Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[AEMehr]

Clones arent broken but they are lazy and uncreative, saying that is how he is supposed to be is a cop out, now if they luigfy or wolffy him then he is worthy of staying otherwise its a waste of space.

But the problem is that it's most likely not going to happen unless it's for balancing reasons.

 

[MagnesD3]

I fail to see how it's a cop out. It's a fact."As a rule, the special moves are the same." (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden11.html)

You call it lazy, Legend of Zelda fans would call it logic. Why take away the most iconic weapons in Zelda just to declone him? It misrepresents the game and to an extent, the series.

Because Link has all those weapons... no need to see them twice when WW link has other tools he could use to make him not just a faster link.

 

[MagnesD3]

But the problem is that it's most likely not going to happen unless it's for balancing reasons.

Im sure there will be some kind of "time restraint" excuse...

 

[AEMehr]

Im sure there will be some kind of "time restraint" excuse...

They've been working on the game for two - three years now without needing to show anything and without a set release date.
It doesn't seem like that will be a thing unless they make the release date this year or something.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Because Link has all those weapons... no need to see them twice when WW link has other tools he could use to make him not just a faster link.

Toon Link's Spin Attack and Boomerang are both already very different from Link's. I'll admit that the bomb was only a statistic change, but three out of four moves could potentially be different from Link's without actually changing the weapons themselves. We can have them stay without Toon Link being a clone aside from the technicalities. They're technically the same weapons, but they work completely differently.

If you're trying to say Sakurai made a bad call, go ahead, but understand that you're opinion isn't a fact and that there are people who agree with him and don't think Toon Link is a waste of space.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Every Link still uses the four main weapons most often. It would be very strange if Toon Link somehow differed. That's probably why he has the same weapons to begin with. Every incarnation of Link has the same main weapons, and it should be represented as such. Toon Link already plays pretty differently from Link. Add a couple more tweaks to his moveset and you shouldn't have any more clone complaints as he would be used almost completely differently.

I fail to see how it would be strange, though that may just be my own view on this. While those are definitely the most well known weapons, you have to consider that in fashion of Zelda, not every situation calls for the same items. Where as one Link may need to cross a gap by hitting a switch from afar, another might need to simply fly across it. Another may need to defeat an enemy to create a path across, or may have to find another around that gap entirely. I mean, can you imagine how different the Queen Gohma fight would play out for the Link from Link's Awakening and the Link from Skyward Sword than it would from Ocarina of Time's Link?

I just see that transitioning to how Links fight in Smash Bros. They're both good with their swords, but the way they handle a situation and the equipment currently available to them could be different and may require different tactics in battle. It just feels second nature to make that comparison for their movesets as well--similar swordplay, but different items brought into battle.

 

[MagnesD3]

Toon Link's Spin Attack and Boomerang are both already very different from Link's. I'll admit that the bomb was only a statistic change, but three out of four moves could potentially be different from Link's without actually changing the weapons themselves. We can have them stay without Toon Link being a clone aside from the technicalities. They're technically the same weapons, but they work completely differently.

If you're trying to say Sakurai made a bad call, go ahead, but understand that you're opinion isn't a fact and that there are people who agree with him and don't think Toon Link is a waste of space.

they are slightly different, but not really, he is a character that needs a ton of work to be worth the price of admission.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

they are slightly different, but not really, he is a character that needs a ton of work to be worth the price of admission.

While I can accept that a bit more work could be done, all I can do is repeat myself: "understand that you're opinion isn't a fact and that there are people who agree with him and don't think Toon Link is a waste of space."

 

[MagnesD3]

While I can accept that a bit more work could be done, all I can do is repeat myself: "understand that you're opinion isn't a fact and that there are people who agree with him and don't think Toon Link is a waste of space."

I understand that people like him but its no excuse not to further making the character unique and interesting.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I understand that people like him but its no excuse not to further making the character unique and interesting.

They can and I have faith they will. I just don't think changing the actual moves is a good idea.

 

[MagnesD3]

They can and I have faith they will. I just don't think changing the actual moves is a good idea.

They probly wont change a thing but it doesnt make it right, sakurai should at least try

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

They probly wont change a thing but it doesnt make it right, sakurai should at least try

You aren't giving him enough credit. Remember how he said he's focusing on the characters we already have?

 

[MagnesD3]

You aren't giving him enough credit. Remember how he said he's focusing on the characters we already have?

Well I just hope he does good, I just want tuesday to come...

