Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[deadjames]

Luigi is a clone o.O?

side-b, down-b, dtilt, utilt, fsmash, and fair are his only moves that are different from Mario's, everything else is exactly the same, even his getup attacks if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

The only merit at all to Toon Sheik getting in would be to see Diddy Kong's reaction...

Or by just getting regular Sheik in.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The only merit at all to Toon Sheik getting in would be to see Diddy Kong's reaction...

Basically it would consist of him throwing his hat on the ground and stomping on out of pure frustration.

Bonus points if Isaac, Impa, Anthony Higgs, Blastoise, etc. don't make it either.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I agree, I think Sakurai is really going to make an effort to return all of Brawl. It's certainly possible.

But the question is: if we do get all of those 35 Brawl slots back, how many slots will be for newcomers? I mean, we have 38 slots filled now, there might be one random, which could be 38-39 already. Any thoughts on how much it will go up? Because I'm a bit worried there won't be that many.

Don't get me wrong, gameplay and overall cleanliness is so much more important, but come on. The one thing people hype for the most is new characters.

I think people are underestimating how many characters there will be. Optimistically, if we get all of Brawl back, we could still look at 10+ newcomers. Puts it at the 45 range.

No one brings this up, but SSE took up a TON of resources and is probably what cost the Forbidden 7 their spots. These game won't have an SSE type deal, so what does that leave? A TON more development time and resources for characters, stages, and extras ALA Melee.

 

[SaikyoBro]

How do you guys feel about the addition of Paper Mario as a new Mario character?

Personally he's my favorite choice if there's another Mario character at all. I like Bowser Jr. a lot too, but I think Paper Mario broadens the spectrum of represented Mario characters a little bit more in that a whole new sub-series is being represented...not even just that, a whole genre: the Mario RPG games. Not even just in Smash; Mario sports games, kart games, and party games have rarely if ever referenced any of the RPG games, which I think is a shame since they're usually great. I'd be totally up for his inclusion for that reason alone, but thinking about how awesome his moves would be gets me even more excited.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Because unlike between Melee and Brawl, he's being replaced with a much more famous, much more popular, much more wanted, and much more relevant Pokemon than the one who was already in. There is no competition between the popularity of Mewtwo and Lucario, Mewtwo crushes him under his three-toed foot.

And no, a Roster of Gen 1 pokemon is not illogical, especially when all said pokemon have something important to do with what's going on in Pokemon right now.

Here we go again. You can't claim Sakurai doesn't care about having at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, he cares about many things we consider little and it affects the roster, so it's way more logical in every way to have at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, I'm shocked and urked that people convince themselves otherwise. Also how is Mewtwo more relevant than Lucario!?!?!? Lucario is equally irrelevant! And yes there is competition between the 2 because they are close to the same amount of popularity, all that has changed for Mewtwo is an X form and a movie. Most people don't take these things into consideration and immediately jump to dumb things like "Jiggs is immune, Toon Link is low priority, Gen 1 is okay with me so it's okay with Sakurai because their iconic." Having only gen 1 is representing Pokemon horribly and Lucario has way more advantage over jigglypuff. If you can believe being Smash 64 makes you priority you can believe that something much more logicial such as being different gen gives you priority, as if Lucario didn't have major priority in the first place.

Lucario also has a lot to due with Pokemon right now too and it doesn't make any sense for Sakurai to make the exact same mistake he made in Brawl.

 

[Arcadenik]

ASSUMING we get no cuts... we have 35 veteran slots already plus 3 newcomer slots so far... so we have a total of 38 character slots.

IF there are 45 slots... then there are 7 unconfirmed newcomers. Who do you think they might be?

IF there are 50 slots... then there are 12 unconfirmed newcomers. Who do you think they might be?

 

[ChronoBound]

Kind of like how Mewtwo and Roy were safe in Brawl? And FE only had one newcomer, and one other veteran. I don't think you can really say this confidently... at all.
.

You are making no sense.

I said they are all safe so long as Game Freak doesn't tell Sakurai to put in someone that out-prioritizes the Pokemon veterans.

 

[TumblrFamous]

That also includes Melee cuts. At the very least Sakurai was intending to bring back Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario for Brawl.

I think Mewtwo is virtually guaranteed, and Roy has a good shot.

Also, people shouldn't be too surprised if Dr. Mario returns (even if we get a Mario newcomer confirmed in November or December, Dr. Mario would still be feasible as a last minute boost to the roster).

