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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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CalumG

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Just throwing this one out there; if Paper Mario gets in as a playable, he should be the only character able to do damage to people by Toadstool Jumping, complete with a little damage star coming out of the opponent. :p



Also, I'm not saying that Dr. Mario didn't deserve it - just that his situation isn't really in any way comparable to Paper Mario's.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I think Bowser Jr. has done less to separate himself from Bowser than Paper Mario has from Mario.
I think most would feel that Paper Mario would be "fresher" than Bowser Jr., not to mention it would give the Paper Mario sub-series much more attention within Smash Bros.
I totally agree with this!

I still think Toad would be the best choice all around though, and I think people are being too hasty in writing him off. I said weeks ago that Peach special Toad and playable Toad co-existing was a plausible scenario, and Sakurai had already done a similar thing with ROB in Brawl.
I totally don't agree with this. The fact that Toad himself is being used as a Human Sheild just shows he's not being given much respect. You could argue that Sakurai wants to make him blue because of 3D World, but you don't see Yellow Yoshi's being used as items. It would be way to akward and why on earth would a Toad be a human sheild if one was a playable character. At least Toon Link's great grandson is driving a train like he always does and isn't being used to hit a home run with the Sand Bag.

Anybody who thinks Toad could still get in is clearly not accepting his deconfirmation. This is a serious case of "Tom Nook Syndrome".

Just throwing this one out there; if Paper Mario gets in as a playable, he should be the only character able to do damage to people by Toadstool Jumping, complete with a little damage star coming out of the opponent. :p



Also, I'm not saying that Dr. Mario didn't deserve it - just that his situation isn't really in any way comparable to Paper Mario's.
As an influence ,no. As a character, yes. With the exception that Paper Mario is way more deserving.
 

Morbi

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These are true statements, but every character that has gotten in has deserved it. Pichu was an easy clone, but he was gen 2 as well as maybe the most popular representative from Gold & Silver. He also represented the pre-evolved baby Pokemon. Plus Dr. Mario was planned to return.

This whole Toad being deconfirmed shows that Bowser Jr's spot could easily be taken by Paper Mario.
How does Toad's chances of appearing in a Smash game have any correlation to Bowser Jr's or Paper Mario's hypothetical slot?

Also when did Sakurai de-confirm Toad? I must have missed it during the DDoS.
 

TumblrFamous

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Ew, the inevitable Toad discussion. Well, we'll see. I believe he's all but deconfirmed, but you never know. Maybe this gives more of a boost for Paper Mario or Bowser Jr. But I think we should just wait and see. Maybe Sakurai has some trick up his sleeve. And I'd rather have Toad than Paper Mario (NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE WHO LIKES HIM, I JUST DON'T LIKE HIM. DON'T BE ANGRY AT ME).
 

TheLastJinjo

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How does Toad's chances of appearing in a Smash game have any correlation to Bowser Jr's or Paper Mario's hypothetical slot?

Also when did Sakurai de-confirm Toad? I must have missed it during the DDoS.
Because Toad was more deserving than Bowser Jr yet he's again a human sheild. Bowser Jr being more deserving doesn't necessarily put him over Paper Mario.
 

CalumG

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I fundamentally loathe the idea of having two versions of the same character - Dr. Mario, Young Link and Toon Link - but I also have nothing but thorough dislike for both Bowser Jr. and Waluigi. My hatred for Junior and Waluigi surpasses my annoyance at double characters, so Paper Mario is my guy for the Mario series currently by default. :p
 

TheLastJinjo

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Having another version of a character is a perfect idea for a fighting game actually, or any roster game for that matter.
 

Morbi

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Because Toad was more deserving than Bowser Jr yet he's again a human sheild. Bowser Jr being more deserving doesn't necessarily put him over Paper Mario.
That doesn't make any sense. What if being a meat shield makes you more important? He is protecting Princess Peach, arguably the most important job in Mushroom Kingdom. He is like... Jorah Mormont!

 

TheLastJinjo

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I love how people basically claim characters like Bomberman de confirmed and then go like "Well!- Toad could still get in!" :c
 

CalumG

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Having another version of a character is a perfect idea for a fighting game actually, or any roster game for that matter.
...In your opinion.

