Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

You should review more rosters FinalStarmen, love the detail in them.

 

[Deleted member]

Clearly he's tsundere for Kirby.

...except he's that way with everyone.
So is Dedede secretly in love with everyone? 0_o

 

[FlareHabanero]

...except he's that way with everyone.
So is Dedede secretly in love with everyone? 0_o

Bowser x Dedede confirmed for canon you heard it here folks.

 

[EddyBearr]

1. He shows more personality than over half of the cast. Most of the fighters just feel like bland heroes that fill that "bland hero niche". R.O.B. feels like a goofy robot in his moveset. And I'm sorry ROB doesn't fill your obsession over "niches", but he does for most, if any of us even care about a "niche".
2. Someone, I don't remember who, found connections between the toy and ROB in Smash. You could turn the hand, if I remember, which is his Side B. His Neutral B, the laser, references him being "charged", where a fully charged ROB toy would emit a flashing red dot on its head.
3. CASUAL SUPPORT IS NOT THE ULTIMATE FACTOR. SAKURAI SAID PLEASING THE COMPETITIVE FIGHTERS THE MOST, COMPLICATIONS HAPPEN. HE HAS NEVER SAID THAT HE WILL COMPLETELY TIP THE SCALES AND FOCUS ON ONE GROUP.
4. The only reason he was harshly received was because he was the last slot, and people were pissed their precious Ridley or Geno or Megaman or Krystal did not get in. They viewed him as an obstacle that got in the way of their favorite character. That's why people didn't like him. If the WFT was the last revealed, she would be in the same position as ROB: while filling a different "niche", she was still a surprise WTF character that people did not want, therefore taking, say, K. Rool's or Ridley's slot.
5. He saved Nintendo in the West. Half of the cast wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for him. He fills Nintendo's History better than most of the characters on these rosters.
5.5. Please get a source in how this is the "cutting" process. No, they will not keep ROB because he saved Nintendo. They will most likely keep him because he got in fairly, on his own merits, is a unique character, and deserves to be on there more than most of this cast.
6. ROB became a fan favorite as well, even if he does have some haters, though Game and Watch does as well. Game and Watch wasn't as hated mainly because there was never that much speculation going on back then. By Brawl, speculation was running rampant, and the rest that followed can be found in #4.
7. Obviously, he felt real enough for Sakurai to put him on there in the first place. He feels better than the likes of Snake in Brawl, and people think he's returning. ROB felt right enough for Sakurai at that time, he will most likely feel right again.

1. I never said anything about R.O.B. and niches. Indeed, R.O.B. is totally unique, there is nothing like him. The sarcastic "obsession with 'niches'" tone implies more of an intent to insult than anything else. Simultaneously, R.O.B. might show more personality in some moves, based on some interpretations, than other characters, but hte schema with which he is associated, a "robot," will never carry as much inherent personality as the schema's of a "hero of time," a princess, or any other known-to-be-sentient-and-individualistic being.
2. I remember that post, but that's not anything like that. That's an open-ended basic ability to move, and a unique interpretation of lights. This is, again, more just improvisation "because he's a robot."
3. I'd think that the people who outnumber non-casuals 500+ to 1 are the "ultimate factor." He said very clearly that he is focusing on intermediates. He said very clearly, that he "mostly does not" pay attention to competitive. This is both little for us, and a focus, aka "a lot," on a form of casual. Typing in all caps and getting emotional won't change what Sakurai explicitly said. How else are you going to possibly interpret that quote? "I'm going to treat every subgroup evenly," even though he very clearly mentioned that he's focusing on a subgroup, and mostly ignores a differnet subgroup?
4. That's exactly the point. People want to play as characters they actually want to play as, not as a random piece of relatively arbitrary history (when it comes to trying to sell a game.)
5. What does that have to do with selling a game in today's society? We're not trying to market to highly educated video-game-history types, we're trying to sell a party game to Nintendo families.
5.5. It's terribly intuitive, but if you want citations on how corporations put money above all else. Above human well-being, above morality, above sentiment for historical value, and above prety much everything. I can give you as many as you want. It's called the "bottom line." It's called, "get as much return on investment as possible" and it happens with capitalism. Above all, Nintendo is a corporation, and their goal is to maximize profits. 1. 2. 3.6. That's unfortunate for R.O.B., but that's the way the cookie crumbles. And again, I'm sorry for using anecdotal evidence (it's all I have, and so it's how I came to my predictions. If I wanna make a prediction, I pretty much have to.) , but the only R.O.B. love I've found was from passionate folks who care about historical importance (and robot lovers,) which is a minority compared to those who hated R.O.B. because he, in their eyes, wasted a slot that could have been used for a character they'd imagined playing as. Again, this is the entire point: Nintendo could end up with better reception, more sales, and more devout customers by catering to the vast majority of people who would rather see Bowser Jr. or etc. than R.O.B.
7. Yeah, no doubt about that, but I do think he's a likely cut. I don't think "He got in once" is necessarily solid evidence of him getting in again. This wasn't the case for Roy.

