Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[shrooby]

Aah, another GIF to add to my collection. This thread has given me such a wonderful selection of GIFs to work with.

 

[CalumG]

Rated T for Teen

Not really a counterargument, parents would still lose their crap over their 13-year old beating up photo-realistic dogs. nice try

But you still haven't disputed my argument that every single playable character in Smash Bros. is a copyright-able character owned by Nintendo, a subsidiary of Nintendo, or a third-party. Dogs are not. Dogs are just dogs. Refute this, and then you'll have a valid argument. Otherwise, just go.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Aah, another GIF to add to my collection. This thread has given me such a wonderful selection of GIFs to work with.

Nobody saw this? It's like the second highest picture on Google image search of "abandon thread".

 

[3Bismyname]

eh Dixie is just as worthy as K Rool for the spot. ideally we'd get both but if we only get one i could still very much see Dixie getting in over K Rool

 

[Hotfeet444]

eh Dixie is just as worthy as K Rool for the spot. ideally we'd get both but if we only get one i could still very much see Dixie getting in over K Rool

It isn't impossible at all, but that's not the discussion. The discussion was Dixie was the third most important character to the DK series, and I mean solely DK series, spin-offs counting for nothing. And she isn't, it's clearly K.Rool.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not really a counterargument, parents would still lose their crap over their 13-year old beating up photo-realistic dogs. nice try


But you still haven't disputed my argument that every single playable character in Smash Bros. is a copyright-able character owned by Nintendo, a subsidiary of Nintendo, or a third-party. Dogs are not. Dogs are just dogs. Refute this, and then you'll have a valid argument. Otherwise, just go.

Well according to the official websites, I see Nintendogs are trademarks of Nintendo, so Nintendo owns them.

 

[CalumG]

Well according to the official websites, I see Nintendogs are trademarks of Nintendo, so Nintendo owns them.

They own the name. Not the image. We've been through this.

 

[Curious Villager]

Can we just all agree that Boney is the best Nintendog and move on?!?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oks, let's get Shigeru's dog, and name him Nintendog since he is owned by Nintendo Is the problem solved.

 

[CalumG]

Oks, let's get Shigeru's dog, and name him Nintendog since he is owned by Nintendo Is the problem solved.

No because it's still just a dog how are you not getting this

 

[BluePikmin11]

No because it's still just a dog how are you not getting this

Well Mario is just a plumber. Wii Fit Trainer is just a fitness trainer. There's nothing wrong with Nintendog.

 

[3Bismyname]

It isn't impossible at all, but that's not the discussion. The discussion was Dixie was the third most important character to the DK series, and I mean solely DK series, spin-offs counting for nothing. And she isn't, it's clearly K.Rool.

eh thats debatable. if we're just talking about the Country and Land games then K Rools been in 7 games (including DK 64) to Dixies now 5 games so i guess u could say he's more important in some aspects. but then again Dixie is a playable protagonist in those games so the real question is whether or not a reoccuring villain should really have priority over a reoccuring hero. she's barely been in less games. u can regard her as a sidekick if u want but the fact is she's just as playable as the other characters. i also dont think u should discredit spinoffs. especially considering thats all the DK series had for like 10 odd years.

 

[CalumG]

Well Mario is just a plumber. Wii Fit Trainer is just a fitness trainer. There's nothing wrong with Nintendog.

You can tell Mario apart visually from a real-life plumber. You can tell Wii Fit Trainer apart from a real-life fitness trainer. Nintendog is not distinguishable from a real-life dog apart from it's lower-fidelity on account of being in a game. Not even slightly the same.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So do looks really have to prevent Sakurai from implemening Nintendog. (I must rest for the night now, I am tired)

 

[Hotfeet444]

eh thats debatable. if we're just talking about the Country and Land games then K Rools been in 7 games (including DK 64) to Dixies now 5 games so i guess u could say he's more important in some aspects. but then again Dixie is a playable protagonist in those games so the real question is whether or not a reoccuring villain should really have priority over a reoccuring hero. she's barely been in less games. u can regard her as a sidekick if u want but the fact is she's just as playable as the other characters. i also dont think u should discredit spinoffs. especially considering thats all the DK series had for like 10 odd years.

