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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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deadjames

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Keep in mind Dr. Mario is a very well received, mained, and classic Character that people and Sakurai seemed to like. He COULD definitely return if Sakurai has time at the end to add him since he's not hard to program.

Who wants to discuss this roster in great detail?
View attachment 2734
Everything on that roster looks good to me except for Starfy and Miis, also I feel like R.O.B. could stand to be cut, since it's not even really a character and should be buried along with Nintendo's other flops like the Power Glove and the Virtual Boy. Also Roy should only come back if he actually has a different moveset from Marth because in Melee Marth was far superior.
 

Shorts

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Still, doesn't make Toon Link being unchanged suck any less.
 

TheLastJinjo

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there are already five characters that would sooner get cut than Wolf (Snake, Sonic, Ike, Lucario and Pokémon Trainer).

Considering that Sonic was much bigger of a third-party than Snake, I'm not hard pressed to agree that if any guest returns, it will be Sonic. Snake will only return if we get four third-parties,
The hell are you talking about? Why can't we just have Sonic, Snake and Mega Man???
 

?????????????

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Keep in mind Dr. Mario is a very well received, mained, and classic Character that people and Sakurai seemed to like. He COULD definitely return if Sakurai has time at the end to add him since he's not hard to program.

Who wants to discuss this roster in great detail?
View attachment 2734
I'll just give some of my personal beliefs cause that's what I know.

I don't see why Samus and Zero Suit Samus are separate slots. The only scenario where I see that is if their Final Smashes don't make them switch into eachother anymore.

I know people may disagree, but I REALLY don't see a reason for Roy to return. If he was removed back in Brawl, why would they return him now, when the game he starred in is further away? If there was an official announcement for a remake of his game, or extra promotion for the character, I'd agree. But, while I think Mewtwo has accomplished this (I always left him off of my wish rosters despite him being my favorite Pokemon, until the announcement of X&Y) I don't think Roy has done anything to warrant a return.

I PERSONALLY have never seen a big reason to have a second Kid Icarus character, but I don't have a problem with it.

Everything else looks totally fine to me.
 

ChronoBound

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Its going to be amusing if Mii is confirmed in the next several months. I think people would be hard pressed to deny Pac-Man is getting in at that point.

Note, I am not thrilled about Mii and Pac-Man either.
 

Morbi

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Opinion?

Opinion?



Because it's a bloody opinion that Sakurai chooses Pokémon by marketability.
And it's opinion that Jigglypuff is nowhere near as marketable as it was in the past.
And it's also opinion that Jigglypuff as well as Mewtwo were lower priority characters in Brawl, around the time that coincidentally they both dropped a substantial degree of marketing.


No my friend, 'tis no opinion, 'tis logic.



I'd like to point out that Sakurai NEVER said that he picks the "newest" Pokémon characters, and that he DID in fact CUT OUT A PREVIOUS SMASH POKEMON THAT REALLY HAD NO REASON TO BE CUT OTHERWISE.

I'd also like to point out that I NEVER SAID JIGGLYPUFF WAS GOING TO BE CUT NOR THAT IT DOESN'T HOLD SOME "RIGHT" TO RETURN; JUST THAT IT IS NOWHERE NEAR THE LEVEL OF SAFETY THAT PEOPLE CLAIM IT TO BE.

So I suggest if you're going to step into the lion's den while the lion's been particularly riled up, you get your facts straight first.
You are so full of it. Look up opinion on Free Dictionary.com, the point is that everything you said is subjective.

Also, this is not directed at you Golden, but I was right about Toon Link. Everyone who thought that Toon Link being in the background of a level was enough to de-confirm him got it wrong. I am so happy. I guess people will still think Toad is de-confirmed simply because he appears in the game? Fallacy.
 