Personality? Seriously? If personality mattered we wouldn't have Mr. G&W. Personality can help make some characters more popular choices among some Smash fans, but personality does not get in the way of moveset. If a character was full of personality that appealed to fans but didn't have potential, said character most likely wouldn't be getting in. On a partial contrary ROB had little potential and didn't really have a personality, but he got in anyways with a fine moveset, and could use some abilities unrelated to ROB's games. It's an improvision, but at least at some point, had enough importance and potential to warrant him a slot.

I can't argue every point here, but I'll try what I can.

You're telling me that a character, an obvious humanoid / sentient being mind you, who throws sausage at enemies, bounces on trampolines, and uses random items to damage you doesn't come off was "What a silly guy," or "He makes what he has works! Clever," or any other thing like that? Game & Watch's taunt has so much personality in it as well. Yes, R.O.B. has personality, but it doesn't translate well into "relateability" for "roleplaying as that character." Why? It's much harder to relate to a desk fan, a computer, or a toy robot. There's just no sentience associated with it. It usually takes some serious development to relate to a robot (EX: Wall-E [best movie ever.])

Personality? Seriously? If personality mattered we wouldn't have Mr. G&W. Personality can help make some characters more popular choices among some Smash fans, but personality does not get in the way of moveset. If a character was full of personality that appealed to fans but didn't have potential, said character most likely wouldn't be getting in. On a partial contrary ROB had little potential and didn't really have a personality, but he got in anyways with a fine moveset, and could use some abilities unrelated to ROB's games. It's an improvision, but at least at some point, had enough importance and potential to warrant him a slot.
I can't argue every point here, but I'll try what I can.

I am tired of people using personality as a criteria... personality is not one of Sakurai's criteria.

And characters like Mario, Link, and Marth. They're just heroes.
Not going to lie, when I pick a character, I choose one who is viable and who has personality. Its why I enjoy those characters. I like Toon Link, Luigi, Peach, King Dedede, and Wario. Their personalities are not something sakurai looks at, but its something I like in characters.

This.
Just this.
I'm about as sick of this as I am the infamous "Ridley is too big" argument.

If personality were a criteria, it would rule out virtually every potential non-villain newcomer.
...now that I think about it, let's start a petition to make personality a criteria. Sakurai is sure to listen, like he did to the Geno petition, and the Skull Kid one, and the Reggie one, and DivineDeity's Ridley one, right? Right??

Their personalities are not something sakurai looks at, but its something I like in characters.

**Citation needed for personality absolutely not being a possible variable. If you can give me a link of Sakurai or a developer saying, "we don't look at personality," then I will never use the personality argument again. Until then, I guess I should say sorry for trying to take into account that a certain aspect could be a factor when coming to conclusions.
People are always saying, "X is not a factor, Y is not a factor," but isn't it more intuitive to say that everything is a factor (obviously some outweighing others.)

