Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Shorts]

I guess considering different possibilities makes you an idiot.

 

[Morbi]

Few people predicted the Villager over the Miis, and most of us saw them as "in a competition" assuming either of them made it at all.

Hindsight... it was kind of a stupid debate. But hey! At least it made sense, unlike the stupid Fire Emblem discussions.

Well if you cut Snake, it would take about 3 times as much time, money, effort, and (way more than that) brainstorming to "replace him" with an equal newcomer with new moves.

Oh, and if you do it for your reasoning, Nintendo's relationships with Konami sours, which is bad for them and their Wii U, which is having a dreadful box office.

I don't really have a reasoning. I am making an assumption based on empirical data. I don't even want Snake to go, I want him to be replaced with Big Boss. Secondly, I highly doubt Konami cares if Snake makes it into Brawl. It isn't like they are marketing Phantom Pain like a Jigglypuff in a Jigglypuff shop. I don't really think Snake can be replaced. Simply removed.

 

[Johnknight1]

My top 3 guesses pre-Smash Wii U and 3DS for characters we'd see were:
1. K. Rool, 2. Miis, and 3. Mega Man. I thought we would only get two characters.

This is coming from someone who got nearly the entire Brawl roster right after the Brawl reveal. The only characters I missed were ROB and the Pokémon Trainer after the Sonic reveal (out of 45 characters I guessed), and 3 of my other guesses were in the Forbidden 7.

Point is, you don't guess 3 characters exactly right, including down to the name, without some sort of insider sources.

I wouldn't say that with Pichu.

Doc, sure. But Sakurai had no intention to bring Pichu back. That says a lot to me.

Just because there was more Brawl data for Doc than Pichu doesn't mean Pichu wouldn't be a higher priority. As I have pointed out with various skillset and playstyle talks, Pichu could be a super awesome high risk and high reward character that can KO early, but gets KO'd easily.

 

[Arcanir]

Hindsight... it was kind of a stupid debate. But hey! At least it made sense, unlike the stupid Fire Emblem discussions.

Medeus for SSB!

Sorry, I don't speak tween star.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

Hell, I was one of, if not the biggest, advocate for the Villager to show up in Smash Bros. But I never bet or predicted he would show up. Just a very heavy wish and hope.

So you can imagine when he was revealed, I flipped out at the first 2 seconds of the trailer, while I'm sure many others were a bit confused.

However, I never went "I knew it" or "I told you so". I sure as hell was not expecting him. I was so ecstatic, still my favorite newcomer. Will be hard to top that excitement haha

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't really have a reasoning. I am making an assumption based on empirical data. I don't even want Snake to go, I want him to be replaced with Big Boss. Secondly, I highly doubt Konami cares if Snake makes it into Brawl. It isn't like they are marketing Phantom Pain like a Jigglypuff in a Jigglypuff shop. I don't really think Snake can be replaced. Simply removed.

Yes, remove one of the good things about Brawl characters when you got a whole lot of characters in Brawl with tons of awful design choices to fix.

Also, all of your arguments could and do apply to Brawl and MGS IV. Also, Konami cares a bit, but Kojima probably cares A LOTTT!!!!

Besides, who says MGS V won't come to the Wii U eventually=??? Konami seems to be playing the smart (Catch 22) card of waiting until more people own Wii U's to even consider making a Wii U release of the game. Rockstar and GTA and 2k with their series and other developers are doing the same thing.

 

[ChronoBound]

Personally, I'm expecting Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man. Not going by the leak, Little Mac had strong chances prior to that, and if Sakurai went back on his feelings regarding the Villager, he most certainly would do so on Mii.

Pac-Man is the only one I probably would have still been iffy on without the leak. There is mediocre demand for him, especially when you compare him to the likes of Sonic and Mega Man. However, without the leak, I would have thought he would be the only plausible Namco character simply due to Sakurai's statements on guests (they need to be legendary characters).

 

[Johnknight1]

A source for what, Sakurai speaking positively of Snake?

A big part of that has to be that Snake was probably the best, most unique, and really most landscape changing newcomer in Brawl (if it wasn't Snake it was Olimar), whereas Sonic wasn't fully realized, and definitely has the potential to be that in a future smash bros game, which is what it looks like Sonic is realizing now.