When I say spin-offs, I mean like Mario Kart, Mario sports, etc.

And Dixie was a main hero once, K.Rool still being the villain for her and all the kongs, not just DK and Diddy.

 

[CalumG]

So do looks really have to prevent Sakurai from implemening Nintendog. (I must rest for the night now, I am tired)

It's not just looks - it's sounds, behaviour, general activity. Every character in Smash is a character. Nintendog is a digital representation of a real-life thing, polygon for polygon. But hey who cares right, let's put in Mike Tyson too, because making real life things playable in Smash Bros. is a-okay.

Actually I wouldn't half mind Mike Tyson in Smash... but I realize it's not happening and never will.

 

[Hotfeet444]

We're STILL talking about Nintendogs? Well...time for another gif!

Well, with that, I must bid you adieu. G'night everybody.

 

[CalumG]

We're STILL talking about Nintendogs? Well...time for another gif!

Well, with that, I must bid you adieu. G'night everybody.

What can I say, some people are absolutely stubborn enough to defend the choices that make their roster 'unique'... even if they're ********, unwanted and downright impossible like Nintendog.

Somebody bring up a new topic before I'm driven to the brink of insanity.

 

[3Bismyname]

When I say spin-offs, I mean like Mario Kart, Mario sports, etc.

And Dixie was a main hero once, K.Rool still being the villain for her and all the kongs, not just DK and Diddy.

actually shes been the title hero in 2 games. Donkey Kong Country 3 and Donkey Kong Land 3. they are different games, not just ports. oh so we're including King of Swing, Donkey Konga, Diddy Kong Racing etc. well in that case she has more appearances. K Rool with 10 and Dixie with 11. so again playable reocurring character, or reocurring villain. they both are equal in my eyes

 

[PK-Omelette]

About Nintendog: he's in Smash 4 already, and HE'S STILL A FLIPPIN DOUCHE!

*wait while I get video clip*
EDIT: Curses, it was removed. Likely due to "copyright infringement" or some kinda bs like that. *sigh* At times I really don't like Youtube...

 

[CalumG]

About Nintendog: he's in Smash 4 already, and HE'S STILL A FLIPPIN DOUCHE!

*wait while I get video clip*

Yup, he's in the background of the Nintendogs stage.

inb4 'but maybe he's the clone version of Nintendog and the SNES version of Nintendog is the playable one'

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

There is a difference between unlikely and unbalanced. If every OTHER franchise has the amount of reps necessary than how is does it unbalance the roster? I COULD add a fifth Zelda rep by I don't really support the outcome of any other Zelda CHARACTERS being necessary. When I say that I don't mean the addition of fifth Zelda Character, I mean there's really nobody to choose from.

I'm perfectly capable of determining the difference between unbalanced and unlikely. Let's give Kid iCarus, a Retro series that just got introduced and happened to have a reboot, the same number of reps as Kirby, a much larger series in comparison and represented since the start. Balanced? Nope.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Yup, he's in the background of the Nintendogs stage.

inb4 'but maybe he's the clone version of Nintendog and the SNES version of Nintendog is the playable one'

He's not playable. At least not in the clip I saw him appear in. He behaves just like in Brawl, but I know it was Smash 4 because the background was of his place in Smash 4

 

[CalumG]

He's not playable. At least not in the clip I saw him appear in. He behaves just like in Brawl, but I know it was Smash 4 because the background was of his place in Smash 4

I was poking fun at Bluepikmin11 there, I'm not silly enough to think he'd be playable

Though out of curiosity, where does he appear as an assist? All I've seen of Nintendog so far is as a background asset of the Nintendog stage, but I could just be remembering things differently.

 

[PK-Omelette]

I was poking fun at Bluepikmin11 there, I'm not silly enough to think he'd be playable

Though out of curiosity, where does he appear as an assist? All I've seen of Nintendog so far is as a background asset of the Nintendog stage, but I could just be remembering things differently.

See what I mean? If it was still up I would post it.
Just curious, did anyone else see the clip? I know it was up a month ago but it's not now.

