Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[deadjames]

I love how Sakurai said he doesn't want any clones in Smash 4 yet Luigi's and Toon Link's movesets are as of yet completely unchanged, and over half of their moves are the same as Mario's and Link's respectively just with different properties, apparently that's not enough for him to consider them clones.

 

[Arcadenik]

Or just make him unique.

This. But you know, Sakurai and his stupid rule about how child Links having to be the same as adult Links.

I wish they gave Toon Link something new like Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Fire & Ice Arrows, and maybe Four Swords (Final Smash).

 

[TumblrFamous]

If we have to wait for new games to come out, we're not going to see Captain Falcon or another Starfox character in this game soon =/

Well, I'm sure there won't be big things coming out EVERY month. I'm sure they would just put in a character every now and then regardless of promotions or anniversaries.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Except he is. It's completely unreasonable in every way. Why would Sakurai make the exact same mistake he made in Brawl,? Why would he remove such an incredibly popular character and leave us with a roster of only Gen 1 Pokemon? It's completely illogical and unreasonable in every respect.

Because unlike between Melee and Brawl, he's being replaced with a much more famous, much more popular, much more wanted, and much more relevant Pokemon than the one who was already in. There is no competition between the popularity of Mewtwo and Lucario, Mewtwo crushes him under his three-toed foot.

And no, a Roster of Gen 1 pokemon is not illogical, especially when all said pokemon have something important to do with what's going on in Pokemon right now.

 

[?????????????]

Or just make him unique.

That's what I say.

I think Toon Link TOTALLY makes sense from a standpoint of representing the series, hence why I've never removed him from my rosters. However, SINCE he's going to be there for that reason, they might as well make noticeable differences between him and Link because they can.

 

[Autumn ♫]

As expected, my subs are pretty split on Toon Link's confirmation. Half of them are like, "yes, I knew it" and the other half are like "slot could've been used for a new original Zelda character...".

I'm kind of a mix of both, I'm glad that my favorite character is back, but I'd like a more original character too though. Hopefully his A-attacks have changed some.

 

[Starbound]

I think that if we get a character to tie in with X/Y, it's going to be Mewtwo because he's been very prevalent with the launch of XY, appearing on the boxart. We don't know in what capacity Jigglypuff appears in XY, and the Kanto Pokemon Trainer would certainly be an odd way to advertise XY with "Want to learn more about Pokemon Trainer? Check out the official website for Pokemon X and Pokemon Y!".

I guess Pokemon Trainer does make some sense because the Kanto starters are available in the game.

 

[Gune]

Totally called it here goes the Lucario, Ike, and wolf are the most reasonable cuts/low prioritystuff...

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I think we need to stop discussing cuts, as of this whole Toon Link thing. When people talked about cuts and Smash 4, literally the first character to be brought up was Toon Link.

I really think today shows that we shouldn't expect cuts. That's where this whole mentality of "someone HAS to get cut" comes from. I think Sakurai really wants to bring everyone back (from Brawl).

In fact, the only character who was ever TRULY cut was Pichu. SSE/Sonic development, I feel, sacrificed the "Forbidden 7". So to "expect" cuts this time around is silly I think, especially now that we've see Toon Link is back. Now I'm not saying getting our hopes up, but we shouldn't be holding discussions on "who is on the chopping block" because the only game so far that had "cuts" was brawl, and those weren't direct cuts, those were time constraint issues.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I love how Sakurai said he doesn't want any clones in Smash 4...

WHEN?

"slot could've been used for a new original Zelda character...".

Tell those people to shut their god damn mouths!

 

[Curious Villager]

You know, we might get some further updates in regards to Toon Link's moveset in some of the daily pics down the line. For all we know, he might be able to shoot Ice and Fire arrows along with his regular arrows, perform the Hurricane Spin on land and use Bomb-Chu's along with regular bombs down the line. Sure it's not too much but hey, it's a start.... :T

 

[Shorts]

This. But you know, Sakurai and his stupid rule about how child Links having to be the same as adult Links.

Sakurai has a lot of stupid rules though.

Tell those people to shut their god damn mouths!

No one likes Toon Stink being a semi-clone.

 

[?????????????]