It is only a criteria when deciding a moveset, IMO. Like how Luigi's moveset portrays him as some cowardly idiot, Toon Link is a sporadic, almost confused kid, and Dedede is stupid.
I think it is probably a criteria, but only a very small one. Having "no personality" will not automatically deconfirm a character.

I tend to think of Sakurai's apparent love for a "younger link" being partially influenced by the "boy hero" schema, and the associated personality traits and relate ability that goes along with it. That even a little boy, if he's brave and determined, can be a true hero. There's just so many factors to look at, factors that can very much mean very real things, that it's not that far-fetched to see why Sakurai gets so stressed when weighing character options.

DOES NOT apply to everyone. Ridley has hardly shown much of personality in the Metroid games, and personality is not what would get people to want to play the game. He is a fire breathing power house of an evil space dragon, does such a thing need to show much personality for people to want to play as him?

Does not have to apply to everyone, but if a character is able to utilize that factor, then it's a benefit to them. If a character is unable to use it, then it does hurt them. I don't think it has that much of an influence, but it was only one of several reasons why I expect R.O.B. to go.

Ridley wouldn't need it, no, to get people to want to play as him, but his lack of personality does hurt him (by an iota of an iota, mind you, so basically negligible.)

Well, I was just saying, based on Eddy's criteria, they would fit that "bland hero" biochemical. I don't think they're bland, I was just using it as an example to defend my argument.

EDIT: Niche. I meant niche. Biochemical?

Their realized niches do interlap on the "hero" niche (Mario is anything but bland. Falling asleep when he's supposed to save peach in SM64. What a lazy bum.) Thankfully, it seems pretty obvious that the "hero niche" is "the trophic level that can keep on providing nutrients to sustain the organisms in said niche." Lol.

I just found it weird. I was the first person to say it, I got no "likes", 2 or 3 proceeded to say the exact same thing I said. They got "likes". I don't really care about likes. Which is why I give them out for free. However, when you say something and people say the exact same thing and get credit for saying it... it is slightly annoying.

Correction: I was the first person to say that personality is a factor that can matter (I made no allusions to it's significance.) People criticized it hardcore, flat out saying "no it's not." Once a few people starting mentioning it, everyone who criticized me for it starting saying "it can matter," then fighting over who came up with it.

Now THAT is quite annoying.
@FinalStarmen: I'll reply to your post in it's own post, cause I have a feeling it's gonna be a long one.

 

[Hotfeet444]

the comment above mine...what in the name of Great Lord Arceus did I just read?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's a random question, would you want Reggie Fils-Aime as a playable DLC character?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a random question, would you want Reggie Fils-Aime as a playable DLC character?

 

[FinalStarmen]

Here's a random question, would you want Reggie Fils-Aime as a playable DLC character?

If there is to be any sort of downloadable content for playable characters, it should be reserved for either past veterans who were previously cut (Dr. Mario, for example), or characters who couldn't make it in the game because of time-constraints (like Mewtwo in Super Smash Brothers Brawl, for another example) - not joke characters like Reggie that would only serve as shock value. I recognize his fan-base's support, yet I would rather see the first two examples (characters who were either cut or didn't make it) make it in beforehand.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Here's a random question, would you want Reggie Fils-Aime as a playable DLC character?

 

[Morbi]

