Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[YoshiandToad]

I think you meant protagonist for Yoshi actually.

Being a secondary character by no means diminishes their 'main'ness, a good series cannot survive without a decent supporting cast after all.

But you'd be underselling Toad if you think all those playable appearence of recent mean he's not also becoming 'main' within the Mario franchise.

For some reason I can't edit; but disregard the Yoshi bit. I see everyone beat me to that.

 

[Morbi]

I think you meant protagonist for Yoshi actually.

Being a secondary character by no means diminishes their 'main'ness, a good series cannot survive without a decent supporting cast after all.

But you'd be underselling Toad if you think all those playable appearence of recent mean he's not also becoming 'main' within the Mario franchise.

I just realized your username is YoshiandToad. The bias is emanating from you!

 

[Depressed Gengar]

In terms of double characters, it really depends. If they're important, popular, and have a wide variety of moveset possibilities (a la Paper Mario and Toon Link), then yes. If they're boring old characters that aren't relevant (a la Dr. Mario and Young link), then no.

 

[Silverjay323]

I feel like two versions of the same character inevitably nerfs their potential. Link/TL for example. In order to place an emphasis on Toon Link's abilities, Link was made slower and nerfed his already ****ty recovery to one of the worst in the game. I feel like its better to grant these qualities on one incarnation of the character to better performance rather than create trade offs.

 

[CalumG]

Need I say more?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I feel like two versions of the same character inevitably nerfs their potential. Link/TL for example. In order to place an emphasis on Toon Link's abilities, Link was made slower and nerfed his already ****ty recovery to one of the worst in the game. I feel like its better to grant these qualities on one incarnation of the character to better performance rather than create trade offs.

As much as it pains me to say, I would rather have a buffed Link than two Links with one being significantly better than the other.

 

[Bajef8]

I think you meant protagonist for Yoshi actually.

Being a secondary character by no means diminishes their 'main'ness, a good series cannot survive without a decent supporting cast after all.

But you'd be underselling Toad if you think all those playable appearence of recent mean he's not also becoming 'main' within the Mario franchise.

Right but don't undersell Jr. either. I'm just trying to argue that Jr. is becoming more vastly important to Mario than Toad ever did just...standing around and stuff in most games. I think Mario would survive without Jr. or Toad, but I think Jr. just outweighs Toad in importance.

Also dat Newt Scamander movie doe...super pumped. Anyways....Smash stuff, Smash stuff, <insert Mario character argument here>

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Far from it. I just wonder what's the point in wasting game development time on something so slapdash? Just leave it out, and no one will claim the roster has any filler. If anything I'm asking for less quantity.

Because it's not slapdash. It's called being "unique" with your roster. Adding twists and representing more than expected. It's good for characters that have multiple important/iconic forms.

Like I said, some people just want a 100 character roster with no clones, no personas, no similarities. It's called being a spoiled ***** in those cases. What they forget is that representing these personas is important, unique, and creative.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel like two versions of the same character inevitably nerfs their potential. Link/TL for example. In order to place an emphasis on Toon Link's abilities, Link was made slower and nerfed his already ****ty recovery to one of the worst in the game. I feel like its better to grant these qualities on one incarnation of the character to better performance rather than create trade offs.

But Toon Link is their to represent the toon side of Zelda such as Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, and a few others.
I hope Toon Link is different from Link this time.

 

[Bajef8]

As much as it pains me to say, I would rather have a buffed Link than two Links with one being significantly better than the other.

Take the ole Zelda solution and give him the ole Down-B Time Warp/Art style change transformation into Young/Toon Link haha. Give us a 2 for 1.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I just realized your username is YoshiandToad. The bias is emanating from you!

Yes. You see by creating a surge in Toad related posts I hoped to alter reality to fit my own bidding and desires; Toad to be in Smash 4, Geno to be forgotten about completely and for Shadow the Hedgehog to be erased from the sands of time. My plan was fool proof; all I had to do was close my eyes and type furiously away at a computer, ignoring all logical arguements that counter Toad's chances being in, whilst simultaneously boosting up likes for individuals who agreed with my selfish wants for a newcomer and providing posts that were for the most part agreeable.

By doing that I would work my way up the Smashboards community and eventually have as much influence as the Ridley and K. Rool supporters have within these boards, after which I would merely suggest the chance that the smash community would start up a Kickstarter account to create a game where the forgotten, but wanted Smash Bros. potential newcomers could flourish. Sakurai would surely take note of this and remember Ridley, K. Rool and Toad for the next Smash game seeing at how insanely popular these characters became due to the community influence.