 

[AEMehr]

Hello everybody. So I posted a roster a day or two back, but uh, nobody commented about it.
...at all

So I'm not sure if it's either:
- It was overshadowed by the massive Ridley discussion
- It was a generic roster picture maker-like image (even though i literally spent 5 hours making this thing from scratch)
- You all hate me

But anyways, going over that I have another one for you all to view! (Wow amazing!)

There are several changes to this one than the one previously presented earlier this week.
Most notably:
- The removal of Toad and Tetra (with Toon Zelda)
- The Inclusion of Takamaru and Dillon
- The Roster is now 52 characters, total (Previously 53 due to Tetra / Toon Zelda)

Now I could go ahead and explain every reason for every character, but everybody knows why most of these characters are on here.

But I suppose I'll go into the specifically unique ones:

- No Cuts? Foolish AEM, cuts are inevitable!
I'm giving Sakurai the benefit of the doubt here, he doesn't want cuts and I'm going to go ahead and hope he lives up to that. But if cuts do happen, this is roughly what I think the roster was originally supposed to be like (albeit maybe Chrom over Robin for obvious reasons).

- If you have five Pokemon characters, why not five Mario characters? Or even the Legend of Zelda?
Mario still gets a new character in King K. Rool, as he is considered a Mario related character. Besides there are some people who count DK, Wario, and Yoshi as Mario characters too, which in a sense is true (For mostly Yoshi and Wario, anyways). If there was a new character, there is no doubt in my mind that it would be Toad.
LoZ doesn't need anymore characters. Tetra or Tingle would be nice though.

- Why do you have both Takamaru and Mach Rider?
I firmly believe that if we do get a retro character, it will be one of these two for sure. However, with the previous two smash games we've been getting two retro characters in each installment. Now I'm not a big fan of patterns, but with Sakurai being very favorable of bringing back older Nintendo characters into Smash, I wouldn't put it past him to continue this trend.
But why two "obvious" characters you may ask? Well with previous games, we've seen characters we never expected (Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B.) so those two being retro, we would normally expect one of the two new retro characters to be a character we didn't expect. However, I doubt that one of the retro characters will be somebody we don't expect as Wii Fit Trainer shows that Sakurai has learned from R.O.B.'s inclusion that something like this could be very disappointing further into the game. Showing off the "WTF" character immediately like that gives fans enough to be okay with the idea. So I believe that it's safe to say that we will get two characters that are a bit more obvious rather than a very obscure one.

- Why Dillon over any other Misc. Character, like Isaac?
I've had Dillon in previous rosters, but the difference here is that those previous rosters included Isaac too. I've decided Dillon over Isaac for one major reason only, variety. Now I am fully aware that Isaac is more than capable of having a fully fledged unique movest, but we also have to consider what else we're adding here.
In my roster, I'm adding Takamaru, Shulk, and Robin. That's three sword users (Robin can potentially use one, but the idea for him/her is to mostly use mage based attacks). Adding in Isaac as well would add in another sword user. Now I'm not saying swords are bad or anything, I personally love to play as Toon Link myself. But when you're adding in so many characters utilizing the same type of weapon at the same time, it sort of destroys what makes each character unique and it makes their normals very similar (style of swordplay isn't enough, they all still swing the darn thing similarly). Adding in Dillon would incorporate something else others can't do, burrowing under the ground and potentially setting up Gun Towers. Now what Sakurai does with Dillon is up to him, but Dillon's got a lot of potential to be a ground control character which is something we've only really seen with Snake, but only with hidden explosives. Dillon could have weapons actually constantly attacking people within a small range.
But then again he could make Dillon a "Rushdown" character who would focus on comboing opponents and finishing them off with a strong hit.
My point is that I'm adding Dillon mostly because of the fact that he adds more variety to the roster than Isaac does (with me adding in another 2/3 sword characters).

- Why did you add Robin if you think Chrom has a better shot?
I just don't want another sword user from the Fire Emblem franchise. I already described why I'm against more than 2 swords being added. It's just a personal preference for the most part.
I still find Chrom the most likely new character, but he's just somebody I don't want to see to take the spot.

- Fifty-two characters? AEM don't lie to me, I counted fifty-three!
No you didn't Pokemon Trainer doesn't count.

So yeah that's basically it I guess.
If you want to ask questions, critique the roster, or hurt my feelings feel free to do so.
just dont ignore me again pls







---
Also on a side note hi pizzadudemanguy (He's probably not going to see this wah).