I on the other hand believe that one character can be represented by one character. Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zero-Suit work as effective character gimmicks, but I'm of the personal opinion that one Link should represent all Links, for example. Doesn't mean that is necessarily the case or it's something Sakurai himself believes - I just firmly believe that giving two slots to Link (as an example) is a waste of a slot that could be given to someone who... isn't Link.
 

Bajef8

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The fact that Dr. Mario appeared in Melee and was planned in Brawl makes me think Paper Mario is the best way to go. We don't need another main stream representative and Waluigi just doesn't fit in for so many reasons. His status should be Assist Trophy.


Does it matter if he's more important? It didn't matter for Toad and we have 4 main stream characters. Why not one from a different Mario series? Like I say, Dr. Mario was in Melee so I think this makes Paper Mario the most likely.
Couple things. The whole Doc thing is irrelevant for a Paper Mario argument, as pointed out by some people.

I do agree on the Waluigi statement. He's not gonna be a character. He has only appeared in Spin-offs and never even been on an actual Mario game. Or Wario game for that matter. How would you even classify him, Warioware or Mario? He wouldn't make sense under either character because He's always associated with Wario, but not a Warioware character.

Your own statement about Toad is a bit silly. There are 4 main stream character, meaning a 5th is probably the most likely. The big franchises are only repped by "main" characters from their respective series. I never even thought of him as having a chance. I always had Bowser Jr. as the next Mario addition, even Pre-Brawl. Toad isn't a majorly important character in a majorly important series while Jr. has seen a meteoric rise to becoming cemented in as one of the main villains of the franchise next to Bowser. Toad is a supporting character to the series while Jr. is becoming, if not already, one of the main characters.
 

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I love how people basically claim characters like Bomberman de confirmed and then go like "Well!- Toad could still get in!" :c
Well, I will not 100% rule out anything unless it is literally posted by Sakurai that: "Toad is deconfirmed". I think the fact he said that movesets will be changed gives him some sort of chance still.
 

YoshiandToad

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Having another version of a character is a perfect idea for a fighting game actually, or any roster game for that matter.
Strongly disagree with this.

Not so much Paper Mario, but nearly every other fighting game I've played with multiple versions of the same character nearly always screams "filler".

Nothing against the good doctor, but I have no desire to see Dr. Mario return. Toon Link's a different case (at least for me) since technically they're different people, but I'd rather have a Zelda newcomer that isn't a Link as the 4th Zelda slot.
 

Morbi

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I love how people basically claim characters like Bomberman de confirmed and then go like "Well!- Toad could still get in!" :c
Bomberman is a third-party character. Toad is a first-party character that is a prevalent character in Nintendo's most popular franchise. His prominence is important to other party games such as Mario Kart and Mario Party. One move doesn't simply de-confirm a character. Sakurai's intent; however, has a little bit of a more objective effect on the development of the game.

I fundamentally loathe the idea of having two versions of the same character - Dr. Mario, Young Link and Toon Link - but I also have nothing but thorough dislike for both Bowser Jr. and Waluigi. My hatred for Junior and Waluigi surpasses my annoyance at double characters, so Paper Mario is my guy for the Mario series currently by default. :p
As do I, as do I. This is why I am so disappointed that Luigi isn't going to be getting a revamped move-set. I was looking forward to the Poltergust!
 

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Toon is the only viable worthy 4th Zelda rep IMO, there should be no more Zelda characters after that though.
Pretty much. Even after the main three, the fourth slot feels like filler. Don't get me wrong, I love Toon Link. And I would love the likes of Toon Zelda, Tetra, Impa, Ghirahim, etc., but it's unnecessary. Although I do hope for four Zelda slots like in Melee and Brawl.
 

Bajef8

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Toon Link is the only viable worthy 4th Zelda rep IMO, there should be no more Zelda characters after that though.
Well arguably Tetra or Vaati would still make sense as they're prominent to the Toon characters. 2 Links (Adult & Child) always makes sense to me because that is the franchise. Repped by 2 major versions of Link.

Toad's most important job is to protect the Princess eh? Well he does just that as her neutral B :troll:
 

Morbi

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Toon is the only viable worthy 4th Zelda rep IMO, there should be no more Zelda characters after that though.
What about Tingle? He is actually a pretty viable fourth rep. I don't want him or anything. I am just saying that he has been in a s*** ton of Zelda games and he has popularity to back him.