True. These three definitely have shots getting in:

Mewtwo>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roy>>>>>>>>>Dr. Mario

Dr. Mario is not impossible, but he would be like he was in Melee and Brawl: an expendable last-minute addition. Only he didn't make it to Brawl. So we'll see. Personally, I loved the idea of Dr. Mario. Mario just doesn't have some flair in his moves or playstyle that makes me want to play him, neither does Link. That's why I prefer Dr. Mario and Toon Link over them.

 

[deadjames]

How do you guys feel about the addition of Paper Mario as a new Mario character?

Personally he's my favorite choice if there's another Mario character at all. I like Bowser Jr. a lot too, but I think Paper Mario broadens the spectrum of represented Mario characters a little bit more in that a whole new sub-series is being represented...not even just that, a whole genre: the Mario RPG games. Not even just in Smash; Mario sports games, kart games, and party games have rarely if ever referenced any of the RPG games, which I think is a shame since they're usually great. I'd be totally up for his inclusion for that reason alone, but thinking about how awesome his moves would be gets me even more excited.

It could be cool, but I'd rather just have some of Mario's and Luigi's abilities from the Mario and Luigi games incorporated into their movesets if they wanted to represent more from the RPG spin-offs, if they add any more Mario characters (which they really don't need to) I'd like to see Bowser, Jr. and Rosalina.

 

[Starbound]

Some points
-roster size will be smaller than brawl, probably around melee's size or slightly bigger

source?

 

[Shorts]

Bonus points if Isaac, doesn't make it either.

Agreed.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Any Newcomer > Dr. Mario

 

[Gune]

Kind of like how Mewtwo and Roy were safe in Brawl? And FE only had one newcomer, and one other veteran. I don't think you can really say this confidently... at all.

He actually can Mewtwo and Roy had totally different situations than Ike and Lucario so that comparison isnt very valid.

 

[Autumn ♫]

When I woke up this morning to see Toon Link, holy carp, I didn't know that I would be this happy, especially in all of my rosters that had cuts, Toon Link was one of them and I kind of wanted him to leave but I guess I was lying to myself, because I'm really happy he's back.

 

[Arcadenik]

Any Newcomer > Dr. Mario

Toad > Any Newcomer > Dr. Mario

 

[Shorts]

He actually can Mewtwo and Roy had totally different situations than Ike and Lucario so that comparison isnt very valid.

Not at all really. Well potentially. Both franchises are most likely having a character added, and like in Brawl, they are going to have to prioritize. Which means some characters will be lower priority. These characters have a chance of being cut, just how Mewtwo and Roy were.

 

[SaikyoBro]

It could be cool, but I'd rather just have some of Mario's and Luigi's abilities from the Mario and Luigi games incorporated into their movesets if they wanted to represent more from the RPG spin-offs, if they add any more Mario characters (which they really don't need to) I'd like to see Bowser, Jr. and Rosalina.

Yeah that would be awesome too. Haven't played an M&L game extensively since the first one but I remember they had some awesome moves in that game...didn't Luigi use lightning for one of his attacks? lol

 

[Starbound]

Any Newcomer > Dr. Mario

Except for that floating doctor from Brain Age.

 

[Deleted member]

It was in an interview around the time Smash 4 was first announced, I gave up trying to find the link because it's buried under all the more recent stories, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

We have all interviews, all information, etc. in a nice convenient thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-development-history-updated-7-9.324410/

Nowhere has Sakurai said anything remotely similar to "no clones".

 

[BluePikmin11]

Except for that floating doctor from Brain Age.

You obviously don't see the uniqueness behind Dr. Kawashima.

 

[Deleted member]

Any Newcomer > Dr. Mario

So Dr. Wario > Dr. Mario?

 

[Arcadenik]

Nowhere has Sakurai said anything remotely similar to "no clones".

I think the "no clones" thing was interpreted from how Sakurai wants to add the characters who he thinks are very unique... like Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer.

Clone =/= Unique, you know?

 

[Starbound]

You obviously don't see the uniqueness behind Dr. Kawashima.

Not all uniqueness is good.

Like being a floating head.

 

[ChronoBound]

Not at all really. Well potentially. Both franchises are most likely having a character added, and like in Brawl, they are going to have to prioritize. Which means some characters will be lower priority. These characters have a chance of being cut, just how Mewtwo and Roy were.

I really wonder what is going to happen with Smash Bros. speculation if both Zoroark and Chrom don't make it in.

I hope at the very least Game Freak and Intelligent Systems use it as a lesson to make more original posterboys in the future.

Toon Link also shows that you don't necessarily have to be the most recent start to get in (ALBW Link is technically the most recent incarnation of "child" Link now).

