would become much more aggressively confrontational, even argumentative (with swearing abound). Spare me the false courtesies.

Here on Smashboards, one of the ways one can actively calculate a member's contributions is not the number of posts or likes they give and receive (in correlation to discussions), but rather how they present themselves in a manner befitting in a well-informed and advantageously-worthwhile discourse, as well as sharing the respect to others as they themselves should receive it. ChronoBound, Johnknight1, N3ON, Groose, and GoldenYuiitusin are all shining examples of this regard. When I pay my due respects, it's not out of some sycophantic desire for popularity, but rather contributing to the overall discussions. That is all I care about - adding to the essential productivity of discussions. Certainly not the likes, and certainly not the posts. The productivity. Otherwise, you have nothing.

And finally:



4. Brevity would better suit you. Writing long-winded passages at great length will only serve to exhaust the reader's energy. Had you color-coded my actual text into its original color, rather then serving it as a mundane white color, it almost camouflages with your own text and therefor confuses the reader as to which sentences are whose one. Try being more succinct and right-to-the-point.

And before you typically respond at the length of my passages, no, they are not nearly at such a length as yours. At the very least, I can clearly differentiate my text between yours.




Those are my final instructive words to you. If you wish to take it personally, as I know you will (give that you already have), then just take it to PM (only note the moderators will not take so kindly to whatever insults you are perhaps preparing towards me). I'd rather have these discussion threads to remain peacefully-inclined towards civil debates, because we do not get enough of such activities. It is not my intention to disrespect you, but for whatever reason you seem to feel like I am. No actions I can perform, nor any words I can speak, will change the course of your mindset towards this. If it is to be this confrontational and adversarial, then do everybody (including me) a favor and save this for a PM. Or better yet, put me on ignore, considering you take such great offense to me. Don't waste anymore time on this considerably over-long discussion. It has been put to eternal death.

Just so I don't leave the impression I believe myself better than you - I don't. Please do not assume as such only because I simply disagree with you (although more-than-likely you will). I have certainly made many a mistake in my lifetime, and still do make mistakes; I am not, within any sort of manner, conditionally perfect, because I am prone to mistakes as any other. But when one is able to learn from such mistakes, we can better ourselves in this manner, and that is, at least, what I attempt to do. I truly desire the same with you.

And if you are going to prepare some sort of rampaging tirade against me, full of disparaging remarks and disrespectful insults, on this particular thread, then please take caution when doing so, or rather don't do it at all. Simply PM me instead, and I will, as respectfully as I can, respond to your concerns in kind. Let us end this quarrel upon this thread.

 

[Johnknight1]

Wow, I missed a lot of cancer here!

It looks like EddyBearr is SmashChu-esk, given how much he seems to have a distaste for competitive smashers or "hardcore" stuffs.

Also, when did "core" gamers and "hardcore" gamers become opposites, and "core" gamers become more like "casual" gamers. At least with "hardcore" gamers, they share the same "core."

BTW, screw those labels. Those are for lazy people. I prefer to call myself a dedicated gamer. If you saw my game library, you'd know that label is accurate!

Let's add him then because the character is popular among the casual crowd and that's the only important factor.

Oh God, let's not let the casual "I don't know anything about anything" crowd dictate everything.

Or, even worse, let's not let the gameplay be aimed at them, otherwise we get the trash we got in Brawl, like slow and camping-friendly gameplay, lots of terrible timed out matches (and them being a common thing), and, oh yeah, random tripping.

Also, "casual" and "competitive" smashers generally want the same characters fyi. Both crowd were super hardcore for Sonic in Brawl guys.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh God, let's not let the casual "I don't know anything about anything" crowd dictate everything.

But those are the people we're catering to, they know what will sell! We must cater to them otherwise the universe will forget to take out the dogs and they'll piss all over everything!

 

[SchAlternate]

Oh God, let's not let the casual "I don't know anything about anything" crowd dictate everything.

Or, even worse, let's not let the gameplay be aimed at them, otherwise we get the trash we got in Brawl, like slow and camping-friendly gameplay, lots of terrible timed out matches (and them being a common thing), and, oh yeah, random tripping.

Also, "casual" and "competitive" smashers generally want the same characters fyi. Both crowd were super hardcore for Sonic in Brawl guys.

*coughcoughsarcasmcough*

 

[Johnknight1]

But those are the people we're catering to, they know what will sell! We must cater to them otherwise the universe will forget to take out the dogs and they'll piss all over everything!

Clearly that's done wonders for the Wii U sales. It must be selling twice as well as the Wii!!!

 

[Conviction]

My prescription of Smashchu ran out back in 2011, I don't plan on getting refills.

 

[Johnknight1]

I fear Snake is the mostly likely to be cut. When Sakurai was talking about Nintendo not liking third party edition in Brawl, I am pretty sure it was Snake because there were positive comments about Sonic from Nintendo staff members. MGS close relationship with Sony/Playstation is always notable.

I hope Snake doesn't go anywhere but I can see it happening due to their close relationship with Sony. MGS is more notable as a Playstation series than Nintendo series.

Except Nintendo isn't making Smash 4... or Brawl. It's being made by a 3rd party company, and on top of that, Sakurai is minimally under their control. In fact, Sakurai has Nintendo by the balls (especially since the Wii U is selling about as well as fried turds on a hot afternoon), not the other way around.

Also, Nintendo should learn how to make more good home console games before they tell 3rd parties making their IP's what to do.