Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[3Bismyname]

was jon talbain really wanted bad? I know megaman x was the most requested capcom character for umvc3 i believe.

he was wanted on and off but overall not the most requested. dwarfed by X (or really any iteration of Megaman) and Strider and Pheonix Wright, who did get in the Ultimate edition at least. i even remember seeing a lot of support for Vile

 

[Banjodorf]

Hey guys! Let's not be so cynical about the chances of amazing characters for a series that has no better options. (Masked Man)

If Mother gets a rep, it'll be him and not Porky. But it probably won't even happen. We've got DK to rep, Metroid to rep, and other series.

Still, people bein too harsh on Masked Man makes me a sad Banjo

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

If sakurai has learned anything he should have learned fans dont like when you are an indian giver with characters, lucario being taken away would almost assure his popularity to skyrocket for the next game to have him return...

I just want them to change several of lucario's specials an make them fit his type better.

I hope you aren't trying to say that Lucario has to return.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Double standards ftw.

Matthew is a better choice than Isaac because only "hardcore" fans would recognize Isaac, and yet Ninten is popular because "hardcore" Mother fans make fan-art and actually give a **** about him.

Wait, I didn't say you had to be a hardcore fan to recognize Issac.

 

[masterluigi1]

I absolutely do not see Earthbound getting 3 reps and, if they do, it would be ridiculous. Earthbound is a finished series with no plans to reboot it. If we were to get Ninten/Masked Man, I should be to replace Ness/Lucas which I don't see. Assuming they add a third rep, that means it has one more rep over DK, Fire Emblem, two over Metroid, Nd the same as Star Fox despite being not as popular or relevant as those mentioned. A fourth rep would be both ridiculous, over-represented, and even criminal because there are many other deserving characters out there. Oh btw I do support Masked Man but I don't support a 3rd EB rep.

Even though Metroid, as a series is more important than Mother or Star Fox, both Mother and Star Fox have more important characters that fit into smash better

this is why metroid only has two reps, mother has two also, and star fox has 3...this still exemplifies series balance

and in the next game it's not ridiculous to expect the same treatment of character representation

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Wait, I didn't say you had to be a hardcore fan to recognize Issac.

No. You said only hardcore fans would care which one of the two got in. The same could be said when choosing between having a Mother 1 rep or another rep for either Mother 2 or Mother 3. That's where the double standards lie.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

This is an ALTERNATE roster, I'm always up for improvement. I'd like to take suggestions so I can better it.

1. Replace Ninten with Porky.
2. Skull Kid is cool, but he's pretty irrelevant until we get a Majora's Mask remake.
3. Bomberman has very low chances for being a new third-party.
4. Kalos (X&Y) Trainer is interesting, but she should be replaced with N, or Lucario.
5. It seems weird for Eirika to be by herself and not with Ephraim. Replace her with Lucina or Micaiah.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Honestly, I hope Masked Man does make it into Smash Bros. because of how Smash Bros. essentially is the catalyst for the Earthbound series' popularity.

1990's, Earthbound was considered a commercial failure. "What's an Earthbound?" People hardly know what it is.
Come SSB64, where Ness is a playable character. "Wha--Who is this kid?!" Some people take the time to try him out and actually like him. Some of those people take the time to try Earthbound and love it.
Come Melee, where Ness becomes a starting character, gets two of his own stages, and has additional trophies detailing characters from Earthbound. "Hm. This stuff is pretty interesting!" More people take the time to try Earthbound and love it.
Come Brawl, where Lucas is a starting character, gets his own stage, and has both a boss and a level-hazard taken from his game. "Oh wow, there's more than one Earthbound game?" People take the time to try Mother 3, translated entirely by the fans and them alone, and love it.

The link between the two series becomes inseparable. Smash Bros. hooks those interested, Earthbound and Mother 3 cement players into feeling like a part of the fandom. It's a cycle that works excellently. If we get the Masked Man in the next Smash Bros., we only repeat that cycle. People take interest in the Masked Man for being cool and mysterious. People try Mother 3 in a rom and end up falling in love with it, especially after seeing the Masked Man in action. Word spreads about Mother 3, fan interest gets started, ports are made (like Earthbound on the Wii U VC), vocal attention happens, remakes are considered... It entirely does more good than it does bad. So come SSB4 and people see the Masked Man and think "Wait, he's not using PSI in most of his attacks! Maybe I don't know everything about the series!", give Mother 3 a try, and see for themselves why the Earthbound fanbase is one of the most devoted fanbases out there.