 

[deadjames]

Yeah that would be awesome too. Haven't played an M&L game extensively since the first one but I remember they had some awesome moves in that game...didn't Luigi use lightning for one of his attacks? lol

Yeah, he had a lightning glove and Mario had a fire one, they're all really good, I've been playing through Dream Team and there would be a plethora of material to work with from that Partners in Time was also really good, but on Bowser's Inside Story playing as the Mario Bros. was kind of bland, they basically just rehashed all of their abilities from Partners in Time except without the Baby Mario Bros., Bowser was the only character who was really fun to play on that one.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Keep in mind Dr. Mario is a very well received, mained, and classic Character that people and Sakurai seemed to like. He COULD definitely return if Sakurai has time at the end to add him since he's not hard to program.

Who wants to discuss this roster in great detail?

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

If they brought back Dr. Mario with his original Melee down+B , and some more luigi-fied tweaks, he'd be different enough from Mario with F.L.U.D.D. so I wouldn't mind.

Keep in mind Dr. Mario is a very well received, mained, and classic Character that people and Sakurai seemed to like. He COULD definitely return if Sakurai has time at the end to add him since he's not hard to program.

Who wants to discuss this roster in great detail?

I really like how you put Zero Suit Samus in her own slot. I do that on my roster, but it's not very common. I'd personally like very much for them to be separate characters. So nice job

edit2: Also 10 points for adding Palutena haha

 

[Deleted member]

Star brought this up yesterday, but I'm sure there is a reason Sakurai has brought up Sonic in interviews about 3rd parties, but not Snake..

Considering that Sonic was much bigger of a third-party than Snake, I'm not hard pressed to agree that if any guest returns, it will be Sonic. Snake will only return if we get four third-parties, which is unlikely.

Major problems with this

• You only cut ONE character. Sakurai isn't just going to cut 1 character that is not fair or logical in the slightest.
• Why on earth would he have just enough time so that he only had to cut one character?
• It's completely unfair to cut 1 third-party and not the other
• Why does Wolf have everything going for him? He's a great addition and would suck entirely to see him leave, but you have to make hard choices which are never going to be the ones you want.

- How is that not fair or logical? If Toon Link's inclusion and Sakurai's resistance to cut is any indication, it is very possible that the roster goes without any cuts to Nintendo characters (since there's not any reason to cut any unconfirmed Nintendo veteran for reasons other than time constraints).
- Because Sakurai is going to do everything he can to keep veterans in and the cast is much stronger than that of Melee.
- And why is that? Sonic is by far the more liked third-party. If it came between cutting Snake and cutting Sonic, Sakurai would cut Snake. That's not to say Sonic is guarantee, but the circumstance with Snake and Sonic are not the same.
- More has to do with Wolf being a mainstay character and that I don't see a situation in which Star Fox drops to two or Krystal out prioritize Wolf. Plus he obviously doesn't have to worry about technical issues, I see no circumstance in which we get more than four cuts and there are already five characters that would sooner get cut than Wolf (Snake, Sonic, Ike, Lucario and Pokémon Trainer).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You obviously don't see the uniqueness behind Dr. Kawashima.

Not yet. Hold on, let me put on my Drunk Glasses.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not all uniqueness is good.

Like being a floating head.

Personally, I think being a floating Andross head who is a professor is so unique. Attack of education!

 

[Reznor]

Here we go again. You can't claim Sakurai doesn't care about having at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, he cares about many things we consider little and it affects the roster, so it's way more logical in every way to have at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, I'm shocked and urked that people convince themselves otherwise. Also how is Mewtwo more relevant than Lucario!?!?!? Lucario is equally irrelevant! And yes there is competition between the 2 because they are close to the same amount of popularity, all that has changed for Mewtwo is an X form and a movie. Most people don't take these things into consideration and immediately jump to dumb things like "Jiggs is immune, Toon Link is low priority, Gen 1 is okay with me so it's okay with Sakurai because their iconic." Having only gen 1 is representing Pokemon horribly and Lucario has way more advantage over jigglypuff. If you can believe being Smash 64 makes you priority you can believe that something much more logicial such as being different gen gives you priority, as if Lucario didn't have major priority in the first place.

Lucario also has a lot to due with Pokemon right now too and it doesn't make any sense for Sakurai to make the exact same mistake he made in Brawl.

Gamefreak is advertising the hell out of Mewtwo right now and its mega evolutions so its safe to say mewtwo is going to be important in X/Y making him more relevant than Lucario

I doubt Lucario will get cut though

 

[Hotfeet444]

Here we go again. You can't claim Sakurai doesn't care about having at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, he cares about many things we consider little and it affects the roster, so it's way more logical in every way to have at least 1 Pokemon that isn't gen 1, I'm shocked and urked that people convince themselves otherwise.