I love how Sakurai said he doesn't want any clones in Smash 4 yet Luigi's and Toon Link's movesets are as of yet completely unchanged, and over half of their moves are the same as Mario's and Link's respectively just with different properties, apparently that's not enough for him to consider them clones.

I don't think Sakurai ever said "no clones." Regardless, they aren't literal clones because they do have differences (even if they have many similarities). Furthermore, we have yet to see the extent of Luigi and Toon Link's movesets in SSB4.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Major problems with this

• You only cut ONE character. Sakurai isn't just going to cut 1 character that is not fair or logical in the slightest.
• Why on earth would he have just enough time so that he only had to cut one character?
• It's completely unfair to cut 1 third-party and not the other

The only reason I see snake going is if Konami or whatever doesn't agree to add him again but honestly...
You can call bull**** on my theory that no one responded to but I don't find no cuts to be looking that unreasonable this time around
In this context Snake would be more of a special case...
Oh yes, IF JIGGLYPUFF LEAVES THEN LUCARIO SHOULD TOO!!!!!! You do realize Sonic has a lot more going for him then snake right?

 

[Deleted member]

I love how Sakurai said he doesn't want any clones in Smash 4

When was this, pray tell?

 

[deadjames]

I think Snake is the most vulnerable character to be cut. For Nintendo characters, its probably Ike followed by Lucario. Wolf or Lucas may be bumped out due to time constraints, while Ice Climbers may be cut (or butchered to be stand alone) due to 3DS hardware problems.

You seem to be forgetting that Sakurai and Kojima are close friends, whereas Sega had practically been begging him to put Sonic in since Melee, if any third party character is going to get cut it will be Sonic.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai has a lot of stupid rules though.

It is also why I dread Toon Zelda... and Toon Sheik... I don't want two Zeldas and two Sheiks and both having the same movesets.

If people thought three Landmasters in Brawl were bad enough, imagine FOUR Light Arrows in SSB4.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You know, we might get some further updates in regards to Toon Link's moveset in some of the daily pics down the line. For all we know, he might be able to shoot Ice and Fire arrows along with his regular arrows, perform the Hurricane Spin on land and use Bomb-Chu's along with regular bombs down the line. Sure it's not too much but hey, it's a start.... :T

These are all incredibly great ideas, but we'd have to assume that Sakurai would change move sets after completing the original. My assumption is that he won't.

When people talked about cuts and Smash 4, literally the first character to be brought up was Toon Link.

Ignorance....

 

[TumblrFamous]

Because unlike between Melee and Brawl, he's being replaced with a much more famous, much more popular, much more wanted, and much more relevant Pokemon than the one who was already in. There is no competition between the popularity of Mewtwo and Lucario, Mewtwo crushes him under his three-toed foot.

And no, a Roster of Gen 1 pokemon is not illogical, especially when all said pokemon have something important to do with what's going on in Pokemon right now.

Yeah, we didn't have a full Gen 1 roster in Melee and Brawl, but it is certainly logical. All 4 gen 1 reps have something going for them. Pikachu is Pikachu, the Kanto Trainer's starters are relevant again, and he has an anime coming out, Jigglypuff is being promoted as a Fairy Type, which does make her at least a bit more relevant, and Mewtwo is certainly Mewtwo at this point.

 

[?????????????]

Y'know what? It started as a wish, but I think we really may see every Brawl character return. I think it's a possibility.

On a more specific note, I could totally see both Snake and Sonic returning.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think all of the Pokemon veterans from Brawl (along with Mewtwo) are safe so long as Game Freak doesn't have any other Pokemon newcomers in mind. There really isn't any good choices for a Pokemon newcomer aside from Mewtwo (who could also be labelled as a veteran as well).

 

[?????????????]

I think all of the Pokemon veterans from Brawl (along with Mewtwo) are safe so long as Game Freak doesn't have any other Pokemon newcomers in mind. There really isn't any good choices for a Pokemon newcomer aside from Mewtwo (who could also be labelled as a veteran as well).

Well...they might want to promote Blaziken. I don't think they'd REALLY press it that hard, but it was something I was thinking about...

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

It is also why I dread Toon Zelda... and Toon Sheik... I don't want two Zeldas and two Sheiks and both having the same movesets.