Couple things. The whole Doc thing is irrelevant for a Paper Mario argument, as pointed out by some people.

I do agree on the Waluigi statement. He's not gonna be a character. He has only appeared in Spin-offs and never even been on an actual Mario game. Or Wario game for that matter. How would you even classify him, Warioware or Mario? He wouldn't make sense under either character because He's always associated with Wario, but not a Warioware character.

Your own statement about Toad is a bit silly. There are 4 main stream character, meaning a 5th is probably the most likely. The big franchises are only repped by "main" characters from their respective series. I never even thought of him as having a chance. I always had Bowser Jr. as the next Mario addition, even Pre-Brawl. Toad isn't a majorly important character in a majorly important series while Jr. has seen a meteoric rise to becoming cemented in as one of the main villains of the franchise next to Bowser. Toad is a supporting character to the series while Jr. is becoming, if not already, one of the main characters.
We must not forget about his popularity in Japan though. In the west, Toad is just a weird character similar to Goomba or Koopa. In Japan, the dude actually stands for something.
 

YoshiandToad

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Toad is a supporting character to the series while Jr. is becoming, if not already, one of the main characters.
Errr...no.

No Jr's not.

Bowser Jr is at best the same level of importance as Toad; secondary character importance.

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are of course the primary protagonists(+ damsel and antagonist)

Yoshi and Toad are secondary protagonists in the Mario series; they aid Mario and Luigi in their quest to save Peach from Bowser.

Bowser Jr. is a secondary antagonist; his job is to support Bowser in his mission. He's more important than tertiary antagonists; like his (no longer) siblings the Koopalings, but he's very much a secondary antagonist.
 

CalumG

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Tingle. :troll:

His get-out-of-jail-free card being that he has a Rupee franchise icon instead of a Triforce. Zelda gets the three Triforce bearers, and Tingle's in there but not technically as a Zelda rep, but a Tingle one.

 

YoshiandToad

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Tingle. :troll:

His get-out-of-jail-free card being that he has a Rupee franchise icon instead of a Triforce. Zelda gets the three Triforce bearers, and Tingle's in there but not technically as a Zelda rep, but a Tingle one.

Is it bad I actually have no issue with Tingle taking Toon Link's spot for 4th Zelda rep?
 

TheLastJinjo

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Strongly disagree with this.

Not so much Paper Mario, but nearly every other fighting game I've played with multiple versions of the same character nearly always screams "filler".

Nothing against the good doctor, but I have no desire to see Dr. Mario return. Toon Link's a different case (at least for me) since technically they're different people, but I'd rather have a Zelda newcomer that isn't a Link as the 4th Zelda slot.
MOST people that complain about the concept just screams "Spoiled!" or "Whiner" or "Greed".

Couple things. The whole Doc thing is irrelevant for a Paper Mario argument, as pointed out by some people.
I do agree on the Waluigi statement. He's not gonna be a character. He has only appeared in Spin-offs and never even been on an actual Mario game. Or Wario game for that matter. How would you even classify him, Warioware or Mario? He wouldn't make sense under either character because He's always associated with Wario, but not a Warioware character.

Your own statement about Toad is a bit silly. There are 4 main stream character, meaning a 5th is probably the most likely. The big franchises are only repped by "main" characters from their respective series. I never even thought of him as having a chance. I always had Bowser Jr. as the next Mario addition, even Pre-Brawl. Toad isn't a majorly important character in a majorly important series while Jr. has seen a meteoric rise to becoming cemented in as one of the main villains of the franchise next to Bowser. Toad is a supporting character to the series while Jr. is becoming, if not already, one of the main characters.
That doesn't mean you get to pretend like the doc doesn't exist or was ever playable.
 

CalumG

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If you're not all about this little motherf*cker then you're just wrong okay
 

TheLastJinjo

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What about Tingle? He is actually a pretty viable fourth rep. I don't want him or anything. I am just saying that he has been in a s*** ton of Zelda games and he has popularity to back him.
Because Toon Link is way more important. Tingle can get in, but not if it means the disposal of Toon Link.
 

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Tingle. :troll:

His get-out-of-jail-free card being that he has a Rupee franchise icon instead of a Triforce. Zelda gets the three Triforce bearers, and Tingle's in there but not technically as a Zelda rep, but a Tingle one.