I never said Sakurai doesn't care, what I said was that these pokemon are very relevant at this point even though they're from Gen 1. Pikachu is Pikachu, The Pokemon Trainer has an anime based off him and all his starters are available in Gen 6 AND have Mega Evolutions, Jigglypuff is now Smash Bros' embodiment of the new type, and Mewtwo is basically Mewtwo, the big bad poster boy who is the frontrunner for Mega Evolutions, has a new movie, and two new forms to lead said front. And if it has to come down to four pokemon, these are the four that will be chosen.

Also how is Mewtwo more relevant than Lucario!?!?!? Lucario is equally irrelevant! And yes there is competition between the 2 because they are close to the same amount of popularity, all that has changed for Mewtwo is an X form and a movie.

Mewtwo is by far more popular than Lucario, there is absolutely no contest. Have you ever seen a popularity chart where Lucario tops Mewtwo? No? Didn't think so. Also, Mewtwo has always been incredibly popular, both sides of the world, and if Lucario were to be dropped, the backlash wouldn't be nearly half as bad as the Mewtwo backlash.

Most people don't take these things into consideration and immediately jump to dumb things like "Jiggs is immune, Toon Link is low priority, Gen 1 is okay with me so it's okay with Sakurai because their iconic." Having only gen 1 is representing Pokemon horribly and Lucario has way more advantage over jigglypuff.

No, I don't think that, that's not only being close-minded, it's practically putting words in my mouth. In what way is only Gen 1 representing Pokemon horribly, especially if said pokemon are still relevant and still referencing the current Gens of this day, and in what universe is Lucario more important than Jigglypuff? You're basically contradicting your own statement of people thinking Toon Link was low priority, you think Jiggs is low priority so Lucario has more importance, and it doesn't work like that.

If you can believe being Smash 64 makes you priority you can believe that something much more logicial such as being different gen gives you priority, as if Lucario didn't have major priority in the first place.

Of all Pokemon vets right now, Lucario is dead last in importance, especially since the Mega Form he has is overshadowed by Mewtwo's two forms, and the fact that he has no connections to the new type like Jigglypuff. Lucario has only appeared in a couple of commercials, that's all, that's barely anything.

Lucario also has a lot to due with Pokemon right now too and it doesn't make any sense for Sakurai to make the exact same mistake he made in Brawl.

His importance is still lower than that of Pikachu, Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Pokemon Trainer. And again, it's okay if the pokemon that replaces is much more popular, which it is. After all, Lucario replaced Pichu, not Mewtwo, and people were perfectly content with it as I'd expect.

 

[Shorts]

It doesn't have to do with Chrom and Zoroark. It could be Mewtwo and Roy. The point is, characters being added always puts older characters at risk of being cut.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not yet. Hold on, let me put on my Drunk Glasses.

Explain the wrongness of Kawashima, besides the non existent real life issue.

 

[ChronoBound]

Who wants to discuss this roster in great detail?
View attachment 2734

I really like that roster (with the exception of no Ridley) and it seems like a good prospect of what will happen.

Minor quibbles:
- Zero Suit Samus should be packed-in with Samus
- Use the extra slot from ZSS and give it to Ridley

However, in terms of realism, I think Pac-Man is going to be in.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

You people obviously don't understand the uniqueness behind a generic real life puppy.

----

 

[Xhampi]

I think the "no clones" thing was interpreted from how Sakurai wants to add the characters who he thinks are very unique... like Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer.


Clone =/= Unique, you know?

The "no clone" was obviously referring to the Ridley clone from Metroid Other M.

Ridley deconfirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the "no clones" thing was interpreted from how Sakurai wants to add the characters who he thinks are very unique... like Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer.

Clone =/= Unique, you know?

And you know as well as I do that the way he defines unique =/= the way fans do.
Literally, the best example is Toon Link since his reveal started this convo; Toon Link may have moves similar to Link, but Toon Link can't really be played the same nor do they have the same attributes.

 

[Hotfeet444]

ASSUMING we get no cuts... we have 35 veteran slots already plus 3 newcomer slots so far... so we have a total of 38 character slots.

IF there are 45 slots... then there are 7 unconfirmed newcomers. Who do you think they might be?

IF there are 50 slots... then there are 12 unconfirmed newcomers. Who do you think they might be?

For 45: Mewtwo, Ridley, K.Rool, Little Mac, Shulk, Bowser Jr, Takamaru
For 50: Mewtwo, Ridley, K.Rool, Little Mac, Shulk, Bowser Jr, Takamaru, Mii, Chrom, Isaac, Palutena, Toon Zelda/Tetra