1. I never said anything about R.O.B. and niches. Indeed, R.O.B. is totally unique, there is nothing like him. The sarcastic "obsession with 'niches'" tone implies more of an intent to insult than anything else. Simultaneously, R.O.B. might show more personality in some moves, based on some interpretations, than other characters, but hte schema with which he is associated, a "robot," will never carry as much inherent personality as the schema's of a "hero of time," a princess, or any other known-to-be-sentient-and-individualistic being.
2. I remember that post, but that's not anything like that. That's an open-ended basic ability to move, and a unique interpretation of lights. This is, again, more just improvisation "because he's a robot."
3. I'd think that the people who outnumber non-casuals 500+ to 1 are the "ultimate factor." He said very clearly that he is focusing on intermediates. He said very clearly, that he "mostly does not" pay attention to competitive. This is both little for us, and a focus, aka "a lot," on a form of casual. Typing in all caps and getting emotional won't change what Sakurai explicitly said. How else are you going to possibly interpret that quote? "I'm going to treat every subgroup evenly," even though he very clearly mentioned that he's focusing on a subgroup, and mostly ignores a differnet subgroup?
4. That's exactly the point. People want to play as characters they actually want to play as, not as a random piece of relatively arbitrary history (when it comes to trying to sell a game.)
5. What does that have to do with selling a game in today's society? We're not trying to market to highly educated video-game-history types, we're trying to sell a party game to Nintendo families.
5.5. It's terribly intuitive, but if you want citations on how corporations put money above all else. Above human well-being, above morality, above sentiment for historical value, and above prety much everything. I can give you as many as you want. It's called the "bottom line." It's called, "get as much return on investment as possible" and it happens with capitalism. Above all, Nintendo is a corporation, and their goal is to maximize profits. 1. 2. 3.6. That's unfortunate for R.O.B., but that's the way the cookie crumbles. And again, I'm sorry for using anecdotal evidence (it's all I have, and so it's how I came to my predictions. If I wanna make a prediction, I pretty much have to.) , but the only R.O.B. love I've found was from passionate folks who care about historical importance (and robot lovers,) which is a minority compared to those who hated R.O.B. because he, in their eyes, wasted a slot that could have been used for a character they'd imagined playing as. Again, this is the entire point: Nintendo could end up with better reception, more sales, and more devout customers by catering to the vast majority of people who would rather see Bowser Jr. or etc. than R.O.B.
7. Yeah, no doubt about that, but I do think he's a likely cut. I don't think "He got in once" is necessarily solid evidence of him getting in again. This wasn't the case for Roy.


You're telling me that a character, an obvious humanoid / sentient being mind you, who throws sausage at enemies, bounces on trampolines, and uses random items to damage you doesn't come off was "What a silly guy," or "He makes what he has works! Clever," or any other thing like that? Game & Watch's taunt has so much personality in it as well. Yes, R.O.B. has personality, but it doesn't translate well into "relateability" for "roleplaying as that character." Why? It's much harder to relate to a desk fan, a computer, or a toy robot. There's just no sentience associated with it. It usually takes some serious development to relate to a robot (EX: Wall-E [best movie ever.])







**Citation needed for personality absolutely not being a possible variable. If you can give me a link of Sakurai or a developer saying, "we don't look at personality," then I will never use the personality argument again. Until then, I guess I should say sorry for trying to take into account that a certain aspect could be a factor when coming to conclusions.
People are always saying, "X is not a factor, Y is not a factor," but isn't it more intuitive to say that everything is a factor (obviously some outweighing others.)


I tend to think of Sakurai's apparent love for a "younger link" being partially influenced by the "boy hero" schema, and the associated personality traits and relate ability that goes along with it. That even a little boy, if he's brave and determined, can be a true hero. There's just so many factors to look at, factors that can very much mean very real things, that it's not that far-fetched to see why Sakurai gets so stressed when weighing character options.


Does not have to apply to everyone, but if a character is able to utilize that factor, then it's a benefit to them. If a character is unable to use it, then it does hurt them. I don't think it has that much of an influence, but it was only one of several reasons why I expect R.O.B. to go.

Ridley wouldn't need it, no, to get people to want to play as him, but his lack of personality does hurt him (by an iota of an iota, mind you, so basically negligible.)


Their realized niches do interlap on the "hero" niche (Mario is anything but bland. Falling asleep when he's supposed to save peach in SM64. What a lazy bum.) Thankfully, it seems pretty obvious that the "hero niche" is "the trophic level that can keep on providing nutrients to sustain the organisms in said niche." Lol.