Aside from his major role in Mother 3 and his capacity to fight to the same caliber as everyone else in the Smash Bros. cast, his inclusion would bring attention to a series that certainly could use it. And that's why I think he should be added.

Especially over Ninten.

 

[Bajef8]

I've missed a lot it seems...so. For the last time, Toon Link is an important rep for Zelda so he's staying. Doc is definitely not the same thing. Mario in a Dr. suit is not a different incarnation, he's Mario in a Doc suit.

So I'm thinking a 2nd F-Zero is very probable at this point. All the original characters have had an addition to their respective series since Smash began besides Yoshi, Falcon, and Samus. Meaning Ridley and an F-Zero character (most likely Goroh) are long overdue. But Yoshi is really a Mario character anyway, with no other playable and plausible options in his series, so he xan be discounted. Thoughts?

 

[MagnesD3]

I hope you aren't trying to say that Lucario has to return.

He probably has too, otherwise people will be mad and sakurai will just have to add him back again in ssb5 (like he will with mewtwo and roy).

 

[8-peacock-8]

He probably has too, otherwise people will be mad and sakurai will just have to add him back again in ssb5 (like he will with mewtwo and roy).

Or as DLC....derp

 

[MagnesD3]

Or as DLC....derp

that would be faster yes.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

He probably has too, otherwise people will be mad and sakurai will just have to add him back again in ssb5 (like he will with mewtwo and roy).

That's assuming Mewtwo and Roy are being readded. Fan demand isn't all Sakurai considers when making the roster.

I would still make Lucario DLC, too.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Honestly, any character that gets cut out willcould probably be re added as DLC.

EDIT: Let me refrase that. They COULD be potentially re-added.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

You know, we've all discussed the idea of DLC characters before, but I don't think any of us have asked a deeper question of that...

How does one fairly price a character?

Clearly they would include DLC characters in packs on part of how they would be designed with balance in mind (since they have all the time in the world to work on them rather than force them out at a given deadline with the rest of the game). But, how would you price them? How many characters are worth $5, for example? If the game itself costs around $50, what is the right qualifying price for 10 characters? Just how much of the game does one consider a character? So many questions of subjectivity. It's driving me nuts.

This is in the scenario that we're given good DLC, of course. You know, like how Awakening had packs for a modest price that never went double-digits. None of that EA bull****.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

You know, we've all discussed the idea of DLC characters before, but I don't think any of us have asked a deeper question of that...

How does one fairly price a character?

two bucks per character, imo. MvC3 did a bad job by putting DLC characters on the disc, but I agree with how they made each 2 bucks.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'd pay 8 a character if I had too.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

For US Dollars at least, maybe around 2 or 3 bucks. They should be as reasonably affordable as they have to be.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

You know, we've all discussed the idea of DLC characters before, but I don't think any of us have asked a deeper question of that...

How does one fairly price a character?

Clearly they would include DLC characters in packs on part of how they would be designed with balance in mind (since they have all the time in the world to work on them rather than force them out at a given deadline with the rest of the game). But, how would you price them? How many characters are worth $5, for example? If the game itself costs around $50, what is the right qualifying price for 10 characters? Just how much of the game does one consider a character? So many questions of subjectivity. It's driving me nuts.

It should all be evenly priced since there will be fans screaming out "why is "my fav character" cheaper than "some other character"!!! It's not fair!!!!!!"

Even though Metroid, as a series is more important than Mother or Star Fox, both Mother and Star Fox have more important characters that fit into smash better

this is why metroid only has two reps, mother has two also, and star fox has 3...this still exemplifies series balance

and in the next game it's not ridiculous to expect the same treatment of character representation

So basically, if you got characters, fill 'em up? Why expand a finished franchise such as Mother or a over-representated franchise such as StarFox when other franchises, that are relevant, can be expanded/introduced? Such Metroid, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Golden Sun, Xenoblade, Super Punch Out, Advanced Wars, Sin and Punishment, Shin Onigashima, etc etc etc. what I'm trying to say is why bolster a well-representated series when other series have yet to be well-representated or have no representation? "Oh, Metroid only has Samus so let's throw in Ninten!"