 

[Glaciacott]

Is there a particular reason why you prefer Mach Rider over other retro characters?

I don't know, I guess I just always found his game to be pretty ... meh. Lovely music though.

 

[Lasifer]

Is there a new picture pack or update for the roster maker?

 

[AEMehr]

Is there a particular reason why you prefer Mach Rider over other retro characters?
I don't know, I guess I just always found his game to be pretty ... meh. Lovely music though.

Mach Rider has been known to be one of Sakurai's favorites (Mostly due to design though).
I've always though highly of Muddy Mole personally. Like Dillon I really think the burrowing mechanic would be something really interesting to see included in Smash.

Is there a new picture pack or update for the roster maker?

No I just spent hours making all of those.
So
Many
Hours

 

[Glaciacott]

Mach Rider has been known to be one of Sakurai's favorites (Mostly due to design though).
I've always though highly of Muddy Mole personally. Like Dillon I really think the burrowing mechanic would be something really interesting to see included in Smash.

No I just spent hours making all of those.
So
Many
Hours

Holy crap, I always imagined someone had just made an update I hadn't cared enough to research.

Is there a way we could stealborrow those designs? I love how much closer they are to the style of characters in this version of Smash, and am always insanely jealous of how pretty your roster looks.
If you don't want to share that's ok, it makes sense for you to be protective of your babies xD

Oh, and didn't know Sakurai liked Mach Rider. Hopefully he doesn't show favoritism, Mach Rider is one of those NES games that I felt were remarkably weak. Like Urban Champion.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Something I've never got is why isn't Sakurai trying to do a roster with around 50 characters total(with or without transformations)? I think someone in this thread earlier stated that he and his team weren't interested in doing DLC, but then why?

Because they need to be balanced? Isn't that what the Wii U updates would inevitably be for? Or am I just assuming there'd be balance patches anyway?

In a way it'd make more sense to make the original roster larger than if(and it's a BIG if) he did decide to release DLC from a work point of view, (albeit not from a monetary view; I know 90% of us would pay for a pack or two) as he'd still need to rebalance all the other characters alongside whatever characters got released.

Am I crazy or isn't the main point of this game to see your favourite Nintendo characters beating the living snot out of one another? Surely a larger roster ensures more worldwide satisfaction than a smaller one? Yes, it'd be more work, yes it may take a little longer, but wouldn't you prefer a larger roster yourselves either with or without potential DLC packs?

Thoughts, feelings, opinions?
(I am fully expecting to get blasted here for this.)

For the sake of a secondary subject here; what kind of packs would you have liked to have seen?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Something I've never got is why isn't Sakurai trying to do a roster with around 50 characters total(with or without transformations)? I think someone in this thread earlier stated that he and his team weren't interested in doing DLC, but then why?

Because they need to be balanced? Isn't that what the Wii U updates would inevitably be for? Or am I just assuming there'd be balance patches anyway?

In a way it'd make more sense to make the original roster larger than if(and it's a BIG if) he did decide to release DLC from a work point of view, (albeit not from a monetary view; I know 90% of us would pay for a pack or two) as he'd still need to rebalance all the other characters alongside whatever characters got released.

Am I crazy or isn't the main point of this game to see your favourite Nintendo characters beating the living snot out of one another? Surely a larger roster ensures more worldwide satisfaction than a smaller one? Yes, it'd be more work, yes it may take a little longer, but wouldn't you prefer a larger roster yourselves either with or without potential DLC packs?

Thoughts, feelings, opinions?
(I am fully expecting to get blasted here for this.)

For the sake of a secondary subject here; what kind of packs would you have liked to have seen?

Sakurai never said "no" to DLC. He just said him and his team aren't thinking of DLC at this time as they want to focus more on the full product. Unless I am mistaken, he seems receptive to possible DLC after the release. I think he was mostly referring to balance patches and such.

 

[AEMehr]

Holy crap, I always imagined someone had just made an update I hadn't cared enough to research.
Is there a way we could stealborrow those designs? I love how much closer they are to the style of characters in this version of Smash, and am always insanely jealous of how pretty your roster looks.
If you don't want to share that's ok, it makes sense for you to be protective of your babies xD

If there is enough demand, I have no problem sharing them with you guys. I'll even upload every single one myself.
Also thank you I try hard to make them look appealing.