Plus, Snake stands out in a roster with a few characters that kind of felt "lost" in the shuffle (namely the lackluster Pokémon Trainer and ROB) in ways that no other character Nintendo owns does. And on top of that, Snake brings a unique audience to smash that it wouldn't otherwise have. This is all simple Marketing 101.

Medeus for SSB!

I called people who thought that had a chance of happening out of their minds from the get-go.

Don't even get me started there, especially since I see Palutena as less than expected (although she still has a legit "chance" at being playable, definitely).

 

[ChronoBound]

Personally, I think there is a good chance the Wii U is going to have worse third-party support in 2014 that it did in 2013 even with a larger install base.

I think MGS5 could plausibly come to the Wii U (especially considering a release date has not even been set on it), however, I am not optimistic on it happening.

 

[Morbi]

Yes, remove one of the good things about Brawl characters when you got a whole lot of characters in Brawl with tons of awful design choices to fix.

Also, all of your arguments could and do apply to Brawl and MGS IV. Also, Konami cares a bit, but Kojima probably cares A LOTTT!!!!

Besides, who says MGS V won't come to the Wii U eventually=??? Konami seems to be playing the smart (Catch 22) card of waiting until more people own Wii U's to even consider making a Wii U release of the game. Rockstar and GTA and 2k with their series and other developers are doing the same thing.

It is a personal opinion. What arguments? I literally just stated that there was no rational basis for my opinion. So I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply think Snake has lower priority based on EMPIRICAL data. MY OWN. So there is nothing to even comment on.

 

[Arcanir]

I called people who thought that had a chance of happening idiots from the get-go.

Don't even get me started there, especially since I see Palutena as less than expected (although she still has a legit "chance" at being playable, definitely).

I was being facetious.

Personally, I think there is a good chance the Wii U is going to have worse third-party support in 2014 that it did in 2013 even with a larger install base.

I think MGS5 could plausibly come to the Wii U (especially considering a release date has not even been set on it), however, I am not optimistic on it happening.

Probably, it needs to show that it's a strong system before it gets support back. Either way, even if it did, I don't think MGS5 would make it over since it seems more at home on the consoles it's currently on.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ I know you weren't being mean or anything like that!!!

I'm just sayin' a lot of people back in the day on the old Smash 4 thread gave me a lot of flack for saying 3 Kid Icarus characters definitely won't happen, Medusa definitely won't happen, and that I don't see us getting Palutena all that likely!

It is a personal opinion. What arguments? I literally just stated that there was no rational basis for my opinion. So I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply think Snake has lower priority based on EMPIRICAL data. MY OWN. So there is nothing to even comment on.

We're talking about two different things then I guess. You are talking about data and chances, I'm talking about perspective, and how Snake IMO is the most "fit" character to translate well into a new game, as well as stand out as good as or more than any of the unconfirmed 17 Brawl newcomers left (which is 14 now considering Pit, Olimar, and sonic are confirmed).

Funny, we got 2 Brawn newcomers with loads of untapped potential in Brawl confirmed (Pit and Sonic) that have been patched up quite a bit, and the 2 Brawl newcomers IMO that stand out the most, were easily the best executed, the most well designed, and just feel like their design was great (Olimar and Snake).

 

[ChronoBound]

Probably, it needs to show that it's a strong system before it gets support back. Either way, even if it did, I don't think MGS5 would make it over since it seems more at home on the consoles it's currently on.

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze got delayed until next year. They are going to have to ride out the entire holiday season on just Super Mario 3D World and the bundles.

The Wii U is at least getting multi-plats from Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive, but I don't think that is going to last when those companies make their next round of AAA games for PS4/Xbone and no longer PS3/360.

Sega right now is the only Japanese company (and thinking about it the only third-party in general) with a third party exclusive announced for the Wii U (Sonic Lost World). That is really, really bad. A worse situation than the Nintendo 64, GameCube, and Wii.

 

[Johnknight1]

So guys, Future Johnknight1 just got off the Telegraph with me (or so he calls it; it's some sort of weird future technology thing I think).

Apparently, according to Future Johnknight1, Mewtwo is playable in Smash Wii U and 3DS for sure.

Future Johnknight1 also provided me with a video of Mewtwo's Return, and alas I shall share it with all of you!!!!
[collapse="HERE YOU GO!!!!"]