The series I've listed are all active or have received attention (f-zero) in some form. Hence why I think pulling characters from there, to fill a roster spot, is much more beneficial than diving into finished/dead series that have been already represented. Unless Mother/EB will receive a reboot or a port, I'll stand by that Mother/Earthbound has already been represented well enough in the Smash Universe.

 

[3Bismyname]

$5 seems to be the standard per character when it comes to fighting games. MK, Injustice,and PSABR run about that while still having deals like say $10 for 2 characters plus a stage or throw in a costume pack on top of a character for $7.99 etc. u could still have things like pre order bonuses, special sales and giveaway codes with the purchase of a game and Nintendo would still come out with a decent profit out of it

 

[TheLastJinjo]

There should be a DLC pack for clone characters like Roy, Raichu, Metal Sonic (Just saying that because I want him).

Who knows maybe they'll make a Melee pack. But, without Young Link.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

How about character bundles for a raised price than one character? More value for a higher price. Also, do you think that alt costumes or recolors are a bit of an invaluble purchase when it comes to fighting games? Your paying for something aesthetic that doesn't enhance the gameplay even if it is something lke Dark Pit or Dr. Mario. I like how in Injustice you get alt costumes with experience.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Who knows maybe they'll make a Melee pack. But, without Young Link.

...why?

Young Link and Toon Link are different beings, and Toon Link's moveset could be changed to fit Wind Waker more. (since he "stole" the cloned moveset from Young Link)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

...why?

Young Link and Toon Link are different beings, and Toon Link's moveset could be changed to fit Wind Waker more.

Yeah, that's another thing:

Who here thinks Toon Link should have his own Moves, from WW or ST?

 

[3Bismyname]

How about character bundles for a raised price than one character? More value for a higher price. Also, do you think that alt costumes or recolors are a bit of an invaluble purchase when it comes to fighting games? Your paying for something aesthetic that doesn't enhance the gameplay even if it is something lke Dark Pit or Dr. Mario. I like how in Injustice you get alt costumes with experience.

but there are still many costumes that require a purchase with that game. yeah all that stuff is just for aesthetics. but its something that people do want and will pay for. and it would be too easy for Nintendo to make. so from a business standpoint it would make sense to make them available. i personally dont buy skins but thats just me

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Yeah, that's another thing:

Who here thinks Toon Link should have his own Moves, from WW or ST?

I can see that as viable, even if it has to go to semi-clone measures. Toon Link uses gadgets that TP/SS Link doesn't. Personally, I just don't like having different versions of a character, but that would at least make it easier to swallow.

but there are still many costumes that require a purchase with that game. yeah all that stuff is just for aesthetics. but its something that people do want and will pay for. and it would be too easy for Nintendo to make. so from a business standpoint it would make sense to make them available. i personally dont buy skins but thats just me

You're right. Certain people are suckers for that stuff. After all, it's not mandatory. I am more funds conservant, but that's just me. I just wish developers would go the route of including them in game though.

But still, character bundles could make more money from a higher price even if it's multiplied from a standard character price.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I can see that as viable, even if it has to go to semi-clone measures. Toon Link uses gadgets that TP/SS Link doesn't. Personally, I just don't like having different versions of a character, but that would at least make it easier to swallow.


You're right. Certain people are suckers for that stuff. After all, it's not mandatory. I am more funds conservant, but that's just me. I just wish developers would go the route of including them in game though.

But still, character bundles could make more money from a higher price even if it's multiplied from a standard character price.

I think having different versions of a character is a GREAT idea. It's cool to have. Unless you overdo t like in Melee

 

[MagnesD3]

Toon link definately needs to be decloned or removed, no middle ground.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I think having different versions of a character is a GREAT idea. It's cool to have. Unless you overdo t like in Melee

It's a pet peevish thing for me. Not to say I can't not get over it. I think having two versions of Link for two games is tiring. Why not Yarn Kirby or Paper Mario?