TumblrFamous

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Some points

-16 confirmed characters
-ness, c.falcon, yoshi, jiggly not confirmed yet but will most likely be in.
-roster size will be smaller than brawl, probably around melee's size or slightly bigger
-factor in upcoming titles: DK tropical freeze, sonic lost worlds, pokemon x/y, fire emblem awakening.

so from these points, we have

16 (confirmed) + 4 (originals) + 5 (characters from upcoming titles) brings the total so far to 25 give or take a few, if you add zelda/sheik it brings it to 27

remember, nintendo wants characters in that will show up in upcoming titles, its like what marvel did with MvC3 they added some characters that came out with movies.

so we can assume we will be getting sonic, another donkey kong character either diddy or ditzy, 1 more fire emblem character, and obviously a character from pokemon x/y.

roster will be somewhere between melee and brawl 26-38.

my prediction: there will be 5 more new characters and the rest will be returning characters.
I'm sorry, but I can't pass this up: where is a source where it says the roster will be smaller than Brawl's? I'd like a link to that article. Because I'm pretty sure Sakurai said we can't add that many characters, and they might not have time to bring every character back.
 

MargnetMan23

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side-b, down-b, dtilt, utilt, fsmash, and fair are his only moves that are different from Mario's, everything else is exactly the same, even his getup attacks if I'm not mistaken.
How about this? His dash attack isn't even comparable to mario's his jab combo is different, his Dair is different and even some of the moves that are the same have their unique spin on things such as Up B and Neutral B. There is a difference between a semi clone and a clone. Just saying.
 

deadjames

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And you know as well as I do that the way he defines unique =/= the way fans do.
Literally, the best example is Toon Link since his reveal started this convo; Toon Link may have moves similar to Link, but Toon Link can't really be played the same nor do they have the same attributes.
The same can be said for every clone, just look at Doc, Falco, and Roy on Melee, their moves are all exactly the same as Mario, Fox, and Marth, but the differences in properties give them very different play styles, but a clone is still a clone.
 

?????????????

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I'm just gonna say it bluntly. I think a return of Snake is more likely than Pac-Man.

Could be totally wrong and disproven, but that's where I stand right now.
 

ChronoBound

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I know people may disagree, but I REALLY don't see a reason for Roy to return..
Being planned for Brawl and among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (especially in Japan) helps a great deal. It also helps that FE6 is one of most popular installments in the series.

I do think though a Roy return is going to mean a FE6 remake down the line.
 

Morbi

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I'm just gonna say it bluntly. I think a return of Snake is more likely than Pac-Man.

Could be totally wrong and disproven, but that's where I stand right now.
I am just going to say it bluntly, I think Big Boss replacing Snake is more likely than the return of Snake over Pac-Man.

I could be totally wrong, but that is where I stand currently.
 

?????????????

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Being planned for Brawl and among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (especially in Japan) helps a great deal. It also helps that FE6 is one of most popular installments in the series.

I do think though a Roy return is going to mean a FE6 remake down the line.
I myself don't count "being planned" as a good reason. It still means he was a low enough priority to, ultimately, be cut.

Being popular helps, but I don't think it's a good enough reason on it's own.

FE6 is one of the most popular, but if the articles I've read are correct, Awakening is the best-selling of all time.
 
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I agree, I think Sakurai is really going to make an effort to return all of Brawl. It's certainly possible.

But the question is: if we do get all of those 35 Brawl slots back, how many slots will be for newcomers? I mean, we have 38 slots filled now, there might be one random, which could be 38-39 already. Any thoughts on how much it will go up? Because I'm a bit worried there won't be that many.

Don't get me wrong, gameplay and overall cleanliness is so much more important, but come on. The one thing people hype for the most is new characters.
My guess is that we will get a roster in the early fifties (transformation included). At worst case scenario, we will see at least forty-five characters (again, transformation included).

So anywhere between 45 to 58 is possible, but I'm betting more from 48 to 53.
How do you guys feel about the addition of Paper Mario as a new Mario character?

Personally he's my favorite choice if there's another Mario character at all. I like Bowser Jr. a lot too, but I think Paper Mario broadens the spectrum of represented Mario characters a little bit more in that a whole new sub-series is being represented...not even just that, a whole genre: the Mario RPG games. Not even just in Smash; Mario sports games, kart games, and party games have rarely if ever referenced any of the RPG games, which I think is a shame since they're usually great. I'd be totally up for his inclusion for that reason alone, but thinking about how awesome his moves would be gets me even more excited.
I'd love to see Paper Mario show up in Smash, but I particularly want to see more Paper Mario representation. Loved the first three games and would be all for giving the game more contents even if Paper Mario fails to become playable.
I really wonder what is going to happen with Smash Bros. speculation if both Zoroark and Chrom don't make it in.