Correction: I was the first person to say that personality is a factor that can matter (I made no allusions to it's significance.) People criticized it hardcore, flat out saying "no it's not." Once a few people starting mentioning it, everyone who criticized me for it starting saying "it can matter," then fighting over who came up with it.

Now THAT is quite annoying.
@FinalStarmen: I'll reply to your post in it's own post, cause I have a feeling it's gonna be a long one.

I was the first to allude to its significance. You already know what I meant.

 

[SchAlternate]

...except he's that way with everyone.
So is Dedede secretly in love with everyone? 0_o

I thought he was a narcissist, not the polar opposite of one...

 

[volbound1700]

We need a FE mage or FE spear/axe user IMO. No more sword users. Give me Micaiah.

 

[Frostwraith]

Is it just me or every time I check this thread, I get the feeling it's getting more ******** as time passes?

I have this uncanny feeling for some reason... I'd like to know what could be the cause.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Sakurai. He said that he will not favor mostly competitive players. That does not mean he will focus mainly on casuals, no matter how much of the majority they are. He's going for an in-between. And anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong, they are both together the ultimate factor.

Please, people, am I missing what he is saying about casuals?

Everything he said.

I have found two spirit animals today...

It seems my newfound discovery warrants a double-post...

 

[Morbi]

Sakurai. He said that he will not favor mostly competitive players. That does not mean he will focus mainly on casuals, no matter how much of the majority they are. He's going for an in-between. And anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong, they are both together the ultimate factor.

Please, people, am I missing what he is saying about casuals?

I don't know, I might be missing it too. I agree with your sentiment. He was just trying to convey that competitive players were not a priority, perhaps he was just alluding to the notion that the focus is not going to be inherently honed on the competitive nature of fighting games like many other titles (as a way of differentiating the game). I most certainly did not interpret that quote as he is going to favor one player base over another. I actually perceived the opposite.

There will be components of the game that cater to competitive players, and there will be portions of the title that are more significant to the casual base. That is how it has always been...

 

[Deleted member]

Reggie as DLC? Sure.
People that don't want him can just not get him.

 

[Louie G.]

So, are we arguing about Eddy's roster still?
I predicted more anger over Ness being cut. Huh.
Anyway, I think Ness is one of those characters that make Smash Bros what it is. Imagine if Lucas replaced Ness in Melee. Ugh.
If Ness was cut, I would legitimately reconsider buying this game.

Spoiler

Although in the end I would buy it anyway.

 

[Morbi]

So, are we arguing about Eddy's roster still?
I predicted more anger over Ness being cut. Huh.
Anyway, I think Ness is one of those characters that make Smash Bros what it is. Imagine if Lucas replaced Ness in Melee. Ugh.
If Ness was cut, I would legitimately reconsider buying this game.

Spoiler

Although in the end I would buy it anyway.

Same thing with Captain Falcon. They are pretty much on the same level, well actually Sakurai views Mother as more important. So Captain Falcon will be getting cut WAY before he even considers cutting Ness.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ness is my main in Brawl and Melee, there's this heart breaking feeling I will have if Ness does not make it.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I don't know, I might be missing it too. I agree with your sentiment. He was just trying to convey that competitive players were not a priority, perhaps he was just alluding to the notion that the focus is not going to be inherently honed on the competitive nature of fighting games like many other titles (as a way of differentiating the game). I most certainly did not interpret that quote as he is going to favor one player base over another. I actually perceived the opposite.

There will be components of the game that cater to competitive players, and there will be portions of the title that are more significant to the casual base. That is how it has always been...

Right? I mean, he wouldn't tip the scales in favor of one audience, right? It'd be an insult to either audience... it's all about moderation, in anything in life.

 

[volbound1700]

Ness isn't going anywhere. Captain Falcon, Ness, Yoshi, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Mr. Game and Watch are pretty much locks to get in it. Ice Climbers, Falco, ROB, and Jigglypuff are close to locks.

 

[Morbi]

Ness is my main in Brawl and Melee, there's this heart breaking feeling I will have if Ness does not make it.