And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling Smashers.



(but yes I guess I am a little bit of a Toad supporter)

 

[Morbi]

Because it's not slapdash. It's called being "unique" with your roster. Adding twists and representing more than expected. It's good for characters that have multiple important/iconic forms.

Yes. Just like in a Dragon Ball Z game. We need Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku, SSJ4 Goku, Kid Goku, Kid Goku SSJ, Dragon Ball Goku, Kid Goku SSJ2, Kid Goku SS3, and Ape Goku. It wouldn't be the same with just one Goku.

Funny thing is... I was trying to be sarcastic. After I thought about it... one Goku wouldn't cut it. At some point you have to draw the line though.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

"Wah, Toad's deconfirmed now!"
"Wah, Luigi's no longer a hidden character!"
"Wah, Olimar only has three Pikmin now!"
"Wah, Wii Fit Trainer being playable means ANYONE can be playable now!"

There's controversy over every character reveal, it seems. Peach is no different. Her mere reveal has gotten the entire community frenzied over Toad, and I'm not surprised in the least. If anything, I'm just waiting to hear about "Waddle Dee de-confirmed!" when King Dedede is revealed, or "Sheik is being replaced by Impa!" when Zelda makes a reveal by herself (which happened on the Brawl Dojo).

This is going to happen every time a character is revealed. The best we can do is not have a friggin' seizure over it every time it does.

Also, simply to open a can of worms for the sake of opening a can of worms, Toad won't be playable, Luigi is still hidden, Olimar indeed only has three Pikmin, and Wii Fit Trainer is not an excuse to support your shoddy one-off characters.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You could have a character that is a pink blob with machine guns and flame throwers, but if it's technically Donkey Kong then let the fans' ******** begin.

Really? Because he's all but stopped showing up in Zelda games since he got his own spin-off series, bar a few visual cameos and remakes of older games. It's pretty much exactly the case that it was with the Mario spinoffs.

Because it's Zelda. Not Mario, the face of the company. Those spin offs are VERY well known spin offs.

 

[TheTuninator]

Toad may not have been explicitly deconfirmed by Sakurai, but his presence as Peach's living shield once more effectively torpedoes his chances of being playable. Sakurai's implementation of Toad in Peach's moveset indicates that he thinks of Toad as a move, not a character.

Peach's moveset could change, but I'm doubtful that Sakurai is still that uncertain on the roster at this point.

 

[Silverjay323]

"Wah, Toad's deconfirmed now!"
"Wah, Luigi's no longer a hidden character!"
"Wah, Olimar only has three Pikmin now!"
"Wah, Wii Fit Trainer being playable means ANYONE can be playable now!"

There's controversy over every character reveal, it seems. Peach is no different. Her mere reveal has gotten the entire community frenzied over Toad, and I'm not surprised in the least. If anything, I'm just waiting to hear about "Waddle Dee de-confirmed!" when King Dedede is revealed, or "Sheik is being replaced by Impa!" when Zelda makes a reveal by herself (which happened on the Brawl Dojo).

This is going to happen every time a character is revealed. The best we can do is not have a friggin' seizure over it every time it does.

Also, simply to open a can of worms for the sake of opening a can of worms, Toad won't be playable, Luigi is still hidden, Olimar indeed only has three Pikmin, and Wii Fit Trainer is not an excuse to support your shoddy one-off characters.

So I guess we've agreed to stay away from the Pyrosphere fiasco then?

 

[CalumG]

Also, simply to open a can of worms for the sake of opening a can of worms, Toad won't be playable, Luigi is still hidden, Olimar indeed only has three Pikmin, and Wii Fit Trainer is not an excuse to support your shoddy one-off characters.

but we need playable nintendog hes obviously the most deserving

gosh

you filthy casual

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

So I guess we've agreed to stay away from the Pyrosphere fiasco then?

As fun as it is to talk about it, I'd be a bigger dunce to talk about it again than being DevineDeity using homophobia as a reason to exclude Ness and Lucas from SSB4.

but we need playable nintendog hes obviously the most deserving

gosh

you filthy casual

r00d

you hurt my feels yo

 

[ChronoBound]

Speaking of Tingle discussion....

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Peach's moveset could change, but I'm doubtful that Sakurai is still that uncertain on the roster at this point.