I hope at the very least Game Freak and Intelligent Systems use it as a lesson to make more original posterboys in the future.

Toon Link also shows that you don't necessarily have to be the most recent start to get in (ALBW Link is technically the most recent incarnation of "child" Link now).
I think people will once and for all realize just how little recentness matter. Should that day come, it will be glorious. Recentness is the pre-Brawl equivalent of the female supporters except without the supporters drenching us in fetish.
The hell are you talking about? Why can't we just have Sonic, Snake and Mega Man???
Because Pac-Man is going to get in. Remember that leak back a few months ago? Well it's true and will prove to be true eventually. So yeah, unless we get four third-parties, Snake isn't coming back.
 

deadjames

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How about this? His dash attack isn't even comparable to mario's his jab combo is different, his Dair is different and even some of the moves that are the same have their unique spin on things such as Up B and Neutral B. There is a difference between a semi clone and a clone. Just saying.
Right I forgot about his dash attack, and as I just said the whole point of clones is to give the same move different properties, and I forgot about his dair being different because I've been playing mostly P:M lately, but over half of Luigi's moves are still the same as Mario, I think that if the majority of his moveset is the same then that's enough for him to be considered a full clone.
 

?????????????

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I am just going to say it bluntly, I think Big Boss replacing Snake is more likely than the return of Snake over Pac-Man.

I could be totally wrong, but that is where I stand currently.
That's possible, but that being the case, they might as well still call him Snake. Brawl's roster didn't call the character "Solid Snake." If it's based on MGS3 (because of the 3DS remake), they could continue to just call him "Snake."
 

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I truly don't know why people think PKMN Trainer is so likely to be cut. Sakurai has wanted him since Melee, he's the most popular and well-known Pokemon protagonist, and he has the three most popular and iconic Pokemon lines as his characters. Yes, he is a fair bit more work than the standard character, but Sakurai has never prioritized ease of implementation over merit. If he wants the Trainer to return, he'll return. And why wouldn't he want him to return?
 

Hotfeet444

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Lucario dead last in importance? I call bull sh*t.
Actually he is. The Pokemon characters as of now are important to both Pokemon and Smash Bros, and while some may be in one category than the other, they're important to Smash Bros. Pikachu...important to Pokemon as the Mascot and main star of Pokemon for Smash Bros, Jigglypuff, relevancy lost a bit in recent years, but has gone back up thanks to X/Y and is VERY important to Smash Bros, Pokemon Trainer, the main character of Pokemon, the character we play as, his pokemon are important to Pokemon and his intricate style is important to Smash Bros. Mewtwo, although only in Melee as of now, was intended for every title in the franchise and is, in certain ways, a perfect attendee in data, he is VERY important to Pokemon, and the fans of Smash Bros see him as important to the franchise of Smash Bros as well. Lucario is only slightly above average importance in pokemon and really doesn't have any importance to Smash Bros aside from the ability of his aura, Lucario, as of right now, is most likely at the bottom of the importance list for the five pokemon veterans.
 

ChronoBound

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He said "one of the most" not "the most"
I'm not sure if FE13 is even the most popular game in the West. I think when the dust settles people will be more open to FE13's flaws. I think overall FE7 and FE9 were better than it as far as international FE games go. I think FE9 in particular is crippled in popularity due to having been made for the GameCube, and copies being relatively expensive to get.
 

Reznor

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Lucario could be gone if franchises are still kept at four.
Mewtwo could be replacing Lucario.
if the franchises are kept at 4 then I see Jiggs leaving not Lucario sadly

Lucario is still one of the most popular pokemon
 

?????????????

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If ANY Pokemon character get cuts in favor of Mewtwo...I really think it's gonna be Lucario.