I know how you feel. If Jigglypuff got cut, I would be devastated. I don't necessarily think it will happen; however, there is always the possibility. That is the reason Sora Ltd. is attempting to ensure minimal cuts. I have faith that they will not have to cut a significant portion of the roster. I am speculating 1 or 2 cuts (hopefully circumstantial like not licensing Snake or determining that Pacman doesn't fit in the Smash universe).

 

[FlareHabanero]

For some reason people have wanted Ness gone ever since his debut dating all the way back in 1999. In fact, I'm getting flashbacks to pre-Brawl where a lot of people wanted half of the roster gone, including the proposition of scrapping Marth, Roy, Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo etc.

 

[Chandeelure]

Is it just me or every time I check this thread, I get the feeling it's getting more ******** as time passes?

I have this uncanny feeling for some reason... I'd like to know what could be the cause.

Potato.

 

[volbound1700]

I fear Snake is the mostly likely to be cut. When Sakurai was talking about Nintendo not liking third party edition in Brawl, I am pretty sure it was Snake because there were positive comments about Sonic from Nintendo staff members. MGS close relationship with Sony/Playstation is always notable.

I hope Snake doesn't go anywhere but I can see it happening due to their close relationship with Sony. MGS is more notable as a Playstation series than Nintendo series.

 

[Silverjay323]

So, are we arguing about Eddy's roster still?
I predicted more anger over Ness being cut. Huh.
Anyway, I think Ness is one of those characters that make Smash Bros what it is. Imagine if Lucas replaced Ness in Melee. Ugh.
If Ness was cut, I would legitimately reconsider buying this game.

Spoiler

Although in the end I would buy it anyway.

The only reason Lucas was likely to replace Ness at the time is due to the fact that mother was ongoing at the time and was likely considered in the same regard as Fire Emblem, an ongoing RPG that will vary in protagonists over the decades. However, when the series was confirmed to not continue, that made the appearance of each protagonist even more iconic, warranting the inclusion of both Lucas and Ness in Brawl. At least that's how I see it.

 

[shrooby]

For some reason people have wanted Ness gone ever since his debut dating all the way back in 1999. In fact, I'm getting flashbacks to pre-Brawl where a lot of people wanted half of the roster gone, including the proposition of scrapping Marth, Roy, Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo etc.

Well if you say that almost everyone will be cut, then you're bound to get some right.
And it really worked...

 

[SchAlternate]

Potato.

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAID?

 

[Louie G.]

I see a few Mother fans here, so I'm not going to bring up how I don't like Lucas.
Oh, whoops.

Spoiler

I am an Earthbound fan, as it is the only Mother game I've played so far. I'm sure I'd love the other two though.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well if you say that almost everyone will be cut, then you're bound to get some right.
And it really worked...

Funnily it was for very weak arguments, like these characters are weak or irrelevant or they replaced a spot for a crappy worthy character or is a clone.

 

[Richard 89]

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAID?

ato, lol.

 

[Arcanir]

And again, in a game with millions of potential customers, those "really selfish," or more properly, the "really unhyped" people who'd do that start to add up. 0.1% chance of a person being like that, when your number is 10 million, ends up being 10,000. That probably amounts to 1.5-2mil+ in sales (Smash itself, wii us, 3ds, smash for 3ds, controllers, cables, etc. These "rare, selfish people" result in big numbers if we're working with big numbers.

Ignoring that the number of people who would do that are much smaller then that, you're never going to win with those type of people. If they want something specific and they leave because they don't get it, then they're not worth it. Also, you'll be rolling in the 10 million you get anyway, which is still a large chunk of money you're getting back.

Personal roster predictions are made by the person. It includes, where definitive evidence lacks, a need to utilize one's own subjective system of valuation to determine what is or isn't likely, unless they want to end up with a predicted roster that only consists of confirmed characters.
No where did I say it was fact. I made it pretty clear that it's what I expect.