 

[AEMehr]

This is an ALTERNATE roster, I'm always up for improvement. I'd like to take suggestions so I can better it.

I'm going to give you my honest opinions on the characters you posted. I won't suggestions if you should replace them or not, just what I personally see.

Bowser Junior: Now Junior isn't my cup of tea, but he's still a very realistic decision. I still don't really think Mario will get another character, but you never know.

Paper Mario: I actually have a question for you here, are you counting Paper Mario as a Super Mario Brothers character as a his own Spin-Off franchise with his own character icon. Because if he does count as a Mario character I highly doubt we'll see two Mario characters, let alone one. I think you should pick either Paper Mario or Bowser Jr.

King K. Rool: No need to really mention anything here, K. Rool is perfectly fine.

Eirika: Eirika isn't really a likely Fire Emblem candidate. Especially over characters like Roy, Anna, and Lyn. Despite the fact that her game was one of the GBA games was part of the 3DS Ambassador thing, nobody is really interested in having her in over other characters.

Chrom: Chrom is the most probable next Fire Emblem character, I have nothing against you there.

Ninten: If anything Ninten is one of the less likely Earthbound characters. He is also the most unlikely character in your roster (In my opinion, anyways). Ninten doesn't offer anything new in terms of representing the MOTHER / Earthbound franchise other than the original one. Which, to be honest, nobody really cares about. If you're really hellbent on representing the original game, go for Giegue (Giygas's original form). But Masked Man and Porky are always good choices too. But a new Earthbound rep doesn't sit right with me and doesn't seem likely or needed at all.

Takamaru: thats good you picked him amen

Sheriff: Eh, I'm okay with seeing the Sheriff. But I think something to represent handhelds would be better (In terms of adding a historical character at least).

Skull Kid: Skull Kid doesn't hold anything to his name if we don't see Majora's Mask 3D, which won't be considered until after the next Zelda title will be released, that being Link to the Past 2 this holiday season.

Starfy: I think he sort of lost his chance in Brawl. There was some sort of suggestion in the game's code that makes it seem that Starfy was going to be playable at one point. Stapy's (Starly in the American game) trophy was located in the Fighter related section, where trophys from related franchises of the playable character would organized into. It's a common theory that Starfy is such a useless assist trophy because the second party company that does own him, Tose, was being resistant or difficult with making Starfy playable. So unless Tose becomes more open to seeing him in Smash, I doubt we'll see him too.

No Metroid Character: Now what bothers me the most is that you decide to not add another character for Metroid. You add one MOTHER, you add two for Fire Emblem, and even add Two new Mario characters. But why not Metroid? It doesn't have to be Ridley, but everybody really wants him. I mean you also have Dark Samus and Anthony Higgs. Both are perfectly viable choices outside of Ridley.

2nd Pokemon Trainer: Will not happen, adding another trainer takes away from what makes the Pokemon Trainer unique.

Newtwo: Okay I guess, I would much prefer to see Mewtwo being able to change forms at will but that is only a personal qualm I have with that.

Matthew: Matthew is okay, but Isaac is the main character in Golden Sun. Isaac is the more realistic choice if you're going with someone from Golden Sun, but they are generally the same in battle style (At least from what I can tell).

Little Mac: ye u gun get ur bike stoln

Mega Man: YOU GOT: added to a roster

Bomberman: I would like to see Bomberman. I mean he's crossovered with Wario before, so why not? But seeing as his a Konami character now, I'd say he's lost his shot at Brawl. May I quickly suggest a Namco character to add in his place?
______________________________________________________
On your other characters possibilites, I only have to acknowledge two things.

Wreck-It Ralph: Ralph hasn't really done anything to deserve being in Smash Brothers other than being in the same movie as Bowser. If this was a Sega styled Smash Bros, I think he'd be a bit more realistic.

Cloud: Cloud has never appeared in a main stream Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo system. That practically kills his chances. If you're looking for a Square Enix rep, I'd go into Dragon Quest or look at the characters that appeared in Mario Hoops 3 on 3 and Mario Sports Mix. Those are the only Final Fantasy characters I'd ever think we could see.