Oh, and didn't know Sakurai liked Mach Rider. Hopefully he doesn't show favoritism, Mach Rider is one of those NES games that I felt were remarkably weak. Like Urban Champion.

I see what you mean, it wasn't one of the most exciting games out of the NES Library. I'd love him to use a bike chain like Ghost Rider, but there is nothing in Mach Rider leading to that possibility without Sakurai coming up with the idea himself (Which is doubtful sadly).

Something I've never got is why isn't Sakurai trying to do a roster with around 50 characters total(with or without transformations)?

Because remaking every character from scratch is hard. Sakurai himself says that they should limit it to only 20 characters per game because they choose to not reuse assets from previous games.

For the sake of a secondary subject here; what kind of packs would you have liked to have seen?

Probably a few that include previously removed Smash characters.
I wouldn't expect many including completely new characters. Maybe like 1 or 2

 

[Glaciacott]

I personally like his mentality on DLC. He's known for packing as much content as possible in every game he makes, so naturally he doesn't get into the idea of not adding something because "let's just add it as DLC later." It's a refreshing take compared to the likes of Marvel vs. Capcom.

I do think most, if not all, DLC content will be balance patches or patches to refine glitches and prevent hacking. And that's mostly because it'd be nice if the team got to rest after working on this game and then moves on to other things instead of adding more and more packs.

edit: and my idea for a pack would be the "Please don't hate me" pack featuring Ridley, the option to hide Pac Man from your roster, and a set of Fire Emblem costumes for your Mii.

 

[Diddy Kong]

King K.Rool is a Mario character now..?

God why did I even come back in this thread?

 

[AEMehr]

King K.Rool is a Mario character now..?

God why did I even come back in this thread?

Perhaps I could have worded it better, what I meant was that all Mario-Related characters are, in a sense, Mario characters.
Which is why when you add King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, a Yoshi Character, or a Wario character. You're still technically adding a Mario character (At least, that's how I see it anyways).

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yup, he's in the background of the Nintendogs stage.

inb4 'but maybe he's the clone version of Nintendog and the SNES version of Nintendog is the playable one'

That won't stop Toon Link either you know.

Hello everybody. So I posted a roster a day or two back, but uh, nobody commented about it.
...at all

So I'm not sure if it's either:
- It was overshadowed by the massive Ridley discussion
- It was a generic roster picture maker-like image (even though i literally spent 5 hours making this thing from scratch)
- You all hate me

But anyways, going over that I have another one for you all to view! (Wow amazing!)

There are several changes to this one than the one previously presented earlier this week.
Most notably:
- The removal of Toad and Tetra (with Toon Zelda)
- The Inclusion of Takamaru and Dillon
- The Roster is now 52 characters, total (Previously 53 due to Tetra / Toon Zelda)

Now I could go ahead and explain every reason for every character, but everybody knows why most of these characters are on here.

But I suppose I'll go into the specifically unique ones:

- No Cuts? Foolish AEM, cuts are inevitable!
I'm giving Sakurai the benefit of the doubt here, he doesn't want cuts and I'm going to go ahead and hope he lives up to that. But if cuts do happen, this is roughly what I think the roster was originally supposed to be like (albeit maybe Chrom over Robin for obvious reasons).

- If you have five Pokemon characters, why not five Mario characters? Or even the Legend of Zelda?
Mario still gets a new character in King K. Rool, as he is considered a Mario related character. Besides there are some people who count DK, Wario, and Yoshi as Mario characters too, which in a sense is true (For mostly Yoshi and Wario, anyways). If there was a new character, there is no doubt in my mind that it would be Toad.
LoZ doesn't need anymore characters. Tetra or Tingle would be nice though.