Except you've given no adaquate reason for his exclusion other then "I don't like him." At least with most rosters, people gives some less subjective reasoning for exclusions, you haven't.

Mr G&W, R.O.B., Pit, and IC's were all understood as added by the developor's because they wanted 'historical" and "retro" choices. The big difference between Pit, IC's, and MR G&W, vs R.O.B., was reception.R.O.B. received a terrible reception, at first, which is the time that actually matters.

Still doesn't change my point. Also, the FE characters, Ness/Lucas, etc.

So is every other newcomer. It does not change the huge difference in feeling between fighting a gigantic Ridley, and playing a small one, from one game to the next. This is nothing like Charizard. Alongside that, Charizard didn't break new ground by being the first Pokemon to be playable, but Ridley would break new ground (in the casual's eye) by being the first "Smash boss" to be playable. Tabuu, Master Hand, Petey Piranha, and Ridley are all fitting into the schema of "Smash Bro's boss." Only Metroid fans, an audience that is often older and less interested in Nintendo Party games, would take special note of Ridley.
And though smash is technically a fighting game, it is more properly associated with other Nintendo Party games. Fighting games are all about testing serious skill for serious players, but Smash is far more about playing with your friends and family, seeing who gets the pokeball that just spawned, and chasing smash balls. It is far more fruitful to compare SSB4 to Mario Party 4, in terms of what kind of content and emphasis to expect.
As for hte size argument, I don't preach it in the normal sense. Any character, or even any enemy (Bulborb in Brawl) can be re sized, but a character that is already fixed in the minds of the consumer base showing up radically different for no apparent reason is just going to be

So basically your point is just "Too big" under another name, just with "the customers would be confused!" added to it. Not even bothering.

Also, you're aware that Petey Piranha changed sizes when he was playable in spinoff titles, right?

Where did I say that hardcores should be, or will be, completely ignored? Indeed, I said the input of ALL potential customers matters, including hardcore gamers. I also said that the hardcore gamers get a handicap, because they tend to be picky. The link very explicitly says, "Mostly I don't incorporate [hardcore gamer input.]" It does not say "entirely" and I never suggested it said "entirely." What I said is that they have far, far, far more influence than us, because there are far, far, far more than us. It sucks to know how insignificant one's self is, but that's kinda how it is. We really don't do much for this Nintendo Party Game's sales. Hardcore gamers were heavily disappointed in Brawl, and many of us didn't buy it because of that. But what happened with Brawl? It had wayyyyy more sales than Melee. We are not the target audience (we are a fringe audience,) and to be honest, we shouldn't be the target audience. That's just a bad business strategy.

And yet with all that "influence," the roster remains balanced towards both groups, you're overrating their influence yet again. Also, as Bkupa put it, there's no "casual" or "hardcore" characters, it's just a wall you're trying to put up to prove your already faulty point. Characters are characters, Sakurai doesn't appeal to one group or the other when picking them out, so why are you so adamant in proving this when it's never fit the situation beforehand?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So are we discussing an actually good topic, or is it the norm.

 

[FlareHabanero]

ato, lol.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Why did I find that funny...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

So are we discussing an actually good topic, or is it the norm.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I see a few Mother fans here, so I'm not going to bring up how I don't like Lucas.
Oh, whoops.

Spoiler

I am an Earthbound fan, as it is the only Mother game I've played so far. I'm sure I'd love the other two though.

WHAT?!

Mother 3 is the only Earthbound game I've played, and I loved it. I would have never picked it up if it wasn't for how interesting a character Lucas was, story mode-wise and personality-wise.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why did I find that funny...

Because Pit is the residential butt monkey and any torture that happens to him is funny.

 

[Louie G.]

WHAT?!

Mother 3 is the only Earthbound game I've played, and I loved it. I would have never picked it up if it wasn't for how interesting a character Lucas was, story mode-wise and personality-wise.

I don't like Lucas in SMASH.
I'm fine with him in his own game.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I don't like Lucas in SMASH.
I'm fine with him in his own game.

Again. WHAT?!