[/collapse]

 

[Zhadgon]

^^^ I know you weren't being mean or anything like that!!!

I'm just sayin' a lot of people back in the day on the old Smash 4 thread gave me a lot of flack for saying 3 Kid Icarus characters definitely won't happen, Medusa definitely won't happen, and that I don't see us getting Palutena all that likely!


We're talking about two different things then I guess. You are talking about data and chances, I'm talking about perspective, and how Snake IMO is the most "fit" character to translate well into a new game, as well as stand out as good as or more than any of the unconfirmed 17 Brawl newcomers left (which is 14 now considering Pit, Olimar, and sonic are confirmed).

Funny, we got 2 Brawn newcomers with loads of untapped potential in Brawl confirmed (Pit and Sonic) that have been patched up quite a bit, and the 2 Brawl newcomers IMO that stand out the most, were easily the best executed, the most well designed, and just feel like their design was great (Olimar and Snake).

Why didn´t you get sooner, seriously is no sense when the people start arguing with you about Sanke and that he will not get any priority when he has really a great moveset potential, a lot of the work is done and cutting him means cutting a lot of things like music, stages, assist trophies and many more things because he is a whole series and is the representative. Thank you for having some common sense (sometimes the board needs it).
.n_n.

 

[Johnknight1]

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze got delayed until next year. They are going to have to ride out the entire holiday season on just Super Mario 3D World and the bundles.

And Wii Sports HD Online whatever and Wii Fit U. That's a plenty fine lineup. As for DKC Tropical Freeze, that's a good move. Their early 2014 schedule needs beef, and maybe then GTA V won't effect their sales as much. Literally the whole early 2014 schedule is ripe for the picking.

Having Tropical Freeze plus potentially a Yoshi and Kirby game between then and Fall 2014 are big deals for Nintendo until the big gun game Nintendo has up its' sleeve arrives in Fall 2014 on the Wii U, whether it is Zelda, Animal Crossing, Pokémon, Smash, or another Mario game, or some combination of that.

The Wii U is at least getting multi-plats from Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive, but I don't think that is going to last when those companies make their next round of AAA games for PS4/Xbone and no longer PS3/360.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 are going to get supported heavily until either consoles' successor console gets a huge user base. Like at least 30 million consoles for either the X-1 (I'm gonna start calling it that) or PS4, and upwards of 50 million consoles of either of them.

With this global recession, people aren't going to flock to these consoles quite as fast as last generation, that's for sure.

 

[ChronoBound]

I re-watched the clip for A Link Between Worlds, and I got very good news for Diddy Kong...

Impa confirmed for A Link Between Worlds....

Spoiler

But as an old lady.

 

[Johnknight1]

Thank you for having some common sense (sometimes the board needs it).
.n_n.

There are legitimate points to be had in the probability of Snake being cut on the other side.

But regardless, thanks for the compliments. *takes off his cap and tips it*

That actually reminds me I need to compliment people more on here.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

Heck no.

Keep him. He's awesome!

 

[XStarWarriorX]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

I like snake, I would like him to stay, to tbh either way i'm fine with it. I just want lyn, so that the first FE in the west can get some props...




I'd rather have no cuts at all, that'd be perfect.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

Nope. Snake's deserving more now than he was in Brawl.

 

[FalKoopa]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

I want him to stay. I liked his inclusion more than Sonic's, and now that Sonic is back I really want to see him return as well.

 

[Johnknight1]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

He would make the roster smaller if you cut him fyi.

For proof, look at business: it is up to 5 times more expensive to lose a client and gain a client than to just keep 1 client. The same is true in video game development. Now with a new character you need to brainstorm new ideas (time wasted), make an original art design for them (time wasted), come up with a new outfit and design (time wasted), come up with new moves (time wasted), apply those new moves (time wasted), and then balance, test, and try that character out more than you would a veteran.

Also, why would you want literally one of the two best executed Brawl newcomers cut=???

Why not want the smash bros development team to cut a generic character like ROB, Lucario or Pit, or a ridiculously poorly executed character, like the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon=???

Literally, it is like asking if you want to cut Marth or Mewtwo from Melee to Brawl. Sure, Mewtwo is more popular, but man, Marth pretty much was perfect in Melee, was more popular in Melee, and is an easier export than Mewtwo (unless you want to keep the awful Mewtwo in Melee as it is, which you shouldn't).