 

[3Bismyname]

i personally have zero problems with the 2 Links. really the only grip i have is that they have the exact same FS. otherwise im fine with them from a gameplay standpoint and i see the need for having the 2

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I wholeheartedly support Toon Linkreturning but with a WW move set - since WW is being remade for the Wii U. I was ecstatic at Toon Link being in Brawl but disappointed in his move set.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'd honestly prefer the middle ground. Entirely unique Special Moves and Final Smash for Toon Link, but the same standard attacks as in Brawl (with a few tweaks to differentiate him from Link more). In that way, we sooner reach a Luigi to Mario or Fox to Wolf type of comparison. Not semi-clones, just a few similar moves with entirely different playstyles.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

The four most iconic weapons in Zelda shouldn't go anywhere. I would give him weapons that are technically the same kind of weapon, but are either used differently for have different features. For example, give Link the bomb arrow and T. Link Fire and Ice arrows. Give T. Link the Hurricane spin when he fully charges the spin attack. The other weapons are fine as they are.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

By jist, a semi-clone.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

By jist, a semi-clone.

bingo

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

The four most iconic weapons in Zelda shouldn't go anywhere. I would give him weapons that are technically the same kind of weapon, but are either used differently for have different features. For example, give Link the bomb arrow and T. Link Fire and Ice arrows. Give T. Link the Hurricane spin when he fully charges the spin attack. The other weapons are fine as they are.

Who said they would be going anywhere? Link would still be the main Link. He'd have his classic moveset, including the most well known Zelda items. Toon Link should be exactly what he is, the Adult Timeline incarnation of Link. I don't see why he shouldn't have Adult Timeline items to help represent that. Take some items from Wind Waker and the DS Zeldas, and suddenly we have a unique moveset from his predecessor. Deku Leaf, Iron Boots, Skull Hammer, or Grappling Hook. There, we just named the basis of new special moves that reference the side of Zelda he comes from. Is such a change that hard to tolerate?

 

[AEMehr]

Not fixing clones is dumb, make his specials all be different tools from the toon zelda universe and change alot of his normal sword moves except for his trademark stuff or cut him, to me you either fix characters or they should be gone, but since people love characters that have made it to the game im more for fixing them. To leave him be would be extremely lazy and uncreative as a developer.

However it is "a rule" for them to be similar.

He has all of his trademark stuff, except for his rope hook. He is designed to be a clone and he's going to stay a clone unless Sakurai ideal had changed about how to represent the Zelda franchise. Which as of Brawl was:​

The Triforce​

The Timelines​

​

Clones are not broken by any means. The only broken character by far is Meta Knight, but even then that is mostly an opinion.​

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Who said they would be going anywhere? Link would still be the main Link. He'd have his classic moveset, including the most well known Zelda items. Toon Link should be exactly what he is, the Adult Timeline incarnation of Link. I don't see why he shouldn't have Adult Timeline items to help represent that. Take some items from Wind Waker and the DS Zeldas, and suddenly we have a unique moveset from his predecessor. Deku Leaf, Iron Boots, Skull Hammer, or Grappling Hook. There, we just named the basis of new special moves that reference the side of Zelda he comes from. Is such a change that hard to tolerate?

Every Link still uses the four main weapons most often. It would be very strange if Toon Link somehow differed. That's probably why he has the same weapons to begin with. Every incarnation of Link has the same main weapons, and it should be represented as such. Toon Link already plays pretty differently from Link. Add a couple more tweaks to his moveset and you shouldn't have any more clone complaints as he would be used almost completely differently.

 

[MagnesD3]

However it is "a rule" for them to be similar.
He has all of his trademark stuff, except for his rope hook. He is designed to be a clone and he's going to stay a clone unless Sakurai ideal had changed about how to represent the Zelda franchise. Which as of Brawl was:
The Triforce
The Timelines

Clones are not broken by any means. The only broken character by far is Meta Knight, but even then that is mostly an opinion.

Clones arent broken but they are lazy and uncreative, saying that is how he is supposed to be is a cop out, now if they luigfy or wolffy him then he is worthy of staying otherwise its a waste of space.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Clones arent broken but they are lazy and uncreative, saying that is how he is supposed to be is a cop out, now if they luigfy or wolffy him then he is worthy of staying otherwise its a waste of space.

I fail to see how it's a cop out. It's a fact."As a rule, the special moves are the same." (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden11.html)

You call it lazy, Legend of Zelda fans would call it logic. Why take away the most iconic weapons in Zelda just to declone him? It misrepresents the game and to an extent, the series.