______________________________________________________
Overall with your fifty character roster, the main things holding you back are:

- Over Representation of Mario (If Paper Mario is a Mario character, he or Bowser Jr. should go)
- Over Representation of Fire Emblem (While the franchise is big four characters is just too much)
- Adding a new MOTHER / Earthbound Character (Especially if it's Ninten. I understand you believe in him, but as you can see he has practically no realistic support)
- Skull Kid (Someone who appears a lot would be a bit more feasible)
- No Metroid new character (Everybody wants one and now we've got three great character choices, two of which we didn't have for Brawl)
- New Pokemon Trainer (It won't happen, I'd keep Lucario or go for Zoroark / Genesect personally)
- Bomberman (As much as I love the guy, his restriction to being a Konami character kills it for him)

I'd give it a 7 out of 10

 

[Arcadenik]

They've been working on the game for two - three years now without needing to show anything and without a set release date.
It doesn't seem like that will be a thing unless they make the release date this year or something.

There might be one after SSB4 trailer is shown at E3 2013.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

They've been working on the game for two - three years now without needing to show anything and without a set release date.

That't not true. The game began development after Kid Icarus: Uprising released in March of 2012. It's been just over a year.

 

[Curious Villager]

Toon Link, I can't help but feel that he got some competition with the likes of Young Link and Classic Link thanks to Ocarina of Time 3D (And maybe Majora's Mask 3D) and A Link to the Past 2. I feel like his only saving grace would be Wind Waker HD (Althought that might only encourage Sakurai to bring back the Pirate Ship stage) and Toon Zelda (If Sakurai wants to continue working on her, please give her Tetra and not Toon Sheik as her transformation).

I'd be kinda annoyed if Toon Link (like what happened to Mewtwo) gets the boot in smash 4 since he was my most wanted character for Brawl. I don't really want to see any characters cut, especially Toon Link. So I hope he comes back.

 

[_R@bid_]

I think the same thing will happen to Toon Link in SSB4 as happened to Falco and Gannon in Brawl. A few moves will be fully decloned, a bunch slightly changed, and overall both characters will have very different play styles with similar animations.
I doubt any full remaking will happen, and most changes will probably occur to his standards.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You haven't said WHY...

(also you'll find very few roster still have Lucario.)

-I explained why Ninten is a horrible choice and why Masked Man is a good one. I'm not repeating myself because you didn't see my post, though I'll gladly link to it.
-Eirka really does make no sense. We don't even need four FE reps in the first place and if we get four, the best options are probably down to Roy and someone from Awakening
-Actually a lot of Roster's still have Lucario. In some cases, I've seen it more than Mewtwo. It's not just because he's Gen 4 (The gen that most Poke fans hate, actually) or he's anything else. He was a highly requested choice into Brawl to begin with and put in before that. (Besides, how can you say Meta-Knight/Snake/Lucario team wasn't awesome?) Meanwhile, while I do like some characters that have the PT/Zelda and Sheik/Ice Climbers mechanics (Paper Mario you'll find me having something similar to PT if you look at my moveset for him) adding in a 2nd PT is just... unneeded. Especially when you consider how much less time it would take to just... add in Lucario
-Bomberman's not happening. Company was bought out or whatever. Get over it. If you had Square-Enix or Ubisoft even instead with like Black Mage, Chrono, or Rayman it'd be fine, especially given all the collaborations lately. Bomberman, however, is a pipe dream. Oh, there's still Lloyd, and if you want a less predicted Third-Party, try the ones mentioned in interviews a ton. (Travis and Layton)
-Skull Kid is a pipe dream and has next to nada that makes him important to Zelda. So Majora's Mask is a good Zelda game. Same with Skyward Sword, OoT, and Wind Waker with 3D's.
-I'll let Sheriff slide because he's a WTF and interesting. The WTF isn't really going to be a "Liked" character on the roster, then again, a surprising amount of people loved Game & Watch...
-Starfy is another pipe dream. With Isaac or Saki, you could tell that they could fit as playable, but considering Starfy is taken as a joke and he's only had one U.S. release from an only moderately popular franchise...
I haven't heard anything much asides from his U.S. release positive that's in his favor.
-I literally meant what I said with Geno. Even if they didn't have to pay, they would have to get Square-Enix's approval. What else is there to see?

At this point, it would be a smarter to think about looking into new franchises implemented onto the roster. I say this because the ones we currently have hardly warrant new characters.

I know exactly how you feel. I said it before and I'll say it again: The only two that really warrant new additions are DK and Metroid, and even then it's scarce to begin with and the pool for them both is so shallow. All the other franchises feel fine with themselves but could use one more character.