I have no problem with Tingle. In fact I'd find it hilarious if he was the next Zelda rep. Besides, I'd be too busy using Zelda/Sheik/hopefully buffed Ganondorf to care.
 

Bajef8

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Errr...no.

No Jr's not.

Bowser Jr is at best the same level of importance as Toad; secondary character importance.

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are of course the primary protagonists(+ damsel and antagonist)

Yoshi and Toad are secondary protagonists in the Mario series; they aid Mario and Luigi in their quest to save Peach from Bowser.

Bowser Jr. is a secondary antagonist; his job is to support Bowser in his mission. He's more important than tertiary antagonists; like his (no longer) siblings the Koopalings, but he's very much a secondary antagonist.
See you're a bit off here. Yoshi is a primary protagonist in Yoshi games, and he's also repping the Yoshi series, not Mario. He may be secondary in Mario games but not his own.

Jr. in on the cusp of becoming a major character in the series. No doubt, he'll never compare to the 4 mains, but ignoring the fact that he's been a CO-antagonist in almost every game since his release, including the platformers and recent Paper Mario games mind you, is quite foolish. He's a lot more significant that Toad.

MorbidAltruism has a point, we can't forget his Japanese popularity, however, I pose this question. A Japanese man in a Japanese compnay made him a meat shield in each Smash he's appeared in. He may be popular, but is he important enough to rep the series?

And also as for his Tingle statement because I'm too lazy to quote, I don't think Sakurai haphazardly adds characters to a franchise unless they're big in popularity AND important to the series as a whole.
 

CalumG

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Because Toon Link is way more important. Tingle can get in, but not if it means the disposal of Toon Link.
Give Tingle his own series icon. Problem solved, he's not 'taking' a Zelda characters spot regardless of whether Toon Link stays or not.
 

CalumG

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It's a much different case than the Mario characters.
Really? Because he's all but stopped showing up in Zelda games since he got his own spin-off series, bar a few visual cameos and remakes of older games. It's pretty much exactly the case that it was with the Mario spinoffs.
 

Bajef8

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MOST people that complain about the concept just screams "Spoiled!" or "Whiner" or "Greed".



That doesn't mean you get to pretend like the doc doesn't exist or was ever playable.
Except I didn't. I merely said that using the 6 clones from Melee, whom Sakurai said were filler because he'd prefer to add 6 new characters as opposed to 1 more unique character, is not a good argument. Saying Doc was added, thus Paper Mario or Toad makes sense, based on those 6 is not very logical.
 

Bajef8

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Nice catch. I just read and mentally filtered it to protagonist. Yoshi was evil in my games though. Little bugger would run away which inevitably killed me. :p
As did I when double-checking it haha. Speaking about Jr. then Yoshi threw me off.

I guess I've been reading Harry Potter wrong all along. Voldemort is actually a good guy just trying to become immortal, however this annoying kid Harry keeps bugging him for no reason. Explains why Voldy wants to kill the annoying ANTAGONIZING guy.
 

YoshiandToad

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See you're a bit off here. Yoshi is a primary antagonist in Yoshi games, and he's also repping the Yoshi series, not Mario. He may be secondary in Mario games but not his own.

Jr. in on the cusp of becoming a major character in the series. No doubt, he'll never compare to the 4 mains, but ignoring the fact that he's been a CO-antagonist in almost every game since his release, including the platformers and recent Paper Mario games mind you, is quite foolish. He's a lot more significant that Toad.
I think you meant protagonist for Yoshi actually.

Being a secondary character by no means diminishes their 'main'ness, a good series cannot survive without a decent supporting cast after all.

But you'd be underselling Toad if you think all those playable appearence of recent mean he's not also becoming 'main' within the Mario franchise.
 

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As did I when double-checking it haha. Speaking about Jr. then Yoshi threw me off.

I guess I've been reading Harry Potter wrong all along. Voldemort is actually a good guy just trying to become immortal, however this annoying kid Harry keeps bugging him for no reason. Explains why Voldy wants to kill the annoying ANTAGONIZING guy.
Can we just talk about Harry Potter for a while, with the new movie? Let's talk about THAT.

JK, moving on! (Or am I kidding? Not really, but the HP topic would be irrelevant)
 
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