If people thought three Landmasters in Brawl were bad enough, imagine FOUR Light Arrows in SSB4.

Toon Shiek instead of Tetra....

 

[ChronoBound]

You seem to be forgetting that Sakurai and Kojima are close friends, whereas Sega had practically been begging him to put Sonic in since Melee, if any third party character is going to get cut it will be Sonic.

Sega has expressed interest in seeing Sonic return, and there are still Nintendo console exclusive Sonic games being made.

I think its quite possible Kojima was satisfied with Snake being in Brawl, and left it at that. Keep in mind the whole reason why Kojima ever wanted Snake in Brawl was so that his son could play a game with a character that he created.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

You seem to be forgetting that Sakurai and Kojima are close friends, whereas Sega had practically been begging him to put Sonic in since Melee, if any third party character is going to get cut it will be Sonic.

All the more likely that Snake is a one time deal. Wasn't Sonic also almost in Melee too, but it was too close to the end of development to put him in? I don't think they're on their knees begging, I think Sonic is easily accessible.

With Snake, it could be "oh that's great you put him in Brawl! haha Thank you!" and that's it. Unless Sakurai feels Snake should stay, I don't see Kojima asking him again..

 

[Starbound]

I love how Sakurai said he doesn't want any clones in Smash 4 yet Luigi's and Toon Link's movesets are as of yet completely unchanged

Luigi is a clone o.O?

 

[MargnetMan23]

Well...they might want to promote Blaziken. I don't think they'd REALLY press it that hard, but it was something I was thinking about...

*sigh* I'm not here for redundancy but I'd be pissed if that happened. Good thing it's probably not happening

 

[SaikyoBro]

Y'know what? It started as a wish, but I think we really may see every Brawl character return. I think it's a possibility.

On a more specific note, I could totally see both Snake and Sonic returning.

I agree! I think Toon Link was in the most danger (besides possibly Ike or Lucario) and seeing him revealed so early on gives me confidence that not only will the roster be large, but they aren't going to be dropping veterans willy nilly just because they can.

Not to say there won't be any cuts, but I'm starting to think it's definitely a good possibility that the Brawl roster will stick around.

 

[ChronoBound]

Toon Shiek instead of Tetra....

The only merit at all to Toon Sheik getting in would be to see Diddy Kong's reaction...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't really think Snake is first to go, but he is low priority. That's based off of my reasoning about his friendship with Kojima. I guess it just really depends on if Kojima wants him to stay and how Sakurai feels about that. I mean honestly, from the interview where he mentioned Snake and Sonic being a success, it really makes me think that if Sonic stays, that Snake will stay.

At this point, I think it's tough to determine who will be cut. I think it's fair to say that being a clone doesn't necessarily make you a target for being cut, but moreso for a moveset change (looking at you Falco and Ganondorf). So it's all a matter of what a character means to the game, and the series that they represent.

Wolf is important to Star Fox as a suitable playable villain. He has appeared several times, in basically every title (I think the only one he didn't was...Adventures?) He is already pretty different from Fox, so if Falco has a new moveset, all three are essentially unique.

Ike is important to Fire Emblem as a Lord that stands out based on his popularity, and his representation of Fire Emblem in the West. He has a very unique playstyle, and could be considered a representation of the console Fire Emblems, in which he appeared as a main character twice. Honestly, I don't think we'll see him leave. But if he does, and there is DLC, he'll be back.

Lucas is the main character of Mother 3, and plays very similarly to Ness. Honestly, I could absolutely see him getting cut. Don't ask me why, but I could definitely see it. However, I could also see him getting a different moveset. He will not be replaced by a different Mother character. It's either him and Ness, or just Ness.

Lucario is a very popular Pokemon who is important to Game Freak and The Pokemon Company. He has a unique moveset, and has remained important to Pokemon since his debut. He COULD leave, but leaving the roster with all Gen 1 characters isn't a very good representation of a series with 700+ Pokemon. I think he'll stay, and we'll gain Mewtwo.

Ice Climbers i'm positive will stay.

Pokemon Trainer, I personally think, may be low on the totem pole. If they have technical problems in trying to get him to work, then I could see him leave, and I don't know that I would honestly be all that upset. It's a cool character idea, but I honestly don't care if he gets cut.