Meanwhile many series are out there. But hey, I'm not Sakurai. If he wants to buff the supporting cast and only add in like Isaac and Shulk, I'd just say let it be.

he was wanted on and off but overall not the most requested. dwarfed by X (or really any iteration of Megaman) and Strider and Pheonix Wright, who did get in the Ultimate edition at least. i even remember seeing a lot of support for Vile

he was the most wanted newcomer, especially once the original game already happened and Ultimate got announced. he was always in the top 5.

people stopped the support for wright as soon as the guy said "We can't do wright; he doesn't fight!" and then... yeah, bull****.

 

[FalKoopa]

Cut Andy, add K. Rool.

EDIT: In my personal opinion, your predicted roster is way better than your ideal one.

EDIT 2: Crap, posted in the wrong thread again.

 

[TheTuninator]

Whoops, sorry, forgot we weren't supposed to discuss in here.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The four most iconic weapons in Zelda shouldn't go anywhere. I would give him weapons that are technically the same kind of weapon, but are either used differently for have different features. For example, give Link the bomb arrow and T. Link Fire and Ice arrows. Give T. Link the Hurricane spin when he fully charges the spin attack. The other weapons are fine as they are.

This is actually pretty much what I'd like to see from T. Link. Switching arrowheads, mobile Spin Attack, and maybe use the grappling hook instead of the hookshot?

 

[Banjodorf]

Although I understand you're probably a huge AW fan, I'll agree that having Andy and not having K. Rool is a bit strange.

I do see Andy pop up from time to time, but it's just...different.

 

[TheTuninator]

At this point, it would be a smarter to think about looking into new franchises implemented onto the roster. I say this because the ones we currently have hardly warrant new characters.

I couldn't agree more. It's a little disappointing to see so many people demanding more Zelda or Mario characters when there's so many great Nintendo IPs out there that are sorely underrepresented and have far more potential for a great moveset.

I don't object to Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon swapping characters (i.e. Mewtwo for Lucario, or so forth) but none of these franchises needs to increase in total number of reps.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well there are some good modern reps here:
-Dillon
-Shulk
-Red Hero
-Bayonetta

 

[TheTuninator]

I'd really love Bayonetta, but I am having a hard time imagining how they would fit her into a T rating, especially given Nintendo's likely desire to make the game as family-friendly as possible. The guns aren't a problem as she's got plenty of other weapons, and they could even just make them shoot lasers or some such. On the other hand, toning her sexuality down without destroying her character completely would be extremely difficult given how integral Bayonetta's sexuality is to the character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'd really love Bayonetta, but I am having a hard time imagining how they would fit her into a T rating, especially given Nintendo's likely desire to make the game as family-friendly as possible. The guns aren't a problem as she's got plenty of other weapons, and they could even just make them shoot lasers or some such. On the other hand, toning her sexuality down without destroying her character completely would be extremely difficult given how integral Bayonetta's sexuality is to the character.

Hideki Kamiya from Platinum Games actually said he's tired of everyone asking for Bayonetta and other characters for SSB. So they aren't gonna be in it.


I thank everyone for the suggestions on my experiment roster. I kinda wanted to see what you guys think before I released it anywhere else.

I didn't really like this roster either. Like I said it was kinda an experiment.

Skull Kid- I don't think we even need a new Zelda rep at all. But, Majora's Mask is a VERY iconic Zelda game. I don't see anyone else getting in.

Bomberman- Even though Bomberman was bought out by Konami he hasn't had any history made with Konami yet. He wasn't INVENTED by Konami. You have to admit he has so much Nintendo related history. I don't want to take him out and then see him appear in SSB.

Eirika- I'm still keeping her in because I still believe there should be a Female Fire Emblem character. As long as we have another Metroid Rep and DK rep. But, there is A LOT of fan demand to bring back Roy, and with the new design he was given in Awakening.....OH, LAWD HAVE MERCY!

 

[TheTuninator]

Hideki Kamiya from Platinum Games actually said he's tired of everyone asking for Bayonetta and other characters for SSB. So they aren't gonna be in it.

Yeah, I don't put much stock in her being in the game, but I also don't take anything Kamiya says on Twitter very seriously. He's just constantly lashing out at people. Pretty common trend with high-profile public figures on Twitter in general these days, sadly. If you can't deal with the inevitable stream of idiotic questions, don't have a public Twitter account.

I can sympathize with getting annoyed by a constant stream of questions regarding something you have no control over, but the guy himself is partially responsible for encouraging it, too:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/246589664021065728

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Eirika- I'm still keeping her in because I still believe there should be a Female Fire Emblem character. As long as we have another Metroid Rep and DK rep. But, there is A LOT of fan demand to bring back Roy, and with the new design he was given in Awakening.....OH, LAWD HAVE MERCY!