"So much open mindedness in the wrong place."

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not going to say "OMG, TOAD IZ DISCONFIRMED!" but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't pessimistic. I want him to be playable, I really do, but I really do think that the picture indicates Sakurai's choice on Toad. Which is a shame considering that he'd be the best choice for a newcomer. At least there Bowser Jr., Paper Mario or Dr. Mario...

People were expecting Peach to be confirmed early on. Its just that most people were expecting it to happen in November or December (to coincide with the release of Super Mario 3D World). So it just happened 2-3 months earlier than expected.

I know that, but it is still worth mentioning. In the trailer, we got Mario and Bowser, which isn't too unusual. Then in August, we were hit with Luigi, who was generally expected to be a hidden reveal. Finally, September rolls around and we got Peach. I'm not saying this means we're getting a Mario newcomer, but it did get my attention.

I think Paper Mario is more likely to happen than Bowser Jr. assuming Toad is out (which I don't think he is). Bowser Jr. feels like a newcomer in a similar vein as Toon Link and Wolf, a luigi-fied character that is among the last characters added to the game.

That's actually something Bowser Jr. has going for him; the fact that he would work well as either a semi-clone or an unique character. So if Sakurai decides to squeeze in a last minute character, Bowser Jr. is a viable option. You can't really say the same for Toad.

We get either a Pokemon veteran (Mewtwo included) or Sonic next month.

November is likely Zelda (if not, then a Mario newcomer to coincide with 3D World), while December is Diddy Kong.

My bet is on a Pokémon veteran next month. I have a feeling that Sonic will be saved for much later if he returns and as a result, there will be a panic attack in the community when he is not confirmed in October.

I actually think its a realistic possibility that we end up with no Ridley, no Mario newcomer, and no DK newcomer. If so, I wonder how the Smash Bros. fanbase would take it.

I mean, it could end up that the only popularly requested newcomers that end up getting in are Mega Man and Little Mac (and possibly Palutena). Mewtwo is also very likely to return, though he might not be a true newcomer.

Not very well and could potentially hurt sales as well. There's no good excuse not to include Ridley and King K. Rool at this point (let alone entirely exclude a DK newcomer).

It will be hilarious to see all the buttkissing Sakurai will still receive in spite of it. We are already having people say Ridley and Toad were not worthy enough to be playable.

Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics those clowns employ if both K. Rool and Dixie Kong don't make it.

Not directly related, but having seeing Xbox One fanboys defend the DRM policies (when it was in place at the time) and even create a petition to bring back those horrible features has made me loathe synchopants so much.

 

[TheTuninator]

"So much open mindedness in the wrong place."

All I'm saying is that attempts to justify Toad as viable based on the notion that Peach's moveset could change reek of denial.


No K. Rool or Ridley won't hurt SSB4's sales. Brawl sold fantastically well and included neither of those characters despite their popularity.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't see Sonic being revealed till next year. I don't think he's high priority in development right now.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

All I'm saying is that attempts to justify Toad as viable based on the notion that Peach's moveset could change reek of denial.


No K. Rool or Ridley won't hurt SSB4's sales. Brawl sold fantastically well and included neither of those characters despite their popularity.

I personally lean towards more ZS Samus as separate and Dixie over King K. Rool. I think the fact that we have 2 Samusies makes Ridley unnecessary.

 

[Silverjay323]

I don't see Sonic being revealed till next year. I don't think he's high priority in development right now.

B-But Lost World! In actuality, I can't see any 3rd parties being revealed until a few months before launch.

Since people are actually starting to doubt Ridley and K. Rool now, I wonder if the Roy support is still there?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't see Sonic being revealed till next year. I don't think he's high priority in development right now.

Sonic Lost World, Mario & Sonic at the 2012 Olympics? This is the year Sonic would be most priority. But, then again we don't know if Third Parties return.

 

[ChronoBound]

I personally lean towards more ZS Samus as separate and Dixie over King K. Rool. I think the fact that we have 2 Samusies makes Ridley unnecessary.

Ridley is as necessary to representing the Metroid franchise as Ganondorf is to representing the Zelda franchise.

Heck, Ridley even has a better attendance rate in the Metroid series than Ganon/Ganondorf does in the Zelda series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Surprised by the fact that people are not in denial about Toad being debunked like they are with Toon Link. Apparently the rules of multiples only applies to your favorite character.