 

[Shorts]

It is also why I dread Toon Zelda... and Toon Sheik... I don't want two Zeldas and two Sheiks and both having the same movesets.

If people thought three Landmasters in Brawl were bad enough, imagine FOUR Light Arrows in SSB4.

Seriously. Sakurai loves using ideas he scrapped from previous games. Toon Zelda is a definite possibility. Which is just... dreadful.

 

[deadjames]

When was this, pray tell?

It was in an interview around the time Smash 4 was first announced, I gave up trying to find the link because it's buried under all the more recent stories, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[?????????????]

Seriously. Sakurai loves using ideas he scrapped from previous games. Toon Zelda is a definite possibility. Which is just... dreadful.

I'd be okay with AS LONG AS it's focused on Tetra, and Tetra is a new, original character.

 

[deadjames]

When was this, pray tell?

It was in an interview around the time Smash 4 was first announced, I gave up trying to find the link because it's buried under all the more recent stories, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Y'know what? It started as a wish, but I think we really may see every Brawl character return. I think it's a possibility.

On a more specific note, I could totally see both Snake and Sonic returning.

I agree, I think Sakurai is really going to make an effort to return all of Brawl. It's certainly possible.

But the question is: if we do get all of those 35 Brawl slots back, how many slots will be for newcomers? I mean, we have 38 slots filled now, there might be one random, which could be 38-39 already. Any thoughts on how much it will go up? Because I'm a bit worried there won't be that many.

Don't get me wrong, gameplay and overall cleanliness is so much more important, but come on. The one thing people hype for the most is new characters.

 

[Shorts]

I think all of the Pokemon veterans from Brawl (along with Mewtwo) are safe so long as Game Freak doesn't have any other Pokemon newcomers in mind. There really isn't any good choices for a Pokemon newcomer aside from Mewtwo (who could also be labelled as a veteran as well).

Kind of like how Mewtwo and Roy were safe in Brawl? And FE only had one newcomer, and one other veteran. I don't think you can really say this confidently... at all.

I'd be okay with AS LONG AS it's focused on Tetra, and Tetra is a new, original character.

Toon Shiek...

 

[?????????????]

I agree, I think Sakurai is really going to make an effort to return all of Brawl. It's certainly possible.

But the question is: if we do get all of those 35 Brawl slots back, how many slots will be for newcomers? I mean, we have 38 slots filled now, there might be one random, which could be 38-39 already. Any thoughts on how much it will go up? Because I'm a bit worried there won't be that many.

Don't get me wrong, gameplay and overall cleanliness is so much more important, but come on. The one thing people hype for the most is new characters.

Of course. I'm still sticking to 45-50 total. Hoping for somewhere in the middle.

 

[Tenguman]

Some points

-16 confirmed characters
-ness, c.falcon, yoshi, jiggly not confirmed yet but will most likely be in.
-roster size will be smaller than brawl, probably around melee's size or slightly bigger
-factor in upcoming titles: DK tropical freeze, sonic lost worlds, pokemon x/y, fire emblem awakening.

so from these points, we have

16 (confirmed) + 4 (originals) + 5 (characters from upcoming titles) brings the total so far to 25 give or take a few, if you add zelda/sheik it brings it to 27

remember, nintendo wants characters in that will show up in upcoming titles, its like what marvel did with MvC3 they added some characters that came out with movies.

so we can assume we will be getting sonic, another donkey kong character either diddy or ditzy, 1 more fire emblem character, and obviously a character from pokemon x/y.

roster will be somewhere between melee and brawl 26-38.

my prediction: there will be 5 more new characters and the rest will be returning characters.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Toon Shiek instead of Tetra....

Ugh, the only thing more disgusting than that is the improper spelling of Sheik.

 

[ChronoBound]

I agree, I think Sakurai is really going to make an effort to return all of Brawl. It's certainly possible.

That also includes Melee cuts. At the very least Sakurai was intending to bring back Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario for Brawl.

I think Mewtwo is virtually guaranteed, and Roy has a good shot.

Also, people shouldn't be too surprised if Dr. Mario returns (even if we get a Mario newcomer confirmed in November or December, Dr. Mario would still be feasible as a last minute boost to the roster).