- Why do you have both Takamaru and Mach Rider?
I firmly believe that if we do get a retro character, it will be one of these two for sure. However, with the previous two smash games we've been getting two retro characters in each installment. Now I'm not a big fan of patterns, but with Sakurai being very favorable of bringing back older Nintendo characters into Smash, I wouldn't put it past him to continue this trend.
But why two "obvious" characters you may ask? Well with previous games, we've seen characters we never expected (Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B.) so those two being retro, we would normally expect one of the two new retro characters to be a character we didn't expect. However, I doubt that one of the retro characters will be somebody we don't expect as Wii Fit Trainer shows that Sakurai has learned from R.O.B.'s inclusion that something like this could be very disappointing further into the game. Showing off the "WTF" character immediately like that gives fans enough to be okay with the idea. So I believe that it's safe to say that we will get two characters that are a bit more obvious rather than a very obscure one.

- Why Dillon over any other Misc. Character, like Isaac?
I've had Dillon in previous rosters, but the difference here is that those previous rosters included Isaac too. I've decided Dillon over Isaac for one major reason only, variety. Now I am fully aware that Isaac is more than capable of having a fully fledged unique movest, but we also have to consider what else we're adding here.
In my roster, I'm adding Takamaru, Shulk, and Robin. That's three sword users (Robin can potentially use one, but the idea for him/her is to mostly use mage based attacks). Adding in Isaac as well would add in another sword user. Now I'm not saying swords are bad or anything, I personally love to play as Toon Link myself. But when you're adding in so many characters utilizing the same type of weapon at the same time, it sort of destroys what makes each character unique and it makes their normals very similar (style of swordplay isn't enough, they all still swing the darn thing similarly). Adding in Dillon would incorporate something else others can't do, burrowing under the ground and potentially setting up Gun Towers. Now what Sakurai does with Dillon is up to him, but Dillon's got a lot of potential to be a ground control character which is something we've only really seen with Snake, but only with hidden explosives. Dillon could have weapons actually constantly attacking people within a small range.
But then again he could make Dillon a "Rushdown" character who would focus on comboing opponents and finishing them off with a strong hit.
My point is that I'm adding Dillon mostly because of the fact that he adds more variety to the roster than Isaac does (with me adding in another 2/3 sword characters).

- Why did you add Robin if you think Chrom has a better shot?
I just don't want another sword user from the Fire Emblem franchise. I already described why I'm against more than 2 swords being added. It's just a personal preference for the most part.
I still find Chrom the most likely new character, but he's just somebody I don't want to see to take the spot.

- Fifty-two characters? AEM don't lie to me, I counted fifty-three!
No you didn't Pokemon Trainer doesn't count.

So yeah that's basically it I guess.
If you want to ask questions, critique the roster, or hurt my feelings feel free to do so.
just dont ignore me again pls







---
Also on a side note hi pizzadudemanguy (He's probably not going to see this wah).

The roster is so good, it's probably not gonna happen. There's bound to be more surprises.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Perhaps I could have worded it better, what I meant was that all Mario-Related characters are, in a sense, Mario characters.
Which is why when you add King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, a Yoshi Character, or a Wario character. You're still technically adding a Mario character (At least, that's how I see it anyways).

K.Rool really is no Mario character. Neither is Donkey Kong really. He just so likes to appear in Mario games, and yeah, technically they're in the same universe. But only Yoshi's Island should really count as a Mario 'subseries' seeing as Mario is still heavily featured in Yoshi's Island's story. Mario is nowhere to be seen in DKC, or WarioLand / WarioWare. I'd argue that pre- WarioWare, Wario would definitely count as a Mario subseries. Seeing as Wario actually was created as an evil Mario, and in Mario's 'own' separate series from Donkey Kong.

See, the Mario series heavily evolved after Donkey Kong, the arcade game. Donkey Kong and Mario's histories are coming from the same root, but evolved heavily from that. Mario got it's own universe first, after that it was decided that Donkey Kong could use an universe of himself with Donkey Kong Country. To be calling both from the same series, even though DK doesn't appear in main Mario titles (Yoshi does) and even calling HIS OWN UNIVERSE'S MAIN VILLAIN a Mario character isn't right at all.

The pictures are pretty though on your roster. Disagree with Robin, Sheik, no Isaac and Shulk. Otherwise, perfect roster.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So that means every Mario spin-off is a Nintendo crossover

 

[CalumG]

That won't stop Toon Link either you know.

Toon Link is a Nintendo character, I imagine they could probably make some exceptions for him