 

[CalumG]

At this point, if Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo do get deconfirmed, along with the three newcomers we have so far, I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed - I'd just assume that we've been interpreting Smash 4 the wrong way since its reveal, and that it's going to be more about expanding the amount of franchises in Smash, rather than bloating the franchises that are already in it.

Because between Toad, Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo, that would basically be Sakurai giving the shaft to some of the most long-running, popular and iconic characters from franchises within Smash. To be honest, I've had my suspicions since the beginning of Smash 4's development that we've been putting too much stock in expanding the existing franchises in Smash. The Brawl roster has pretty much every main character from the so-called "important" franchises - the only direction I logically see there being left to go in is expanding the amount of franchises (Mii's, Golden Sun character, a new retro, maybe a 3DS character, etc. etc.).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ridley is as necessary to representing the Metroid franchise as Ganondorf is to representing the Zelda franchise.

Heck, Ridley even has a better attendance rate in the Metroid series than Ganon/Ganondorf does in the Zelda series.

In a way he is the Bowser of Metroid. But I think Sakurai sees less priority in Ridley than he does Bowser or Ganondorf and I'm not just saying that because he hasn't appeared yet.

At this point, if Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo do get deconfirmed, along with the three newcomers we have so far, I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed - I'd just assume that we've been interpreting Smash 4 the wrong way since its reveal

I assume that a lot.

 

[N3ON]

Surprised by the fact that people are not in denial about Toad being debunked like they are with Toon Link. Apparently the rules of multiples only applies to your favorite character.

If Peach was holding up a Toad of any colour but the normal variant, people wouldn't be having the same reaction. In fact they'd be proclaiming how Toad was "all but confirmed". It's not the same as conductor Link.

 

[ChronoBound]

I really see no reason for Mewtwo to not show up. Unlike Ridley and K. Rool (and Palutena), he has absolutely NOTHING going against him, and EVERYTHING going for him.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wonder if Kalos Trainer could be DLC...

I really see no reason for Mewtwo to not show up. Unlike Ridley and K. Rool (and Palutena), he has absolutely NOTHING going against him, and EVERYTHING going for him.

Except priority for Lucario, but yeah there is no reason for him not to be in.

If Peach was holding up a Toad of any colour but the normal variant, people wouldn't be having the same reaction. In fact they'd be proclaiming how Toad was "all but confirmed". It's not the same as conductor Link.

That's not entirely true. It'd immediately suggest that, but the fact that a Toad is being used as a human sheild towards another Toad...

EDIT: it could also mean she pulls out several different colors of toad.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Unless Sakurai sees Zoroark as the more unique character. He is definitely the "new" Pokemon of Sakurai's criteria.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Mewtwo is going to outprioritize every other Pokemon veteran to be honest. He is insanely popular in Japan and the West.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Mewtwo is going to outprioritize every other Pokemon veteran to be honest. He is insanely popular in Japan and the West.

I would rather have a new Pokemon than Mewtwo honestly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Mewtwo is going to outprioritize every other Pokemon veteran to be honest. He is insanely popular in Japan and the West.

Yet Lucario is Gen 4 and you'd be removing a Pokemon very close to his popularity. Sakurai wouldn't make that mistake twice in a row.

 

[ChronoBound]

I would rather have a new Pokemon than Mewtwo honestly.

The problem is that no one really wants a new Pokemon. Its really going to be up to the Pokemon Company whether a Pokemon newcomer happens because I think if Sakurai were simply left to his own devices he will just bring back Brawl's Pokemon veterans plus Mewtwo, and simply call it a day from there.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Since people are actually starting to doubt Ridley and K. Rool now, I wonder if the Roy support is still there?

There's a bit of Roy support around still, myself included and of course Chronobound. We're a bit dwarfed by the Awakening rep/Ike supporters, but we're there still cheering our boy on.

 

[CalumG]

I think Mewtwo is going to outprioritize every other Pokemon veteran to be honest. He is insanely popular in Japan and the West.

This. Mewtwo is the most wanted character in Japan if I'm not mistaken, and Ridley the most wanted in the West. Between them being important and insanely popular, these two being deconfirmed would just add more credence to my theory that Sakurai is sticking his middle finger up to expanding the current franchises and just adding new ones instead.

...Which I wouldn't mind to be honest, because then everybody could stop vaginally bleeding over who's going to be the new Fire Emblem/Pokemon reps. Win/win.