 

[MasterOfKnees]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

Snake is too unique to cut. He was a great and fun addition.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

What's the reasons for preferring Snake to be cut other than that he likely kicked your bum in Brawl?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

What's the reasons for preferring Snake to be cut other than that he likely kicked your bum in Brawl?

Some people are going all "He doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast. He doesn't belong in a Nintendo All-Stars game. Durr hurr di Gurdurr." Which is silly, imo he simply shows how broad Smash Bros is.

 

[FalKoopa]

Why not want the smash bros development team to cut a generic character like ROB, Lucario or Pit, or a ridiculously poorly executed character, like the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon=???

Don't dare...

 

[ChronoBound]

Looks like A Link Between World is going all out with fanservice:

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Also, why would you want literally one of the two best executed Brawl newcomers cut=???

Why not want the smash bros development team to cut a generic character like ROB, Lucario or Pit, or a ridiculously poorly executed character, like the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon=???

Literally, it is like asking if you want to cut Marth or Mewtwo from Melee to Brawl. Sure, Mewtwo is more popular, but man, Marth pretty much was perfect in Melee, was more popular in Melee, and is an easier export than Mewtwo (unless you want to keep the awful Mewtwo in Melee as it is, which you shouldn't).

This is all subjective. Snake is in the eyes of the competitive scene a ridiculous character in the way he was executed. His D-Throw and U-Tilt setup is ridiculous, and that's pretty much everything that makes him such a strong character. I remember when Brawl was just new there was talk about banning Snake, though that didn't last long once Meta Knight went ahead and trampled everyone down. Of course that's not a good reason to want him cut, he will need a nerf though. Just saying, Pit, Lucario and R.O.B were all better executed in what they brought to the balance of the game (and were in no way generic compared to, dare I say Toon Link?) and considering Pokémon Trainer's concept he was also pulled of pretty well (only problem is the stamina, which is stupid, and the imbalance between his Pokémons.)

There's no reason to go on and hate on other Brawl characters just because one guy doesn't want Snake in, especially not when it's as subjective as this.

 

[Reznor]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

I say get rid of all 3rd parties kiip it all nintendo (but keep Megaman )

Why not want the smash bros development team to cut a generic character like ROB, Lucario or Pit, or a ridiculously poorly executed character, like the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon=???

Why you gotta hate on the ROB

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Looks like A Link Between World is going all out with fanservice:

Majora's Mask 3DS confirmed.

Or Hoenn.

----

 

[IsmaR]

What's the reasons for preferring Snake to be cut other than that he likely kicked your bum in Brawl?

If you're Vamp, of course.

 

[ChronoBound]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25792657@N00/10040516463/in/set-72157636087169566/lightbox/

The red-haired fairy reminds me of:

The green fairy reminds me of:

 

[ZeldaMaster]

The reason I believe Snake needs to be cut is that Metal Gear as a franchise means less to Nintendo now than ever before. Plus, I really doubt Hideo Kojima cares whether Snake makes it in this game or not, even if he and Sakurai are friends. If Konami isn't releasing MGS 5 on Wii U, then why should Nintendo be obliged to keep Snake in Smash Bros. Plus, of all the the characters in Smash, there is NO DENYING that Snake fits in the least.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think Sakurai even cared about Snake not being prominent in Nintendo consoles. Hell, in Brawl, there was a crapload of allusions to MGS4, which was one of the biggest games to be released on the PS3 that same year. Tell me, how did that stop Snake from getting in?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I really don't think people have any good reasons for Snake to be cut.

Honestly, no matter what the case, i'd be a little sad if I were Kojima if Snake got cut. I'll elaborate more on this later.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I feel like Snake will probably be cut. I DON'T want him to be cut though. He was one of my favorites in Brawl.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How many of you guys would actually prefer Snake to be cut? I know I would.

Solid Snake had his time to shine in Brawl. Time to move on and let some other 3rd party guest take the spotlight.

 

[Arcadenik]

Solid Snake had his time to shine in Brawl. Time to move on and let some other 3rd party guest take the spotlight.

I hope Simon Belmont will one day be confirmed as a playable character in SSB4 or a future Smash game.