But I hope they just up the franchise to 5. If they do that, I hope they also up Mario to 5.
 

deadjames

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I truly don't know why people think PKMN Trainer is so likely to be cut. Sakurai has wanted him since Melee, he's the most popular and well-known Pokemon protagonist, and he has the three most popular and iconic Pokemon lines as his characters. Yes, he is a fair bit more work than the standard character, but Sakurai has never prioritized ease of implementation over merit. If he wants the Trainer to return, he'll return. And why wouldn't he want him to return?
Just remove the stupid fatigue mechanic and I'm fine with PT returning.
 
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Actually he is. The Pokemon characters as of now are important to both Pokemon and Smash Bros, and while some may be in one category than the other, they're important to Smash Bros. Pikachu...important to Pokemon as the Mascot and main star of Pokemon for Smash Bros, Jigglypuff, relevancy lost a bit in recent years, but has gone back up thanks to X/Y and is VERY important to Smash Bros, Pokemon Trainer, the main character of Pokemon, the character we play as, his pokemon are important to Pokemon and his intricate style is important to Smash Bros. Mewtwo, although only in Melee as of now, was intended for every title in the franchise and is, in certain ways, a perfect attendee in data, he is VERY important to Pokemon, and the fans of Smash Bros see him as important to the franchise of Smash Bros as well. Lucario is only slightly above average importance in pokemon and really doesn't have any importance to Smash Bros aside from the ability of his aura, Lucario, as of right now, is most likely at the bottom of the importance list for the five pokemon veterans.
Lucario's importance has also gone up as a result of Pokémon X & Y. He's being heavily promoted right now, especially with his Mega form.
 

Hotfeet444

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Lucario's importance has also gone up as a result of Pokémon X & Y. He's being heavily promoted right now, especially with his Mega form.
Which is cleanly being overshadowed by both of Mewtwo's forms.

Edit: Why am I even TALKING about this?! If it comes down to four reps, Mewtwo will not lose a spot to Lucario. And no, don't bring up Brawl, times are different and Mewtwo is back in its prime.
 

Morbi

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Actually he is. The Pokemon characters as of now are important to both Pokemon and Smash Bros, and while some may be in one category than the other, they're important to Smash Bros. Pikachu...important to Pokemon as the Mascot and main star of Pokemon for Smash Bros, Jigglypuff, relevancy lost a bit in recent years, but has gone back up thanks to X/Y and is VERY important to Smash Bros, Pokemon Trainer, the main character of Pokemon, the character we play as, his pokemon are important to Pokemon and his intricate style is important to Smash Bros. Mewtwo, although only in Melee as of now, was intended for every title in the franchise and is, in certain ways, a perfect attendee in data, he is VERY important to Pokemon, and the fans of Smash Bros see him as important to the franchise of Smash Bros as well. Lucario is only slightly above average importance in pokemon and really doesn't have any importance to Smash Bros aside from the ability of his aura, Lucario, as of right now, is most likely at the bottom of the importance list for the five pokemon veterans.
Thank you for explaining that clear and concise. The main thing I want to point out is that you are correct. Jigglypuff has lost relevancy in recent years, but he is VERY important to Smash. We aren't debating whether or not Jigglypuff will be on the front cover of X and Y because she is a Fairy type. She is important after 13 and a half years of being in the franchise (Smash). So I think it would be fair to say that Lucario is the lowest priority. Not only is he COMMONLY associated as someone who replaced Mewtwo, but his new Mega Evolution gives him just as much relevancy as Jiggs getting Fairy type. They are the same thing. When we examine it from the Smash lens, Jigglypuff is way more important. Mewtwo and Pikachu are given, Pokemon Trainer has Charizard and he represents Pokemon as a whole.

Lucario was just a cool 4th gen Pokemon. He hasn't really been popular in recent years either. At least compared to Charizard/Mewtwo/Pikachu.
 
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You are so full of it. Look up opinion on Free Dictionary.com, the point is that everything you said is subjective.
Why don't you look up what subjective means on Free Dictionary.com before using it?
Because nothing I said was subjective.

If you are going to try and claim that Sakurai doesn't invoke marketability when selecting Pokémon, Jigglypuff is still marketable, and that Jigglypuff and Mewtwo weren't low-priority and didn't decline in marketing during Brawl's development, and that all of those points were just something I made up in my mind, then it is you who is full of it my friend.
 
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