Just three questions about Eirika.
1.) Why do we need a female Fire Emblem character, at least rather than a non-sword-using Fire Emblem character?
2.) Why her over more requested females, such as Lyn, the most well known female outside the fanbase, Anna, the most recurring character in the series, or even Micaiah, the first primarily magic-based Lord?
3.) What does her moveset provide that Marth doesn't already convey?

 

[TheTuninator]

I really can't see anyone from FE making it in other than Chrom, Marth, Ike, and Lucina (most likely as a costume swap for Chrom) unless SSB4's roster is absolutely gigantic.

Chrom and Marth are pretty much confirmed, Ike is likely assuming that the team was aware of how popular FE:A was when they hammered out the roster, and Lucina will likely be "in" due to the ease of making her a Marth alternate costume, but there's simply nothing to recommend the inclusion of other lords, even Roy.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we please stop saying Chrom is confirmed? He's not the shoe-in many people think.

 

[_R@bid_]

Roy is WAY more popular in Japan than Chrom, at least for Smash, isn't he? That alone should say Chrom isn't a shoe-in, since recentness is in no way the only factor for character inclusion.

 

[TheTuninator]

Can we please stop saying Chrom is confirmed? He's not the shoe-in many people think.

Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree, then. Awakening will certainly get a rep, and Chrom is more likely than MU as MU is a customizable character and therefore likely to disappoint players when he/she doesn't look like their MU.

Lucina would be the other choice, but she can't really exist as a separate character in the same game as Marth due to how similar their outfits are.

Unless you're suggesting that Awakening won't get a rep? It's possible, I suppose, but Nintendo would have to be insane to not give Awakening a rep given the game's massive popularity.

 

[FalKoopa]

No Fire Emblem character besides Marth is confirmed.

Unless you're suggesting that Awakening won't get a rep? It's possible, I suppose, but Nintendo would have to be insane to not give Awakening a rep given the game's massive popularity.

Just play it safe and don't put any newcomer's chances at 100%.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just three questions about Eirika.
1.) Why do we need a female Fire Emblem character, at least rather than a non-sword-using Fire Emblem character?
2.) Why her over more requested females, such as Lyn, the most well known female outside the fanbase, Anna, the most recurring character in the series, or even Micaiah, the first primarily magic-based Lord?
3.) What does her moveset provide that Marth doesn't already convey?

1. Because there are so many of them. She happens to be one of the few who is a main protagonist.

2. Lyn's moves would not be new. She has a bow that Pit & Link have and her B up and Forward would probably be the same as Ike.EX:

Plus her slash move would probably take up her B forward.

Anna is traditionally a non playable character. She usually hosts shops and tutorials.

3. Eirika takes up the spot as the Marth clone.

We have to have to have Marth, Chrom, and I EXPECT Ike. So let's say there was a 4th rep and it was a female who should it be?

Out of Roy, Marth, Chrom, Ike, Eirika, Lyn, and Leif. Who should the reps be?

 

[TheTuninator]

Just play it safe and don't put any newcomer's chances at 100%.

I said "pretty much confirmed", not "confirmed".

We have to have to have Marth, Chrom, and I EXPECT Ike. I had a roster with So let's say Ithere was a 4th rep and it was a female who should it be?

FE:A gives Anna at least a chance, though not much of one. Lyn's probably the most likely option due to her high-profile status with Western fans.

 

[_R@bid_]

A game being popular doesn't mean the characters are popular smash candidates. Ike got in even though his game wasn't that well received.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, any FE character other than Marth is hardly "pretty much confirmed", it's pretty presumptuous to think otherwise. Even Ike, who has better chances than Chrom or Roy, isn't "pretty much confirmed". Definitely not an actual newcomer.

 

[TheTuninator]

A game being popular doesn't mean the characters are popular smash candidates. Ike got in even though his game wasn't that well received.

Given Nintendo's history with promoting the most recent FE game in Smash, their desire to move copies of Smash, and FE:A's massive popularity, I am quite confident in stating that FE:A will have a rep. Others are free to disagree, of course.

 

[FalKoopa]

2. Lyn's moves would not be new. She has a bow that Pit & Link have and her B up and Forward would probably be the same as Ike.EX:

Plus her slash move would probably take up her B forward.

This is as bad as saying Wolf is a Fox clone.

Also, that attack is not Aether!

EDIT: Wait, her Forward B would be same as Ike? lolwat?